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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2008-03-02 22:01:04
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What is the advantage of the VMware modules that come with DL, over running DL in a VM without the modules? Do the included DL VMware modules work with ESX 3.5 and ESX 3i, along with the free VMware server? I seem to recall the VM modules are broken in DL 1.3. Is that still true? (the VM modules build just aborted for me) Anything I can do to help fix it? - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2008-03-02 22:12:58
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> What is the advantage of the VMware modules that come with DL, over > running DL in a VM without the modules? Advantages: Performance (especially the network driver), some better memory management, ability to shut down guest. > Do the included DL VMware modules work with ESX 3.5 and ESX 3i, along > with the free VMware server? Yes they will work on all versions. ESX 3.5 actually supports VMI, which is turned on per default in DL. This should give it a nice performance boost. VMWare Server 2.0 will also support this, but is still in beta (and beta 1 doesn't run very good). > I seem to recall the VM modules are broken in DL 1.3. Is that still > true? (the VM modules build just aborted for me) Anything I can do to > help fix it? No they work now. And we're actually using the opensource version. -- Regards Heiko Zuerker http://www.devil-linux.org |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2008-03-03 00:47:20
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> > What is the advantage of the VMware modules that come with DL, over > > running DL in a VM without the modules? > > Advantages: > Performance (especially the network driver), some better memory > management, ability to shut down guest. > > > Do the included DL VMware modules work with ESX 3.5 and ESX 3i, along > > with the free VMware server? > > Yes they will work on all versions. > ESX 3.5 actually supports VMI, which is turned on per default in DL. This > should give it a nice performance boost. > VMWare Server 2.0 will also support this, but is still in beta (and beta 1 > doesn't run very good). Yeah ... I tried VMserver 2 beta at home and had all kinds of problems getting it running. I ended up going back to version one. It looks like we might be buying ESX at work. I'm running the evaluation now to check it out. I'm leaning toward 3i. > > I seem to recall the VM modules are broken in DL 1.3. Is that still > > true? (the VM modules build just aborted for me) Anything I can do to > > help fix it? > > No they work now. > And we're actually using the opensource version. root:/data/build# scripts/build.sh build opt=vmmemctl mount: proc already mounted mount: none already mounted or /sys busy mount: according to mtab, none is already mounted on /sys executing vmmemctl with option build (in /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only) Using 2.6.x kernel build system. make -C /lib/modules/2.6.24.2/build/include/.. SUBDIRS=$PWD SRCROOT=$PWD/. modules make[1]: Entering directory `/data/build/tmp/linux-2.6.24' CC [M] /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/os.o In file included from /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/os.c:39: /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/compat_wait.h:37:5: warning: "VMW_HAVE_EPOLL" is not defined /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/compat_wait.h:43:5: warning: "VMW_HAVE_EPOLL" is not defined In file included from /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/os.c:39: /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/compat_wait.h:60: error: conflicting types for 'poll_initwait' include/linux/poll.h:65: error: previous declaration of 'poll_initwait' was here make[2]: *** [/data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/os.o] Error 1 make[1]: *** [_module_/data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/data/build/tmp/linux-2.6.24' make: *** [vmmemctl.ko] Error 2 ERROR /data/build/scripts/vmmemctl build failed check log file /data/build/tmp/LOGS/build/vmmemctl for details root:/data/build# Help? :-) - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2008-03-03 01:11:24
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>> > What is the advantage of the VMware modules that come with DL, over >> > running DL in a VM without the modules? >> >> Advantages: >> Performance (especially the network driver), some better memory >> management, ability to shut down guest. >> >> > Do the included DL VMware modules work with ESX 3.5 and ESX 3i, along >> > with the free VMware server? >> >> Yes they will work on all versions. >> ESX 3.5 actually supports VMI, which is turned on per default in DL. >> This >> should give it a nice performance boost. >> VMWare Server 2.0 will also support this, but is still in beta (and beta >> 1 >> doesn't run very good). > > Yeah ... I tried VMserver 2 beta at home and had all kinds of problems > getting it running. I ended up going back to version one. > > It looks like we might be buying ESX at work. I'm running the > evaluation now to check it out. I'm leaning toward 3i. If you're running newer Linux kernels as VMs, make sure the version supports VMI. This will help you a lot. >> > I seem to recall the VM modules are broken in DL 1.3. Is that still >> > true? (the VM modules build just aborted for me) Anything I can do >> to >> > help fix it? >> >> No they work now. >> And we're actually using the opensource version. > > root:/data/build# scripts/build.sh build opt=vmmemctl > mount: proc already mounted > mount: none already mounted or /sys busy > mount: according to mtab, none