dynapi-dev

[Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[David K. <dk...@pe...>]

There are PHP errors all over the web site.  No word from any project 
admin.  Last stable release was 2.5.7 in January 2002.  Latest 
development release was 3.0 Beta 1 in June 2003.  Virtually no activity 
on this mailing list since Octorber 2003.  What happened that killed all 
activity on this project?

What alternatives are there?  domapi (http://www.domapi.com/) is the 
most promising one I can find.

Thanks,
-David

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> "David King" <dk...@pe...>; 2005-03-17@09:01 -0500
>
> There are PHP errors all over the web site.

I posted about those a few weeks ago asking if it's ok if I fix this,
nobody responded.  Check the archives.  It's a trivial fix and I can do
it, so I guess I'll go fix that at least.  One PHP call in about 4
locations (only two shown on the site's first page).  But the two on the
first page are in loops, that's why there's so many errors.

> No word from any project admin.  Last stable release was 2.5.7 in
> January 2002.  Latest development release was 3.0 Beta 1 in June 2003.
> Virtually no activity on this mailing list since Octorber 2003.  What
> happened that killed all activity on this project?

Can't say for sure.  These things just happen?  The need for employment 
and a job which perhaps doesn't have a niche in which to apply the 
DynAPI?  The project is indeed in a massive lull.

> What alternatives are there?  domapi (http://www.domapi.com/) is the
> most promising one I can find.

I only just looked quickly.  That may be an option, but it's not free 
under the GPL, it's free only for personal use, and pay for all other 
uses.  You have no rights to make modifications, any work you contribute 
belongs to them, and they make money from that but don't share it with 
you.  ;-)

Leif

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> "Leif W" <war...@us...>; 2005-03-17@10:12 -0500
>
>> "David King" <dk...@pe...>; 2005-03-17@09:01 -0500
>>
>> There are PHP errors all over the web site.
>
> I posted about those a few weeks ago asking if it's ok if I fix this,
> nobody responded.  Check the archives.  It's a trivial fix and I can 
> do
> it, so I guess I'll go fix that at least.  One PHP call in about 4
> locations (only two shown on the site's first page).  But the two on 
> the
> first page are in loops, that's why there's so many errors.

FWIW I fixed this on the live site.

Both grep commands below expand to this list of individual files, which 
may have had more than one fix each.

    images/links/links.php
    themes/1225AM/footer.php
    themes/Default/footer.php
    links.php
    mainfile.php

#
# Go to web site
#
cd /home/groups/d/dy/dynapi/htdocs/dynapi

#
# Find list of files to correct and look at the lines
#
grep -HinR LC_TIME .

#
# Remove the quotes around LC_TIME.
#
perl -p -i -e 's/\"LC_TIME\"/LC_TIME/g' `grep -lR \"LC_TIME\" .`

Leif

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Andrew G. <an...@zo...>]

David King wrote:

> There are PHP errors all over the web site.  No word from any project 
> admin.  Last stable release was 2.5.7 in January 2002.  Latest 
> development release was 3.0 Beta 1 in June 2003.  Virtually no 
> activity on this mailing list since Octorber 2003.  What happened that 
> killed all activity on this project?

I have a few theories.

    * The administrators of the project seem to have all moved on and
      there doesn't seem to have been any effort made to find new
      volunteers to administer the project.

    * Genuine cross-platform JavaScript gurus are not as common as you
      might think.

    * There is a huge learning curve with DynAPI. DynAPI has an elegant
      object model that makes it much easier to build complex web
      applications. However its focus on supporting old browsers with
      strange event handling mechanisms (Netscape 4.7) means that parts
      of it are far more complicated than they would be if it only
      modern browsers were supported. This complexity means that you
      can't just take a JavaScript programmer off the street, ask them
      to work on the DynAPI core and expect anything to happen in a hurry.

>
> What alternatives are there?  domapi (http://www.domapi.com/) is the 
> most promising one I can find.

Another alternative that I recently came across is a thing called 
ProtoLayer (www.protolayer.com), which seems to have been inspired by 
the DynAPI approach. It's not open source, but it is free for commercial 
use. I must confess that I haven't actually used it myself yet, but it 
looks interesting.


Andrew

>
> Thanks,
> -David

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

>
> Andrew Gillett; 2005-03-29@20:25 -0500
>> David King wrote:
>> There are PHP errors all over the web site.  No word from any project 
>> admin.  Last stable release was 2.5.7 in January 2002.  Latest 
>> development release was 3.0 Beta 1 in June 2003.  Virtually no 
>> activity on this mailing list since Octorber 2003.  What happened 
>> that killed all activity on this project?
>
> I have a few theories.

Yeah it's difficult to answer.  It's difficult to read.  I've always 
been on the fringes (since just before they went to SourceForge), not 
contributing too much but following along and doing what I can.  Trying 
to figure stuff out has gotten a little more difficult.  There are so 
many techniques used in the code in DynAPI 3 that it's hard to get my 
head around sometimes.

> The administrators of the project seem to have all moved on and there 
> doesn't seem to have been any effort made to find new volunteers to 
> administer the project.

I'm not an admin, but I seem to be able to mess with (read, 
write-modify, write-new) most of the files in the web tree.  I can read, 
write and create files within any given CVS module, but I have not tried 
creating new modules or removing the "mistake"/empty modules.  Anyways, 
perhaps something more could be done to get more people involved?

> Genuine cross-platform JavaScript gurus are not as common as you might 
> think.

I used to be pretty good with using DynAPI 1, never really got the hang 
of DynAPI 2, and got away from the DynAPI during most of the DynAPI 2 
life cycle.  I came back at the end of DynAPI 2 and the beginning of 
DynAPI 3.  I've got minimal understanding of DynAPI 3 I think.  I 
sucessfully added a little widget thingy, and half-arsed some PHP/SODA 
stuff but never got around to completing or integrating submitted code. 
I always seem to get sidetracked, which is my own SNAFU, nothing to do 
with DynAPI.  If I were working a specific job (pay or volunteer) and 
using this stuff with other people, I'd be less likely to be distracted. 
:)

> There is a huge learning curve with DynAPI.

Ain't that the truth.  It's actually not all that bad.  It's just not 
always well documented.

> DynAPI has an elegant object model that makes it much easier to build 
> complex web applications.

That's a reason why it should be alive, not dead.  ;-)

> However its focus on supporting old browsers with strange event 
> handling mechanisms (Netscape 4.7) means that parts of it are far more 
> complicated than they would be if it only modern browsers were 
> supported. This complexity means that you can't just take a JavaScript 
> programmer off the street, ask them to work on the DynAPI core and 
> expect anything to happen in a hurry.

