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From: Scott A. L. <sc...@sc...> - 2002-01-03 00:11:28
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DynAPI Folk, Happy new year to all. I found this very interesting. Its a collection of DynAPI-like GUI widgets, except all done with SVG instead of layers/DIVs. It looks like it uses a JavaScript API to manipulate the DOM of an embedded SVG object. http://www.kevlindev.com/gui/ You'll need the Adobe SVG Viewer plug-in to play with it. I particularly like the *diagonal* slider bars: http://www.kevlindev.com/gui/slider/index.htm#Anchor-Example-23522 It's my opinion that this kind of stuff won't take off until the majority of browsers in use support SVG natively without a plug-in. If that ever happens, the days of DHTML widgetry may be over. -- scottandrew -- scott andrew lepera sc...@sc... web stuff: www.scottandrew.com music stuff: www.walkingbirds.com |
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From: Richard B. <ric...@sk...> - 2002-01-03 08:53:54
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Hi, I'm helping Kevin with his SVgUI form replacement widgets, using custom-namespaces inside SVG files, and it has been setup as a SF project, although no files have been released yet. https://sourceforge.net/projects/svgui/ I don't think the plugin is a problem actually, PDF took off, even though it needs a plugin, and the SVG plugin is distributed with the PDF plugin, and with Real-player (amongst many other products) . I am also using SVG in a commercial project , that plots GPS data over a map in (buffered) real-time, online. From this work I think SVG will not replace DHTML anytime soon, in fact, I think it will stimulate libraries like DynAPI, because it is a very powerful tool, as a drawing board, but lacks many things we take for granted in DHTML, and some elements are not up to scratch, performance-wise (SMIL animation for instance). I find it works best when combined with DynAPI-style DHTML elements. Another tool in the toolbox, alongside DHTML, Flash, XML etc etc. Cheers, Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...> To: <dyn...@li...> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 1:10 AM Subject: [Dynapi-Chat] DHTML? SVG! > DynAPI Folk, > > Happy new year to all. > > I found this very interesting. Its a collection of DynAPI-like GUI > widgets, except all done with SVG instead of layers/DIVs. It looks like > it uses a JavaScript API to manipulate the DOM of an embedded SVG object. > > http://www.kevlindev.com/gui/ > > You'll need the Adobe SVG Viewer plug-in to play with it. I > particularly like the *diagonal* slider bars: > > http://www.kevlindev.com/gui/slider/index.htm#Anchor-Example-23522 > > It's my opinion that this kind of stuff won't take off until the > majority of browsers in use support SVG natively without a plug-in. If > that ever happens, the days of DHTML widgetry may be over. > > -- scottandrew > > -- > scott andrew lepera > sc...@sc... > web stuff: www.scottandrew.com > music stuff: www.walkingbirds.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Dynapi-Chat mailing list > Dyn...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-chat > |
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From: Scott A. L. <sc...@sc...> - 2002-01-03 18:39:44
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Richard Bennett wrote: > Hi, > I'm helping Kevin with his SVgUI form replacement widgets, using > custom-namespaces inside SVG files, and it has been setup as a SF project, > although no files have been released yet. > https://sourceforge.net/projects/svgui/ Cool. Will you drop the list a note when it's released? > I don't think the plugin is a problem actually, PDF took off, even though it > needs a plugin, and the SVG plugin is distributed with the PDF plugin, and > with Real-player (amongst many other products). I don't consider the Acrobat reader to be a "plug-in" in a true sense -- you need to download the reader to view PDF files, regardless of whether it's from a browser or your desktop. But I agree that the seamless integration with other clients helped increase Acrobat's (and therefore PDF's) popularity. There's a lot to be said for zero-install. The main reason why Flash is so widespread is because the plug-in is bundled with nearly every new browser. I wonder how successful it would be today if that were not the case. >>From this work I think SVG will not replace DHTML anytime soon, in fact, I > think it will stimulate libraries like DynAPI, because it is a very powerful > tool, as a drawing board, but lacks many things we take for granted in > DHTML, and some elements are not up to scratch, performance-wise (SMIL > animation for instance). I think that's an interesting argument. What exactly does SVG (the spec, not the Adobe implementation) lack that we take for granted in DHTML? -- scott andrew lepera sc...@sc... web stuff: www.scottandrew.com music stuff: www.walkingbirds.com |
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From: John S. <joh...@se...> - 2002-01-03 19:12:27
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Acrobat Plug-in: available for Linux -yeah!