is already mounted on /sys > > executing vmmemctl with option build (in /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only) > Using 2.6.x kernel build system. > make -C /lib/modules/2.6.24.2/build/include/.. SUBDIRS=$PWD SRCROOT=$PWD/. > modules > make[1]: Entering directory `/data/build/tmp/linux-2.6.24' > CC [M] /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/os.o > In file included from /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/os.c:39: > /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/compat_wait.h:37:5: warning: > "VMW_HAVE_EPOLL" is not defined > /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/compat_wait.h:43:5: warning: > "VMW_HAVE_EPOLL" is not defined > In file included from /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/os.c:39: > /data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/compat_wait.h:60: error: conflicting types > for 'poll_initwait' > include/linux/poll.h:65: error: previous declaration of 'poll_initwait' > was here > make[2]: *** [/data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only/os.o] Error 1 > make[1]: *** [_module_/data/build/tmp/vmmemctl-only] Error 2 > make[1]: Leaving directory `/data/build/tmp/linux-2.6.24' > make: *** [vmmemctl.ko] Error 2 > ERROR > /data/build/scripts/vmmemctl build failed > check log file /data/build/tmp/LOGS/build/vmmemctl for details > root:/data/build# > > > Help? :-) De-Select VMWare and select open-vm-tools in menuconfig. ;-) -- Regards Heiko Zuerker http://www.devil-linux.org |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2008-03-03 01:19:59
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> > It looks like we might be buying ESX at work. I'm running the > > evaluation now to check it out. I'm leaning toward 3i. > > If you're running newer Linux kernels as VMs, make sure the version > supports VMI. This will help you a lot. Is there an easy way to tell? > > ERROR > > /data/build/scripts/vmmemctl build failed > > check log file /data/build/tmp/LOGS/build/vmmemctl for details > > root:/data/build# > > > > Help? :-) > > De-Select VMWare and select open-vm-tools in menuconfig. ;-) root:/data/build# grep VM scripts/configuration/profiles/default CONFIG_LVM2=y CONFIG_VMWARE=y root:/data/build# Maybe we should change the default config too? :-) (yes, I'll do it ...) ;-) - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2008-03-03 02:26:53
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>> > It looks like we might be buying ESX at work. I'm running the >> > evaluation now to check it out. I'm leaning toward 3i. >> >> If you're running newer Linux kernels as VMs, make sure the version >> supports VMI. This will help you a lot. > > Is there an easy way to tell? No, but they will for sure list it in the features. They may either call it VMI or Paravirtualization support. >> > ERROR >> > /data/build/scripts/vmmemctl build failed >> > check log file /data/build/tmp/LOGS/build/vmmemctl for details >> > root:/data/build# >> > >> > Help? :-) >> >> De-Select VMWare and select open-vm-tools in menuconfig. ;-) > > root:/data/build# grep VM scripts/configuration/profiles/default > CONFIG_LVM2=y > CONFIG_VMWARE=y > root:/data/build# > > > Maybe we should change the default config too? :-) > (yes, I'll do it ...) ;-) Good idea, why don't you go ahead and do it? ;-) -- Regards Heiko Zuerker http://www.devil-linux.org |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2008-03-03 02:39:21
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> >> > It looks like we might be buying ESX at work. I'm running the > >> > evaluation now to check it out. I'm leaning toward 3i. > >> > >> If you're running newer Linux kernels as VMs, make sure the version > >> supports VMI. This will help you a lot. > > > > Is there an easy way to tell? > > No, but they will for sure list it in the features. > They may either call it VMI or Paravirtualization support. Do you know if the stock kernels in the newest major distro's have VMI turned on? (OpenSuSE 10.3, CentOS 5.1, Ubuntu 7.10, Redhat 5, ...) > >> De-Select VMWare and select open-vm-tools in menuconfig. ;-) > > > > root:/data/build# grep VM scripts/configuration/profiles/default > > CONFIG_LVM2=y > > CONFIG_VMWARE=y > > root:/data/build# > > > > Maybe we should change the default config too? :-) > > (yes, I'll do it ...) ;-) > > Good idea, why don't you go ahead and do it? ;-) Speaking of the default config, it contains the line: CONFIG_LINUX_POWER_MGMT=ACPI and I can't find any reference to it in build/scripts/* and it's not in my .config -- shall I remove that line too? And the default config has: CONFIG_POPTOP_MPPE_MPPC=n and nothing about that in my .config (same question) - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2008-03-03 03:36:08
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>> >> > It looks like we might be buying ESX at work. I'm running the >> >> > evaluation now to check it out. I'm leaning toward 3i. >> >> >> >> If you're running newer Linux kernels as VMs, make sure the version >> >> supports VMI. This will help you a lot. >> > >> > Is there an easy way to tell? >> >> No, but they will for sure list it in the features. >> They may either call it VMI or Paravirtualization support. > > Do you know if the stock kernels in the newest major distro's have VMI > turned on? (OpenSuSE 10.3, CentOS 5.1, Ubuntu 7.10, Redhat 5, ...) No idea. You'll have to boot them up and then look in dmesg if you can find anything. I think the message is being displayed fairly early. >> >> De-Select VMWare and select open-vm-tools in menuconfig. ;-) >> > >> > root:/data/build# grep VM scripts/configuration/profiles/default >> > CONFIG_LVM2=y >> > CONFIG_VMWARE=y >> > root:/data/build# >> > >> > Maybe we should change the default config too? :-) >> > (yes, I'll do it ...) ;-) >> >> Good idea, why don't you go ahead and do it? ;-) > > Speaking of the default config, it contains the line: > CONFIG_LINUX_POWER_MGMT=ACPI > and I can't find any reference to it in build/scripts/* > and it's not in my .config -- shall I remove that line too? Yeah > And the default config has: > CONFIG_POPTOP_MPPE_MPPC=n > and nothing about that in my .config (same question) Yeah, too. -- Regards Heiko Zuerker http://www.devil-linux.org |
