Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion

[Michael P. <mp...@ph...>]

As a NS4 user, I am quite displeased with the distain that people show for
netscape as a development tool.  I have not moved to mozilla / ns6 because it
is too IE for my likings.  Have you ever tried working out what IE is doing
at any given moment?

I for one don't think that "downloading page xxx" / "opening page xxx" is not
enough.  I want to know how much of a page has been rendered.  Not just how
much has been loaded.  I want to know how long each file is taking to
download and where the progress is.

I also like having direct access to java objects using js.  Why use an applet
if I don't need to.  It al comes down to the "if M$ didn't make it, it
shouldn't really be there" theory introduced.

I'd also like to add that standards are GOOD.  If we you don't like standards
then why are we sitting down trying to make a standard API for creating DHTML
content.  Unfortunately too many large companies see a way of distorting the
standards anough to make then proprietory.  Does nay one remember Visual
J++?  Then you may also rememeber that Microsoft were sued for "tweaking" the
security component of the java code.

If microsoft really did care about web development, they would put money into
assisting with the development of standards and not into taking them apart.

As for NS support for DHTML, all of my problems hav arisen from clitches in
JScript, not the NS implementation of JS.  May I remind you that NS was
developing JS while Bill was sitting on his behind yelling the internet will
never take off.

As for Pascal's reference to the size of NS, have you noticed how large win98
is?  That 200mb increase is mostly due to the inclusion of IE.  And as an
external program, IE still takes up 20MB before you add outlook and plugins.
NS takes up 25MB with the mail / news program and Flash / Shockwave.

I should close by puting my most important bitch about IE.  It is tied to
your windows login.  As someone who lives in a house where many people use
the one system, it is not acceptable to be expected to reconnect to our ISP
everytime someone else wants to check their mail.  we have four poeple each
using different mail account, why should we make 4 times the number of phone
calls just because M$ wants to "enhance" (pronounced: "bundle") their
software?

I should close by saying the I would like to thank MS for keeping IT
professionals like me in business.  Without them, users would never have
reach their current level of stupidity (oops, I think they call that
"user-friendliness").  It has got to the point where some of the users in
this house have to think about what they are doing when I say, show me the
contents of "xxx" directory.

I apologise for my rant, it is well past my bed time and I should get some
sleep : )

Pieter Van Waeyenberge wrote:

> I'm not very experienced webscripter,
> but in my humble opinion:
>
>  1. Why bother having a standards organization?
>  2. Isn't that what microsoft targets: embrace, enhance, extinguish (cfr.
> haloween) (not my ethics)
>
>  Since
>  - NS4x is still in the stats
>  - DYNAPI is a cross-browser dhtml lib
>  - Some web applications require dhtml
>  I think NS4 should still be supported, BUT of course im not too aware of
> how much of a pain Netscape is for dhtml ...
>
> Pieter.
>
> # -----Original Message-----
> # From: Pascal [mailto:pb...@oi...]
> # Sent: dinsdag 6 februari 2001 12:21
> # To: dyn...@li...
> # Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] Netscape 6 discussion
> #
> #
> # Just reading an article on freshmeat (thanks to
> # www.scottandrew.com) about
> # Linux problems with a good browser.. mainly targeting Mozilla.
> #
> # Then started thinking, I was a huge fan of Netscape..
> # operative word: WAS.
> # After trying out IE5 I got annoyed by Netscape's browser:
> # it's so huge.
> #
> # I then read about Mozilla, being a faster browser using the
> # super-fast gecko
> # engine (raved about by many sites and magazines). But when
> # the first few
> # milestones rolled out I was very dissapointed. Now NS6 is out
> # and a few new
> # milestones have been released, but it's still one big
> # application that I
> # don't need.
> #
> # How many of you out there are using Mozilla, and why? Is it
> # just because you
> # "hate" Microsoft? or is there really something I'm missing. Also for
> # professional webdesigners out there, are you targeting ALL
> # browsers, or just
> # ignoring the Netscape "things" ?
> #
> # Another question (full of them today :-) is that everyone
> # wants standards..
> # so why rave about Mozilla supporting the W3C standards perfectly? If
> # Netscape stops, it means that Internet Explorer (win32) is
> # the standard
> # (almost there already I think) Sure, again Microsoft will be
> # controlling
> # things, but once IE is the standard, a smart company like
> # Opera can easily
> # move into that area, making there browser 100% IE compatible,
> # and work from
> # there.  We now have 2 very distinct Netscape browsers and
> # Internet Explorer
> # and MS will not support other peoples standards..it's not the
> # way they work.
> #
> # Leading to my real question: should DynAPI keep supporting "old" 4.x
> # browsers? is there any need for it?
> #
> # Pascal Bestebroer (pb...@oi...)
> # Software ontwikkelaar
> # Oberon Informatiesystemen b.v.
> # http://www.oibv.com
> #
> #
> # _______________________________________________
> # Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> # Dyn...@li...
> # http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> #
>
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--
Michael Pemberton
mp...@ph...
ICQ: 12107010