I remember the heyday in 1999 with DynAPI 1 on the brand-new version 4 
browsers.  I remember discovering each week at least 5 subtle ways in 
which both IE and NN were broken, and another 5 ways in which they 
behaved differently.  The differences were in HTML, JavaScript, CSS, and 
even form submissions.  (ex. NN4 used to submit an empty text field as 
two spaces, so server side scripts needed to handle this).

> What alternatives are there?  domapi (http://www.domapi.com/) is the 
> most promising one I can find.
>
> Another alternative that I recently came across is a thing called 
> ProtoLayer (www.protolayer.com), which seems to have been inspired by 
> the DynAPI approach. It's not open source, but it is free for 
> commercial use. I must confess that I haven't actually used it myself 
> yet, but it looks interesting.

If you're in business, you have to do what you have to do, and use 
whatever you get your hands on that can do what you want to do.  It 
kills me that there are proprietary JavaScript libraries.  I remeber 
being on the internet before there was JavaScript, and everyone was 
happy to share their clever bits of code with everyone else.  It 
surprises me that there are no other comparable GPL/LGPL JavaScript 
libraries.  Maybe all the more reason that it's important to keep this 
one going.

Leif

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Doug M. <do...@cr...>]

I belive I was given Admin access myself.
Unfornutatly I lost my sourceforge password a very long time ago
and have since given up on their system ever giving my my password.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Leif W" <war...@us...>
To: <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?


> >
>> Andrew Gillett; 2005-03-29@20:25 -0500
>>> David King wrote:
>>> There are PHP errors all over the web site.  No word from any project 
>>> admin.  Last stable release was 2.5.7 in January 2002.  Latest 
>>> development release was 3.0 Beta 1 in June 2003.  Virtually no 
>>> activity on this mailing list since Octorber 2003.  What happened 
>>> that killed all activity on this project?
>>
>> I have a few theories.
> 
> Yeah it's difficult to answer.  It's difficult to read.  I've always 
> been on the fringes (since just before they went to SourceForge), not 
> contributing too much but following along and doing what I can.  Trying 
> to figure stuff out has gotten a little more difficult.  There are so 
> many techniques used in the code in DynAPI 3 that it's hard to get my 
> head around sometimes.
> 
>> The administrators of the project seem to have all moved on and there 
>> doesn't seem to have been any effort made to find new volunteers to 
>> administer the project.
> 
> I'm not an admin, but I seem to be able to mess with (read, 
> write-modify, write-new) most of the files in the web tree.  I can read, 
> write and create files within any given CVS module, but I have not tried 
> creating new modules or removing the "mistake"/empty modules.  Anyways, 
> perhaps something more could be done to get more people involved?
> 
>> Genuine cross-platform JavaScript gurus are not as common as you might 
>> think.
> 
> I used to be pretty good with using DynAPI 1, never really got the hang 
> of DynAPI 2, and got away from the DynAPI during most of the DynAPI 2 
> life cycle.  I came back at the end of DynAPI 2 and the beginning of 
> DynAPI 3.  I've got minimal understanding of DynAPI 3 I think.  I 
> sucessfully added a little widget thingy, and half-arsed some PHP/SODA 
> stuff but never got around to completing or integrating submitted code. 
> I always seem to get sidetracked, which is my own SNAFU, nothing to do 
> with DynAPI.  If I were working a specific job (pay or volunteer) and 
> using this stuff with other people, I'd be less likely to be distracted. 
> :)
> 
>> There is a huge learning curve with DynAPI.
> 
> Ain't that the truth.  It's actually not all that bad.  It's just not 
> always well documented.
> 
>> DynAPI has an elegant object model that makes it much easier to build 
>> complex web applications.
> 
> That's a reason why it should be alive, not dead.  ;-)
> 
>> However its focus on supporting old browsers with strange event 
>> handling mechanisms (Netscape 4.7) means that parts of it are far more 
>> complicated than they would be if it only modern browsers were 
>> supported. This complexity means that you can't just take a JavaScript 
>> programmer off the street, ask them to work on the DynAPI core and 
>> expect anything to happen in a hurry.
> 
> I remember the heyday in 1999 with DynAPI 1 on the brand-new version 4 
> browsers.  I remember discovering each week at least 5 subtle ways in 
> which both IE and NN were broken, and another 5 ways in which they 
> behaved differently.  The differences were in HTML, JavaScript, CSS, and 
> even form submissions.  (ex. NN4 used to submit an empty text field as 
> two spaces, so server side scripts needed to handle this).
> 
>> What alternatives are there?  domapi (http://www.domapi.com/) is the 
>> most promising one I can find.
>>
>> Another alternative that I recently came across is a thing called 
>> ProtoLayer (www.protolayer.com), which seems to have been inspired by 
>> the DynAPI approach. It's not open source, but it is free for 
>> commercial use. I must confess that I haven't actually used it myself 
>> yet, but it looks interesting.
> 
> If you're in business, you have to do what you have to do, and use 
> whatever you get your hands on that can do what you want to do.  It 
> kills me that there are proprietary JavaScript libraries.  I remeber 
> being on the internet before there was JavaScript, and everyone was 
> happy to share their clever bits of code with everyone else.  It 
> surprises me that there are no other comparable GPL/LGPL JavaScript 
> libraries.  Maybe all the more reason that it's important to keep this 
> one going.
> 
> Leif
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> "Doug Melvin" <do...@cr...>; 2005-03-30@14:45 -0500
>
>I belive I was given Admin access myself.
> Unfornutatly I lost my sourceforge password a very long time ago
> and have since given up on their system ever giving my my password.

Hi Doug,

I just reset my password in about 30 seconds.  Why wasn't this working 
for you?  Do you remember and have access to the email account specified 
during registration?  If so, have you contacted any people at SF.net for 
additional support and a password reset?  If you want access to the 
account, let me know if there's anything I can do.  I don't know what I 
could do, but I'll do it.

BTW: You don't seem to be an admin in DynAPI members list, because your 
name isn't in bold letters.  Also you have no role (along with 4 other 
people).  The admin seem to be Dan, Jordi, Richard and Raymond.  Of 
those, Raymond is the most recently active, having posted to the lists a 
few months ago.

Leif

P.S. I just CCed your SF account, curious to see if it hits your forward 
email and gets to you or bounces back to me.

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Andrew G. <an...@zo...>]

Doug Melvin wrote:

> I belive I was given Admin access myself.
> Unfornutatly I lost my sourceforge password a very long time ago
> and have since given up on their system ever giving my my password.

