devil-linux-develop

[Devil-linux-develop] Update in boot process.

[Bruce S. <bw...@re...>]

I just uploaded changes to CVS that allows DL to create a default
configuration for you.  If during the boot, DL finds an empty floppy in
the drive, it now asks permission to copy the default etc tar file to
the floppy.  It also gives you the option to probe for SCSI controllers
in case your CD drive is on a SCSI chain.

This simplifies a new DL install.  Instead of having to create the
floppy manually, now just boot the first time with a blank/formatted
floppy in the drive, and answer the questions.

Existing installations (that already have a good config on floppy) will
not notice any difference.

Before building a new ISO, you must create a new etc directory.  If you
don't want to start over with a "make mrproper", do this:

  rm tmp/.done_install_015_create_etc tmp/.done_iso_100_build-iso
  make install
  make iso

and test out my new changes!  :-)

 - BS

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] Update in boot process.

[John v. V. <joh...@ya...>]

Hi,

Congratulations on becoming a core developer.

The optional boot process can take a lot of turns all of which, except yours,
dilute security and make DL dependent on some external source.

The method I created in my eLSD version of DL simply finds no floppy and boots
w/o it requiring manual configuration manual input.

At the end of the day, there are a huge number of boot options.  The most
interesting is a net config, most simply where it gets /etc from an https
server.

The most important part of the boot process is configuring the network card. 
To do this successfully, the PCI ether recognition process will have to be as
sophisticated as Knoppix.

Knoppix uses Anaconda where the detection subset is Libhardware.  The question
is, "where should this happen in the boot process?"  All the ethernet modules
will have to be in the distro in such a place that the boot kernel can find
them.

Initrd should be kept as small as possible since it requires size configuration
in the kernel.

This is why I am tending towards a whole new build, where the majority of the
process occurs in a boot kernel built under uClibc.

One problem I have found, say with busybox, is that the init process guides you
to the tradioinal boot sometimes locking you into a process that the BB group
has determined is desireable, mostly for utility/setup linuxes.

the LinuxBIOS folks are using uClibc linux and offer a reboot process called
kexec.  The word "monte" also appears on their lists as well.

I am trying to do recall on the whole thing, but my conclusion has been to
restart with a whole new Linux and to build it in BOCHS rather than VMWare to
keep it a fully open source project.

BOCHS seems to do compression very poorly, but then decompressing images also
slows down the DL boot process.

LinuxBIOS, by comparison boots in 3 seconds.  But.. you have to have a kernel
hacked for the specfic hardware.  None the less, I think the rest of the
LinuxBIOS suite is desirable for a future DL.

GRUB, PartEd and LVM would benefit from uClibc compiling as well to help make a
HD version of DL.  My vision of this is to have Linux boot in Initrd or VFS and
do a complete check on the disks before using any of them.  Traditional Linux
boots from the root disk, of course, in read only and then goes through the
familiar fsck process and dropout to a single user shell.
 
I am presently insanely busy trying to: find a job, get college started, and
flesh out my dream of bring DL type linuxes a focus for the UNESCO WSIS
conferences coming up soon.

John


--- Bruce Smith <bw...@re...> wrote:
> I just uploaded changes to CVS that allows DL to create a default
> configuration for you.  If during the boot, DL finds an empty floppy in
> the drive, it now asks permission to copy the default etc tar file to
> the floppy.  It also gives you the option to probe for SCSI controllers
> in case your CD drive is on a SCSI chain.
> 
> This simplifies a new DL install.  Instead of having to create the
> floppy manually, now just boot the first time with a blank/formatted
> floppy in the drive, and answer the questions.
> 
> Existing installations (that already have a good config on floppy) will
> not notice any difference.
> 
> Before building a new ISO, you must create a new etc directory.  If you
> don't want to start over with a "make mrproper", do this:
> 
>   rm tmp/.done_install_015_create_etc tmp/.done_iso_100_build-iso
>   make install
>   make iso
> 
> and test out my new changes!  :-)
> 
>  - BS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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=====
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Re: [Devil-linux-develop] Update in boot process.

[Friedrich L. <fl...@fl...>]

John van V. wrote:
> The optional boot process can take a lot of turns all of which, except yours,
> dilute security and make DL dependent on some external source.
> 
> The method I created in my eLSD version of DL simply finds no floppy and boots
> w/o it requiring manual configuration manual input.
> 
> At the end of the day, there are a huge number of boot options.  The most
> interesting is a net config, most simply where it gets /etc from an https
> server.
> 
> The most important part of the boot process is configuring the network card. 
> To do this successfully, the PCI ether recognition process will have to be as
> sophisticated as Knoppix.
> 
> Knoppix uses Anaconda where the detection subset is Libhardware.  The question
> is, "where should this happen in the boot process?"  All the ethernet modules
> will have to be in the distro in such a place that the boot kernel can find
> them.