Flash Plug-in: available for Linux -yeah!
DHTML: available for Linux -yeah!
SVG Plug-in: not available for Linux -bummer...
-john <><
On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 10:38, Scott Andrew LePera wrote:
Richard Bennett wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm helping Kevin with his SVgUI form replacement widgets, using
> custom-namespaces inside SVG files, and it has been setup as a SF project,
> although no files have been released yet.
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/svgui/
Cool. Will you drop the list a note when it's released?
> I don't think the plugin is a problem actually, PDF took off, even though it
> needs a plugin, and the SVG plugin is distributed with the PDF plugin, and
> with Real-player (amongst many other products).
I don't consider the Acrobat reader to be a "plug-in" in a true sense --
you need to download the reader to view PDF files, regardless of whether
it's from a browser or your desktop. But I agree that the seamless
integration with other clients helped increase Acrobat's (and therefore
PDF's) popularity.
There's a lot to be said for zero-install. The main reason why Flash is
so widespread is because the plug-in is bundled with nearly every new
browser. I wonder how successful it would be today if that were not the
case.
>>From this work I think SVG will not replace DHTML anytime soon, in fact, I
> think it will stimulate libraries like DynAPI, because it is a very powerful
> tool, as a drawing board, but lacks many things we take for granted in
> DHTML, and some elements are not up to scratch, performance-wise (SMIL
> animation for instance).
I think that's an interesting argument. What exactly does SVG (the
spec, not the Adobe implementation) lack that we take for granted in DHTML?
--
scott andrew lepera
sc...@sc...
web stuff: www.scottandrew.com
music stuff: www.walkingbirds.com
_______________________________________________
Dynapi-Chat mailing list
Dyn...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dynapi-chat
John Sturgeon <><
Systems Architect
SenaReider Inc.
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From: Richard B. <ric...@sk...> - 2002-01-03 19:24:18
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Hi, > >>From this work I think SVG will not replace DHTML anytime soon, in fact, I > > think it will stimulate libraries like DynAPI, because it is a very powerful > > tool, as a drawing board, but lacks many things we take for granted in > > DHTML, and some elements are not up to scratch, performance-wise (SMIL > > animation for instance). > > > I think that's an interesting argument. What exactly does SVG (the > spec, not the Adobe implementation) lack that we take for granted in DHTML? * For one thing it has no form elements (which is why Kevin started that project) * it has no element like the <div> and also no overflow property with scrollbars etc. * It has no text-wrapping, or browser-chosen variable font-sizes. * It has no relative positioning, each line of text, and each object must be absolutely positioned. * It has no built-in scrollbars, if the browser-window is too small, you don't get scrollbars, without hand-coding them, or other trickery. * You cannot - for instance - show some source-code inside <pre> tags. there are lots of things like that, and similary, SVG has lot's of advantages over DHTML, or VML or Flash. The best thing seems to be to combine the technologies, as needed, and there libraries like DynAPI can be very useful. Cheers, Richard. > scott andrew lepera |
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From: Raymond S. <dst...@or...> - 2002-01-04 03:14:28
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<html> <br> Related to SVG, and its quest for world domination.<br><br> <emote> sets a hand-painted blue "rock" next to his keyboard. I'm feeling poetic today.<br><br> It seems that every year or so a debate framed by the powers of SVG wanders into our digital mists and creates a crescendo of "awe and quiet whispers" as to the frail underpinnings of DHTML as an Interface Design Model (hereafter referred to as IDM).<br><br> Now, I personally don't have any issues with SVG's, in fact if we had a better grasp of Einstein's time-space continuum we would all like to "rewind" and integrate SVG into the very fabric of the browser itself. But, herein lies the problem.<br><br> We can't rewind and integrate, and the politics of business have created sufficient barriers to sentence SVG's to a prison built of Plug-In Software Structure (hereafter referred to as PISS).