digimend-devel

[DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...>]

Hi!

I have started to work on the "Tablet setup in GTK based applications (Gimp, MyPaint)" page in the digimend wiki site.
Here is the link: https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_GTK_based_applications_%28Gimp,_MyPaint%29
This is not complete yet, but it can give you some idea what kind of content do I want to put to those pages.

Best wishes:
Viktoria

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...>]

Hi!

I have finished two pages about how to set up tablets:
SourceForge.net: Tablet setup in GTK based applications (Gimp, MyPaint) - digimend
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_GTK_based_applications_(Gimp,_MyPaint)

SourceForge.net: Tablet setup in GTKMM based applications (Inkscape, Synfig Studio) - digimend
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_GTKMM_based_applications_(Inkscape,_Synfig_Studio)

It would be great if you could review it and give me some feed back.

I create the rest of the pages:
Qt apllications (Krita, Pencil)
JPen applications (Alchemy)
X based applications (Blender, Wine (?))
later. 

Best wishes:
Viktoria

"Viktoria S." <vik...@fr...> írta:
>Hi!>
>
I have started to work on the "Tablet setup in GTK based applications (Gimp, MyPaint)" page in the digimend wiki site.>
Here is the link: https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_GTK_based_applications_%28Gimp,_MyPaint%29>
This is not complete yet, but it can give you some idea what kind of content do I want to put to those pages.>
>
Best wishes:>
Viktoria>
>
>
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Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Nikolai K. <sp...@gm...>]

Hi Viktoria,

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...> wrote:
> I have finished two pages about how to set up tablets:
> SourceForge.net: Tablet setup in GTK based applications (Gimp, MyPaint) - digimend
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_GTK_based_applications_(Gimp,_MyPaint)
>
> SourceForge.net: Tablet setup in GTKMM based applications (Inkscape, Synfig Studio) - digimend
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_GTKMM_based_applications_(Inkscape,_Synfig_Studio)
>
> It would be great if you could review it and give me some feed back.

I've started reviewing the first page. Hopefully I'll finish reviewing both
of them by today's evening and will send you the comments.

> I create the rest of the pages:
> Qt apllications (Krita, Pencil)
> JPen applications (Alchemy)
> X based applications (Blender, Wine (?))
> later.

Sure.

Thanks for doing this :)!

Sincerely,
Nick

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...>]

On 04/06/12 21:27, Nikolai Kondrashov wrote:
>
> Here are some comments:
>
> 1. So far I see little sense in putting application instructions
> together based on their toolkit - there is little similarity in the
> configuration instructions.
>
> What if we put every application on a separate page? This way, I
> think, each article will be more focused and the users won't be
> confusing instructions from different applications. We can then have a
> category for application HOWTOs, have an introduction on its page and
> link to it from the main page. 
Well, it can be a good idea yes. It will be easier for the users to find informations, and I guess it will be easier to maintain it too. I suggest to do the following pages then:
Tablet setup in Gimp
Tablet setup in MyPaint
Tablet setup in Krita
Tablet setup in Alchemy
Tablet setup in Blender
Tablet setup in Wine
(I am not quite sure about this topic yet. I guess it should be created, because there are some people who are running windows applications under wine and they want to use their tablet there as well. But there is a bug in wine.... I tried to run Gimp 2.8 windows version and my tablet is not recognised at all, but I guess I should file a bug first which I hasn't done yet.)
Tablets and QT
(I guess this topic should be created because of the QT bug. Do you have better idea for the title?)
I think there is no need for creating a page for Pencil then, unless users demand it.
(Once we agreed on the topics I can reorganize the content than :))

>We can additionally have toolkit
> categories, if needed.
>
> The category pages would look like this one (with more introductory
> text, maybe): https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Category:Tablets
>
> If you don't like this design, we could have a dedicated page instead,
> but the list of articles will need manual updating in this case.