Is this just planned or do you have anything working right now?
Because we are restructuring things quite heavly now might be time
to post your stuff to get it integrated before changes are too
big which might complicate adapting your stuff.


> Initrd should be kept as small as possible since it requires size configuration
> in the kernel.

That's true but we only need a minimal system ramdisk that creates a ramdisk,
loads the needed drivers to access the cdrom, loads stuff from there and
finaly the whole system boots.

> This is why I am tending towards a whole new build, where the majority of the
> process occurs in a boot kernel built under uClibc.

I guess this will have to wait for 2.6 and its initramfs.


> One problem I have found, say with busybox, is that the init process guides you
> to the tradioinal boot sometimes locking you into a process that the BB group
> has determined is desireable, mostly for utility/setup linuxes.

Sorry I don't understand what you are talking about.


> the LinuxBIOS folks are using uClibc linux and offer a reboot process called
> kexec.  The word "monte" also appears on their lists as well.

Yes I know of two-kernel-monte but that does not actually work for 2.4
anymore. uClinux is actually kernel 2.0. But that's embedded stuff.
And kexec I think is for kernel 2.5/2.6.


> I am trying to do recall on the whole thing, but my conclusion has been to
> restart with a whole new Linux and to build it in BOCHS rather than VMWare to
> keep it a fully open source project.
> 
> BOCHS seems to do compression very poorly, but then decompressing images also
> slows down the DL boot process.
> 
> LinuxBIOS, by comparison boots in 3 seconds.  But.. you have to have a kernel
> hacked for the specfic hardware.  None the less, I think the rest of the
> LinuxBIOS suite is desirable for a future DL.
> 
> GRUB, PartEd and LVM would benefit from uClibc compiling as well to help make a
> HD version of DL.  My vision of this is to have Linux boot in Initrd or VFS and
> do a complete check on the disks before using any of them.  Traditional Linux
> boots from the root disk, of course, in read only and then goes through the
> familiar fsck process and dropout to a single user shell.

For me the uClibc and initramfs stuff will have to wait for kernel 2.6.
For kernel 2.4 we'll have to live with the current schema but we'll
for sure will try to optimize that.


> I am presently insanely busy trying to: find a job, get college started, and
> flesh out my dream of bring DL type linuxes a focus for the UNESCO WSIS
> conferences coming up soon.

I wish you the best.

-- 
MfG / Regards
Friedrich Lobenstock
____________________________________________________________________
Friedrich Lobenstock                       Linux Services Lobenstock
URL: http://www.lsl.at/                         Email: fl...@fl...
____________________________________________________________________

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] Update in boot process.

[Bruce S. <bw...@ar...>]

> Congratulations on becoming a core developer.

Thanks!

> The optional boot process can take a lot of turns all of which, except yours,
> dilute security and make DL dependent on some external source.
> 
> The method I created in my eLSD version of DL simply finds no floppy and boots
> w/o it requiring manual configuration manual input.

That is the next project I'm going to work on (manual configuration).

My plan is to start out with something fairly simple, to get it working
ASAP.  Later on we can enhance it, add functionality, pretty it up, etc.

My goal is to make DL usable by someone who does not know much about
Linux (as a firewall, for home or SOHO).

I'm not talking about the old guy down the street who has never touched
a computer in his life (at least not to start with).  My original target
audience is is someone who is computer savvy, but hasn't used Linux.

With that in mind, I'm trying to create a script that a Windows admin
can use to configure Linux with a few simple instructions, without
actually knowing Linux.  (he won't need to know VI, config file formats,
or command line usage - other than typing my script name)

> The most important part of the boot process is configuring the network card. 
> To do this successfully, the PCI ether recognition process will have to be as
> sophisticated as Knoppix.

That's going to be the toughest part of my script.

Currently I have a script written that will edit the two files:
/etc/sysconfig/[software,config]   It's not fancy, but it works.
A lot of Q&A, like the kernel "make config".

Speaking of my scripts, is it permissible to post them to this mailing
list for people to comment on, or should I upload them somewhere
(where?), and post a URL?  They are small, but I know some lists strip
attachments, and/or they are not permitted.  (I'm still new here :)

> Knoppix uses Anaconda where the detection subset is Libhardware.  The question
> is, "where should this happen in the boot process?"  All the ethernet modules
> will have to be in the distro in such a place that the boot kernel can find
> them.

Do you have something working now, that I can use?

- BS