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From: Bruce S. <br...@ar...> - 2003-05-17 21:22:25
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I've said before that it'd be nice to have some kind of a web based configuration program for DL. It's a good idea, but that will take a lot of work. How about something simpler in the mean time? Being heavily involved in my local LUG, I see a LOT of novices who want to get started with Linux. A lot of these people would like a firewall at home, but Devil Linux is not for the novice user. i.e. Creating an iptables script is above their heads. How about a (simple?) improvement that would allow Devil Linux to work "out of the box" (no configuration) for many broadband users? User Requirements: o Broadband (cable/DSL) with Ethernet connection w/NO authorization, which gets IP from ISP via DHCP. This covers MANY cases. o Ethernet cables and hub/switch. o PC with 2 NIC's, 64 MB memory, CDROM drive, Floppy drive, etc. Instructions: o Plug one PC NIC into cable/DSL modem, other into HUB. o Download & burn DL ISO. o Insert _BLANK_ FORMATTED floppy. o Set PC to boot from CDROM. o Boot. That's all! (if it doesn't work, reverse Ethernet cables and try again) What would it take for DL to do this? o Simple, default, iptables script that does masquerading. o Simple, default, dhcpd.conf file for a private IP range. o New/default option in /etc/sysconfig/nic/ifcfg-eth[01]: MODULE=probe where it tries a few popular NIC modules. o During boot, if it finds an EMPTY/FORMATTED floppy, it copies the default configuration to the floppy for next boot. If it finds the normal tar'ed etc directory, it uses it as normal. The advanced user would still be able create their own custom configuration on floppy, just like they do now. It wouldn't effect the power user at all. Thoughts? Am I missing anything? - BS |
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From: Friedrich L. <fl...@fl...> - 2003-05-17 21:36:14
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Bruce Smith wrote: > How about a (simple?) improvement that would allow Devil Linux to work > "out of the box" (no configuration) for many broadband users? > > User Requirements: > o Broadband (cable/DSL) with Ethernet connection w/NO authorization, > which gets IP from ISP via DHCP. This covers MANY cases. Sorry, but that might be true for DSL in the US but definitely not for europe. Here you either need PPPoE (PPP over Ethernet), PPPoA (PPP over ATM) or PPTP (Point to Point Tunneling Protocol) to get you hooked upt to the net - of course with authentification. For Cable providers here that's true - maybe not 100% - and they need the computers MAC address for their DHCP server. > o Ethernet cables and hub/switch. > o PC with 2 NIC's, 64 MB memory, CDROM drive, Floppy drive, etc. > > Instructions: > o Plug one PC NIC into cable/DSL modem, other into HUB. > o Download & burn DL ISO. > o Insert _BLANK_ FORMATTED floppy. > o Set PC to boot from CDROM. > o Boot. That's all! > (if it doesn't work, reverse Ethernet cables and try again) > > What would it take for DL to do this? > > o Simple, default, iptables script that does masquerading. > o Simple, default, dhcpd.conf file for a private IP range. > o New/default option in /etc/sysconfig/nic/ifcfg-eth[01]: > MODULE=probe > where it tries a few popular NIC modules. > o During boot, if it finds an EMPTY/FORMATTED floppy, it > copies the default configuration to the floppy for next boot. > If it finds the normal tar'ed etc directory, it uses it as normal. For the cable case it should also print out the MAC address of eth0 so the users can tell his cable provider this one. > > The advanced user would still be able create their own custom > configuration on floppy, just like they do now. It wouldn't effect > the power user at all. > > Thoughts? Am I missing anything? How to detect an empty floppy, it could also just be the case that the current floppy got bad sectors and now we are going to overwrite it. This would need some protection, eg. asking the user for permission to go on. Why not write a simple "create a basic config" script that can be run when there's either no config or a broken one available. -- MfG / Regards Friedrich Lobenstock ____________________________________________________________________ Friedrich Lobenstock Linux Services Lobenstock URL: http://www.lsl.at/ Email: fl...@fl... ____________________________________________________________________ |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2003-05-17 22:21:39
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> > How about a (simple?) improvement that would allow Devil Linux to work > > "out of the box" (no configuration) for many broadband users? > > > > User Requirements: > > o Broadband (cable/DSL) with Ethernet connection w/NO authorization, > > which gets IP from ISP via DHCP. This covers MANY cases. > > Sorry, but that might be true for DSL in the US but definitely > not for europe. Here you either need PPPoE (PPP over Ethernet), > PPPoA (PPP over ATM) or PPTP (Point to Point Tunneling Protocol) > to get you hooked upt to the net - of course with authentification. I hate when that happens. We're not going to be able to satisfy all situations, I'm only suggesting doing the simplest config, to start with. We can build on that later. > For Cable providers here that's true - maybe not 100% - and they > need the computers MAC address for their DHCP server. I don't know about