embedlets-developer

[Embedlets-dev] CNC machine controller -> JSIMM, TStik, Muvium (go with current event model...)

[Ted K. <tk...@ya...>]

James wrote:

> What we really need for the embedlets is a great example to drive out
> the issues. I know that Ted Kosan has begun to work on the 3-Axis Plasma
> Cutter.

And I am ready go now!


Here is the CNC Plasma Cutting machine that I have coming:

http://etwb.javadevices.org/misc/plasma1.jpg


Here are the servo drivers I am using:

http://www.geckodrive.com/item.htbml?order_id=0&item_id=G320


And here is one of the servos:

http://etwb.javadevices.org/misc/cmc-servo2.jpg


I have been keeping this project kind of quiet until I had most of the pieces
in place but I guess it is time to bring it out in the open.  During the past
month or so I have helped form a group of about 25 CAD/CAM/CNC people in order
to start designing a network-centric CIM (Computer Integrated Manufacturing)
framework which leverages Embedlets.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newcim/

The above mentioned CNC plasma cutter is going to be an Embedlets based, 100%
pure Java test-bed machine for this effort and this is what hardware the
controller is going to consist of:

1) A JSimm backplane:  http://jsimm.com

2) A TStik as the host for the Embedlet container: http://tstik.com

3) A muvium on a JSIMM card plugged into the backplane in order to
inexpensively handle the application's realtime needs:  http://muvium.com.


My current thinking on the Embedlets event issue is that we really should give
the container, as currently designed, a rigerous industrial-quality test like
this to see how well it performs. 

Beyond this, the new SLEE container appears to use almost the same model as we
currently have for Embedlets:

http://java.sun.com/products/jain/article_slee_principles.html

I think that this fact validates the approach that Andrzej pushed for and I do
not see a reason to prematurely gut the current event model before it has been
tested.


James, after thinking about the Embedlets/muvium issue for a while now, it is
my opinion that muvium's most likely initial role is to provide inexpensive
realtime capabilities to an Embedlet container as described above.  In order to
fulfill this role it does not need to host an Embedlet container, all it needs
to do is to be able to implement a JAPL interface using mostly the software
foundation you have already created.

Is there any chance I can talk you into setting aside trying to implement an
Embedlets container on muvium for right now and help me to develop a
JAPL/muvium based realtime servo motor controller that can plug into a JSIMM
backplane and talk to a TStik?

I now have almost all the parts I need to put this thing together and I also
have almost all of the next two months available to devote to this project.

I would really like to see how good of a muvium based 3+ axis servo controller
we can come up with in 2 months!


Ted

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RE: [Embedlets-dev] CNC machine controller -> JSIMM, TStik, Muvium (go with current event model...)

[James C. <ca...@vi...>]

>Is there any chance I can talk you into setting aside trying to
implement an Embedlets
>container on muvium for right now and help me to develop a JAPL/muvium
based realtime 
>servo motor controller that can plug into a JSIMM backplane and talk to
a TStik?

I agree with you that muvium is a natural contender for the real-time
JAPL extensions and this is the first place for muvium to interact with
the embedlets. I am not rushing to gut the work already done, just
examining the issues and trying to draw parallels with existing
solutions. Like you have done and I will be interested to examine
further the SLEE container and parallels with the Embedlets container.

I don't like the overheads associated with the current event model.. I
would prefer to use the system event model than create a new one. I am
not in a rush to build a container for muvium as there are many many..
Did I mention many things to implement for muvium sitting at a higher
priority on my implementation 'stack' :-)

>I would really like to see how good of a muvium based 3+ axis servo
controller we can come up with in 2 months!

Well I would really like to see how much of a muvium based 3+ axis servo
controller we can come up with in 3 weeks!