I guess let's drop this category stuff then. My main idea was that if a program uses a toolkit and the tablet works then probably it is going to work in other applications using the same toolkit too. And if a toolkit does not support the tablet then none of the applications will work with the tablet (see QT).

> 2. I think each page should have a note saying where to ask questions
> not covered by the HOWTO and where to send corrections. The
> DIGImend-users maillist is a good place for this, IMHO. Or, maybe
> better still, each article should start with an introduction
> explaining which application and which versions it covers, pointing to
> the maillist for questions and corrections and maybe stating the
> author.

OK. And maybe I can extend some parts of the articles with links to documentations and tutorials etc. if there is some related stuff out there....
>
> 3. There are some small English mistakes and minor style issues. If
> you don't mind, I can fix them in place. I'll try to group the changes
> so that it is easier for you to review. Maybe Dave would be able to go
> through and further improve them after my fixes.

OK, thanks. But I guess that should be done after the content has been reorganized.

>
> 4. I would also like you to be the maintainer of these HOWTOs and keep
> an eye on them, updating and correcting them as necessary. Can you do
> that?

Yes, sure. I do my best.

Best wishes:
Viktoria

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Nikolai K. <sp...@gm...>]

Hi Viktoria,

On 06/05/2012 11:13 AM, Viktoria S. wrote:
> Well, it can be a good idea yes. It will be easier for the users to find
> informations, and I guess it will be easier to maintain it too. I suggest
> to do the following pages then:
> Tablet setup in Gimp
> Tablet setup in MyPaint
> Tablet setup in Krita
> Tablet setup in Alchemy
> Tablet setup in Blender
> Tablet setup in Wine
> (I am not quite sure about this topic yet. I guess it should be created,
> because there are some people who are running windows applications under
> wine and they want to use their tablet there as well. But there is a bug
> in wine.... I tried to run Gimp 2.8 windows version and my tablet is not
> recognised at all, but I guess I should file a bug first which I hasn't
> done yet.)

If there could be Wine-specific setup instructions, then I think it is still
worth creating a page on Wine, even if it doesn't work, just to say that and
link to the bug, which would describe the reasons and possible resolution.

If Wine-based applications are set up differently and their setup differs
from Windows it is better to have separate application pages, IMHO. So, if
there are no significant amount of common Wine-specific instructions between
them, we could just have links to the bug from application pages.

I don't think there is much sense in running Windows version of Gimp on
Linux, so instructions for that are not needed, probably. Yet, we could try
looking at how popular Windows-native apps work under Wine.

> Tablets and QT
> (I guess this topic should be created because of the QT bug. Do you have
> better idea for the title?)

If this page is needed only to describe the issue, and there is no common
Qt-specific instructions there, then we can simply add a note and a link to
the bug to all the Qt-based application pages.

> I think there is no need for creating a page for Pencil then, unless users
> demand it.

Well, you probably know better if the instructions are needed - I never used
it and don't know if it's popular or not.

>> We can additionally have toolkit categories, if needed.
>>
>> The category pages would look like this one (with more introductory
>> text, maybe):
>> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Category:Tablets
>>
>> If you don't like this design, we could have a dedicated page instead,
>> but the list of articles will need manual updating in this case.
>
> I guess let's drop this category stuff then. My main idea was that if a
> program uses a toolkit and the tablet works then probably it is going to
> work in other applications using the same toolkit too. And if a toolkit
> does not support the tablet then none of the applications will work with
> the tablet (see QT).

I think we can achieve similar effect with just notes and links to the bug.
Still, we'll need a page listing all the application-specific instructions.

>> 3. There are some small English mistakes and minor style issues. If
>> you don't mind, I can fix them in place. I'll try to group the changes
>> so that it is easier for you to review. Maybe Dave would be able to go
>> through and further improve them after my fixes.
>
> OK, thanks. But I guess that should be done after the content has been
> reorganized.

