dynapi-dev

[Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width

[Michael P. <mp...@ph...>]

There has been some discussion on manually altering the document.height
and document.width values to force scrollbars to make all content
visible.  Is it worth looking at making these automatic in the addChild
method?

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width

[Jordi - I. - M. <jmi...@or...>]

We would never make it into a perfect solution because NS only allows to
set this values once. Further layer modifications would not cause the
scrollbars to change.

Michael Pemberton wrote:

> There has been some discussion on manually altering the document.height
> and document.width values to force scrollbars to make all content
> visible.  Is it worth looking at making these automatic in the addChild
> method?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width

[Michael P. <mp...@ph...>]

is it not possible to make these alterations everytime a layer is added to
the document.  I have been able to make this work in my own code.  If by
"once", you mean that you can only use the document.width value to increase
the size, then that's better than not at all.

If something is semi-compatible, isn't that better than not at all?

Jordi - IlMaestro - Ministral wrote:

> We would never make it into a perfect solution because NS only allows to
> set this values once. Further layer modifications would not cause the
> scrollbars to change.
>
> Michael Pemberton wrote:
>
> > There has been some discussion on manually altering the document.height
> > and document.width values to force scrollbars to make all content
> > visible.  Is it worth looking at making these automatic in the addChild
> > method?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width

[Jordi - I. - M. <jmi...@or...>]

Sure. I meant that since this can only be altered once, it is not possible to
modify the document's addChild method so it adjusts the scrollbars to the new
content's size.

Of course this is still good. Maybe we could start a section / dynapi directory
where we could mantain these DHTML related, useful tricks.

Michael Pemberton wrote:

> is it not possible to make these alterations everytime a layer is added to
> the document.  I have been able to make this work in my own code.  If by
> "once", you mean that you can only use the document.width value to increase
> the size, then that's better than not at all.
>
> If something is semi-compatible, isn't that better than not at all?
>
> Jordi - IlMaestro - Ministral wrote:
>
> > We would never make it into a perfect solution because NS only allows to
> > set this values once. Further layer modifications would not cause the
> > scrollbars to change.
> >
> > Michael Pemberton wrote:
> >
> > > There has been some discussion on manually altering the document.height
> > > and document.width values to force scrollbars to make all content
> > > visible.  Is it worth looking at making these automatic in the addChild
> > > method?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > > Dyn...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width

[Michael P. <mp...@ph...>]

what I said whas that it is possible to INCREASE the document size as many times as
you want.  it is only decreasing the size that is not possible. this is NEVER
possible.

Jordi - IlMaestro - Ministral wrote:

> Sure. I meant that since this can only be altered once, it is not possible to
> modify the document's addChild method so it adjusts the scrollbars to the new
> content's size.
>
> Of course this is still good. Maybe we could start a section / dynapi directory
> where we could mantain these DHTML related, useful tricks.
>
> Michael Pemberton wrote:
>
> > is it not possible to make these alterations everytime a layer is added to
> > the document.  I have been able to make this work in my own code.  If by
> > "once", you mean that you can only use the document.width value to increase
> > the size, then that's better than not at all.
> >
> > If something is semi-compatible, isn't that better than not at all?
> >
> > Jordi - IlMaestro - Ministral wrote:
> >
> > > We would never make it into a perfect solution because NS only allows to
> > > set this values once. Further layer modifications would not cause the
> > > scrollbars to change.
> > >
> > > Michael Pemberton wrote:
> > >
> > > > There has been some discussion on manually altering the document.height
> > > > and document.width values to force scrollbars to make all content
> > > > visible.  Is it worth looking at making these automatic in the addChild
> > > > method?
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > > > Dyn...@li...
> > > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > > Dyn...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

--
Michael Pemberton
mp...@ph...
ICQ: 12107010

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width

[Jordi - I. - M. <jmi...@or...>]

Yep that's new. So can increase as many times as you want. That's good news :)

Michael Pemberton wrote:

> what I said whas that it is possible to INCREASE the document size as many times as
> you want.  it is only decreasing the size that is not possible. this is NEVER
> possible.
>
> Jordi - IlMaestro - Ministral wrote:
>
> > Sure. I meant that since this can only be altered once, it is not possible to
> > modify the document's addChild method so it adjusts the scrollbars to the new
> > content's size.
> >
> > Of course this is still good. Maybe we could start a section / dynapi directory
> > where we could mantain these DHTML related, useful tricks.
> >
> > Michael Pemberton wrote:
> >
> > > is it not possible to make these alterations everytime a layer is added to
> > > the document.  I have been able to make this work in my own code.  If by
> > > "once", you mean that you can only use the document.width value to increase
> > > the size, then that's better than not at all.
> > >
> > > If something is semi-compatible, isn't that better than not at all?
> > >
> > > Jordi - IlMaestro - Ministral wrote:
> > >
> > > > We would never make it into a perfect solution because NS only allows to
> > > > set this values once. Further layer modifications would not cause the
> > > > scrollbars to change.
> > > >
> > > > Michael Pemberton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > There has been some discussion on manually altering the document.height
> > > > > and document.width values to force scrollbars to make all content
> > > > > visible.  Is it worth looking at making these automatic in the addChild
> > > > > method?
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > > > > Dyn...@li...
> > > > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > > > Dyn...@li...
> > > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > > Dyn...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>
> --
> Michael Pemberton
> mp...@ph...
> ICQ: 12107010
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

[Dynapi-Dev] Jordi Ilmaestro

[Raymond S. <dst...@or...>]

Jordi,

Not all that long ago you "gulped" when discussing the event model for the
DynAPI.  Most recently you made it "my war" and made tremendous contribution
to debugging the most recent (prerelease) event model.