Hi Doug,

According to the member list 
(http://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?group_id=5757), you are a 
developer - not an admin. But you're still ahead of me. I did once ask 
for developer access but never received a reply. :(


Andrew

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> "Andrew Gillett" <an...@zo...>; 2005-03-30@19:01 -0500
>
> Doug Melvin wrote:
>
>> I belive I was given Admin access myself.
>> Unfornutatly I lost my sourceforge password a very long time ago
>> and have since given up on their system ever giving my my password.
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> According to the member list 
> (http://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?group_id=5757), you are 
> a developer - not an admin.

Well, as I said, he has no role listed.  ^^  I don't know if it's 
because they added the role field some time after he joined the group, 
or if the SF system is just messed up and missing values for the role 
column of the row that contains the user name "doug_melvin". 
Technically the role is a [space] character, if you view source.

> But you're still ahead of me. I did once ask for developer access but 
> never received a reply. :(

Well, I guess the first order of business is to find someone (or 
preferably 2-3 people) to become an active admins.  If any admin are out 
there and reading this list, just please make me an admin and shoot a 
quick note to me.  Over the years, I haven't contributed much code, but 
have contributed chatter on the lists, and though I've had the ability 
to really foul up the CVS (by ignorance or malice), I am happy to say I 
haven't done so.

I think the second order of business would be to make a backup of the 
site.  I should probably be able to do some of this as a developer, 
using scp (or pscp in windows).  But we should have at the least some 
sort of schedul to archive the site and the CVS tree.  If we go giving 
some new admins access, and something gets messed up, it'll be nice to 
have a backup.  I did take a CVS snapshot of all modules some weeks ago. 
But all the revision stuff probably needs archiving.  All this admin 
crap that is common to any project but little to do with the specifics 
of the project, I could try and work on that while I get back into the 
code here.

Hmm, third order of business is to make my living will, and among other 
things, specify instructions to turn over the admin rights and backups 
to the other admin in the event of an untimely demise or even temporary 
injury or illness.  ;-)

Leif

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Andrew G. <an...@zo...>]

Leif W wrote:

> Well, I guess the first order of business is to find someone (or 
> preferably 2-3 people) to become an active admins.  If any admin are 
> out there and reading this list, just please make me an admin and 
> shoot a quick note to me.  Over the years, I haven't contributed much 
> code, but have contributed chatter on the lists, and though I've had 
> the ability to really foul up the CVS (by ignorance or malice), I am 
> happy to say I haven't done so.

Well Leif, so far there's you and there's me. I tried to email Dan 
Steinman but most of his addresses have bounced. I'll give it a little 
more time and if I don't hear anything then I'll email the remaining admins.

> I think the second order of business would be to make a backup of the 
> site.  I should probably be able to do some of this as a developer, 
> using scp (or pscp in windows).  But we should have at the least some 
> sort of schedul to archive the site and the CVS tree.  If we go giving 
> some new admins access, and something gets messed up, it'll be nice to 
> have a backup.  I did take a CVS snapshot of all modules some weeks 
> ago. But all the revision stuff probably needs archiving.  All this 
> admin crap that is common to any project but little to do with the 
> specifics of the project, I could try and work on that while I get 
> back into the code here.

Backups are good. As far as CVS goes, it should be sufficient to tag the 
repository before doing anything. CVS tags are wonderful things but they 
haven't been used here - yet.

One change to the site that I would like to see is a separation of 
dynapi3 related material from the earlier releases. But first the site 
needs some fixing. Currently there are a number of links under "Main 
Menu" on the LHS of the screen that point to 
http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/doccenter/. These all produce the error:

    *Fatal error*: Cannot redeclare gettext() in
    */home/groups/d/dy/dynapi/htdocs/doccenter/lib/config.php* on line *48
    *

Now these are the links that used to point to the documentation (mostly 
for dynapi2 if I remember correctly). It would be good if they worked.

> Hmm, third order of business is to make my living will, and among 
> other things, specify instructions to turn over the admin rights and 
> backups to the other admin in the event of an untimely demise or even 
> temporary injury or illness.  ;-)
>
> Leif

OK, just be sure to leave your money to me :-)


Andrew

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> Andrew Gillett; 2005-03-31@23:45 -0500
>
> Well Leif, so far there's you and there's me. I tried to email Dan 
> Steinman but most of his addresses have bounced. I'll give it a little 
> more time and if I don't hear anything then I'll email the remaining 
> admins.

I should update that I've already shot a mail off to the current admin. 
Dan's site seems to have been disabled.  Web site responds but forbids 
access.  Email bounces.  The site is still owned by Dan, but the admin 
and technical email addresses are the same as the address known to 
bounce.  I don't want to hassle Dan over anything, but at this point I 
just hope he's alive and well.  :-)

> Backups are good. As far as CVS goes, it should be sufficient to tag 
> the repository before doing anything. CVS tags are wonderful things 
> but they haven't been used here - yet.

Well, it's a good thing that I want to mention things and get responses 
before doing anything, because I have no idea what CVS tags are, what 
they do, how, when or why to use them.  I'm sketchy on the backend of 
CVS as I've only been a user, but in the abstract sense, I figure all 
those changes, comments, different versions or patches, all must sit 
somewhere, either in a lot of little files or some big binary file, in 
some format or other, and I do not get any of that when checking out, 
nor would I want to.  Maybe it can all be obtained with other CVS 
commands besides checkout.  Just a matter of reading a man page one 
afternoon.  Followed up by reading some threads about best practices for 
code organization for larger projects down to similar sized projects.

> One change to the site that I would like to see is a separation of 
> dynapi3 related material from the earlier releases. But first the site 
> needs some fixing. Currently there are a number of links under "Main 
> Menu" on the LHS of the screen that point to 
> http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/doccenter/. These all produce the error:
>
> Fatal error: Cannot redeclare gettext() in 
> /home/groups/d/dy/dynapi/htdocs/doccenter/lib/config.php on line 48
>
> Now these are the links that used to point to the documentation 
> (mostly for dynapi2 if I remember correctly). It would be good if they 
> worked.

Yikes, well let's see what's going on.  The code hasn't changed in 4 
years but the language has.

This is the code at those lines.  What in the heck?  It doesn't do 
anything?

46:    $locale = array();
48:    function gettext ($text) {
49: //              global $locale;
50:  //       if (!empty ($locale[$text]))
51: //                      return $locale[$text];
52:         return $text;
53:    }

Here are all the files in the whole website tree that have "gettext" in 
them, all in the doccenter.

