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Re: [dotNetRDF-Develop] Integrating SPIN into dotnetrdf
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From: Kevin <ke...@th...> - 2013-03-17 04:22:28
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Tom, I read your Fluent SPQRQL link and the proposal seemed helpful, elegant, and LINQish. I am curious do other SPARQL engines (ie. Java Based) have the APIs akin to Fluent SPARAL? Exactly how far is the Fluent SPARQL development and do you have a target date? Thanks, Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Rob Vesse [mailto:rv...@do...] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 3:45 PM To: dotNetRDF Developer Discussion and Feature Request Cc: Kevin Subject: Re: [dotNetRDF-Develop] Integrating SPIN into dotnetrdf Hey Yes I think using the Fluent Query API for helping to convert the RDF representation back into queries would likely make life much easier. Rob On 3/15/13 1:19 PM, "Tomasz Pluskiewicz" <tom...@gm...> wrote: >Hi Kevin, Rob > >I have been thinking about SPIN for a very long time. And I have >actually very recently read somehere on answeres.semanticweb.com about >using SPIN to implement OWL reasoning. > >Ever since I had started that fluent SPARQL I thought it could actually >be a good base to easily go from SPIN RDF representation to actual >queries. > >I know that the implementation is far from complete. I have been busy >with a multitude of other tasks but if it could prove useful in >implementing SPIN it would be great. Actually one of my goals I did >have in mind was to use Fluent SPARQL for SPIN. Especially that working >with query strings or low-level SPARQL API will be far from >developer-friendly in te long run IMO. > >Kevin, please have a look at my fork, where I have been documenting my >work on a wiki: http://bitbucket.org/romanticweb/dotnetrdf/wiki/Home > >What do you guys think? > >Thank, >Tom > >On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Rob Vesse <rv...@do...> wrote: >> Hey Kevin >> >> Discussion inline: >> >> From: Kevin <ke...@th...> >> Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:40 PM >> To: Rob Vesse <rv...@do...> >> Subject: Integrating SPIN into dotnetrdf >> >> Rob, >> >> >> >> First thank you for your quality work you have done with the >>dotnetrdf project. I have seen a few different posts about your >>initiative to integrate SPIN into dotnetrdf (ie. SPIN Post). After >>much reading on the subject it really seems that SPIN would really >>propel/complement dotnetrdf. >> I believe SPIN not only makes up for the missing OWL inference (Via >>SPIN OWL-RL implementation), it also can expand to suit the modelers >>imagination. >> The fact that the rules are in SPARQL makes for an unbeatable solution. >> Should it matter my current effort involves query a Virtuoso database >>(Some owl support) with dotnetrdf. I would really appreciate you >>taking a look at the questions below: >> >> >> >> -Have you made any further progress on integrating SPIN into dotnetrdf? >> Would you allow me to have the source code in its current state? >>Could I possibly be a contributor on this cause as I am not really >>equipped for the full task? In any case I would appreciate any >>source code which I could use as a learning tool. >> >> >> No I haven't had time to do anything on SPIN for a long time now. I've >>been >> primarily concentrating on getting core features stabilized such as the >> SPARQL engine which are obviously fairly key to building stuff like >>SPIN on >> top. >> >> However I still don't have time to work on SPIN directly so if you want >>to >> work on this please feel free, find the code in the mercurial >>repository at >> https://bitbucket.org/dotnetrdf/dotnetrdf >> >> The previous and very minimal SPIN stub is under Libraries\Query\Spin, >> create your own fork and then you can send pull requests as and when you >> have something to >> >> The key things that need to be done to get the core of SPIN implemented >>are >> as follows: >> >> Update the current spin-sparql-syntax.ttl to a current version, it >>likely >> doesn't represent the current version of the spec (this is primarily a >> convenience reference for developers) >> Finish the existing stubs for converting queries into their SPIN RDF >> representation (see SpinSyntax.cs) >> Write code to turn a RDF encoding of a SPIN query into a query >> >> The middle one would be the easiest to start with since there is already >> some partial stubs to get you started. >> >> >> >> -From the available TopQuadrant documentation I have tried to deduce how >> dotnetrdf might implement SPIN. According to SPIN tutrial, TopBraid >>finds >> all SPIN inferecer rules and runs them when you hit play. Would >>dotnetrdf >> SPIN inferencer only run the rules that are associated with the class >> structure being queried? Basically I am confused how dotnetrdf decides >> when/how/which SPIN rules to run for a given query. >> >> >> That's an implementation detail, we would control how and when rules get >> run. We need to get the basic implementation of SPIN done first before >>this >> aspect of things gets implemented anyway. >> >> >> >> -How much of SPIN could dotnetrdf possibly support.? It appears SPIN >> contains Inference Rules, Constraint Checking, and ability to Isolate >>rules >> for certain conditions. Also the TopBraid tool seems to have >>"User-Defined >> SPARQL functions" and "SPIN Query Templates". I imagine dotnetrdf would >> have to keep up with any SPIN improvements. >> >> >> All of those are supportable in some shape of form, until we have the >>core >> of SPIN up and running we can't really implement those. Most of those >> features run on top of the SPIN core and so will ultimately just be >> implementation details once we have a core to build upon. User defined >> SPARQL functions are basically just SPARQL queries that return a single >> value and query templates are just parameterized queries both of which >>the >> existing SPARQL engine is capable of supporting in one way or another. >>So >> it is just a case of exposing that functionality in the SPIN style. >> >> Hope this is enough to get you started, if not please let us know, >> >> Rob >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Kevin >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>----- >> Everyone hates slow websites. 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