The question is...

How did you so effectively and quickly go from "pensive to grand master"
related to events?

I'm interested in focusing more intensely into the events area of the
DynAPI.  Suggestions appreciated as to your sources of wisdom.

Thanks,

Ray

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Jordi Ilmaestro

[Jordi - I. - M. <jmi...@or...>]

I started with DynAPI1, say, two years ago, and got used to crossbrowser issues.
I was there in the very beggining of DynAPI2  and I've participated in almost
all discussions since that day. Normally my involvement in any issue being
discussed depends on the amount of free time I have in that particular moment
and, whereas sometimes It seems I've got nothing to say, I've always been up to
date with the project.

There's no really wisdom source here. All event knowledge is achieved throught
the study of the existing code. Once you know what's in the books ( Nestcape's
events go from window to target, IE's bubble up, DOM goes back and forth ) and
manage to find a half-decent reference, then it is no longer a DHTML issue but a
software engineering issue.

Want to know how do events work in NS6 ? Create an example, pick up your
browser, place several alerts around the code and start loosing lots of hours
trying to understand "why e.target is null when I move the mouse out of this
layer". No magical recipes. I did not sell my soul to Satan.

Last week I had to teach another employee about something DHTML related. I had a
lot of trouble trying to put together all my knowledge in order to make it look
logical. I guess the years, the battles, somehow leave a lot of knowledge hidden
in your brain. You don't know it's there but it pops out when you're in trouble.
90% of my value comes from my experience. If you could see the scars ...


Cya

www.cantir.com/dynapi

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Jordi Ilmaestro

[Raymond S. <dst...@or...>]

So what your saying, at least metaphorically...,

is that if your rip your programmers shirt off you look a little bit like
Rambo (capable of human interaction) covered with massive progammatic
problem solving scar tissue?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jordi - IlMaestro - Ministral" <jmi...@or...>
To: <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Jordi Ilmaestro


> I started with DynAPI1, say, two years ago, and got used to crossbrowser
issues.
> I was there in the very beggining of DynAPI2  and I've participated in
almost
> all discussions since that day. Normally my involvement in any issue being
> discussed depends on the amount of free time I have in that particular
moment
> and, whereas sometimes It seems I've got nothing to say, I've always been
up to
> date with the project.
>
> There's no really wisdom source here. All event knowledge is achieved
throught
> the study of the existing code. Once you know what's in the books (
Nestcape's
> events go from window to target, IE's bubble up, DOM goes back and forth )
and
> manage to find a half-decent reference, then it is no longer a DHTML issue
but a
> software engineering issue.
>
> Want to know how do events work in NS6 ? Create an example, pick up your
> browser, place several alerts around the code and start loosing lots of
hours
> trying to understand "why e.target is null when I move the mouse out of
this
> layer". No magical recipes. I did not sell my soul to Satan.
>
> Last week I had to teach another employee about something DHTML related. I
had a
> lot of trouble trying to put together all my knowledge in order to make it
look
> logical. I guess the years, the battles, somehow leave a lot of knowledge
hidden
> in your brain. You don't know it's there but it pops out when you're in
trouble.
> 90% of my value comes from my experience. If you could see the scars ...
>
>
> Cya
>
> www.cantir.com/dynapi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>

[Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Raymond S. <dst...@or...>]

Associates,

I've been doing alot of research in what direction I would like to go next;
in conjunction with the DynAPI.  While the API is wonderous for creating
dynamic interfaces it needs a server-side partner in my mind to reach its
full potential.

Comparing ASP, JSP and PHP I've decided that LAMP (Linux, Apache, mySQL and
PHP) tends to result in more robust client/server applications.  With PHP
Zend boosted beating both in speed and performance and PHP appears to have
allot of energy surronding it at this time.

So, from that aspect, PHP wins.  Also there appears to be a very sizable
family of "real" PHP initiatives on Source Forge to draw and learn from.

But,...

From my readings it's also apparent that JAVA is "king and master" of the
Server Side Application if the JVM and runtime code is compiled properly.
But, checking Source Forge for Java related projects creates a large list of
mostly abstract and esoteric projects: not alot of meat on the bones from a
"get things done" standpoint.

Question is, what do you mavens of logical mayhem recommend as my next area
of focus.  I am interested in developing some server-side applications that
meld into the DynAPI interface on the client-side (yes, Pascal... be
amazied).