./doccenter/admin.php
./doccenter/lib/config.php
./doccenter/lib/diff.php
./doccenter/lib/display.php
./doccenter/lib/editpage.php
./doccenter/lib/fullsearch.php
./doccenter/lib/msql.php
./doccenter/lib/mysql.php
./doccenter/lib/pageinfo.php
./doccenter/lib/savepage.php
./doccenter/lib/search.php
./doccenter/lib/setupwiki.php
./doccenter/lib/stdlib.php

And here's what the PHP manual has to say about it all.  PHP 4.3.10 is 
in use on the server.

================================================================
(PHP 3>= 3.0.7, PHP 4 )

gettext -- Lookup a message in the current domain

Description
string gettext ( string message )

This function returns a translated string if one is found in the 
translation table, or the submitted message if not found. You may use 
the underscore character '_' as an alias to this function.

Example 1. gettext()-check
<?php
setlocale(LC_ALL, 'de_DE');
bindtextdomain("myPHPApp", "./locale");
textdomain("myPHPApp");
// Translation is looking for in ./locale/de_DE/LC_MESSAGES/myPHPApp.mo 
now
echo gettext("Welcome to My PHP Application");
?>
================================================================

So, now let's look at how gettext was used in doccenter code.  Well, the 
locale array was the only thing used in config.php:gettext, so searching 
for anything that changes the locale array, or... even anything named 
locale, I find absolutely nothing.

Maybe if I just comment the whole gettext thing out everything will work 
and nothing will break... or maybe then all those places where gettext 
is currently used will cause errors, and those usages will need to be 
modified.  That's usually the case, not always a big deal doing, just 
figuring out what to change.

Well, my work here is done... comment out and problem goes away.  Until 
next time we meet in battle, oh ancient beast of the code dungeons.  I 
feel it was an easy victory to lull me into over-confidence while you 
circle around and bite me in the ...

Oh and by the way, some "Submit Bug" page is totally unlocked and 
someone erased whatever content was there and placed in a question on 
2004-08-05.

>> Hmm, third order of business is to make my living will, and among 
>> other things, specify instructions to turn over the admin rights and 
>> backups to the other admin in the event of an untimely demise or even 
>> temporary injury or illness.  ;-)
>
> OK, just be sure to leave your money to me :-)

Right, I'll have my attorney call your attorney.  They can do lunch and 
when I die there should be just enough money left to buy a can of 
kerosene but you'll have to spot me one last time for the matches.

Leif

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Frank A. <fra...@th...>]

HI

My name is frank alcantara, I am one developer of thyapi... a widget set
using dynapi... I am here also, and I am very interested in this
project.


Frank Alcantara
On Fri, 2005-04-01 at 14:45 +1000, Andrew Gillett wrote:
> Leif W wrote: 
> > Well, I guess the first order of business is to find someone (or
> > preferably 2-3 people) to become an active admins.  If any admin are
> > out there and reading this list, just please make me an admin and
> > shoot a quick note to me.  Over the years, I haven't contributed
> > much code, but have contributed chatter on the lists, and though
> > I've had the ability to really foul up the CVS (by ignorance or
> > malice), I am happy to say I haven't done so. 
> Well Leif, so far there's you and there's me. I tried to email Dan
> Steinman but most of his addresses have bounced. I'll give it a little
> more time and if I don't hear anything then I'll email the remaining
> admins.
> > I think the second order of business would be to make a backup of
> > the site.  I should probably be able to do some of this as a
> > developer, using scp (or pscp in windows).  But we should have at
> > the least some sort of schedul to archive the site and the CVS tree.
> > If we go giving some new admins access, and something gets messed
> > up, it'll be nice to have a backup.  I did take a CVS snapshot of
> > all modules some weeks ago. But all the revision stuff probably
> > needs archiving.  All this admin crap that is common to any project
> > but little to do with the specifics of the project, I could try and
> > work on that while I get back into the code here. 
> Backups are good. As far as CVS goes, it should be sufficient to tag
> the repository before doing anything. CVS tags are wonderful things
> but they haven't been used here - yet.
> 
> One change to the site that I would like to see is a separation of
> dynapi3 related material from the earlier releases. But first the site
> needs some fixing. Currently there are a number of links under "Main
> Menu" on the LHS of the screen that point to
> http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/doccenter/. These all produce the error:
>         Fatal error: Cannot redeclare gettext()
>         in /home/groups/d/dy/dynapi/htdocs/doccenter/lib/config.php on
>         line 48
> Now these are the links that used to point to the documentation
> (mostly for dynapi2 if I remember correctly). It would be good if they
> worked.
> > Hmm, third order of business is to make my living will, and among
> > other things, specify instructions to turn over the admin rights and
> > backups to the other admin in the event of an untimely demise or
> > even temporary injury or illness.  ;-) 
> > 
> > Leif 
> OK, just be sure to leave your money to me :-)
> 
> 
> Andrew
> 

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Benoit M. <mar...@ma...>]

I'm still interested too.

Benoit

On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 03:21  AM, Frank Alcantara wrote:

> HI
>
> My name is frank alcantara, I am one developer of thyapi... a widget 
> set
> using dynapi... I am here also, and I am very interested in this
> project.
>
>
> Frank Alcantara
> On Fri, 2005-04-01 at 14:45 +1000, Andrew Gillett wrote:
>> Leif W wrote:
>>> Well, I guess the first order of business is to find someone (or
>>> preferably 2-3 people) to become an active admins.  If any admin are
>>> out there and reading this list, just please make me an admin and
>>> shoot a quick note to me.  Over the years, I haven't contributed
>>> much code, but have contributed chatter on the lists, and though
>>> I've had the ability to really foul up the CVS (by ignorance or
>>> malice), I am happy to say I haven't done so.
>> Well Leif, so far there's you and there's me. I tried to email Dan
>> Steinman but most of his addresses have bounced. I'll give it a little
>> more time and if I don't hear anything then I'll email the remaining
>> admins.
>>> I think the second order of business would be to make a backup of
>>> the site.  I should probably be able to do some of this as a
>>> developer, using scp (or pscp in windows).  But we should have at
>>> the least some sort of schedul to archive the site and the CVS tree.
>>> If we go giving some new admins access, and something gets messed
>>> up, it'll be nice to have a backup.  I did take a CVS snapshot of
>>> all modules some weeks ago. But all the revision stuff probably
>>> needs archiving.  All this admin crap that is common to any project
>>> but little to do with the specifics of the project, I could try and
>>> work on that while I get back into the code here.
>> Backups are good. As far as CVS goes, it should be sufficient to tag
>> the repository before doing anything. CVS tags are wonderful things
>> but they haven't been used here - yet.
>>
>> One change to the site that I would like to see is a separation of
>> dynapi3 related material from the earlier releases. But first the site
>> needs some fixing. Currently there are a number of links under "Main
>> Menu" on the LHS of the screen that point to
>> http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/doccenter/. These all produce the error:
>>         Fatal error: Cannot redeclare gettext()
>>         in /home/groups/d/dy/dynapi/htdocs/doccenter/lib/config.php on
>>         line 48
>> Now these are the links that used to point to the documentation
>> (mostly for dynapi2 if I remember correctly). It would be good if they
>> worked.
>>> Hmm, third order of business is to make my living will, and among
>>> other things, specify instructions to turn over the admin rights and
>>> backups to the other admin in the event of an untimely demise or
>>> even temporary injury or illness.  ;-)
>>>
>>> Leif
>> OK, just be sure to leave your money to me :-)
>>
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>
>
>
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>
Benoit