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From: Bruce S. <br...@ar...> - 2008-03-03 13:38:46
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> > What is the advantage of the VMware modules that come with DL, over > > running DL in a VM without the modules? > > Advantages: > Performance (especially the network driver), Do I use the VMware module as the NIC driver (instead of pcnet32), or do I load the module along with pcnet32? > some better memory management, Does the hypervisor only take the memory that the guest is actually using, instead of the entire amount reserved for the guest OS? Only with the module loaded? > ability to shut down guest. I ran "shutdown -h" without the modules and it shut down fine. ;-) - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2008-03-03 13:42:03
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>> > What is the advantage of the VMware modules that come with DL, over >> > running DL in a VM without the modules? >> >> Advantages: >> Performance (especially the network driver), > > Do I use the VMware module as the NIC driver (instead of pcnet32), > or do I load the module along with pcnet32? You use vmxnet instead of pcnet32. If you use a 64 bit guest OS, then the driver has to be the e1000. >> some better memory management, > > Does the hypervisor only take the memory that the guest is actually > using, instead of the entire amount reserved for the guest OS? > Only with the module loaded? I'm not 100% sure, but I think the module plays a key role. There are various parameters you can set for the over commit. I'm not too familiar with the ESX server, I use the free one at home. >> ability to shut down guest. > > I ran "shutdown -h" without the modules and it shut down fine. ;-) ****response censored**** -- Regards Heiko Zuerker http://www.devil-linux.org |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2008-03-03 14:02:55
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> >> > What is the advantage of the VMware modules that come with DL, over > >> > running DL in a VM without the modules? > >> > >> Advantages: > >> Performance (especially the network driver), > > > > Do I use the VMware module as the NIC driver (instead of pcnet32), > > or do I load the module along with pcnet32? > > You use vmxnet instead of pcnet32. OK. > If you use a 64 bit guest OS, then the driver has to be the e1000. vmxnet doesn't work on a 64 bit guest? > >> some better memory management, > > > > Does the hypervisor only take the memory that the guest is actually > > using, instead of the entire amount reserved for the guest OS? > > Only with the module loaded? > > I'm not 100% sure, but I think the module plays a key role. > There are various parameters you can set for the over commit. Parameters to the module load? > I'm not too familiar with the ESX server, Me neither, except for the couple days I spent playing with the eval. During the ESX 3.5 install, I saw Linux kernel messages run by, and the install screens looked a whole lot like the standard Redhat install screens, with the Redhat logo replaced by the VMware logo. After ESX installed, I saw more Linux kernel messages during the boot, and I logged into the console as root and confirmed I was running Linux with a 2.4 kernel, and VMware services were running. ESX 3i is different, as all traces of Linux, or any underlying OS, are gone (or hidden). It claims to be much smaller and it appears like the hypervisor is running directly on the hardware without the Linux layer. Some of the fancy (expensive) VMware features aren't supported with 3i, but IMO it's more secure and less overhead. I'm leaning toward buying 3i for work after evaluating both. My major complaint with both versions of ESX is the client (required to manage the hypervisor and the guest OS's) is Windows only. Yuck! And the VMware infrastructure software (expensive features we're not buying now) requires a standalone Windows server running a SQL-server or Oracle database! Triple Yuck!!! > I use the free one at home. Me too! :-) - BS |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2008-03-04 00:40:26
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> Bruce, > start with > http://www.vmware.com/technology/virtual-networking/networking-basics.html > continue with > http://www.vmware.com/files/pdf/virtual_networking_concepts.pdf Thanks, I will ... tomorrow. :-) > >> I'm not too familiar with the ESX server, > > > > Me neither, except for the couple days I spent playing with the eval. > > If you end up working with ESX/VI3, you'll end up knowing it well :-) I have a lot of experience with VMware Workstation and the free VMware server, so ESX isn't that much of a learning curve. Just some different ways of doing the same thing. (not counting stuff like VI3, motion, etc. which we're not going to purchase anyway) > > During the ESX 3.5 install, I saw Linux kernel messages run by, and the > > install screens looked a whole lot like the standard Redhat install > > screens, with the Redhat logo replaced by the VMware logo. > > As documented by VMware, it is RHEL3. (Previous ESX 2.x was RHAS2.1) That surprised me because I had heard (can't remember where) that ESX was more efficient