<br><br> See, it's not the SVG that's the problem, it's the vehicle it travels in. No right minded developer would use PISS as a IDM because PISS belongs in very specific containers that are "sub" to the IDM of the page as a whole.<br><br> Translated, this means that a page must be constructed with an open architecture that allows the broadest array of insert able features (XHTML, XML, PISS). <br><br> This is becoming even more important with the explosive growth of pop-up, pop-back, pop-in-your-face advertising that has given birth to a slew of new software products called Pop-Up Killer and Panicware's Pop-Up Stopper. In the future pages will need to be self-contained "events" that self integrate the broadest array of feature sets. So, you see... PISS fits, but in a defined "bucket" within the whole of the IDM.<br><br> Now on to the Illusion of Penetration that marketing done well creates. Macromedia cites 98.3% browser penetration with Flash. The following is from Macromedia's site based on a December 2001 market study (this was hidden well and deep for a reason).<br><br> <u>Flash Version<x-tab> </x-tab> 2<x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab> 3<x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab> 4<x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab> 5 <font color="#FFFFFF"><b>a</u>sh 5</b></font> <br> US <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>98.3% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>97.8% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>95.1% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>86.2% <br> Canada <x-tab> </x-tab>98.6% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>98.4% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>97.1% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>88.7% <br> Europe <x-tab> </x-tab>97.1% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>96.7% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>94.6% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>88.2% <br> Asia <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>97.6% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>95.4% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>93.4% <x-tab> </x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>86.5%<br><br> Try doing Flash to today's standards in Flash version 2 or try selling a client on IE5+ only with it's 86%+ penetration. Won't happen. How has Macromedia so effectively pulled the wool over every ones eyes? You can't even find statistics on Adobes open-source efforts, though I know they exist. Things lie under rugs for reasons.<br><br> So, ...<br><br> At the end of the day let me use my DHTML IDM to paint the most effective and broadest message using a completely open ended architecture. This allows me to use PISS when I need too and PISS can include Flash, Shockwave, 3D Animators, Quicktime, Realplayer, etc... Try dropping "any" of the latter plug-ins into the first (FLASH) and I think you will have answered the question for yourself.<br><br> You can't...<br><br> Raymond<br><br> As a note, I have the newest Adobe Reader 5 (software package, including distiller) and I had to download the Adobe SVG player when I went to peruse these predicted gems of global interactive domination.</html> |
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From: Richard B. <ric...@sk...> - 2002-01-03 19:47:53
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Acrobat Plug-in: available for Linux -yeah!=20 Flash Plug-in: available for Linux -yeah!=20 DHTML: available for Linux -yeah!=20 SVG Plug-in: not available for Linux -bummer...=20 -john <><=20 You'll find a beta version of the plugin for Linux here: http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/old.html Cheers, Richard. |
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From: John S. <joh...@se...> - 2002-01-03 20:07:23
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WOOHOO!
Thanks Richard!
On Thu, 2002-01-03 at 11:44, Richard Bennett wrote:
Acrobat Plug-in: available for Linux -yeah!
Flash Plug-in: available for Linux -yeah!
DHTML: available for Linux -yeah!
SVG Plug-in: not available for Linux -bummer...
-john <><
You'll find a beta version of the plugin for Linux here:
http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/old.html
Cheers,
Richard.
John Sturgeon <><
Systems Architect
SenaReider Inc.
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