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> "Frank Alcantara" <fra...@th...>; 2005-04-01@06:21 -0500
>
> HI
>
> My name is frank alcantara, I am one developer of thyapi... a widget 
> set
> using dynapi... I am here also, and I am very interested in this
> project.
>
>
> Frank Alcantara

I'm an admin now, so there's that.

I have to go look through my list again, but Richard Bennet granted me 
admin and requested removal from project, and Andrew you want admin, so 
I'll do that as well, unless there are any objections.  :p

Frank, can you provide a URL to thyapi website, demos, documentation? 
Ahh, I see http://sourceforge.net/projects/thyapi/ but there are no 
downloadable files.  Would you or the other developers in your group be 
interested in contributing code to the DynAPI project?  Either in the 
form of new widgets, bug fixes, patch testing, contributed code testing, 
or extending compatibility with browsers (Linux/Konqueror, Mac, Windows 
IE/Mozilla/Opera).

Leif

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Frank A. <fra...@th...>]

On Fri, 2005-04-01 at 15:11 -0500, Leif W wrote:
> > "Frank Alcantara" <fra...@th...>; 2005-04-01@06:21 -0500
> >
> > HI
> >
> > My name is frank alcantara, I am one developer of thyapi... a widget 
> > set
> > using dynapi... I am here also, and I am very interested in this
> > project.
> >
> >
> > Frank Alcantara
> 
> I'm an admin now, so there's that.
> 
> I have to go look through my list again, but Richard Bennet granted me 
> admin and requested removal from project, and Andrew you want admin, so 
> I'll do that as well, unless there are any objections.  :p
> 
> Frank, can you provide a URL to thyapi website, demos, documentation? 
> Ahh, I see http://sourceforge.net/projects/thyapi/ but there are no 
> downloadable files.  Would you or the other developers in your group be 
> interested in contributing code to the DynAPI project?  Either in the 
> form of new widgets, bug fixes, patch testing, contributed code testing, 
> or extending compatibility with browsers (Linux/Konqueror, Mac, Windows 
> IE/Mozilla/Opera).
> 

First of all, please forgive my English....:)

We are trying to finish the Thyapi site this weekend... we have one old
version in sf cvs... it is funcional, but it is old... about two months
ago. We as got in surprise with Dynapi coming back to life...:)
Congratulations....

We did fixed some small bugs in Dynapi, but we will not be able to send
it to you until next Tuesday, sorry for this delay, but we are trying to
finish one project this weekend. We already tested thyapi, in ie,
firefox and safari it is running like a charm...:)

Yeap, we will be proud to help DynApi, as far as possible, Unfortunately
we did started ThyApi project and did some local marketing about it. And
do not want to loose these efforts. 

Our main site is partially on air... http://www.thyamad.com there you
will find more information about us... 

I am admin in other projects, and developer in some others. in one of
then I just send one idea to keep descendant projects with the original
one. I got this idea from Apache.org. The incubator.

In few words....
We could create a branch in Dynapi cvs called incubator and create some
rules to put the descendant projects there. So, for example, we could
keep our thyapi project page in source forge, and keep it also in Dynapi
incubator, The vantages are... The projects keep connect and we create a
new barrier, even psychological, to fork, the  projects will bring
visibility for each other. And most of all the main project will keep
receiving corrections and enhancements from the descendant projects.
What do you think about it?
of course it will need some well wrote guide lines...:)


Besides your opinion we will send our corrections, As far I remember,
all of then was about browser compatibility. 


Frank Alcantara    




> Leif
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> "Frank Alcantara" <fra...@th...>; 2005-04-01@17:01 -0500

[snip]

> First of all, please forgive my English....:)
>
> We are trying to finish the Thyapi site this weekend... we have one 
> old
> version in sf cvs... it is funcional, but it is old... about two 
> months
> ago. We as got in surprise with Dynapi coming back to life...:)
> Congratulations....

Two months is new-enough for us.  ;-)

> We did fixed some small bugs in Dynapi, but we will not be able to 
> send
> it to you until next Tuesday, sorry for this delay, but we are trying 
> to
> finish one project this weekend. We already tested thyapi, in ie,
> firefox and safari it is running like a charm...:)

We'll probably be taking some days to a week to read through the admin 
stuff at SourceForge, and figuring out where every knob and button is 
located and what happens if you twiddle it.  Then we'll have some more 
days or week discussing different topics and figuring out what to 
change, what to remove, what to repair.  We're not just looking at the 
code base, but the site content and layout, and also whatever is in the 
shell server.  I think there's a lot of cruft in there that could 
probably be removed or archived if it's useful.

Anything you can provide would be great, but we won't be ready for a 
little bit.  Did you happen to keep track of all the bugs and the fixes? 
You could perhaps make patches (diff -u) if the files are similar.  Or 
if they are too different then you could maybe add notes to the bug 
tracker, identify where the problem is in DynAPI CVS code (file, line, 
char, string), and how to fix.

> Yeap, we will be proud to help DynApi, as far as possible, 
> Unfortunately
> we did started ThyApi project and did some local marketing about it. 
> And
> do not want to loose these efforts.

Understandable.  So long as licensing is observed (DynAPI is LGPL) and 
full credit is given at least in the source code, there's no problem. 
If you change the API, I think it means the changes must be released as 
LGPL.  But if you make extensions to the API that exist in completely 
separate files, then they can be whatever license you want.  Contrary to 
GPL, which would require the other code to also be GPL.  At least it's 
how I understand it.  There was discussion some years ago, it's in the 
archives.

> Our main site is partially on air... http://www.thyamad.com there you
> will find more information about us...

I found it, thanks.  The site looks very professional.