because it eliminated the OS layer. They must have been talking about 3i, because Linux is still there in 3.5. > > Some of the fancy (expensive) VMware features aren't supported with 3i, > > but IMO it's more secure and less overhead. I'm leaning toward buying > > 3i for work after evaluating both. > > How are you going to manage 3i? With the Windows VMware console program - running in XP, which is running in VMware Workstation on my Linux desktop! :-) > "Full ESX 3.5" works standalone, too... Yes, I noticed. I really like 3i because of how small it is and the higher security (less to hack). I only have one server to install this on, so I need to connect one NIC on this server to our internal network and another NIC to our DMZ. I will only allow management from the internal network, and the guest OS's will only have access to one NIC or the other - never both. Because of that I want the most secure hypervisor possible. The possibility of a Linux kernel exploit someday allowing the DMZ to hack into ESX and get at our internal network concerns me. I know it's unlikely, but IMO it's even less likely that 3i will get hacked from the DMZ. > > My major complaint with both versions of ESX is the client (required to > > manage the hypervisor and the guest OS's) is Windows only. Yuck! > > For daily tasks, you get, with the full ESX, WebUI, which includes VM > console, too. It reduces Windows requirement. At least somewhat. Except 3i doesn't support a WebUI, except for browsing the VM filesystem. Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'd love to be wrong! :-) > In my mind VMware made a mistake by going to .net-only management for > ESX3. Sad mistake. They have a PERL API and a few PERL program to do some limited things. Personally I only find the ability to copy files over the network to VMware useful. i.e. I used it to copy my DL bootcd.iso to the VMware server and connect it as the CD drive to some DL guest OS's. - BS |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2008-03-04 13:49:41
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> > Is it possible to take a snapshot of a running guest OS and copy/export > > the disk image to another server for backup? > > Yes. There are several ways to do it. On being your own scripted snapshot > method. Some companies use this method as their primary backup method. > They do not backup the files within the VM at all. Before I can write a script, I need to understand the file structure. For example, following is a directory of a CentOS-5.1 guest OS that I took a couple of snapshots while it was running. What file(s) would be required to backup the latest snapshot? lw3-000001-delta.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 18:11 16803840 lw3-000001.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 18:09 215 lw3-000003-delta.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 19:11 671115264 lw3-000003.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 18:26 248 lw3-499cb83e.vswp 29-Feb-2008 18:12 805306368 lw3-Snapshot1.vmsn 29-Feb-2008 18:07 18482 lw3-Snapshot2.vmsn 29-Feb-2008 18:11 806409071 lw3-flat.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 16:54 12884901888 lw3.nvram 29-Feb-2008 18:12 8684 lw3.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 15:37 393 lw3.vmsd 29-Feb-2008 18:11 815 lw3.vmx 29-Feb-2008 18:23 1633 lw3.vmxf 29-Feb-2008 15:27 258 vmware-1.log 29-Feb-2008 16:54 121364 vmware-2.log 29-Feb-2008 18:12 29777 vmware.log 29-Feb-2008 19:06 56517 > VMware offers Consolidated Backup addon, which is supposed to aid > commercial backup software vendor products in doing (essentially) the > same. IIRC, Consolidated Backup is not an option for 3i. > It is your choice to deside how you do it. Unless I choose 3i. :-) - BS |
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From: Kari M. <kar...@tr...> - 2008-03-05 22:36:51
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Bruce Smith wrote: >>> Is it possible to take a snapshot of a running guest OS and copy/export >>> the disk image to another server for backup? >> Yes. There are several ways to do it. On being your own scripted snapshot >> method. Some companies use this method as their primary backup method. >> They do not backup the files within the VM at all. > > Before I can write a script, I need to understand the file structure. > For example, following is a directory of a CentOS-5.1 guest OS that I > took a couple of snapshots while it was running. > > What file(s) would be required to backup the latest snapshot? You can figure out the snapshot behaviour, and thus files to backup, quite easily by doing 'ls -ltr' before and after lets say three successive snapshots. File timestamps rule here.. vswp file equals memory size of the VM. You shouldn't need to back it up. The 18:11 files below seem to make nice incremental backup set. Personally I try to make things as easy as possible. How? First time backup everything when the VM's power is off. Have a separate file of backed up files; "ls -l > somefile". Next backups will also be full backups, but excluding those very huge flat vmds files. As you see below, everything else is reasonable size, and backed up easily. Include "ls -l > somefile" in all backups. That way, too, you have a kind of time machine in your backups. All you need is the first backup and the last, or any other desired later backup. > lw3-000001-delta.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 18:11 16803840 > lw3-000001.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 18:09 215 > lw3-000003-delta.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 19:11 671115264 > lw3-000003.