Sure. Thank you :)

Sincerely,
Nick

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...>]

Hi!

I have created separate pages for some applications. I have enhanced the previous content. These are ready for ready for review. :)
Here they are:
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_GIMP
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_MyPaint
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Synfig_Studio
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Inkscape

I guess if you find something to correct with these just go ahead. :)

According to wine (just to be clear):
I do not want to write articles about how to make windows applications work with wine. (I could test only the demo version of those anyway....) I just wanted to check if wine is recognizing my tablet or not. I for that purpose the windows version of gimp was perfect. And it turned out that the tablet itself was not recognized as tablet :(.

Nikolai Kondrashov <sp...@gm...> wrote:
> Tablets and QT>
> (I guess this topic should be created because of the QT bug. Do you have>
> better idea for the title?)>
>
If this page is needed only to describe the issue, and there is no common>
Qt-specific instructions there, then we can simply add a note and a link to>
the bug to all the Qt-based application pages.>

Actually I wanted to create an article how to compile QT with my suggested fix. But that will take time to put it together. So for now maybe the better solution will be to follow your advice and just add a note and a link to the bug on the application pages.

Best wishes:
Viktoria

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Nikolai K. <sp...@gm...>]

On 06/08/2012 01:44 PM, Viktoria S. wrote:
> I have created separate pages for some applications. I have enhanced the previous content. These are ready for ready for review. :)
> Here they are:
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_GIMP
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_MyPaint
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Synfig_Studio
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Inkscape
>
> I guess if you find something to correct with these just go ahead. :)
>
> According to wine (just to be clear):
> I do not want to write articles about how to make windows applications
> work with wine. (I could test only the demo version of those anyway....) I
> just wanted to check if wine is recognizing my tablet or not. I for that
> purpose the windows version of gimp was perfect.

Yes, I guessed that. I think we can skip writing instructions for
Windows-based apps until there is demand for them.

> Actually I wanted to create an article how to compile QT with my suggested
> fix. But that will take time to put it together.

We can put these instructions in the bug comments.

> So for now maybe the better solution will be to follow your advice and
> just add a note and a link to the bug on the application pages.

Thanks :)

I'll postpone correcting English and formatting of the articles until after
the vacation. So, I decided to publish your pages as they are, as it is
better to have information available, even though it might not be ideal in
some regards.

Here are a few general comments on the articles:

1. Could you please format your footnotes with <ref> and <references /> as
    described in the manual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Footnotes ?

2. Please format lists using appropriate syntax:
    http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:List

3. It is better to link from text instead of pasting links directly into the
    article text, as intended for hypertext.

    I.e., please don't write this:

         You can find more information about Alchemy on the
         official website: http://al.chemy.org/.

    But instead this:

         You can find more information about Alchemy on the
         [http://al.chemy.org/ official website].

    This also concerns mailto: links.

4. I assume you don't need the "Tablet setup in GTKMM based applications
    (Inkscape, Synfig Studio)" page anymore. Could you please delete it?

5. I've noticed one mistake which you often do: you write "... does not
    compatible with ...", whereas it should be written "... is not compatible
    with ...", because compatible is an adjective, so describes a property,
    not an action. OTOH, "... does not work ..." is correct.

6. Please use =Heading 1= as the top level header syntax and the
    corresponding lower level syntax for lower level headers, at least for
    the time being. I've fixed this in your articles.

Could you please go through your articles and correct these, when time
allows? Thank you very much for your help!

Oh, and could you please add yourself as a Wiki contributor to the "People"
section on the front page?

Thanks :)

Sincerely,
Nick

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...>]

Hi!

Nikolai Kondrashov <sp...@gm...> írta:
Here are a few general comments on the articles:>
>
1. Could you please format your footnotes with <ref> and <references /> as>
    described in the manual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Footnotes ?>
>

I originally wanted to use this, but there is bug in soueforge wiki: the cite extension does not work. You cannot use this.
See here:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=350001&aid=2752161&group_id=1
I have tried it did not work for me..... That is the reason I did the reference the way I did.