> I am admin in other projects, and developer in some others. in one of
> then I just send one idea to keep descendant projects with the 
> original
> one. I got this idea from Apache.org. The incubator.

Well, there is the IDE written using DynAPI, but I think they set up 
another SF project because there were some problems or confusions about 
creating CVS entries.  I'm not 100% sure that's correct, it's from 
memory.  ;-)  There is also the DynAPI compressor, and I can't remember 
where it is, but that's surely another example of things that should go 
into the incubator or maybe the project itself.

> In few words....
> We could create a branch in Dynapi cvs called incubator and create 
> some
> rules to put the descendant projects there. So, for example, we could
> keep our thyapi project page in source forge, and keep it also in 
> Dynapi
> incubator, The vantages are... The projects keep connect and we create 
> a
> new barrier, even psychological, to fork, the  projects will bring
> visibility for each other. And most of all the main project will keep
> receiving corrections and enhancements from the descendant projects.
> What do you think about it?

Your English was very good up until now, and I'm a little confused.  ;-) 
I think I understand, but we can talk more later to make sure we 
understand.  The main point I am confused about, is how these are 
connected.  If you make a change to Thyapi then how do the changes get 
into Dynapi?  Is it automatic or needs to be done manually.  Because as 
far as I know, it would be manually, and that could create extra 
maintenance work.  But I may not understand correctly.  But I agree, it 
would be good to advertise the code as much as possible... But only when 
we're ready!  ;-)

> of course it will need some well wrote guide lines...:)
>
>
> Besides your opinion we will send our corrections, As far I remember,
> all of then was about browser compatibility.

Yeah, ther are a lot of open bugs with compatibility problems, some was 
on the list, some in the trackers, some on other parts of the site, a 
lot isn't connected into the trackers so it makes a hard job to collect 
everything and put it there, test and resolve it, but make sure it works 
with some older browsers too.

Leif

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Fausto <fau...@co...>]

Hello guys,

I've been using DynAPI for about 1 year now and I am very happy to see this
project is again moving along.  Can I be of some help in development?

I changed many places in DynAPI to make it work and I am also good with
javaScript and Java.

Any directions would be wonderfull.

Fausto.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Leif W" <war...@us...>
To: <dyn...@li...>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?


> > "Frank Alcantara" <fra...@th...>; 2005-04-01@17:01 -0500
>
> [snip]
>
> > First of all, please forgive my English....:)
> >
> > We are trying to finish the Thyapi site this weekend... we have one
> > old
> > version in sf cvs... it is funcional, but it is old... about two
> > months
> > ago. We as got in surprise with Dynapi coming back to life...:)
> > Congratulations....
>
> Two months is new-enough for us.  ;-)
>
> > We did fixed some small bugs in Dynapi, but we will not be able to
> > send
> > it to you until next Tuesday, sorry for this delay, but we are trying
> > to
> > finish one project this weekend. We already tested thyapi, in ie,
> > firefox and safari it is running like a charm...:)
>
> We'll probably be taking some days to a week to read through the admin
> stuff at SourceForge, and figuring out where every knob and button is
> located and what happens if you twiddle it.  Then we'll have some more
> days or week discussing different topics and figuring out what to
> change, what to remove, what to repair.  We're not just looking at the
> code base, but the site content and layout, and also whatever is in the
> shell server.  I think there's a lot of cruft in there that could
> probably be removed or archived if it's useful.
>
> Anything you can provide would be great, but we won't be ready for a
> little bit.  Did you happen to keep track of all the bugs and the fixes?
> You could perhaps make patches (diff -u) if the files are similar.  Or
> if they are too different then you could maybe add notes to the bug
> tracker, identify where the problem is in DynAPI CVS code (file, line,
> char, string), and how to fix.
>
> > Yeap, we will be proud to help DynApi, as far as possible,
> > Unfortunately
> > we did started ThyApi project and did some local marketing about it.
> > And
> > do not want to loose these efforts.
>
> Understandable.  So long as licensing is observed (DynAPI is LGPL) and
> full credit is given at least in the source code, there's no problem.
> If you change the API, I think it means the changes must be released as
> LGPL.  But if you make extensions to the API that exist in completely
> separate files, then they can be whatever license you want.  Contrary to
> GPL, which would require the other code to also be GPL.  At least it's
> how I understand it.  There was discussion some years ago, it's in the
> archives.
>
> > Our main site is partially on air... http://www.thyamad.com there you
> > will find more information about us...
>
> I found it, thanks.  The site looks very professional.
>
> > I am admin in other projects, and developer in some others. in one of
> > then I just send one idea to keep descendant projects with the
> > original
> > one. I got this idea from Apache.org. The incubator.
>
> Well, there is the IDE written using DynAPI, but I think they set up
> another SF project because there were some problems or confusions about
> creating CVS entries.  I'm not 100% sure that's correct, it's from
> memory.  ;-)  There is also the DynAPI compressor, and I can't remember
> where it is, but that's surely another example of things that should go
> into the incubator or maybe the project itself.
>
> > In few words....
> > We could create a branch in Dynapi cvs called incubator and create
> > some
> > rules to put the descendant projects there. So, for example, we could
> > keep our thyapi project page in source forge, and keep it also in
> > Dynapi
> > incubator, The vantages are... The projects keep connect and we create
> > a
> > new barrier, even psychological, to fork, the  projects will bring
> > visibility for each other. And most of all the main project will keep
> > receiving corrections and enhancements from the descendant projects.
> > What do you think about it?
>
> Your English was very good up until now, and I'm a little confused.  ;-)
> I think I understand, but we can talk more later to make sure we
> understand.  The main point I am confused about, is how these are
> connected.  If you make a change to Thyapi then how do the changes get
> into Dynapi?  Is it automatic or needs to be done manually.  Because as
> far as I know, it would be manually, and that could create extra
> maintenance work.  But I may not understand correctly.  But I agree, it
> would be good to advertise the code as much as possible... But only when
> we're ready!  ;-)
>
> > of course it will need some well wrote guide lines...:)
> >
> >
> > Besides your opinion we will send our corrections, As far I remember,
> > all of then was about browser compatibility.
>
> Yeah, ther are a lot of open bugs with compatibility problems, some was
> on the list, some in the trackers, some on other parts of the site, a
> lot isn't connected into the trackers so it makes a hard job to collect
> everything and put it there, test and resolve it, but make sure it works
> with some older browsers too.
>
> Leif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Dynapi-Dev] Submitting patches (was Is this project dead?)

[Andrew G. <an...@zo...>]

Hi Fausto,

Thanks for coming forward.