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 18:26 248 > lw3-499cb83e.vswp 29-Feb-2008 18:12 805306368 > lw3-Snapshot1.vmsn 29-Feb-2008 18:07 18482 > lw3-Snapshot2.vmsn 29-Feb-2008 18:11 806409071 > lw3-flat.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 16:54 12884901888 > lw3.nvram 29-Feb-2008 18:12 8684 > lw3.vmdk 29-Feb-2008 15:37 393 > lw3.vmsd 29-Feb-2008 18:11 815 > lw3.vmx 29-Feb-2008 18:23 1633 > lw3.vmxf 29-Feb-2008 15:27 258 > vmware-1.log 29-Feb-2008 16:54 121364 > vmware-2.log 29-Feb-2008 18:12 29777 > vmware.log 29-Feb-2008 19:06 56517 > > >> VMware offers Consolidated Backup addon, which is supposed to aid >> commercial backup software vendor products in doing (essentially) the >> same. > > IIRC, Consolidated Backup is not an option for 3i. > >> It is your choice to deside how you do it. > > Unless I choose 3i. :-) True again.. > - BS > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Devil-linux-discuss mailing list > Dev...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/devil-linux-discuss > -- -- Kari Mattsson | Trivore Corp. | +358-50-69000 | http://trivore.com/ |
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From: Serge L. <fi...@in...> - 2008-03-03 08:54:16
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Hi, Bruce Smith wrote: > And the default config has: > CONFIG_POPTOP_MPPE_MPPC=n > and nothing about that in my .config (same question) > It's my addition. Basically there are 2 reason to have it disabled: 1) possible legal difficulties 2) now it doesn't work with kernel 2.6.24.x (only with 2.6.23.x). -- Sincerely, Serge Leschinsky |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2008-03-03 13:33:57
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> > And the default config has: > > CONFIG_POPTOP_MPPE_MPPC=n > > and nothing about that in my .config (same question) > > > It's my addition. Basically there are 2 reason to have it disabled: > 1) possible legal difficulties > 2) now it doesn't work with kernel 2.6.24.x (only with 2.6.23.x). I'll leave that one alone. It doesn't hurt anything set to "n". - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2008-03-03 14:20:35
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>> >> > What is the advantage of the VMware modules that come with DL, over >> >> > running DL in a VM without the modules? >> >> >> >> Advantages: >> >> Performance (especially the network driver), >> > >> > Do I use the VMware module as the NIC driver (instead of pcnet32), >> > or do I load the module along with pcnet32? >> >> You use vmxnet instead of pcnet32. > > OK. > >> If you use a 64 bit guest OS, then the driver has to be the e1000. > > vmxnet doesn't work on a 64 bit guest? Correct. >> >> some better memory management, >> > >> > Does the hypervisor only take the memory that the guest is actually >> > using, instead of the entire amount reserved for the guest OS? >> > Only with the module loaded? >> >> I'm not 100% sure, but I think the module plays a key role. >> There are various parameters you can set for the over commit. > > Parameters to the module load? None necessary. You control everything either on a global vmware level or on a per-VM basis (the VM specific config). >> I'm not too familiar with the ESX server, > > Me neither, except for the couple days I spent playing with the eval. > > During the ESX 3.5 install, I saw Linux kernel messages run by, and the > install screens looked a whole lot like the standard Redhat install > screens, with the Redhat logo replaced by the VMware logo. Yes it's based on Redhat, but optimized for vmware. > After ESX installed, I saw more Linux kernel messages during the boot, > and I logged into the console as root and confirmed I was running Linux > with a 2.4 kernel, and VMware services were running. I thought it was an older 2.6 kernel.... > ESX 3i is different, as all traces of Linux, or any underlying OS, are > gone (or hidden). It claims to be much smaller and it appears like the > hypervisor is running directly on the hardware without the Linux layer. Yeah I'm not familiar with 3i. > Some of the fancy (expensive) VMware features aren't supported with 3i, > but IMO it's more secure and less overhead. I'm leaning toward buying > 3i for work after evaluating both. > > My major complaint with both versions of ESX is the client (required to > manage the hypervisor and the guest OS's) is Windows only. Yuck! Doesn't the webinterface have a java version? > And the VMware infrastructure software (expensive features we're not > buying now) requires a standalone Windows server running a SQL-server or > Oracle database! Triple Yuck!!! > >> I use the free one at home. > > Me too! :-) > -- Regards Heiko Zuerker http://www.devil-linux.org |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2008-03-03 16:00:40
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> > After ESX installed, I saw more Linux kernel messages during the boot, > > and I logged into the console as root and confirmed I was running Linux > > with a 2.4 kernel, and VMware services were running. > > I thought it was an older 2.6 kernel.... 