I will do some research on your resources and comment shortly

James Caska
www.muvium.com
uVM - 'Java Bred for Embedded'



-----Original Message-----
From: emb...@li...
[mailto:emb...@li...] On Behalf Of
Ted Kosan
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 8:54 AM
To: emb...@li...
Subject: [Embedlets-dev] CNC machine controller -> JSIMM, TStik, Muvium
(go with current event model...)


Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE]
_______________________________________________

James wrote:

> What we really need for the embedlets is a great example to drive out 
> the issues. I know that Ted Kosan has begun to work on the 3-Axis 
> Plasma Cutter.

And I am ready go now!


Here is the CNC Plasma Cutting machine that I have coming:

http://etwb.javadevices.org/misc/plasma1.jpg


Here are the servo drivers I am using:

http://www.geckodrive.com/item.htbml?order_id=0&item_id=G320


And here is one of the servos:

http://etwb.javadevices.org/misc/cmc-servo2.jpg


I have been keeping this project kind of quiet until I had most of the
pieces in place but I guess it is time to bring it out in the open.
During the past month or so I have helped form a group of about 25
CAD/CAM/CNC people in order to start designing a network-centric CIM
(Computer Integrated Manufacturing) framework which leverages Embedlets.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newcim/

The above mentioned CNC plasma cutter is going to be an Embedlets based,
100% pure Java test-bed machine for this effort and this is what
hardware the controller is going to consist of:

1) A JSimm backplane:  http://jsimm.com

2) A TStik as the host for the Embedlet container: http://tstik.com

3) A muvium on a JSIMM card plugged into the backplane in order to
inexpensively handle the application's realtime needs:
http://muvium.com.


My current thinking on the Embedlets event issue is that we really
should give the container, as currently designed, a rigerous
industrial-quality test like this to see how well it performs. 

Beyond this, the new SLEE container appears to use almost the same model
as we currently have for Embedlets:

http://java.sun.com/products/jain/article_slee_principles.html

I think that this fact validates the approach that Andrzej pushed for
and I do not see a reason to prematurely gut the current event model
before it has been tested.


James, after thinking about the Embedlets/muvium issue for a while now,
it is my opinion that muvium's most likely initial role is to provide
inexpensive realtime capabilities to an Embedlet container as described
above.  In order to fulfill this role it does not need to host an
Embedlet container, all it needs to do is to be able to implement a JAPL
interface using mostly the software foundation you have already created.

Is there any chance I can talk you into setting aside trying to
implement an Embedlets container on muvium for right now and help me to
develop a JAPL/muvium based realtime servo motor controller that can
plug into a JSIMM backplane and talk to a TStik?

I now have almost all the parts I need to put this thing together and I
also have almost all of the next two months available to devote to this
project.

I would really like to see how good of a muvium based 3+ axis servo
controller we can come up with in 2 months!


Ted

__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com


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RE: [Embedlets-dev] CNC machine controller -> JSIMM, TStik, Muvium (go with current event model...)

[James C. <ca...@vi...>]

Ted, Some Questions:

So looking at the controller it has direction and stepping requirments..
Simple enough to generate.

So three axis have to be controlled simultaneously to make any sense all
of which need to be sequenced from the one controller so I imagine the
muvium device sitting in JSIMM backplane will receive commands from the
embedlet and execute the commands.

Commands Like.

LineTo(X,Y,Z,T) - Move a linear distance in X,Y,Z in time T
Accelerate(dx,dy,dz,T) - Accelerate from the current position at rate
dx,dy,dz for time T

The JAPL interface would have these commands, we would have a proxy that
is instantiated in the Embedlet and the Embedlet would issue these
commands according to the current thing under construction in addition
to issuing other commands such as monitoring emergency off switches or
tool-changes and so forth.

The JAPL Proxy would send instructions to the muvium implementation over
some sort of infrastructure we create hopefully generic to transport
such commands.. The simplest is a custom protocol over uART or SPI, the
more generic sophisticated being a SLIP WebServices RMI communication
into the muvium device.