Java or PHP?

Will learning PHP now be advantageous or detrimental to learning JAVA/JINI
later?
How does OOP in PHP compare to JAVA OOP?  I realize it lacks interfaces and
solid abstraction.
Why are most the PHP initiatives on Source Forge solid and down to earth
while JAVA tends to be lofty and not very "real world" in nature?

Looking for a little feedback here.

Thanks,

Ray "fear the rock" Smith

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Richard B. <ma...@ri...>]

I think you are right on the LAMP theory (just don't start throwing it :O)
I like the open source technology,
The price (free)
the ease of implementation (php/mySql)
I think Perl belongs in the list too (PLAMP??)

Cheers,
Richard Bennett

ma...@ri...
www.richardinfo.com
(Everything running on, and ported to the 19/12/2000 snapshot of DynAPI2)
Find the DynAPI faq here:
http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=656&group_id=5757
Browse the mailinglist here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/index.php3?hunt=dynapi



----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Smith" <dst...@or...>
To: <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 1:29 AM
Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!


> Associates,
>
> I've been doing alot of research in what direction I would like to go
next;
> in conjunction with the DynAPI.  While the API is wonderous for creating
> dynamic interfaces it needs a server-side partner in my mind to reach its
> full potential.
>
> Comparing ASP, JSP and PHP I've decided that LAMP (Linux, Apache, mySQL
and
> PHP) tends to result in more robust client/server applications.  With PHP
> Zend boosted beating both in speed and performance and PHP appears to have
> allot of energy surronding it at this time.
>
> So, from that aspect, PHP wins.  Also there appears to be a very sizable
> family of "real" PHP initiatives on Source Forge to draw and learn from.
>
> But,...
>
> >From my readings it's also apparent that JAVA is "king and master" of the
> Server Side Application if the JVM and runtime code is compiled properly.
> But, checking Source Forge for Java related projects creates a large list
of
> mostly abstract and esoteric projects: not alot of meat on the bones from
a
> "get things done" standpoint.
>
> Question is, what do you mavens of logical mayhem recommend as my next
area
> of focus.  I am interested in developing some server-side applications
that
> meld into the DynAPI interface on the client-side (yes, Pascal... be
> amazied).
>
> Java or PHP?
>
> Will learning PHP now be advantageous or detrimental to learning JAVA/JINI
> later?
> How does OOP in PHP compare to JAVA OOP?  I realize it lacks interfaces
and
> solid abstraction.
> Why are most the PHP initiatives on Source Forge solid and down to earth
> while JAVA tends to be lofty and not very "real world" in nature?
>
> Looking for a little feedback here.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray "fear the rock" Smith
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get your free domain name and domain-based e-mail from
> Namezero.com. New!  Namezero Plus domains now available.
> Find out more at: http://www.namezero.com
>

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Krzysztof K. <kac...@al...>]

Myself I found php (as scripting language) difficult for bigger projects.
There is no good method for packages handling...
I was also told that Servlets in Java + JDBC with permanent connection to a=
 database
is much faster. As a programmer I am a fan of Java and OOP so my 
choice would be clear.

Krzysztof

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Vadim P. <luc...@mt...>]

Wednesday 14 February 2001 00:29, ?? ????????:
|   Associates,
|
|   I've been doing alot of research in what direction I would like to go
| next; in conjunction with the DynAPI.  While the API is wonderous for
| creating dynamic interfaces it needs a server-side partner in my mind to
| reach its full potential.
|
|   Comparing ASP, JSP and PHP I've decided that LAMP (Linux, Apache, mySQL
| and PHP) tends to result in more robust client/server applications.  With
| PHP Zend boosted beating both in speed and performance and PHP appears to
| have allot of energy surronding it at this time.
|

Try Python. It will swallow you.

Google.com is working on Python.
-- 

Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
http://kde2.newmail.ru/index_rus.html  (Russian)
Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it!
http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Richard E. <emb...@co...>]

I've written hundreds of thousands of lines of java code, both gui and just
recently server -
so I am very biased.

If you are only going to be using Java, then use apache's jakarta-tomcat, there
is no
need for an apache server front end.

Should one write servlets or use JSP? If you write servlets you will quickly
need some type
of page templating engine at which point you might as well take the learning
curve hit and
start using JSP writing your own taglibs. There are also places on the web
hosting
third party tablibs and Sun (realizing that there ought to be a core set of
tablib extension)
has an effort to create a standard base set of tablib extensions.

OS? Now that Sun releases java on linux at about the same time as it does for
solaris,
there is no reason not to use linux rather than solaris.

Databases? I thought that mySQL had only very simple transactions. If that is
so and you have
something more complex than a simple read-only server application you will need
real
transaction support in the database.  I've used Oracle and Sybase recently. I
am looking into
PostgreSQL (the price is right). Look at
http://industry.java.sun.com/products/jdbc/drivers
for a list of what databases have a jdbc driver.

