Thread: [Embedlets-developer] RE: PLC help
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From: James C. <ca...@vi...> - 2003-01-25 00:14:13
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> Any other ideas ? Pending your time frame, if you are interested in developing a java based solution I may be interested in assisting you a) To use Virtual Breadboard's openVBB framework as the (free) schematic editor of the ladder logic diagrams b) To autogenerate java code or even better - an embedlet object heirachy from the ladder logic diagrams for execution on the new (very very soon ) to be released uVM PIC Java processor c) Developing necessary java packages to support the execution of PLC style code in the com.muvium framework References www.virtualbreadboard.com www.muvium.com http://sourceforge.net/projects/embedlets/ Jump onto the embedlets list and repost this.. it is VERY similar and compatible with some of the work we are thinking about over there. Ted Kosan in particular would be interested in talking about PLC applications of the embedlets concept. I have posted this to the embedets list as a lead in.. Just some ideas ;-) Regards, James Caska > -----Original Message----- > From: pic microcontroller discussion list > [mailto:PI...@MI...]On Behalf Of Orbit Communications > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 10:56 AM > To: PI...@MI... > Subject: Re: PLC help > > > We will be developing our own GUI so that license/cost issues are > minimized. > > The function now is developing an efficient and simple strategy for > tokenising the Ladder logic statements and executing them from external > serial flash memory. > > The other option was to simply have a library of functions in the > PIC as an > "operating system" and write some pseudo-code to represent calls to these > functions with parameters. > > Does anyone know where there is information that describes the output of a > compiled ladder logic program ? > > Any other ideas ? > > Kind Regards > > David Huisman (CEO) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ORBIT COMMUNICATIONS - Wireless Solutions that Work > (Telemetry, Control, Monitoring, Security, HVAC ...) > > Website : http://www.orbitcoms.com > PO Box 4474 Lakehaven > NSW 2259, AUSTRALIA > Phone: 61-2-4393-3627 > Fax : 61-2-4393-3685 > Mobile: 61-413-715-986 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Chops Westfield" <bi...@CI...> > To: <PI...@MI...> > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 10:21 AM > Subject: Re: PLC help > > > > > I have developed a system for one of my customers which works as > follows: > > > > > > 1: Draw a ladder diagram using the schematic editor in Eagle. > > > > > > 2: Generate PARTLIST and NETLIST files from the Eagle drawing. > > > > > > 3: Parse the PARTLIST and NETLIST to 'compile' the ladder diagram into > an > > > intermediate 'P-Code' like language. > > > > That's cute. Do you have to become an Eagle "distributer", or > do you just > > insist that the customer buy a copy of at least the schematic editor? > > > > BillW > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > > |
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From: James C. <ca...@vi...> - 2003-01-25 00:24:59
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Hi all, The last post is part of a PLC - programmable Logic Controller - discussion that has been going on in the PICLIST. I have reposted it here and home that interested PICster's come across to talk with us about it further. In actual fact, it occured to me a while ago that PLC's are a natural application for the embedlet concept. Ladder logic is a standard, it is a subset of the full embedlet concept and there is already a large existing skillset in the ladder logic developers and systems. It makes alot of sense for the wiring technology we come up with to support ladder logic diagrams for generating embedlet PLC's. I would be interested for one, to create necessary support packages for the PLC execution 'runtime' but what would be better is if we could make this the one and same thing as the embedlet runtime. It might be a good place for embedlets to cut their teeth So Ted.. consider this as a second design challenge. Demonstrate how the embedlet wiring concept can be used to develop executable ladder logic diagrams. James > |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-01-25 08:05:19
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James, After reading your PLC posts I spent a significant amount of time on the net researching the current state of the PLC world. It has been a number of years since I did any serious PLC programming and it was interesting to see what new things have been developed. And... I think I hit a mother lode of information that looks like it could be very helpful to the Embedlets effort. There is an organization called PLCopen and they have developed a significant number of standards (both graphical and non-graphical) for things like ladder logic and functional block diagrams (FBDs). The FBDs have some striking similarities to what I imagine Embedlets will look like and they seem to have developed solutions to problems that I personally was struggling with. Here is a quick plcopen overview: http://www.plcopen.org/intro_iec/intro_iec.htm and here is the main site: http://www.plcopen.org I am going to start studying their materials and also join their email list. I am looking forward to 'picking their brains' and I am also interested in getting their reaction to possibly having their standards implemented in platform-independent Java. Thanks for the tip! Ted __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com |
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From: James C. <ca...@vi...> - 2003-01-26 05:55:51
