Re: [Dmrpg-devel] First post

[Jouni M. <mo...@pr...>]

On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Ely Levy wrote:

> > > >
> > > > there isn't much on framework yet and that is good, so now we can talk
> > > > about making certain kind of direction and targets what we are going to
> > > > achieve. This might take few weeks or even months, but that doesn't mean
> > >
> > > I think we should make it playble as fast as we can,
> > > even if we are not sure on design that would make more people intrested.
> >
> > 	I'm not interested making things 1000 times all over again just
> > cause something had to achieve really fast.
> 
> no but yoy can design EVERTHING and then start working or you can design
> core then starting working design next level and developing it and so on .
> I find the designing everything approch a waste of time cause the more you
> advance new things pop up.
> that what I ment by fast.

	First I want to design framework and its not enough to say just 
some rpg stuff. And after having framework there can be coding and making 
more specific specifications. Ofcourse specifications change in time when 
things are made, as something new or better pops up. But framework or the 
big picture with little detail wouldn't change after that. 


> > > > that we shouldn't code anything or do some basic work for it. Maybe
> > > > defining what kind of libraries (if not own made) we are going to use and
> > > > what platforms we are mostly trying to target our project. Lately I've
> > > SDL/crystal space?
> > > using those and you solved most problems in moving your code between
> > > platfroms, as much as I dislike it I guess we should support windows as
> > > well..
> >
> > 	Like I said, front end after all isn't the issue. If someone wants
> > to start this doing with crystal space and using sdl thats fine for me,
> > but I'm not going to touch those by myself. So I'm going to make my own
> > stuff or seek better choises. Only matters that I get the data which every
> > frontend uses and I can do my own frontend for that data.
> 
> crystal space is not only frontend it's also protocol the program need to
> speak, but ofcourse one can make whatever frontend he wants, that's part
> of the point of using opensource;)

	But like I said, I don't care about crystal space, if someone 
wants to use it, its just fine for me. I'm not going to touch it even with 
looooong stick :D. 

> > > > we should know about when starting to do this. (try to keep up with me,
> > > > usually I'm writing with mind-flow, so it might feel little bit confusing
> > > > to read my texts.)
> > > >
> > > > Any kind of documentation about things is good. Well I think everyone
> > > > knows that :).
> > >
> > > should we take GNU's coding guide?
> >
> > 	Url to that? I want to see GNU's coding guide (ok, I feel little
> > bit lazy to do a google now, but maybe someone else wants link right away
> > too).
> sorry too used to GNU/linux geeks;)
> http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards.html

ok. that standard looks like what I'm doing right now. (ofcourse I just 
reading first sections of it ;))

> > > > So the network idea what I had to introduce here is simple. There is
> > > > interface for common server / client combination. Everything includes its
> > > > own server and client .. lets see this as an component which is included
> > > > in every frontend and programs we are going to do. Through that
> > > > information is transfered to different clients who needs it and there will
> > > > be interface for modules to register into this components offered network.
> > >
> > > Well one of the biggest challenges is making a dynamic enviourment
> > > so diffrent server could have diffrent sort of graphic or music and the
> > > client won't need to spend hours on downloading it everytime it connects a
> > > new server, that might help.
> >
> > 	Maybe first there should be downloading section of content what is
> > needed by that section of game and after that its only updating. If client
> > can't write that information to anywhere then it just has to get necessary
> > content from server.
> 
> Yea but I guess that a future problem we don't need to deal with now:)

	However, we should be thinking in long terms and seeing what is 
coming, so we won't close any upcoming possibilities cause of poor design. 


> > > Can you give an example in which it solve a problem better than classic
> > > approch would?
> >
> > 	What is this classic approach? Server-farm and alot of clients? I
> > simply just turn clients as little servers too, which can act like proxys
> > to other players if they are on same area for example.
> 
> so you mean doing the server and client in 2 independed modules instead of
> 2 programs? I guess some already do that, like blizzard.
> though they didn't take it as far as being proxies that could be very nice
> feature.

	Not even modules, one big thing. FORGET server and client, think 
as those as one, giving just highway into two directions for users to use. 

> > > > If someone knows more coders to attend into this kind of project we should
> > > > get those. Even if they are not professionals and they know what they are
> > > > doing with coding, they could do routines, modules etc.
> > >
> > > Btw when I talked about module API I didn't mean loadble module API,
> > > I ment more if you want to have a database module or certain feature added
> > > you need to have API inside the code, so for example the calling for
> > > database would stay the same but the module would implement the functions
> > > needed.
> >
> > 	Ehm. how does this go with the thing I said about getting more
> > coders and what could be their tasks?-D
> it should be a bit down;)

	Excuse me?-). I didn't still understand how this thing involves in 
getting more coders and what they could do. 

> > > > About module interface making this whole thing as in scalable and generic,
> > > > so experts on c/c++/java/+other have to think about multiplatform and
> > > > issues what there can be on loading modules. About this I have only
> > >
> > > I don't think we should use more than one langauge in the meanwhile:)
> > > and I think c is good enough:)
> >
> > 	I think there should be interface like network protocol which
> > connects every other platform and basic design for handling that. Through
> > that protocol there can be assigned many things and with that we can offer
> > support for different languages. Coder just have to know little bit
> > sockets or how to use that kind of protocols and start using it to be
> > compatible with our other "servers" or programs.
> 
> protocol?you mean API?or like the parts of the modules talking with each
> other like in CORBA?doesn't it had overhead and slow things down?
> I heard some platforms doesn't handle pipes very well;)

	Oh, I meant with procotol the ways two things communicate, not 
API's. And forget corba, think as corbas server is on anything that uses 
communication protocol to communicate with other programs. (well now this 
is getting really confusing). And what are you talking about pipes? Forget 
those. 

> > 	Haven't heard anyone else who reads this mailing list? I would
> > like to hear other opinnions aswell their introduction. Knowing team makes
> > it easier to understand what kind of resources we have.
> >
> Yea nightspy kidart I know you guys still not sure about what to do and if
> to do it but the only way to know is to try participating:)
> 
> as for vulture I think he is in army service till end of this week I guss
> we'll hear from him then:)

	uhm. ok. And for one thing I want this thingie to be working 
perfectly under windows, its an extra feature if it work on linux or other 
system (which in this design shouldn't be hard to achieve). 

	Cheers, mov.