You can submit bugs, patches, feature requests, etc. on the "trackers" page:
   http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5757

Items submitted to the tracker system have been ignored for a while now, 
and that is one of the things we're trying to change.

If you're interested and you persist in helping, then CVS access can be 
granted.


Andrew

Fausto wrote:

>Hello guys,
>
>I've been using DynAPI for about 1 year now and I am very happy to see this
>project is again moving along.  Can I be of some help in development?
>
>I changed many places in DynAPI to make it work and I am also good with
>javaScript and Java.
>
>Any directions would be wonderfull.
>
>Fausto.
>  
>

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Submitting patches (was Is this project dead?)

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> "Andrew Gillett" <an...@zo...>; 2005-04-04@23:19 -0500
>
> Hi Fausto,
>
> Thanks for coming forward.
>
> You can submit bugs, patches, feature requests, etc. on the "trackers" 
> page:
>   http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5757
>
> Items submitted to the tracker system have been ignored for a while 
> now, and that is one of the things we're trying to change.

Absolutely, 100%.  Please note that the trackers may continue to be 
ignored for a little while longer.  As admin, we're learning about all 
of the features that SourceForge makes available to projects.  And we're 
also trying to have discussions on the dynapi-admin list (open to all to 
subscribe, and open to subscribers for posting, at the very least during 
the reorganization process).  We need to assess the state of the website 
and other adimistrative tasks, and kind of develop some operating 
procedures.  So we need to research, identify, discuss, make decisions 
and prioritize what needs to be done on a project-wide scope, not just 
the code.

> If you're interested and you persist in helping, then CVS access can 
> be granted.

Also, we need to identify people's specific area(s) of interest and 
identify people who will make a committment to make themselves available 
to be assigned tasks, wether we post a task and a member volunteers, or 
we ask for members to volunteer even if it's not in their primary area 
of interest.  Or if you just want to test code and submit patches, that 
is great too.  But someone still needs to apply the patch to their local 
copy, review and commit them to CVS too.  If you go through all the 
trouble of identifying and fixing a bug, that's only a little more work 
to test it thoroughly, maybe ask others, and commit to the CVS tree. 
It's less work than to have someone like me who might be unfamiliar with 
that part of the code, or the problem, try to understand what is broke, 
apply the patch, re-test it, and then commit it.  That makes double work 
for the same result, so it takes twice as long.  There's a lot of work 
to be done and I know I can't do it all by myself which is why I'd want 
members I can count on who are receptive to the idea of being assigned 
tasks of any type, so long as they agree.  There's nobody forcing 
anything or assigning tasks without getting an OK from the member.  But 
if you're a member, then at the very least expect to be asked to do 
something like check the trackers regularly, check bug reports and test 
patches and submit code in the areas in which you have expressed 
interest.

Check the dynapi-admin mailing list archives, read the posts, and if you 
have ideas on those topics, by all means subscribe and speak up. 
Personally, I may have some good ideas, I may have some bad ideas, I 
can't know unless we have discussions with contributors, wether they are 
other admin, members, developers, or users.  Basically it's up to 
everyone to choose their level of involvement.

Leif

> Andrew
>
> Fausto wrote:
>
>>Hello guys,
>>
>>I've been using DynAPI for about 1 year now and I am very happy to see 
>>this
>>project is again moving along.  Can I be of some help in development?
>>
>>I changed many places in DynAPI to make it work and I am also good 
>>with
>>javaScript and Java.
>>
>>Any directions would be wonderfull.
>>
>>Fausto.
>>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real 
> users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/dyn...@li.../
>
> 

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project dead?

[Andrew G. <an...@zo...>]

Leif W wrote:

> I'm an admin now, so there's that.
>
> I have to go look through my list again, but Richard Bennet granted me 
> admin and requested removal from project, and Andrew you want admin, 
> so I'll do that as well, unless there are any objections.  :p

Well done.  And thank you for fixing that PHP problem! It's useful to 
have access to all the old documentation again.

Do you have any idea what the "Login" on the project home page does? 
This is not the SourceForge login, but is something specific to the 
dynapi page. I've tried creating several logins but the my passwords are 
never accepted.

The two areas I can see myself working on over the coming weeks (or 
months more likely) are documentation and testing. But these will be 
topics for new threads.

Let's hope we're able to breathe some life back into this project and 
revive interest in it.


Andrew
(my sourceforge Login Name is "agillett" and User ID is "134108")

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project alive?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> "Andrew Gillett" <an...@zo...>; 2005-04-01@16:35 -0500
>
>> Leif W wrote:
>>
>> I'm an admin now, so there's that.
>>

Andrew, you're an admin too.  Login at your earliest convenience.  For 
God's sake don't change anything without notifying the other admin.  ;-) 
I took four actions so far, de-op Richard, remove Richard (per request), 
add you, and op you.  I've been looking at everything and trying to just 
take in all the functionality provided by SourceForge.  I had no idea, 
it's mind boggling, and a bit confusing.  ;-)  Well if something is 
majorly broken and needs immediate repair, go for it, but document what 
the problem is, what the change is, and where the changes were made. 
Well it's what I did with the site's PHP quirks anyways.

> Well done.  And thank you for fixing that PHP problem! It's useful to 
> have access to all the old documentation again.

The is a big problem but I don't want to advertise it publicly, and have 
taken a backup last night.  ;-)

> Do you have any idea what the "Login" on the project home page does? 
> This is not the SourceForge login, but is something specific to the 
> dynapi page. I've tried creating several logins but the my passwords 
> are never accepted.

I have absolutely no idea what that was for... presumably to give people 
access to modify the pages.

> The two areas I can see myself working on over the coming weeks (or 
> months more likely) are documentation and testing. But these will be 
> topics for new threads.

You can assign yourself whichever roles you wish.  Before doing 
anything, let's just make sure we have first a definition of what we 
think needs to be done and a reasonable consensus.  I'll discuss systems 
for evaluating consensus on the dynapi-admin list, so get yourself 
subscribed.  I'm doing so now.

> Let's hope we're able to breathe some life back into this project and 
> revive interest in it.

To this end there are what appear at first to be a mind boggling array 
of features provided by SourceForge.  For instance, there are ways to 
advertise seeking developers for the project, and so on.  We can discuss 
this on the admin list perhaps.

Leif

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project alive?

[Andrew G. <an...@zo...>]

Thank you again.

The first tasks will be for us to survey the scene and discuss what 
needs doing. But don't worry, I won't be rushing in to make any drastic 
changes. In fact I don't intend to make any changes without prior 
discussion, planning and consensus.