Need middle-ware? There are application servers (see below). You can write your
own
using, say, JavaGroups (http://sourceforge.net/projects/JavaGroups) - process
groups in
Java - very cool.  If each of your servers have some sort of "sessions" with
clients (the
client after connection returns to the same server) and the servers cache data
and the
cached data can become out-of-date based upon the independent actions of other
clients (this is the problem I have), then you have to have some sort of
middle-ware
that allows cached data to be marked as dirty.

Some off the shelf  java application servers:

http://www.protomatter.com
http://www.locomotive.org
http://www.enhydra.org
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/tools/jw-tools-appserver.html
http://www.evidian.com/jonas
http://www.jboss.org
http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/packages/dods/home

Richard Emberson

steal the best, code the rest -
by which I mean, first stand on the shoulders of others and
only then start looking around

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Ryan A. <ra...@am...>]

Well, I'm a PHP guy.  So, I'm biased.  Actually, I know a smidgeon of Java
too.  However, I'm still primarily weighted in PHP as far as past
projects.

One reason you will probably be drawn to PHP if you give then both a
thorough runthrough is because of it's ease of integration and
wide-use.  By wide-use I mean operating on many plateforms and different
environments.  (* This comes in really handy when working with clients
machines, etc. *)

PHP has many great DB Abstraction classes implemented already.  I'm am
currently using the PEAR DB.php implementation.  It's not perfect, but as
close as I've seen.  I'm currently designing a site that uses PHP and
DynAPI2.  However, there is no real client-to-server interaction.  I am
just using PHP to dynamically build the pages, and then DynAPI for the
user interface.

I would be very interested in seeing your results in this endevor (sp?).

Ryan

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Raymond Smith wrote:

> Associates,
> 
> I've been doing alot of research in what direction I would like to go next;
> in conjunction with the DynAPI.  While the API is wonderous for creating
> dynamic interfaces it needs a server-side partner in my mind to reach its
> full potential.
> 
> Comparing ASP, JSP and PHP I've decided that LAMP (Linux, Apache, mySQL and
> PHP) tends to result in more robust client/server applications.  With PHP
> Zend boosted beating both in speed and performance and PHP appears to have
> allot of energy surronding it at this time.
> 
> So, from that aspect, PHP wins.  Also there appears to be a very sizable
> family of "real" PHP initiatives on Source Forge to draw and learn from.
> 
> But,...
> 
> >From my readings it's also apparent that JAVA is "king and master" of the
> Server Side Application if the JVM and runtime code is compiled properly.
> But, checking Source Forge for Java related projects creates a large list of
> mostly abstract and esoteric projects: not alot of meat on the bones from a
> "get things done" standpoint.
> 
> Question is, what do you mavens of logical mayhem recommend as my next area
> of focus.  I am interested in developing some server-side applications that
> meld into the DynAPI interface on the client-side (yes, Pascal... be
> amazied).
> 
> Java or PHP?
> 
> Will learning PHP now be advantageous or detrimental to learning JAVA/JINI
> later?
> How does OOP in PHP compare to JAVA OOP?  I realize it lacks interfaces and
> solid abstraction.
> Why are most the PHP initiatives on Source Forge solid and down to earth
> while JAVA tends to be lofty and not very "real world" in nature?
> 
> Looking for a little feedback here.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ray "fear the rock" Smith
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Doug M. <do...@cr...>]

What about those who don't use unix?
How about a perl based DynServer component?
We could implement Server-side File i/o, as well as a Perl based Database..
To name a couple of things
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Smith" <dst...@or...>
To: <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:29 PM
Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!


> Associates,
>
> I've been doing alot of research in what direction I would like to go
next;
> in conjunction with the DynAPI.  While the API is wonderous for creating
> dynamic interfaces it needs a server-side partner in my mind to reach its
> full potential.
>
> Comparing ASP, JSP and PHP I've decided that LAMP (Linux, Apache, mySQL
and
> PHP) tends to result in more robust client/server applications.  With PHP
> Zend boosted beating both in speed and performance and PHP appears to have
> allot of energy surronding it at this time.
>
> So, from that aspect, PHP wins.  Also there appears to be a very sizable
> family of "real" PHP initiatives on Source Forge to draw and learn from.
>
> But,...
>
> From my readings it's also apparent that JAVA is "king and master" of the
> Server Side Application if the JVM and runtime code is compiled properly.
> But, checking Source Forge for Java related projects creates a large list
of
> mostly abstract and esoteric projects: not alot of meat on the bones from
a
> "get things done" standpoint.
>
> Question is, what do you mavens of logical mayhem recommend as my next
area
> of focus.  I am interested in developing some server-side applications
that
> meld into the DynAPI interface on the client-side (yes, Pascal... be
> amazied).
>
> Java or PHP?
>
> Will learning PHP now be advantageous or detrimental to learning JAVA/JINI
> later?
> How does OOP in PHP compare to JAVA OOP?  I realize it lacks interfaces
and
> solid abstraction.
> Why are most the PHP initiatives on Source Forge solid and down to earth
> while JAVA tends to be lofty and not very "real world" in nature?
>
> Looking for a little feedback here.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray "fear the rock" Smith
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev


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Re[2]: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Robert R. <rra...@ya...>]

We should come up with some specification for the component, including
the methods and properties.  Then, it could be created for different
environments, but work essentially the same.  That way, people could
help work on the specific language that they know the best.