According to the others I do my best to correct the pages the way you have suggested.

Best wishes:
Viktoria

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...>]

Hi!

I have corrected almost everything you have asked.
The problems I have got:
1. As I wrote as far as I know on sourceforge it is not possible.
4. I looked after it I guess I should have seen a delete button at the bottom of the pages, which I didn't so I think I don't have right to delete pages....
6. I did not had to do anything about that did I?

Kind regards:
Viktoria

Nikolai Kondrashov <sp...@gm...> írta:

Here are a few general comments on the articles:>
>
1. Could you please format your footnotes with <ref> and <references /> as>
    described in the manual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Footnotes ?>
>
2. Please format lists using appropriate syntax:>
    http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:List>
>
3. It is better to link from text instead of pasting links directly into the>
    article text, as intended for hypertext.>
>
    I.e., please don't write this:>
>
         You can find more information about Alchemy on the>
         official website: http://al.chemy.org/.>
>
    But instead this:>
>
         You can find more information about Alchemy on the>
         [http://al.chemy.org/ official website].>
>
    This also concerns mailto: links.>
>
4. I assume you don't need the "Tablet setup in GTKMM based applications>
    (Inkscape, Synfig Studio)" page anymore. Could you please delete it?>
>
5. I've noticed one mistake which you often do: you write "... does not>
    compatible with ...", whereas it should be written "... is not compatible>
    with ...", because compatible is an adjective, so describes a property,>
    not an action. OTOH, "... does not work ..." is correct.>
>
6. Please use =Heading 1= as the top level header syntax and the>
    corresponding lower level syntax for lower level headers, at least for>
    the time being. I've fixed this in your articles.>
>
Could you please go through your articles and correct these, when time>
allows? Thank you very much for your help!>
>
Oh, and could you please add yourself as a Wiki contributor to the "People">
section on the front page?>
>
Thanks :)>
>
Sincerely,>
Nick>

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Favux ... <fav...@gm...>]

Hi Viktoria,

As far as I know you are correct.  Page deletion rights are above our
privilege level.  Nick has to delete "Tablet setup in GTKMM based
applications (Inkscape, Synfig Studio)" himself.

Favux

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Nikolai K. <sp...@gm...>]

Hi Viktoria, Dave,

On 06/13/2012 05:19 PM, Favux ... wrote:
> As far as I know you are correct.  Page deletion rights are above our
> privilege level.  Nick has to delete "Tablet setup in GTKMM based
> applications (Inkscape, Synfig Studio)" himself.

Sorry, didn't know that. Removed.

Sincerely,
Nick

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...>]

Hi!

I have created 2 more pages for the wiki:
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Krita
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Alchemy

I guess they are ready for review too :)

Best wishes:
Viktoria

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Favux ... <fav...@gm...>]

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I have created 2 more pages for the wiki:
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Krita
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Alchemy
>
> I guess they are ready for review too :)
>
> Best wishes:
> Viktoria

Wow!

Looking good Vikotria S!  The DIGImend mediawiki is going to be packed
with useful information!

Favux

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...>]

Hi!

I have created the final 2 pages about configuring applications:
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Blender
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Wine

The are ready for review :)

I think now the most popular artistic applications are covered. If someone want to use some other applications and writes about it in the users mailing list then I look after it and write a page about it.

There is one thing I have been thinking about. The Tip, Note and Warning text blocks could be made a bit fancier. I have created some icons for this (with my very amateur artistic skills) and a proposal for those text blocks. See the attached image. What do you think about those? (I am not sure if that can be created in the wiki, but if yes I think it might be worth go for it.)

Best wishes:
Viktoria

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Nikolai K. <sp...@gm...>]

On 06/11/2012 11:10 AM, Viktoria S. wrote:
> I have created the final 2 pages about configuring applications:
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Blender
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_Wine
>
> The are ready for review :)

Thanks :)! I'll do a proper review of these and the rest after the vacation.