other parts of the world (or even other parts of my country), but the Cable provider at my home uses the MAC address (or some other hardware address) of the cable modem itself. I can switch the Ethernet cable to any PC I have and it works. All I have to do is power cycle the cable modem. However if I switch cable modems, I have to get my ISP to change the number in their system (done that). > > o Ethernet cables and hub/switch. > > o PC with 2 NIC's, 64 MB memory, CDROM drive, Floppy drive, etc. > > > > Instructions: > > o Plug one PC NIC into cable/DSL modem, other into HUB. > > o Download & burn DL ISO. > > o Insert _BLANK_ FORMATTED floppy. > > o Set PC to boot from CDROM. > > o Boot. That's all! > > (if it doesn't work, reverse Ethernet cables and try again) > > > > What would it take for DL to do this? > > > > o Simple, default, iptables script that does masquerading. > > o Simple, default, dhcpd.conf file for a private IP range. > > o New/default option in /etc/sysconfig/nic/ifcfg-eth[01]: > > MODULE=probe > > where it tries a few popular NIC modules. > > o During boot, if it finds an EMPTY/FORMATTED floppy, it > > copies the default configuration to the floppy for next boot. > > If it finds the normal tar'ed etc directory, it uses it as normal. > > For the cable case it should also print out the MAC address of eth0 > so the users can tell his cable provider this one. Sure. > > The advanced user would still be able create their own custom > > configuration on floppy, just like they do now. It wouldn't effect > > the power user at all. > > > > Thoughts? Am I missing anything? > > How to detect an empty floppy, it could also just be the case that > the current floppy got bad sectors and now we are going to overwrite > it. No, I mean a really empty (and formatted) floppy. It mounts clean and no files exist on the floppy at all. I'm not suggesting we format or overwrite anything without confirmation. > This would need some protection, eg. asking the user for > permission to go on. > > Why not write a simple "create a basic config" script that can be > run when there's either no config or a broken one available. That crossed my mind too. It's a good idea for a few other reasons: First it could give the user an option to format a non-empty floppy. (as you said) Second it could ask some basic network info, like accepting static IP information or DHCP about your ISP connection. Third, would also be a good idea to confirm some info about the DHCP server, even if it's only a yes/no answer to if DL should supply the DHCP service. It's not a good idea to add a 2nd DHCP server to an existing network that already has one. :-) And accepting DHCP range numbers, with default values so a newbie can just keep pressing ENTER through the questions, might also be nice. - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2003-05-17 22:45:19
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Friedrich Lobenstock wrote: > Bruce Smith wrote: >> >> The advanced user would still be able create their own custom >> configuration on floppy, just like they do now. It wouldn't effect >> the power user at all. >> >> Thoughts? Am I missing anything? > > > How to detect an empty floppy, it could also just be the case that > the current floppy got bad sectors and now we are going to overwrite > it. This would need some protection, eg. asking the user for > permission to go on. > > Why not write a simple "create a basic config" script that can be > run when there's either no config or a broken one available. I agree with Friedl, it's better to create a basic configuration script. It would be the same functionality, except the user has to start it manually. Heiko |
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From: Friedrich L. <fl...@fl...> - 2003-05-17 22:51:10
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Heiko Zuerker wrote: > Friedrich Lobenstock wrote: > > Bruce Smith wrote: > >> > >> The advanced user would still be able create their own custom > >> configuration on floppy, just like they do now. It wouldn't effect > >> the power user at all. > >> > >> Thoughts? Am I missing anything? > > > > > > How to detect an empty floppy, it could also just be the case that > > the current floppy got bad sectors and now we are going to overwrite > > it. This would need some protection, eg. asking the user for > > permission to go on. > > > > Why not write a simple "create a basic config" script that can be > > run when there's either no config or a broken one available. > > I agree with Friedl, it's better to create a basic configuration script. > It would be the same functionality, except the user has to start it > manually. I also ment to offer the user the option to run this script when devil can not load config from a floppy. So starting it up without a floppy, creating a basic config, booting the system and then writing the config with save_config. -- MfG / Regards Friedrich Lobenstock ____________________________________________________________________ Friedrich Lobenstock Linux Services Lobenstock URL: http://www.lsl.at/ Email: fl...@fl... ____________________________________________________________________ |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2003-05-17 23:13:07