-- 
// Robert Rainwater

On 2/14/2001, 2:09:52 PM EST, Doug wrote about "[Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!":

> What about those who don't use unix?
> How about a perl based DynServer component?
> We could implement Server-side File i/o, as well as a Perl based Database..
> To name a couple of things
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Smith" <dst...@or...>
> To: <dyn...@li...>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:29 PM
> Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!


>> Associates,
>>
>> I've been doing alot of research in what direction I would like to go
> next;
>> in conjunction with the DynAPI.  While the API is wonderous for creating
>> dynamic interfaces it needs a server-side partner in my mind to reach its
>> full potential.
>>
>> Comparing ASP, JSP and PHP I've decided that LAMP (Linux, Apache, mySQL
> and
>> PHP) tends to result in more robust client/server applications.  With PHP
>> Zend boosted beating both in speed and performance and PHP appears to have
>> allot of energy surronding it at this time.
>>
>> So, from that aspect, PHP wins.  Also there appears to be a very sizable
>> family of "real" PHP initiatives on Source Forge to draw and learn from.
>>
>> But,...
>>
>> From my readings it's also apparent that JAVA is "king and master" of the
>> Server Side Application if the JVM and runtime code is compiled properly.
>> But, checking Source Forge for Java related projects creates a large list
> of
>> mostly abstract and esoteric projects: not alot of meat on the bones from
> a
>> "get things done" standpoint.
>>
>> Question is, what do you mavens of logical mayhem recommend as my next
> area
>> of focus.  I am interested in developing some server-side applications
> that
>> meld into the DynAPI interface on the client-side (yes, Pascal... be
>> amazied).
>>
>> Java or PHP?
>>
>> Will learning PHP now be advantageous or detrimental to learning JAVA/JINI
>> later?
>> How does OOP in PHP compare to JAVA OOP?  I realize it lacks interfaces
> and
>> solid abstraction.
>> Why are most the PHP initiatives on Source Forge solid and down to earth
>> while JAVA tends to be lofty and not very "real world" in nature?
>>
>> Looking for a little feedback here.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ray "fear the rock" Smith
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
>> Dyn...@li...
>> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev


> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG Free Edition
> http://www.grisoft.com/html/us_index.cfm
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.231 / Virus Database: 112 - Release Date: 2/12/01


> _______________________________________________
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> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev 


----------------------
DynAPI Snapshots: http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/snapshot/
DynAPI Homepage: http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/

Re: Re[2]: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Raymond S. <dst...@or...>]

Lots of feedback, it seems almost an even split between PHP and JAVA as a
webapp backend.

I'm basically building the following test platform.

Linux/Apache Server

PHP4
The following is an interesting Open Source group since they are focused on
developing PHP widgets, which may potentially meld very well with JS widgets
built with the DynAPI.  Gonna at least play with it and see what I come up
with.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpwidgets/

JAVA
looking into locomotive.org JAVA app engine. http://www.locomotive.org/
Sources contributed by Richard Emberson.
I like this one the best since they are leaning to embrass PHP as it is and
it doesn't try to kill the entire webapp flock with a single "rock" like
enhydra appears too.

This way I can play around with both and see which ones feels more, well...
"throwable" to me.

Ray

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Rainwater" <rra...@ya...>
To: "DynAPI Development List" <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 12:25 PM
Subject: Re[2]: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!