2.4.21. I don't have it installed right now, so I just looked at the CD to double check. -r--r--r-- 1 root root 42316296 2008-02-16 05:59 kernel-source-2.4.21-47.0.1.EL.64607.i386.rpm -r--r--r-- 1 root root 7639785 2008-02-16 05:59 kernel-vmnix-2.4.21-47.0.1.EL.64607.i686.rpm > > ESX 3i is different, as all traces of Linux, or any underlying OS, are > > gone (or hidden). It claims to be much smaller and it appears like the > > hypervisor is running directly on the hardware without the Linux layer. > > Yeah I'm not familiar with 3i. Quote from http://www.vmware.com/products/vi/esx/esx3i.html "ESX Server 3i is the only hypervisor that does not incorporate or rely on a general-purpose operating system (OS), eliminating many common reliability issues and security vulnerabilities. The slim 32MB footprint of ESX Server 3i is a fraction of the size of a general-purpose operating system, resulting in a smaller attack surface while minimizing the effort required for tasks such as security hardening, user access control, anti-virus and backup. ......." I am impressed with 3i (except for the Windows-only client requirement). It's also cheaper than ESX 3.5. > > Some of the fancy (expensive) VMware features aren't supported with 3i, > > but IMO it's more secure and less overhead. I'm leaning toward buying > > 3i for work after evaluating both. > > > > My major complaint with both versions of ESX is the client (required to > > manage the hypervisor and the guest OS's) is Windows only. Yuck! > > Doesn't the webinterface have a java version? With ESX 3.5 you can do some things from a browser, but not everything. IIRC, you can manage most of the guest OS stuff from a browser but you can't config the server itself. And I'm not sure it is java because I had to install a Linux Firefox plugin from VMware to make it work. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a Mac version of the FF plugin. With ESX 3i, almost nothing that can be done from a browser. For both, you need the client to do some things, more so with 3i. - BS |
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From: Bruce S. <br...@ar...> - 2008-03-03 19:15:55
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> >> Advantages: > >> Performance (especially the network driver), > >> some better memory management, Is there any way to get the mouse to move out of the window without having to press CTRL-ALT. I'm guessing not, since it seems like X-Windows is required for that to work. (but it can't hurt to ask :) Right now, I've got two modules loaded, and a couple processes running: vmmemctl 10076 0 vmxnet 17792 0 root 908 2 0 13:52 ? 00:00:00 [vmmemctl] root 1498 1 0 13:52 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/vmware-guestd --background /var/run/vmware-guestd.pid Is that everything??? - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2008-03-03 19:19:32
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>> >> Advantages: >> >> Performance (especially the network driver), >> >> some better memory management, > > Is there any way to get the mouse to move out of the window without > having to press CTRL-ALT. I'm guessing not, since it seems like > X-Windows is required for that to work. (but it can't hurt to ask :) Nope, X and the VMware mouse driver. > Right now, I've got two modules loaded, and a couple processes running: > > vmmemctl 10076 0 > vmxnet 17792 0 > > root 908 2 0 13:52 ? 00:00:00 [vmmemctl] > root 1498 1 0 13:52 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/vmware-guestd > --background /var/run/vmware-guestd.pid > > Is that everything??? Yeap that's it. But I'm sure we can find something else to start if you want more. ;-) -- Regards Heiko Zuerker http://www.devil-linux.org |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2008-03-03 19:36:15
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> > Right now, I've got two modules loaded, and a couple processes running: > > Is that everything??? > > Yeap that's it. Cool. > But I'm sure we can find something else to start if you want more. ;-) Nah, I already have BIND and SSHD running on it! I wouldn't want to overload my little dual quad core 3.0Ghz Xeon (eight cores), 32GB mem, 1TB SCSI RAID, VMware 3i server ... ;-) BTW, my little DL 1.3 guest OS seems to run pretty fast on that box! (the only guest OS I currently have running) I'm thinking about loading OpenSuSE on that box and copying over my DL build environment to see how fast I can run a complete compile. How stable are the "Parallel [Compile] Jobs" options now? I quit setting those to anything greater than one a LONG time ago because of random aborts. Any clue what value I should give them for max speed? - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2008-03-03 20:36:38
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>> > Right now, I've got two modules loaded, and a couple processes >> running: >> > Is that everything??? >> >> Yeap that's it. > > Cool. > >> But I'm sure we can find something else to start if you want more. ;-) > > Nah, I already have BIND and SSHD running on it! > I wouldn't want to overload my little dual quad core 3.0Ghz Xeon > (eight cores), 32GB mem, 1TB SCSI RAID, VMware 3i server ... ;-) > > BTW, my little DL 1.3 guest OS seems to run pretty fast on that box! > (the only guest OS I currently have running) > > I'm thinking about loading OpenSuSE on that box and copying over my DL > build environment to see how fast I can run a complete compile. > > How stable are the "Parallel [Compile] Jobs" options now? I quit > setting those to anything greater than one a LONG time ago because of > random aborts. Any clue what value I should give them for max speed? I use a "Parallel Compile Jobs" of 2 or 3, depending how I feel on that day. I'm running that on a dual core machine. There are still some issues sometimes, but simply continuing the compile often fixes it. It may be better now, since I did a few changes last week. Unfortunately I didn't have any time to do a couple of test compiles with various settings. I don't use the "Parallel Jobs" one, since that's the one which causes most issues. Maybe somebody, someday, has enough time to get it figured out. -- Regards Heiko Zuerker http://www.devil-linux.org |
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From: Bruce S. <br...@ar...> - 2008-03-04 14:11:40
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> I use a "Parallel Compile Jobs" of 2 or 3, depending how I feel on that day.