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Friedrich Lobenstock wrote: > Heiko Zuerker wrote: > >> Friedrich Lobenstock wrote: >> > Bruce Smith wrote: >> >> >> >> The advanced user would still be able create their own custom >> >> configuration on floppy, just like they do now. It wouldn't effect >> >> the power user at all. >> >> >> >> Thoughts? Am I missing anything? >> > >> > >> > How to detect an empty floppy, it could also just be the case that >> > the current floppy got bad sectors and now we are going to overwrite >> > it. This would need some protection, eg. asking the user for >> > permission to go on. >> > >> > Why not write a simple "create a basic config" script that can be >> > run when there's either no config or a broken one available. >> >> I agree with Friedl, it's better to create a basic configuration script. >> It would be the same functionality, except the user has to start it >> manually. > > > I also ment to offer the user the option to run this script when > devil can not load config from a floppy. So starting it up without > a floppy, creating a basic config, booting the system and then > writing the config with save_config. Even better, let's do both. Heiko |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2003-05-17 23:31:43
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> > I also ment to offer the user the option to run this script when > > devil can not load config from a floppy. So starting it up without > > a floppy, creating a basic config, booting the system and then > > writing the config with save_config. > > Even better, let's do both. Sounds good. How can I help? Do you want me to run with part or all of it? - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2003-05-18 00:00:24
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Bruce Smith wrote: >>>I also ment to offer the user the option to run this script when >>>devil can not load config from a floppy. So starting it up without >>>a floppy, creating a basic config, booting the system and then >>>writing the config with save_config. >>> >>Even better, let's do both. >> > > Sounds good. How can I help? > Do you want me to run with part or all of it? All of it. ;-) Once there's a working base, we can add our ideas. Heiko |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2003-05-18 00:10:39
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> >>>I also ment to offer the user the option to run this script when > >>>devil can not load config from a floppy. So starting it up without > >>>a floppy, creating a basic config, booting the system and then > >>>writing the config with save_config. > >>> > >>Even better, let's do both. > > > > Sounds good. How can I help? > > Do you want me to run with part or all of it? > > All of it. ;-) I was hoping you'd say that! :-) > Once there's a working base, we can add our ideas. What's the best method of accepting user input during the boot process? I've seen programs you can stick in shell scripts that accept input using a curses screen. Is there any such thing available to DL on boot? Or should I use the boring echo/read standard shell commands? - BS |
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From: Friedrich L. <fl...@fl...> - 2003-05-18 09:35:11
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Bruce Smith wrote: > > What's the best method of accepting user input during the boot process? > I've seen programs you can stick in shell scripts that accept input > using a curses screen. Is there any such thing available to DL on boot? > Or should I use the boring echo/read standard shell commands? If you copy the ncurses stuff to the boot initrd then you've got what you want. PS: vmware is great when it comes to test the boot process. You can just boot of an iso image and the floppy drive is simulated via a floppy image. -- MfG / Regards Friedrich Lobenstock ____________________________________________________________________ Friedrich Lobenstock Linux Services Lobenstock URL: http://www.lsl.at/ Email: fl...@fl... ____________________________________________________________________ |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2003-05-18 13:46:05
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> PS: vmware is great when it comes to test the boot process. You > can just boot of an iso image and the floppy drive is simulated > via a floppy image. I'll do that, thanks for the tip! Speaking of testing, what good is the results of "make dist"? Can that be used for testing some how? -- Thanks, Bruce. |
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From: Friedrich L. <fl...@fl...> - 2003-05-18 14:27:12
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Bruce Smith wrote: >>PS: vmware is great when it comes to test the boot process. You >>can just boot of an iso image and the floppy drive is simulated >>via a floppy image. > > > I'll do that, thanks for the tip! Your welcome. > Speaking of testing, what good is the results of "make dist"? > Can that be used for testing some how? Actually for testing you'd only need to run 'make iso'. Another tip: Put a dos formated disk into drive a: then do dd if=/dev/fd0 of=floppy-image You can mount this mount floppy-image /mnt -o loop cd /mnt rm * (only if floppy was not empty) tar -xvjf /path-to/etc.tar.bz2 cd homedir umount /mnt Now configure vmware to use the bootcd.iso and the floppy-image files as cdrom and floppy drive. For testing you'd usually cd to tmp/ISO/initrdtree and create your scripts there (except for config/etc/initrd/linuxrc, config/etc/initrd/links and tmp/ETC/etc/init.d/functions). Then run 'scripts/build.sh iso' and retest with vmware. Happy hacking! -- MfG / Regards Friedrich Lobenstock ____________________________________________________________________ Friedrich Lobenstock Linux Services Lobenstock URL: http://www.lsl.at/ Email: fl...@fl... ____________________________________________________________________ |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2003-05-18 17:17:37