>
> We should come up with some specification for the component, including
> the methods and properties.  Then, it could be created for different
> environments, but work essentially the same.  That way, people could
> help work on the specific language that they know the best.
>
> --
> // Robert Rainwater
>
> On 2/14/2001, 2:09:52 PM EST, Doug wrote about "[Dynapi-Dev] serious, ...
really!":
>
> > What about those who don't use unix?
> > How about a perl based DynServer component?
> > We could implement Server-side File i/o, as well as a Perl based
Database..
> > To name a couple of things
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Raymond Smith" <dst...@or...>
> > To: <dyn...@li...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:29 PM
> > Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!
>
>
> >> Associates,
> >>
> >> I've been doing alot of research in what direction I would like to go
> > next;
> >> in conjunction with the DynAPI.  While the API is wonderous for
creating
> >> dynamic interfaces it needs a server-side partner in my mind to reach
its
> >> full potential.
> >>
> >> Comparing ASP, JSP and PHP I've decided that LAMP (Linux, Apache, mySQL
> > and
> >> PHP) tends to result in more robust client/server applications.  With
PHP
> >> Zend boosted beating both in speed and performance and PHP appears to
have
> >> allot of energy surronding it at this time.
> >>
> >> So, from that aspect, PHP wins.  Also there appears to be a very
sizable
> >> family of "real" PHP initiatives on Source Forge to draw and learn
from.
> >>
> >> But,...
> >>
> >> From my readings it's also apparent that JAVA is "king and master" of
the
> >> Server Side Application if the JVM and runtime code is compiled
properly.
> >> But, checking Source Forge for Java related projects creates a large
list
> > of
> >> mostly abstract and esoteric projects: not alot of meat on the bones
from
> > a
> >> "get things done" standpoint.
> >>
> >> Question is, what do you mavens of logical mayhem recommend as my next
> > area
> >> of focus.  I am interested in developing some server-side applications
> > that
> >> meld into the DynAPI interface on the client-side (yes, Pascal... be
> >> amazied).
> >>
> >> Java or PHP?
> >>
> >> Will learning PHP now be advantageous or detrimental to learning
JAVA/JINI
> >> later?
> >> How does OOP in PHP compare to JAVA OOP?  I realize it lacks interfaces
> > and
> >> solid abstraction.
> >> Why are most the PHP initiatives on Source Forge solid and down to
earth
> >> while JAVA tends to be lofty and not very "real world" in nature?
> >>
> >> Looking for a little feedback here.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Ray "fear the rock" Smith
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> >> Dyn...@li...
> >> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>
>
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG Free Edition
> > http://www.grisoft.com/html/us_index.cfm
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.231 / Virus Database: 112 - Release Date: 2/12/01
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>
>
> ----------------------
> DynAPI Snapshots: http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/snapshot/
> DynAPI Homepage: http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>

Re: Re[2]: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Henrik V. <hv...@ya...>]

I have done some work aimed at just that with my =
work-in-progress-but-stalled serverTasks fileI/O widget. Here's my dev =
ref spec if anybody want to pick up on it for server-side languages =
besides ASP, which unfortunatly is the only one I'm profident enough in:

input
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
querystring from a form with get method or manipulating the URI with =
javascript:=20

file  - the file path + name=20
task  - values: open|save|del
content  - text to be saved (not required for open or del,so the script  =

   shouldn't bug out if this one isn't provided)

output
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
javascript syntax variables new values as pure text without any =
surrounding script tag:

this.file  - just to reassure it's the right file being handled=20
this.task  - the current set task (which will be default til new is set) =

this.scriptname  - returns the scriptname just to make sure
this.serverResponse - returns "opened","saved" or "deleted" if =
successful or else custom error message
this.tasktime  - nice feature if you want to inform your users how long =
they waited ;)
this.content  - holds the last saved content until the variable value is =
changed (escape encoded)


script-run
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
the script should run this:

1. recieve the input (if applicable set to local values)
2. read from file opendir and compare if any line match the path ( =
ievalue of file input value excluding the filename - the part before =
last /). If it match any one line the script should continue towards =
running the task, and if not just end and return new output =
this.serverResponse=3D'no access'.
3. check that the file exists. If it doesn't, task save should create a =
new file, while open and del just return =
serverResponse=3D'non-existing'.
4. run the task defined in input variable task. task save should return =
'saved' if successful, task open return 'opened' & task del 'deleted'.
5 output javascript syntax as pure text, the content value should be =
escape encoded as to not mess upp the browser client view =20


I'm not yet sure how the javascript would have to be output to work =
correctly in the loadpanel of the serverTask fileI/O widget, but it =
should be able to get the same output from whatever server-side language =
using the standard model above, and even a client-side script might =
interface it as complement when.

I already got it partly working as expected with the ASP variant, all i =
need is some ideas as to how to get the javascript properly refered back =
to the widget in which the hidden loadpanel holds the ASP script output. =
And of course if someone would take on the task of scripting a =
corresponding server-side variant of that interface as described above. =
Then maybe it could be taken further to a dbI/O servertasks widget later =
on...

You're free to ask or comment ahead, all responses are apprieated :)

Henrik V=E5glin [ hv...@ya... ]

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Robert Rainwater" <rra...@ya...>
To: "DynAPI Development List" <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:25 PM
Subject: Re[2]: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!