Is this the idea you have? 
?How far down the track are you with the commands you expect the muvium
servo controller to execute (if this is the technique you have in mind)
?Is there some standard you are following for generating such commands

James Caska
www.muvium.com
uVM - 'Java Bred for Embedded'



-----Original Message-----
From: emb...@li...
[mailto:emb...@li...] On Behalf Of
Ted Kosan
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 8:54 AM
To: emb...@li...
Subject: [Embedlets-dev] CNC machine controller -> JSIMM, TStik, Muvium
(go with current event model...)


Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE]
_______________________________________________

James wrote:

> What we really need for the embedlets is a great example to drive out 
> the issues. I know that Ted Kosan has begun to work on the 3-Axis 
> Plasma Cutter.

And I am ready go now!


Here is the CNC Plasma Cutting machine that I have coming:

http://etwb.javadevices.org/misc/plasma1.jpg


Here are the servo drivers I am using:

http://www.geckodrive.com/item.htbml?order_id=0&item_id=G320


And here is one of the servos:

http://etwb.javadevices.org/misc/cmc-servo2.jpg


I have been keeping this project kind of quiet until I had most of the
pieces in place but I guess it is time to bring it out in the open.
During the past month or so I have helped form a group of about 25
CAD/CAM/CNC people in order to start designing a network-centric CIM
(Computer Integrated Manufacturing) framework which leverages Embedlets.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newcim/

The above mentioned CNC plasma cutter is going to be an Embedlets based,
100% pure Java test-bed machine for this effort and this is what
hardware the controller is going to consist of:

1) A JSimm backplane:  http://jsimm.com

2) A TStik as the host for the Embedlet container: http://tstik.com

3) A muvium on a JSIMM card plugged into the backplane in order to
inexpensively handle the application's realtime needs:
http://muvium.com.


My current thinking on the Embedlets event issue is that we really
should give the container, as currently designed, a rigerous
industrial-quality test like this to see how well it performs. 

Beyond this, the new SLEE container appears to use almost the same model
as we currently have for Embedlets:

http://java.sun.com/products/jain/article_slee_principles.html

I think that this fact validates the approach that Andrzej pushed for
and I do not see a reason to prematurely gut the current event model
before it has been tested.


James, after thinking about the Embedlets/muvium issue for a while now,
it is my opinion that muvium's most likely initial role is to provide
inexpensive realtime capabilities to an Embedlet container as described
above.  In order to fulfill this role it does not need to host an
Embedlet container, all it needs to do is to be able to implement a JAPL
interface using mostly the software foundation you have already created.

Is there any chance I can talk you into setting aside trying to
implement an Embedlets container on muvium for right now and help me to
develop a JAPL/muvium based realtime servo motor controller that can
plug into a JSIMM backplane and talk to a TStik?

I now have almost all the parts I need to put this thing together and I
also have almost all of the next two months available to devote to this
project.

I would really like to see how good of a muvium based 3+ axis servo
controller we can come up with in 2 months!


Ted

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com


-------------------------------------------------------
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RE: [Embedlets-dev] CNC machine controller -> JSIMM, TStik, Muvium

[Ted K. <tk...@ya...>]

James,

> So three axis have to be controlled simultaneously to make any sense all
> of which need to be sequenced from the one controller so I imagine the
> muvium device sitting in JSIMM backplane will receive commands from the
> embedlet and execute the commands.

I would like the muvium motion controllers to be pluggable so that if one
muvium JSIMM card could handle up to 4 axis simultaneously, then if I plug in 2
muvium JSIMM cards I can control up to 8 axis and if I plug in 3 cards I can
control up to 12 axis, etc.



> Commands Like.
> 
> LineTo(X,Y,Z,T) - Move a linear distance in X,Y,Z in time T
> Accelerate(dx,dy,dz,T) - Accelerate from the current position at rate
> dx,dy,dz for time T

Yes, the commands should be similar to this and I am hoping that the CNC people
in the newcim group will be able to nail down exactly what this interface
should look like.