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Hell of an interesting link... http://www.measureanything.com/pdf/softplc/eAutomation_Endless_Possibilities _by_Softplc.pdf James > -----Original Message----- > From: emb...@li... > [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Ted > Kosan > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 7:05 PM > To: emb...@li... > Subject: [Embedlets-developer] RE: PLC help (plcopen.org) > > > James, > > After reading your PLC posts I spent a significant amount > of time on the net researching the current state of the PLC > world. It has been a number of years since I did any > serious PLC programming and it was interesting to see what > new things have been developed. > > And... I think I hit a mother lode of information that > looks like it could be very helpful to the Embedlets > effort. > > There is an organization called PLCopen and they have > developed a significant number of standards (both graphical > and non-graphical) for things like ladder logic and > functional block diagrams (FBDs). The FBDs have some > striking similarities to what I imagine Embedlets will look > like and they seem to have developed solutions to problems > that I personally was struggling with. > > > Here is a quick plcopen overview: > > http://www.plcopen.org/intro_iec/intro_iec.htm > > > and here is the main site: > > http://www.plcopen.org > > > I am going to start studying their materials and also join > their email list. I am looking forward to 'picking their > brains' and I am also interested in getting their reaction > to possibly having their standards implemented in > platform-independent Java. > > > Thanks for the tip! > > > Ted > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: > SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! > http://www.vasoftware.com > _______________________________________________ > Embedlets-developer mailing list > Emb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer > > |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-01-26 07:08:13
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James, The paper was a great read and I also snooped around on their site a bit. It is truly good to see hard core industrial control companies taking a deep interest in Java. The SoftPLC system looks very interesting and I noticed that their Modlets were kind of like Embedlets. Ted --- James Caska <ca...@vi...> wrote: > Hell of an interesting link... > > http://www.measureanything.com/pdf/softplc/eAutomation_Endless_Possibilities > _by_Softplc.pdf > > James > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com |
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From: James C. <ca...@vi...> - 2003-01-26 07:33:45
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Tead, I think the point is that there are several 'kinda-like' embedlets things already out there. The question for us is to A) Try not to be overwhelmed by all the depth of the material out there - it is easy to feel a sense of 'information overload' with all of this B) Try to be aware but not intimidated by these 'kinda-like' techniques (I call these techniques rather than technologies) to make sure embedlets is the 'base class' of all these things C) Try get something like a reference implementation happening, and in particular see if we can find a REALLY REALLY simple XML representation to capture the thoughts. D) Look for anything that resembles transformable components of the 'kinda-like' technique (XML) ie PLC-XML ==> Embedlet Representation XML to make sure our representation supports it and to learn from it. This is why these standards are interesting because they are condensed knowledge of these things. In essense, I want to create an XML schema representation of the serialisable form of the Bean Heirachy in its minimal form and ensure as much as is possible that this form is generic enough to cover these 'kinda-like' techniques. One of the difficulties with java is that it proposes to look ahead but genericness is actually quite tricky - in this case we are going to have to make a 'best guess' and try to make it minimalistic (Complex systems come from simple rules) approach just to get the ball rolling James BTW - How is the Elevator Challenge going. It was a very tough one to hand out first up - thats why I chose it.. It is sometimes quite challenging to push from idea to implementation and all the issues without silver bullets that 'spring up' can be quite discouraging. I am keen to see your final solution. > -----Original Message----- > From: emb...@li... > [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Ted > Kosan > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 6:08 PM > To: James Caska; emb...@li... > Subject: RE: [Embedlets-developer] RE: PLC help (plcopen.org) > > > James, > > The paper was a great read and I also snooped around on > their site a bit. It is truly good to see hard core > industrial control companies taking a deep interest in > Java. The SoftPLC system looks very interesting and I > noticed that their Modlets were kind of like Embedlets. > > > Ted > > > > --- James Caska <ca...@vi...> wrote: > > Hell of an interesting link... > > > > > http://www.measureanything.com/pdf/softplc/eAutomation_Endless_Pos sibilities > _by_Softplc.pdf > > James > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com _______________________________________________ Embedlets-developer mailing list Emb...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer |
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From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-01-27 03:03:32
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James, > A) Try not to be overwhelmed by all the depth of the > material out there - it > is easy to feel a sense of 'information overload' with > all of this > B) Try to be aware but not intimidated by these > 'kinda-like' techniques (I > call these techniques rather than technologies) to make > sure embedlets is > the 'base class' of all these things When I start to feel the pressures of 'information overload' with respect to Embedlets I remind myself that any group attempting to develop an Embedlet-like technology is faced with the same difficulties. This makes me feel better ;-) As for the 'base class' idea, I think that it will turn out to be a key concept and it was one of the ideas that the Embedlet work we did back on the JStamp list also pointed to as being important. > BTW - How is the Elevator Challenge going. It was a very > tough one to hand > out first up - thats why I chose it.. It is sometimes > quite challenging to > push from idea to implementation and all the issues > without silver bullets > that 'spring up' can be quite discouraging. I am keen to > see your final > solution. It is going very well and it has turned out to be an excellent application for discovering workable solutions for a tentative Embedlet design. I have ended up scrapping a significant number of 'good' ideas over the past 3 weeks that would not work but the ideas that are left seem to be pretty solid. I do not know if anyone has noticed but all of the Embedlet related design documents that I have been developing while attempting to come up with a solution to the elevator problem are present in the CVS (so far there have been 15 commits). All the design documents are in OpenOffice 1.0's XML file formats so they can be managed by a CVS system very easily. Ted __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com |