Thread: [Embedlets-dev] Re: HDL
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From: Andrzej J. T. <an...@ch...> - 2003-02-19 20:22:17
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Bax clarifies: > One is able to describe _any_ digital hardwaredevice, including > temparature sensors and mainframe computers. You are able to use these > bricks in any other construction and combination. HDL has inputs, outputs, > events, vectors of bits, vectors of vectors etc. pp. True....but can it describe any arbitrary software component? That is where the difference lies....HDL is Hardware Description Language. We are writing a container for software components...not hardware. There is some commonality, but I think it's a stretch at best. There may be some concepts we can borrow from HDL, but I doubt the syntax will be useful as it stands. > It is _not_ a modeling language, like UML, it is a reality language. > Wiring-, Testing-, Simulation- Compilertools are parts of the language. Is it XML based? Just curious... > IMHO, if i read the docs of emblets - you are definig a second approach to > HDL. The own OutPost HDL. I do not know ... looks like this second > invention of the wheel for me. Nope....we are defining an EDL. Embedlet Description Language, which is a subclass of SDL (software description language). <grins> Different beastie altogether, since embedlets will encompass business logic at some higher level than hardware wiring does. ...Andrzej Chaeron Corporation http://www.chaeron.com |
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From: Andrzej J. T. <an...@ch...> - 2003-02-19 23:18:38
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bax doth protest with: > Differences between Hardware and Software are simply not existent. Show > me the if they exist. True, but granularity does matter....and hardware is typically a lot fine grained than software in that regard. And processor microcode is coarser than PLC's or HDL/FPGA and the like. > Software/Hardware is a marketing topic, no more no less. I think that is an oversimplification, in the real world. There are practical implications that lead one to use the tools appropriate to the level of granularity that makes sense. > One is able to move _any_ functionality from HW into SW and vice versa. Yes, but just because you can does not imply that you should. ;-) Andrzej Jan Taramina Chaeron Corporation: Enterprise System Solutions http://www.chaeron.com |
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From: Nicola K. B. <nic...@ap...> - 2003-02-19 23:45:19
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Andrzej Jan Taramina wrote, On 20/02/2003 0.18:
> Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE]
> _______________________________________________
>
> bax doth protest with:
>
>
>>Differences between Hardware and Software are simply not existent. Show
>>me the if they exist.
>
> True, but granularity does matter....and hardware is typically a lot fine
> grained than software in that regard. And processor microcode is coarser
> than PLC's or HDL/FPGA and the like.
It makes me think about the "ladder VS procedural" discussions with PLC
developers ;-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nic...@ap...
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: Holger B. <ho...@bi...> - 2003-02-20 02:18:42
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> Andrzej Jan Taramina wrote, On 20/02/2003 0.18: >> Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] >> _______________________________________________ >> bax doth protest with: >>> Differences between Hardware and Software are simply not existent. >>> Show me the if they exist. >> True, but granularity does matter....and hardware is typically a lot >> fine grained than software in that regard. And processor microcode >> is coarser than PLC's or HDL/FPGA and the like. > > It makes me think about the "ladder VS procedural" discussions with > PLC developers ;-) Yes, me too "bull vs. shit". bax > -- > Nicola Ken Barozzi nic...@ap... > - verba volant, scripta manent - > (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: SlickEdit Inc. Develop an edge. > The most comprehensive and flexible code editor you can use. > Code faster. C/C++, C#, Java, HTML, XML, many more. FREE 30-Day Trial. > www.slickedit.com/sourceforge > _______________________________________________ > Embedlets-developer mailing list > Emb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer > |
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From: Holger B. <ho...@bi...> - 2003-02-20 02:12:54
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> bax doth protest with: > >> Differences between Hardware and Software are simply not existent. >> Show >> me the if they exist. > > True, but granularity does matter....and hardware is typically a lot > fine > grained than software in that regard. And processor microcode is > coarser > than PLC's or HDL/FPGA and the like. again, > bax doth protest with: regardless of the granularity, microcode is formulated in HDL's like even a simple inverter. If you would insist, do it on the analogous side of the sensor. Then i will agree, at the moment ;-) >> Software/Hardware is a marketing topic, no more no less. > > I think that is an oversimplification, in the real world. There are > practical implications that lead one to use the tools appropriate to > the > level of granularity that makes sense. Which one? >> One is able to move _any_ functionality from HW into SW and vice >> versa. > > Yes, but just because you can does not imply that you should. ;-) But, that it is industry standard and not only the big player does it, should. It is day by day work for people developing embedded devices, PIC, 8051, ASIC, VLSI AD etc. pp. Nobody will go back and 74er TTL's to implement a logical network in hardware, so shouldn't we do in what will you call Software. bax |
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From: Holger B. <ho...@bi...> - 2003-02-19 21:16:36
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Differences between Hardware and Software are simply not existent. Show me the if they exist. Mostly the hardware today _is_ in fact Software. Not only the micrcodes, but in the process of development and construction. I am not able to construct any thing more complicated than a binkenlight without Software in it. Software/Hardware is a marketing topic, no more no less. One is able to move _any_ functionality from HW into SW and vice versa. bax PS: Have a look at Finite State Machines, regarding the parallel thread - already solved in FSM - Software _and_ Hardware. ... and fundamental part of VHDL :) > Bax clarifies: > >> One is able to describe _any_ digital hardwaredevice, including >> temparature sensors and mainframe computers. You are able to use these >> bricks in any other construction and combination. HDL has inputs, >> outputs, >> events, vectors of bits, vectors of vectors etc. pp. > > True....but can it describe any arbitrary software component? That is > where the difference > lies....HDL is Hardware Description Language. We are writing a > container for software > components...not hardware. There is some commonality, but I think > it's a stretch at best. > There may be some concepts we can borrow from HDL, but I doubt the > syntax will be useful > as it stands. > >> It is _not_ a modeling language, like UML, it is a reality language. >> Wiring-, Testing-, Simulation- Compilertools are parts of the >> language. > > Is it XML based? Just curious... > >> IMHO, if i read the docs of emblets - you are definig a second >> approach to >> HDL. The own OutPost HDL. I do not know ... looks like this second >> invention of the wheel for me. > > Nope....we are defining an EDL. Embedlet Description Language, which > is a subclass of > SDL (software description language). <grins> > > Different beastie altogether, since embedlets will encompass business > logic at some higher > level than hardware wiring does. > > ...Andrzej > > Chaeron Corporation > http://www.chaeron.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: SlickEdit Inc. Develop an edge. > The most comprehensive and flexible code editor you can use. > Code faster. C/C++, C#, Java, HTML, XML, many more. FREE 30-Day Trial. > www.slickedit.com/sourceforge > _______________________________________________ > Embedlets-developer mailing list > Emb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer > |
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