And like youself, I will also have to spend time finding my my around 
the sourceforge admin facilities.


Andrew


Leif W wrote:

>> "Andrew Gillett" <an...@zo...>; 2005-04-01@16:35 -0500
>>
>>> Leif W wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm an admin now, so there's that.
>>>
>
> Andrew, you're an admin too.  Login at your earliest convenience.  For 
> God's sake don't change anything without notifying the other admin.  
> ;-) I took four actions so far, de-op Richard, remove Richard (per 
> request), add you, and op you.  I've been looking at everything and 
> trying to just take in all the functionality provided by SourceForge.  
> I had no idea, it's mind boggling, and a bit confusing.  ;-)  Well if 
> something is majorly broken and needs immediate repair, go for it, but 
> document what the problem is, what the change is, and where the 
> changes were made. Well it's what I did with the site's PHP quirks 
> anyways.
>
>> Well done.  And thank you for fixing that PHP problem! It's useful to 
>> have access to all the old documentation again.
>
>
> The is a big problem but I don't want to advertise it publicly, and 
> have taken a backup last night.  ;-)
>
>> Do you have any idea what the "Login" on the project home page does? 
>> This is not the SourceForge login, but is something specific to the 
>> dynapi page. I've tried creating several logins but the my passwords 
>> are never accepted.
>
>
> I have absolutely no idea what that was for... presumably to give 
> people access to modify the pages.
>
>> The two areas I can see myself working on over the coming weeks (or 
>> months more likely) are documentation and testing. But these will be 
>> topics for new threads.
>
>
> You can assign yourself whichever roles you wish.  Before doing 
> anything, let's just make sure we have first a definition of what we 
> think needs to be done and a reasonable consensus.  I'll discuss 
> systems for evaluating consensus on the dynapi-admin list, so get 
> yourself subscribed.  I'm doing so now.
>
>> Let's hope we're able to breathe some life back into this project and 
>> revive interest in it.
>
>
> To this end there are what appear at first to be a mind boggling array 
> of features provided by SourceForge.  For instance, there are ways to 
> advertise seeking developers for the project, and so on.  We can 
> discuss this on the admin list perhaps.
>
> Leif
>
>
>
>
>
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>

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Is this project alive?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> "Andrew Gillett" <an...@zo...>; 2005-04-01@18:04 -0500
>
> Thank you again.
>
> The first tasks will be for us to survey the scene and discuss what 
> needs doing. But don't worry, I won't be rushing in to make any 
> drastic changes. In fact I don't intend to make any changes without 
> prior discussion, planning and consensus.
>
> And like youself, I will also have to spend time finding my my around 
> the sourceforge admin facilities.

NOTE: I want to move this discussion to the admin list, and break up the 
topics into smaller, more manageble pieces.  IMO We should leave the dev 
list for talking about code, not project administration, so as to have a 
cleaner archive.

Ok, I can't even post to that list without moderator approval, so I'll 
need to go change the password and change the settings to allow 
subscribed users (if possible restrict to members), and turn off 
moderation.  That stuff can be turned on later if needed but right now 
we need an open channel for active members.  Any objections?  I'll wait 
until I hear anything.

Anyone interested, please (in a day or so) subscribe and check the 
archive.  If there's any problems getting on the list, let me know.  I 
don't know how long it takes for the archive to pick up posts.

Subscribe:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-admin

Archive:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=dynapi-admin

Leif

[Dynapi-Dev] Inactive members?

[Kevin <ke...@ke...>]

Hi,

My sourceforge Login Name is "kevinsf" and ID "713533".

I did tabmanager and framemanager a while back not sure
how it works now.

Are any dynapi sourceforge accounts or dynapi-dev list
e-mails bouncing? If not people may be active in reading
what's going on or even away on holiday.

Starting a cull within a week or two of the new activity
here? But yes delete those with bouncing e-mail accounts.

Kevin.

Re: [Dynapi-Dev] Inactive members?

[Leif W <war...@us...>]

> "Kevin" <ke...@ke...>; 2005-04-02@07:20 -0500
>
> Hi,
>
> My sourceforge Login Name is "kevinsf" and ID "713533".
>
> I did tabmanager and framemanager a while back not sure
> how it works now.
>
> Are any dynapi sourceforge accounts or dynapi-dev list
> e-mails bouncing? If not people may be active in reading
> what's going on or even away on holiday.

Well, I know for sure that Dan's email is totally dead.  I forget, maybe 
one of Jordi's works and one didn't.  Most didn't bounce.  But the mail 
accounts for all I know are abandonned, or the people are just not even 
interested in saying they're not interested.

> Starting a cull within a week or two of the new activity
> here? But yes delete those with bouncing e-mail accounts.

I want people who are motivated to work on DynAPI.  It will give a more 
accurate picture to people if the members list is full of people who 
actually do something besides collect dust.  Doesn't have to be massive 
things.  Even answering one email every month or two, just some sign of 
life.  If they have said nothing on any list and contributed no code or 
patches for over 6 months, they're not motivated enough, forget them. 
If they are on vacation, in the hospital, kidnapped, or extremely busy, 
and they come back, and see they are no longer a member, then they have 
a choice.  Just say "Hey put me back!", or just walk away.  If they're 
not motivated to say "Hey, put me back", then forget them.  If they're 
reading and can't make up their mind within one week, forget them.  If 
we fill a project full of people who are not motivated, it will stagnate 
and die again.  :-\  I am sorry if this offends motivated people who 
were preocccupied with other things, and I want it understood that it's 
no problem to have membership reinstated.  I am not sorry if this 
offends unmotivated people, because the lack of motivation is offensive 
to me.  ;-)  Yes, I lakcked motivation for so long, so I asked myself 
should I just quit or keep going?  It didn't take any longer than about 
1 second to decide to keep trying and step up to the task.  I've been 
motivated by some recent quotation that I read.

"As a final test of [Napoleon] Hill's staying qualities Carnegie put the 
question squarely, asking him is he were given an opportunity to 
organize the philosophy with Carnegie's help, whether or not he would 
complete the task which probably would require twenty years. Unknown to 
Hill, Carnegie gave him sixty seconds in which to make up his mind. In 
twenty-nine seconds Hill said that he would begin the job and complete 
it. Later he learned that Carnegie was sitting with a stopwatch in his 
hand, timing the answer. If it had gone beyond the sixty seconds, Hill 
would have lost his chance, as Carnegie had learned from his observation 
of men that those who are slow to make up their minds are also slow in 
carrying out their decisions."

Carnegie gave 60 seconds.  I gave roughly 10,000 times that.  It's more 
than enough.  :)

Leif