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> > Speaking of testing, what good is the results of "make dist"? > > Can that be used for testing some how? > > Actually for testing you'd only need to run 'make iso'. Yes, that's what I've been doing. I've been wondering about the purpose of "make dist", and this jogged my memory to ask. I've never even run a "make dist" command. Why would I want to? What's it good for? I'm missing the point again! :-) > Another tip: > Put a dos formated disk into drive a: then do > dd if=/dev/fd0 of=floppy-image > You can mount this > mount floppy-image /mnt -o loop > cd /mnt > rm * (only if floppy was not empty) > tar -xvjf /path-to/etc.tar.bz2 > cd homedir > umount /mnt OK, that creates an _un_tar'ed etc directory in the floppy image, but I thought the boot process wanted /etc tar'ed up? Shouldn't the "tar -xvjf /path-to/etc.tar.bz2" command be: "cp /path-to/etc.tar.bz2 /mnt" instead??? > Now configure vmware to use the bootcd.iso and the floppy-image > files as cdrom and floppy drive. Right. Got 'ya. > For testing you'd usually cd to tmp/ISO/initrdtree and create > your scripts there (except for config/etc/initrd/linuxrc, > config/etc/initrd/links and tmp/ETC/etc/init.d/functions). > > Then run 'scripts/build.sh iso' and retest with vmware. Will do, thanks again! - BS |
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From: Heiko Z. <he...@zu...> - 2003-05-18 22:25:26
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Bruce Smith wrote: >>>>>I also ment to offer the user the option to run this script when >>>>>devil can not load config from a floppy. So starting it up without >>>>>a floppy, creating a basic config, booting the system and then >>>>>writing the config with save_config. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Even better, let's do both. >>>> >>>Sounds good. How can I help? >>>Do you want me to run with part or all of it? >>> >>All of it. ;-) >> > > I was hoping you'd say that! :-) > > >>Once there's a working base, we can add our ideas. >> > > What's the best method of accepting user input during the boot process? > I've seen programs you can stick in shell scripts that accept input > using a curses screen. Is there any such thing available to DL on boot? > Or should I use the boring echo/read standard shell commands? I actually was never looking into that, so echo/read is the only option I know. You probably could leverage the "lxdialog" we use for our "make menuconfig" or something similar. Heiko P.S. going offline now |
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From: Friedrich L. <fl...@fl...> - 2003-05-18 19:36:30
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Bruce Smith wrote: >>Actually for testing you'd only need to run 'make iso'. > > Yes, that's what I've been doing. I've been wondering about > the purpose of "make dist", and this jogged my memory to ask. > > I've never even run a "make dist" command. > Why would I want to? What's it good for? > I'm missing the point again! :-) Just run it and take a look in the dist/ directory afterwards. It's for making the result ready for distribution. Like the stuff you can download from ftp://ftp.devil-linux.org/pub/devel/testing/ >>Another tip: >>Put a dos formated disk into drive a: then do >> dd if=/dev/fd0 of=floppy-image >>You can mount this >> mount floppy-image /mnt -o loop >> cd /mnt >> rm * (only if floppy was not empty) >> tar -xvjf /path-to/etc.tar.bz2 >> cd homedir >> umount /mnt > > > OK, that creates an _un_tar'ed etc directory in the floppy image, > but I thought the boot process wanted /etc tar'ed up? > > Shouldn't the "tar -xvjf /path-to/etc.tar.bz2" command be: > "cp /path-to/etc.tar.bz2 /mnt" instead??? Yes, of course. Must have been a little absent-minded when I wrote that. -- MfG / Regards Friedrich Lobenstock ____________________________________________________________________ Friedrich Lobenstock Linux Services Lobenstock URL: http://www.lsl.at/ Email: fl...@fl... ____________________________________________________________________ |
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From: Bruce S. <bw...@ar...> - 2003-05-18 20:30:15
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> > I've never even run a "make dist" command. > > What's it good for? > > Just run it and take a look in the dist/ directory afterwards. > It's for making the result ready for distribution. Ah, OK. I see now! I was thinking it make something different ... never mind. :-/ > >>Another tip: > >>Put a dos formated disk into drive a: then do > >> dd if=/dev/fd0 of=floppy-image > >>You can mount this > >> mount floppy-image /mnt -o loop > >> cd /mnt > >> rm * (only if floppy was not empty) > >> tar -xvjf /path-to/etc.tar.bz2 > >> cd homedir > >> umount /mnt > > > > OK, that creates an _un_tar'ed etc directory in the floppy image, > > but I thought the boot process wanted /etc tar'ed up? > > > > Shouldn't the "tar -xvjf /path-to/etc.tar.bz2" command be: > > "cp /path-to/etc.tar.bz2 /mnt" instead??? > > Yes, of course. Must have been a little absent-minded when I > wrote that. You just wanted to see if I was paying attention, right? :-) - BS |