> I think now the most popular artistic applications are covered. If someone
> want to use some other applications and writes about it in the users
> mailing list then I look after it and write a page about it.

I agree.

> There is one thing I have been thinking about. The Tip, Note and Warning
> text blocks could be made a bit fancier. I have created some icons for
> this (with my very amateur artistic skills) and a proposal for those text
> blocks. See the attached image. What do you think about those? (I am not
> sure if that can be created in the wiki, but if yes I think it might be
> worth go for it.)

I have several comments about these:

The purpose of such icons is to signify the type of the text block and
nothing else. The icons shouldn't be too distracting and shouldn't take too
much space. Based on this here are my suggestions:

1. Reduce them by about 25%.

2. Reduce the number of colors (shades). Either provide outlines with flat
    filling or maybe use cel shading.

3. Use roughly the same framing across all the icons. I.e. the pen should be
    seen from roughly the same distance in all icons. For example, the "note"
    icon could instead show a close up of the pen tip writing a pair of
    letters.

4. Improve meaning of the "warning" icon - now the picture doesn't really
    spell "warning!" to me. How about showing a pen tip as it is being
    strained, bent or broken from too much pressure? Cartoney "strain" or
    "pain" lines (don't know how they're called by artists, really) along the
    pen would help reinforce the message.

Also, take a look at how the pen tips look on more expensive tablets - maybe
it's better to take them as a model.

Thanks :)!

Sincerely,
Nick

Re: [DIGImend-devel] Wiki editing

[Nikolai K. <sp...@gm...>]

Hi Viktoria,

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Viktoria S. <vik...@fr...> wrote:
> I have finished two pages about how to set up tablets:
> SourceForge.net: Tablet setup in GTK based applications (Gimp, MyPaint) - digimend
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_GTK_based_applications_(Gimp,_MyPaint)
>
> SourceForge.net: Tablet setup in GTKMM based applications (Inkscape, Synfig Studio) - digimend
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Tablet_setup_in_GTKMM_based_applications_(Inkscape,_Synfig_Studio)
>
> It would be great if you could review it and give me some feed back.

They're looking good, thank you! I have already learned a few things
reading just these two pages.
It's good to have someone on the team who actually uses a tablet and
these applications :)

Here are some comments:

1. So far I see little sense in putting application instructions
together based on their toolkit - there is little similarity in the
configuration instructions.

What if we put every application on a separate page? This way, I
think, each article will be more focused and the users won't be
confusing instructions from different applications. We can then have a
category for application HOWTOs, have an introduction on its page and
link to it from the main page. We can additionally have toolkit
categories, if needed.

The category pages would look like this one (with more introductory
text, maybe): https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/digimend/index.php?title=Category:Tablets

If you don't like this design, we could have a dedicated page instead,
but the list of articles will need manual updating in this case.

2. I think each page should have a note saying where to ask questions
not covered by the HOWTO and where to send corrections. The
DIGImend-users maillist is a good place for this, IMHO. Or, maybe
better still, each article should start with an introduction
explaining which application and which versions it covers, pointing to
the maillist for questions and corrections and maybe stating the
author.

3. There are some small English mistakes and minor style issues. If
you don't mind, I can fix them in place. I'll try to group the changes
so that it is easier for you to review. Maybe Dave would be able to go
through and further improve them after my fixes.

4. I would also like you to be the maintainer of these HOWTOs and keep
an eye on them, updating and correcting them as necessary. Can you do
that?

> I create the rest of the pages:
> Qt apllications (Krita, Pencil)
> JPen applications (Alchemy)
> X based applications (Blender, Wine (?))
> later.

It would be awesome if we had all of these :)

Thanks! I would have never had time to do it all myself.

Sincerely,
Nick