As a test, I compiled DL 1.3 on a VM. The difference in elapsed time
was not as great as I expected.
My desktop is a Intel 2.8 HT with 1GB memory. The compile took 8.6
hours ("time make unpack prepare build install iso dist").
I gave 4GB of memory and (4) 3.0Ghz Xeon CPU's to the Guest VM OS.
I increased "Parallel Compile Jobs" from 1 to 5 and timed it again.
With no other guests running, that timed compile took 7.75 hours.
I expected the VM to compile much faster.
FWIW, my desktop OS is Ubuntu 7.10, the VM OS is CentOS 5.1.
Now I'm curious what my home 2.33 Core 2 duo w/ SuSE 10.3 will do...
- BS
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From: Kari M. <kar...@tr...> - 2008-03-03 22:44:32
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Bruce Smith wrote: >>>>> What is the advantage of the VMware modules that come with DL, over >>>>> running DL in a VM without the modules? >>>> Advantages: >>>> Performance (especially the network driver), >>> Do I use the VMware module as the NIC driver (instead of pcnet32), >>> or do I load the module along with pcnet32? >> You use vmxnet instead of pcnet32. > > OK. > >> If you use a 64 bit guest OS, then the driver has to be the e1000. > > vmxnet doesn't work on a 64 bit guest? Bruce, start with http://www.vmware.com/technology/virtual-networking/networking-basics.html continue with http://www.vmware.com/files/pdf/virtual_networking_concepts.pdf ...and the flexible you see with v3.5.x is just that. ESX automagically chooses the best for you. Both depending on what drivers you have loaded, and what capabilities the Guest OS has. >>>> some better memory management, >>> Does the hypervisor only take the memory that the guest is actually >>> using, instead of the entire amount reserved for the guest OS? >>> Only with the module loaded? >> I'm not 100% sure, but I think the module plays a key role. >> There are various parameters you can set for the over commit. > > Parameters to the module load? > >> I'm not too familiar with the ESX server, > > Me neither, except for the couple days I spent playing with the eval. If you end up working with ESX/VI3, you'll end up knowing it well :-) > During the ESX 3.5 install, I saw Linux kernel messages run by, and the > install screens looked a whole lot like the standard Redhat install > screens, with the Redhat logo replaced by the VMware logo. As documented by VMware, it is RHEL3. (Previous ESX 2.x was RHAS2.1) > After ESX installed, I saw more Linux kernel messages during the boot, > and I logged into the console as root and confirmed I was running Linux > with a 2.4 kernel, and VMware services were running. Actually, the Linux, Service Console, is at that time running as a VM inside vmkernel. It kind of "turns the glass upside down" during startup. It is a special VM with access to management, hardware, etc. > ESX 3i is different, as all traces of Linux, or any underlying OS, are > gone (or hidden). It claims to be much smaller and it appears like the > hypervisor is running directly on the hardware without the Linux layer. > > Some of the fancy (expensive) VMware features aren't supported with 3i, > but IMO it's more secure and less overhead. I'm leaning toward buying > 3i for work after evaluating both. How are you going to manage 3i? "Full ESX 3.5" works standalone, too... > My major complaint with both versions of ESX is the client (required to > manage the hypervisor and the guest OS's) is Windows only. Yuck! For daily tasks, you get, with the full ESX, WebUI, which includes VM console, too. It reduces Windows requirement. At least somewhat. In my mind VMware made a mistake by going to .net-only management for ESX3. Sad mistake. > And the VMware infrastructure software (expensive features we're not > buying now) requires a standalone Windows server running a SQL-server or > Oracle database! Triple Yuck!!! You can use the built-in, or free editions of those, but yes, I understand.. Choosing Windows could only be a marketing decision.. Sad. Again. (Guess who's advertising in the sig below..) //Kari M >> I use the free one at home. > > Me too! :-) > > - BS > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Devil-linux-discuss mailing list > Dev...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/devil-linux-discuss |
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From: Kari M. <kar...@tr...> - 2008-03-04 01:48:20