>=20
> We should come up with some specification for the component, including
> the methods and properties.  Then, it could be created for different
> environments, but work essentially the same.  That way, people could
> help work on the specific language that they know the best.
>=20
> --=20
> // Robert Rainwater
>=20
> On 2/14/2001, 2:09:52 PM EST, Doug wrote about "[Dynapi-Dev] serious, =
... really!":
>=20
> > What about those who don't use unix?
> > How about a perl based DynServer component?
> > We could implement Server-side File i/o, as well as a Perl based =
Database..
> > To name a couple of things
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Raymond Smith" <dst...@or...>
> > To: <dyn...@li...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:29 PM
> > Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!
>=20
>=20
> >> Associates,
> >>
> >> I've been doing alot of research in what direction I would like to =
go
> > next;
> >> in conjunction with the DynAPI.  While the API is wonderous for =
creating
> >> dynamic interfaces it needs a server-side partner in my mind to =
reach its
> >> full potential.
> >>
> >> Comparing ASP, JSP and PHP I've decided that LAMP (Linux, Apache, =
mySQL
> > and
> >> PHP) tends to result in more robust client/server applications.  =
With PHP
> >> Zend boosted beating both in speed and performance and PHP appears =
to have
> >> allot of energy surronding it at this time.
> >>
> >> So, from that aspect, PHP wins.  Also there appears to be a very =
sizable
> >> family of "real" PHP initiatives on Source Forge to draw and learn =
from.
> >>
> >> But,...
> >>
> >> From my readings it's also apparent that JAVA is "king and master" =
of the
> >> Server Side Application if the JVM and runtime code is compiled =
properly.
> >> But, checking Source Forge for Java related projects creates a =
large list
> > of
> >> mostly abstract and esoteric projects: not alot of meat on the =
bones from
> > a
> >> "get things done" standpoint.
> >>
> >> Question is, what do you mavens of logical mayhem recommend as my =
next
> > area
> >> of focus.  I am interested in developing some server-side =
applications
> > that
> >> meld into the DynAPI interface on the client-side (yes, Pascal... =
be
> >> amazied).
> >>
> >> Java or PHP?
> >>
> >> Will learning PHP now be advantageous or detrimental to learning =
JAVA/JINI
> >> later?
> >> How does OOP in PHP compare to JAVA OOP?  I realize it lacks =
interfaces
> > and
> >> solid abstraction.
> >> Why are most the PHP initiatives on Source Forge solid and down to =
earth
> >> while JAVA tends to be lofty and not very "real world" in nature?
> >>
> >> Looking for a little feedback here.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Ray "fear the rock" Smith
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> >> Dyn...@li...
> >> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>=20
>=20
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG Free Edition
> > http://www.grisoft.com/html/us_index.cfm
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.231 / Virus Database: 112 - Release Date: 2/12/01
>=20
>=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev=20
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------
> DynAPI Snapshots: http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/snapshot/
> DynAPI Homepage: http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>=20


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!

[Michael P. <mp...@ph...>]

If you want the code, I can send you my loadURL work.  This works similar to the loadpanel stuff but allows for loading of html pages with <script> tags.  It also allows for content to be read after loading (not possible with the loadpanel in NS).

It should be quite easy to get this to work as the basis for any server communication because it can be used to return JS code and not just html.

About the only problem at the moment is that it can only load urls.  This means that only URL based scripts (not those that result from POST forms can be used.

"Henrik Våglin" wrote:

> I have done some work aimed at just that with my work-in-progress-but-stalled serverTasks fileI/O widget. Here's my dev ref spec if anybody want to pick up on it for server-side languages besides ASP, which unfortunatly is the only one I'm profident enough in:
>
> input
> =====
> querystring from a form with get method or manipulating the URI with javascript:
>
> file  - the file path + name
> task  - values: open|save|del
> content  - text to be saved (not required for open or del,so the script
>    shouldn't bug out if this one isn't provided)
>
> output
> =======
> javascript syntax variables new values as pure text without any surrounding script tag:
>
> this.file  - just to reassure it's the right file being handled
> this.task  - the current set task (which will be default til new is set)
> this.scriptname  - returns the scriptname just to make sure
> this.serverResponse - returns "opened","saved" or "deleted" if successful or else custom error message
> this.tasktime  - nice feature if you want to inform your users how long they waited ;)
> this.content  - holds the last saved content until the variable value is changed (escape encoded)
>
> script-run
> ==========
> the script should run this:
>
> 1. recieve the input (if applicable set to local values)
> 2. read from file opendir and compare if any line match the path ( ievalue of file input value excluding the filename - the part before last /). If it match any one line the script should continue towards running the task, and if not just end and return new output this.serverResponse='no access'.
> 3. check that the file exists. If it doesn't, task save should create a new file, while open and del just return serverResponse='non-existing'.
> 4. run the task defined in input variable task. task save should return 'saved' if successful, task open return 'opened' & task del 'deleted'.
> 5 output javascript syntax as pure text, the content value should be escape encoded as to not mess upp the browser client view
>
> I'm not yet sure how the javascript would have to be output to work correctly in the loadpanel of the serverTask fileI/O widget, but it should be able to get the same output from whatever server-side language using the standard model above, and even a client-side script might interface it as complement when.
>
> I already got it partly working as expected with the ASP variant, all i need is some ideas as to how to get the javascript properly refered back to the widget in which the hidden loadpanel holds the ASP script output. And of course if someone would take on the task of scripting a corresponding server-side variant of that interface as described above. Then maybe it could be taken further to a dbI/O servertasks widget later on...
>
> You're free to ask or comment ahead, all responses are apprieated :)
>
> Henrik Våglin [ hv...@ya... ]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Rainwater" <rra...@ya...>
> To: "DynAPI Development List" <dyn...@li...>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:25 PM
> Subject: Re[2]: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!
>
> >
> > We should come up with some specification for the component, including
> > the methods and properties.  Then, it could be created for different
> > environments, but work essentially the same.  That way, people could
> > help work on the specific language that they know the best.
> >
> > --
> > // Robert Rainwater
> >
> > On 2/14/2001, 2:09:52 PM EST, Doug wrote about "[Dynapi-Dev] serious, .. really!":
> >
> > > What about those who don't use unix?
> > > How about a perl based DynServer component?
> > > We could implement Server-side File i/o, as well as a Perl based Database..
> > > To name a couple of things
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Raymond Smith" <dst...@or...>
> > > To: <dyn...@li...>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:29 PM
> > > Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] serious, ... really!
> >
> >
> > >> Associates,
> > >>
> > >> I've been doing alot of research in what direction I would like to go
> > > next;
> > >> in conjunction with the DynAPI.  While the API is wonderous for creating
> > >> dynamic interfaces it needs a server-side partner in my mind to reach its
> > >> full potential.
> > >>
> > >> Comparing ASP, JSP and PHP I've decided that LAMP (Linux, Apache, mySQL
> > > and
> > >> PHP) tends to result in more robust client/server applications.  With PHP
> > >> Zend boosted beating both in speed and performance and PHP appears to have
> > >> allot of energy surronding it at this time.
> > >>
> > >> So, from that aspect, PHP wins.  Also there appears to be a very sizable
> > >> family of "real" PHP initiatives on Source Forge to draw and learn from.
> > >>
> > >> But,...
> > >>
> > >> From my readings it's also apparent that JAVA is "king and master" of the
> > >> Server Side Application if the JVM and runtime code is compiled properly.
> > >> But, checking Source Forge for Java related projects creates a large list
> > > of
> > >> mostly abstract and esoteric projects: not alot of meat on the bones from
> > > a
> > >> "get things done" standpoint.
> > >>
> > >> Question is, what do you mavens of logical mayhem recommend as my next
> > > area
> > >> of focus.  I am interested in developing some server-side applications
> > > that
> > >> meld into the DynAPI interface on the client-side (yes, Pascal... be
> > >> amazied).
> > >>
> > >> Java or PHP?
> > >>
> > >> Will learning PHP now be advantageous or detrimental to learning JAVA/JINI
> > >> later?
> > >> How does OOP in PHP compare to JAVA OOP?  I realize it lacks interfaces
> > > and
> > >> solid abstraction.
> > >> Why are most the PHP initiatives on Source Forge solid and down to earth
> > >> while JAVA tends to be lofty and not very "real world" in nature?
> > >>
> > >> Looking for a little feedback here.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Ray "fear the rock" Smith
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > >> Dyn...@li...
> > >> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> >
> >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG Free Edition
> > > http://www.grisoft.com/html/us_index.cfm
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.231 / Virus Database: 112 - Release Date: 2/12/01
> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > > Dyn...@li...
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > DynAPI Snapshots: http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/snapshot/
> > DynAPI Homepage: http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev

--
Michael Pemberton
mp...@ph...
ICQ: 12107010

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width

[Doug M. <do...@cr...>]

I don't think so.
Personnaly, if I'm going to have that much trouble with NS scroll bars, I
just turn off scroll bars all-together and use a dynapi scroll widget..


On that note:
Has anyone actually documented the use of precreation?
I would like to update the Scroll widget (right now it's "cludged" into
behaving).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Pemberton" <mp...@ph...>
To: <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:24 PM
Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width


> There has been some discussion on manually altering the document.height
> and document.width values to force scrollbars to make all content
> visible.  Is it worth looking at making these automatic in the addChild
> method?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG Free Edition
http://www.grisoft.com/html/us_index.cfm
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.231 / Virus Database: 112 - Release Date: 2/12/01

RE: [Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width

[Pascal B. <pa...@dy...>]

see widget tutorial (part 4 I think)  it is updated to reflect the latest
code.

Pascal Bestebroer
pa...@dy...
http://www.dynamic-core.net

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: dyn...@li...
> [mailto:dyn...@li...]Namens Doug Melvin
> Verzonden: woensdag 14 februari 2001 20:07
> Aan: dyn...@li...
> Onderwerp: Re: [Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width
>
>
> I don't think so.
> Personnaly, if I'm going to have that much trouble with NS scroll bars, I
> just turn off scroll bars all-together and use a dynapi scroll widget..
>
>
> On that note:
> Has anyone actually documented the use of precreation?
> I would like to update the Scroll widget (right now it's "cludged" into
> behaving).
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Pemberton" <mp...@ph...>
> To: <dyn...@li...>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:24 PM
> Subject: [Dynapi-Dev] NS Height and Width
>
>
> > There has been some discussion on manually altering the document.height
> > and document.width values to force scrollbars to make all content
> > visible.  Is it worth looking at making these automatic in the addChild
> > method?
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> > Dyn...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG Free Edition
> http://www.grisoft.com/html/us_index.cfm
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.231 / Virus Database: 112 - Release Date: 2/12/01
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dynapi-Dev mailing list
> Dyn...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-dev
>