Thread: [Embedlets-developer] Re: Ant
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From: Andrzej J. T. <an...@ch...> - 2003-02-02 21:03:56
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Ted > Ant is still mostly just Java and it targets a market that consists of > millions of existing Java programmers. It takes a Java programmer much > less than a day to start using Ant because they can easily leverage their > exiting Java skills when learning how to use it. Ant has very little to do with Java (despite being written in it and having good Java build support). It has everything to do with XML. To learn to use Ant you have to be proficient in XML, not Java. It's extensible nature makes it a very powerful tool, since we could write Ant targets to handle all sorts of platform specific linking tasks (eg. JEMBuilder invocation, uVM compiling and more). Ant build files can be created to be quite flexible and automated (huge builds are controlled with Ant very successfully). I've used Ant to control many non- Java based processes. Note...I am not suggesting that Embedlet users would write the Ant build files...that would be the responsibility of the Embedlet development team. But with a bit of documentation (primarily command line and properties file options), users could easily use Ant to build embedlets and whole Outpost Container-based applications. It's like makefiles...you don't have to know how to write them to be able to use them. Andrzej Jan Taramina Chaeron Corporation: Enterprise System Solutions http://www.chaeron.com |
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From: Andrzej J. T. <an...@ch...> - 2003-02-04 00:13:41
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Gregg says: > And what build tasks are going to be so complicated? Odd jar packaging? There will be all sorts of code generation steps (very possibly using XSLT and other tools). Ant provides you with a good tool to script all of the steps into one build cycle. > Adding your own source files, you should be able to compile into a single > directory with 'javac -d' command line(s). You should be able to package > this directory into a jar, and 'go'. You should also be able to provide > this directory in your classpath to JEMBuilder like tools and get a linked > product. In the spirit of Ted's "Graphic Wiring Tool", I want a single command to build everything, and that will take more than one compile step, transform steps, code generation, packaging and maybe more. It would also include the platform-specific link step (eg. JEMBuilder). Ant can do all of that. And Ant is integrated with almost every major IDE out there...so that's not an issue. I do all my builds with Ant from within my editor these days, and it has definitely simplified my life. > It should not be necessary for developers to do any kind of manual steps > to develop with the platform. No need, since Ant is integrated with most IDE's out there. In fact, Ant is an automation tool for complex builds (and wiring Embedlets, JAPL drivers, adapters and the like into a runnable app WILL be complex). > I am really against leaning against Ant for any configuration management > that can also be done in the code itself where late binding can yield some > other advantages. Every other container-based server out there uses Ant to simplify the builds. I don't think that Outpost will be any different. Writing your own build sequencer is a bit silly, IMNSHO. You would just end up developing the same functionality that Ant already has. Andrzej Jan Taramina Chaeron Corporation: Enterprise System Solutions http://www.chaeron.com |
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From: Andrzej J. T. <an...@ch...> - 2003-02-04 02:55:23
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Gregg: > Yes, it is an automation tool. And, just like CPP is an automation tool, > ant can be abused to do configuration management because it's possible. > The postgresql dist includes the use of Ant for no reason at all. The > build process is stricktly Linux/Make based, and Ant is not necessary when > Make is already in place. True enough...but Ant is just a make replacement (albeit a more powerful and easier to use one). We won't be using makefiles on this project. Doesn't make sense. (all puns intended. ;-) ). > My IDE includes the ability to do all the things that Ant does, so I don't > need to use Ant for my projects. Running unit tests and other such tasks > is a good use for running these tests portably. Not everyone's IDE does....Ant will run on any JDK-enabled platform, and provides a common platform for builds that no IDE can. > I just want to make sure that complexity is only a necessity, > not a chain reaction. No argument there! Andrzej Jan Taramina Chaeron Corporation: Enterprise System Solutions http://www.chaeron.com |
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From: Jac K. <j.k...@th...> - 2003-02-02 21:44:37
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On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Andrzej Jan Taramina wrote: > It's like makefiles...you don't have to know how to write them to be > able to use them. But only experienced developers are able to write good ones :-) -- Jac Kersing Technical Consultant The-Box Development j.k...@th... http://www.the-box.com |
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From: Nicola K. B. <nic...@ap...> - 2003-02-02 22:51:54
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Jac Kersing wrote: > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Andrzej Jan Taramina wrote: > > >>It's like makefiles...you don't have to know how to write them to be >>able to use them. > > But only experienced developers are able to write good ones :-) Since I'm getting quite used to shameless plugs ;-P I'd suggest a look at Krysalis Centipede http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/. It's Ant on steroids, with pre-built ant snippets that are auto-downloaded and used, and are called "cents". One could make an "embedlet" cent for the common buildfile snippets and tasks needed. Having hacked quite a lot in Ant (the latest XmlProperty task came from me :-) , I can give a hand in the Ant stuff if you need, and make you have a look at Centipede. I'm really ignorant in the stuff you are discussing here, although I'm really interested. If I can help by offloading some work on non-core work like docs (Forrest et all) and build (Ant/Centipede), I'll be happy to give a hand. Cheers! :-) -- Nicola Ken Barozzi nic...@ap... - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) --------------------------------------------------------------------- |