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Bruce Smith wrote: >> Bruce, >> start with >> http://www.vmware.com/technology/virtual-networking/networking-basics.html >> continue with >> http://www.vmware.com/files/pdf/virtual_networking_concepts.pdf > > Thanks, I will ... tomorrow. :-) > >>>> I'm not too familiar with the ESX server, >>> Me neither, except for the couple days I spent playing with the eval. >> If you end up working with ESX/VI3, you'll end up knowing it well :-) > > I have a lot of experience with VMware Workstation and the free VMware > server, so ESX isn't that much of a learning curve. Just some different > ways of doing the same thing. (not counting stuff like VI3, motion, > etc. which we're not going to purchase anyway) Yes. Many don't need those, at least initially. >>> During the ESX 3.5 install, I saw Linux kernel messages run by, and the >>> install screens looked a whole lot like the standard Redhat install >>> screens, with the Redhat logo replaced by the VMware logo. >> As documented by VMware, it is RHEL3. (Previous ESX 2.x was RHAS2.1) > > That surprised me because I had heard (can't remember where) that ESX > was more efficient because it eliminated the OS layer. They must have > been talking about 3i, because Linux is still there in 3.5. Eh. Naming is weird here. All three edition are at version 3.5.0 now. "Classic", 3i embedded, and 3i installable. The last one being 3i, which you can install into HD. enbedded will basically be a flash memory edition directly from server vendor. Only one has Redhat Service Console. It is excellent because you can run Perl etc. there. 3i needed a new approach... >>> Some of the fancy (expensive) VMware features aren't supported with 3i, >>> but IMO it's more secure and less overhead. I'm leaning toward buying >>> 3i for work after evaluating both. >> How are you going to manage 3i? > > With the Windows VMware console program - running in XP, which is > running in VMware Workstation on my Linux desktop! :-) > >> "Full ESX 3.5" works standalone, too... > > Yes, I noticed. > > I really like 3i because of how small it is and the higher security > (less to hack). Implicit, obvious, very good. > I only have one server to install this on, so I need to connect one NIC > on this server to our internal network and another NIC to our DMZ. I > will only allow management from the internal network, and the guest OS's > will only have access to one NIC or the other - never both. Except when you deploy DL firewall ;-) We've been running DL firewall with 4 NICs since 1.2 RC something. Works perfect. Because of > that I want the most secure hypervisor possible. The possibility of a > Linux kernel exploit someday allowing the DMZ to hack into ESX and get > at our internal network concerns me. I know it's unlikely, but IMO it's > even less likely that 3i will get hacked from the DMZ. True.. >>> My major complaint with both versions of ESX is the client (required to >>> manage the hypervisor and the guest OS's) is Windows only. Yuck! >> For daily tasks, you get, with the full ESX, WebUI, which includes VM >> console, too. It reduces Windows requirement. At least somewhat. > > Except 3i doesn't support a WebUI, except for browsing the VM > filesystem. Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'd love to be wrong! :-) You are not wrong, but check this: http://www.vm-help.com/esx/esx3i/Import_RCLI_Appliance.html You are supposed to import a Debian based VM and execute it. It work with any ESX 3.5 edition. In that VM (RCLI, remote CLI) you can do management scripting etc. There are even things you can only do with this appliance/VM, like storage Vmotion. So even Virtual Center Windows guys/gals need this. >> In my mind VMware made a mistake by going to .net-only management for >> ESX3. Sad mistake. > > They have a PERL API and a few PERL program to do some limited things. Oh no. You can do anything with those APIs. They have at least Java and I think C#, too, as languages. For high end, look for VI Perl Toolkit. With that you can even do full site disaster recovery programming. Been there... But, it was daily management/monitoring I was meaning in my previous comment. > Personally I only find the ability to copy files over the network to > VMware useful. i.e. I used it to copy my DL bootcd.iso to the VMware > server and connect it as the CD drive to some DL guest OS's. With ESX 3.x I find actually very little need for Service Console. So 3i is very appealing. It was different during pre-3.0 era. Very different. > - BS > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Devil-linux-discuss mailing list > Dev...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/devil-linux-discuss > |