> The JAPL interface would have these commands, we would have a proxy that
> is instantiated in the Embedlet and the Embedlet would issue these
> commands according to the current thing under construction in addition
> to issuing other commands such as monitoring emergency off switches or
> tool-changes and so forth.

This is how I envisioned it working too.



> The JAPL Proxy would send instructions to the muvium implementation over
> some sort of infrastructure we create hopefully generic to transport
> such commands.  The simplest is a custom protocol over uART or SPI, the
> more generic sophisticated being a SLIP WebServices RMI communication
> into the muvium device.
> 
> Is this the idea you have?

Yes, this is the idea!  The JSIMM backplane also has I2C available and for some
reason SLIP over I2C keeps popping into my head but I am for going with
whatever works the best.



> ?How far down the track are you with the commands you expect the muvium
> servo controller to execute (if this is the technique you have in mind)
> ?Is there some standard you are following for generating such commands

As soon as the fundamental design gets firmed up a bit, I will ask the experts
in the newcim group what command-set makes the most sense.


Ted

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

RE: [Embedlets-dev] CNC machine controller -> JSIMM, TStik, Muvium

[James C. <ca...@vi...>]

Well seems we are on the same wavelength with this one.

>As soon as the fundamental design gets firmed up a bit, I will ask the
experts
>in the newcim group what command-set makes the most sense.

Well then you have a lot of work left to do... The task of getting from
a diagram of something to 'make' to a set of servo commands is not
exactly trivial. I wonder if there is some standard for this. Is this a
conversation for the CNC group?


James Caska
www.muvium.com
uVM - 'Java Bred for Embedded'



-----Original Message-----
From: emb...@li...
[mailto:emb...@li...] On Behalf Of
Ted Kosan
Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2003 7:15 AM
To: emb...@li...
Subject: RE: [Embedlets-dev] CNC machine controller -> JSIMM, TStik,
Muvium


Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE]
_______________________________________________

James,

> So three axis have to be controlled simultaneously to make any sense 
> all of which need to be sequenced from the one controller so I imagine

> the muvium device sitting in JSIMM backplane will receive commands 
> from the embedlet and execute the commands.

I would like the muvium motion controllers to be pluggable so that if
one muvium JSIMM card could handle up to 4 axis simultaneously, then if
I plug in 2 muvium JSIMM cards I can control up to 8 axis and if I plug
in 3 cards I can control up to 12 axis, etc.



> Commands Like.
> 
> LineTo(X,Y,Z,T) - Move a linear distance in X,Y,Z in time T
> Accelerate(dx,dy,dz,T) - Accelerate from the current position at rate 
> dx,dy,dz for time T

Yes, the commands should be similar to this and I am hoping that the CNC
people in the newcim group will be able to nail down exactly what this
interface should look like.



> The JAPL interface would have these commands, we would have a proxy 
> that is instantiated in the Embedlet and the Embedlet would issue 
> these commands according to the current thing under construction in 
> addition to issuing other commands such as monitoring emergency off 
> switches or tool-changes and so forth.

This is how I envisioned it working too.



> The JAPL Proxy would send instructions to the muvium implementation 
> over some sort of infrastructure we create hopefully generic to 
> transport such commands.  The simplest is a custom protocol over uART 
> or SPI, the more generic sophisticated being a SLIP WebServices RMI 
> communication into the muvium device.
> 
> Is this the idea you have?

Yes, this is the idea!  The JSIMM backplane also has I2C available and
for some reason SLIP over I2C keeps popping into my head but I am for
going with whatever works the best.



> ?How far down the track are you with the commands you expect the 
> muvium servo controller to execute (if this is the technique you have 
> in mind) ?Is there some standard you are following for generating such

> commands

As soon as the fundamental design gets firmed up a bit, I will ask the
experts in the newcim group what command-set makes the most sense.


Ted

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com


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