dev-cpp-users

RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Reid T. <Rei...@at...>]

many reasons..., here's the first that comes to my mind....
size:
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U    19223 Apr 22 22:22 tstC.exe*
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   448506 Apr 22 22:29 tstCPP.exe*
stripped:
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U    10240 Apr 22 22:32 tstC.exe*
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   219136 Apr 22 22:32 tstCPP.exe*

=20
and ease of use is subjective :)
=20
#include <stdio.h>
=20
int main(void)
{
    printf("hello world");
    return 0;
}
---------------------------
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;
=20
int main(void)
{
    cout << "hello world";
    return 0;
}
=20
or, since everything 'should' be a class/object:
=20
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;
=20
class Hello
{
    public:
    void print(void)
    {
        cout << "hello world" << endl;
    }
};
int main(void)
{
      Hello* p =3D new Hello;
      p -> print();
      delete p;
      return 0;
}
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   449115 Apr 22 22:51 tstCPP.exe*
stripped
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   219648 Apr 22 22:55 tstCPP.exe*




=20
=20


reid=20

	-----Original Message-----
	From: jose isaias cabrera [mailto:ji...@fr...]=20
	Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 10:17 PM
	To: dev...@li...
	Subject: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
=09
=09
	=20
	Greetings!
	=20
	Here is a question for all: why would anyone use c when c++ is so much =
easier?
	=20
	jos=E9

RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Khalid El-K. <kha...@ho...>]

One question:

is there a extern "C++" like there's extern "C" ?

if there's isn't, C code will be more useable, for both C++ and C programms. 
(?)


Khalid
>Ioannis wearing his bullet-proof vest:
>
>
>Keep in mind that the prevalent X-Window library now is a C++ one. Also 
>most
>new GNU/Linux programs are being written in C++ these days...
>
>
>File sizes for the hello world program should not be different.
>
>
>
>
>Ioannis Vranos
>
>* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
>* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
>* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
>
>
>Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
>Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dev...@li...
>[mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Reid
>Thompson
>Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 6:03 AM
>To: dev...@li...
>Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
>
>
>many reasons..., here's the first that comes to my mind....
>size:
>-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U    19223 Apr 22 22:22 tstC.exe*
>-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   448506 Apr 22 22:29 tstCPP.exe*
>stripped:
>-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U    10240 Apr 22 22:32 tstC.exe*
>-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   219136 Apr 22 22:32 tstCPP.exe*
>
>
>and ease of use is subjective :)
>
>#include <stdio.h>
>
>int main(void)
>{
>     printf("hello world");
>     return 0;
>}
>---------------------------
>#include <iostream>
>using namespace std;
>
>int main(void)
>{
>     cout << "hello world";
>     return 0;
>}
>
>or, since everything 'should' be a class/object:
>
>#include <iostream>
>using namespace std;
>
>class Hello
>{
>     public:
>     void print(void)
>     {
>         cout << "hello world" << endl;
>     }
>};
>int main(void)
>{
>       Hello* p = new Hello;
>       p -> print();
>       delete p;
>       return 0;
>}
>-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   449115 Apr 22 22:51 tstCPP.exe*
>stripped
>-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   219648 Apr 22 22:55 tstCPP.exe*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>reid
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jose isaias cabrera [mailto:ji...@fr...]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 10:17 PM
>To: dev...@li...
>Subject: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
>
>
>
>Greetings!
>
>Here is a question for all: why would anyone use c when c++ is so much
>easier?
>
>josé
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
>Welcome to geek heaven.
>http://thinkgeek.com/sf
>_______________________________________________
>Dev-cpp-users mailing list
>Dev...@li...
>TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.noicys.cjb.net/devcpp/ub.htm
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users


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RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Ioannis V. <iv...@at...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf 
> Of Khalid El-Kary
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 7:19 AM
> To: Dev...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> 
> 
> One question:
> 
> is there a extern "C++" like there's extern "C" ?
> 
> if there's isn't, C code will be more useable, for both C++ 
> and C programms. 
> (?)
> 
> 
> Khalid


extern "C" works both ways!


If you want to use your C++ code in C programs, enclose the C++
*definitions* inside extern "C" blocks.




Ioannis Vranos
 
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net


Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org

Re: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Norman G. <no...@ju...>]

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:16:34 -0400 "jose isaias cabrera"
<ji...@fr...> writes:

>Here is a question for all: why would anyone use c when c++ is so much
easier?

Two obvious reasons are executable code size and compiler capability.

Code written in C usually generates smaller executables than code written
in C++. Because of this you are more likely to use C only for embedded
applications.

If you are using a C only compiler (and there still several around) then
the use of C only is a given. Many older C/C++ compilers will have a lot
of trouble with modern ANSI C++, but will probably work fine with C code.
Also, there are several interpreters and script languages based on C, but
very few based on (the more complex) C++.

Is C++ really easier to use than C? The answer is a matter of opinion ...
many will disagree!

Norm

RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Ioannis V. <iv...@at...>]

A C++ program should not be less space/time efficient than an equivalent =
C
program.





Ioannis Vranos

* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net


Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org=20

-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Norman
Gonsalves
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 8:57 AM
To: dev...@li...
Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question


On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:16:34 -0400 "jose isaias cabrera"
<ji...@fr...> writes:

>Here is a question for all: why would anyone use c when c++ is so much
easier?

Two obvious reasons are executable code size and compiler capability.

Code written in C usually generates smaller executables than code =
written in
C++. Because of this you are more likely to use C only for embedded
applications.

If you are using a C only compiler (and there still several around) then =
the
use of C only is a given. Many older C/C++ compilers will have a lot of
trouble with modern ANSI C++, but will probably work fine with C code. =
Also,
there are several interpreters and script languages based on C, but very =
few
based on (the more complex) C++.

Is C++ really easier to use than C? The answer is a matter of opinion =
...
many will disagree!

Norm

Re: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[jose i. c. <ji...@fr...>]

Well, perhaps I was prematured in posing the question.  I can see your =
point.  My first project was to parse through up to ten text files of =
2megs each and create a report and it was very complicated using text =
handling functions to split a line, to search through a really long line =
of text, etc... Then finding out that c++ has string functions, I was =
like, "dude, nice!" :')

jos=E9

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Norman Gonsalves=20
  To: dev...@li...=20
  Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 1:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question


  On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:16:34 -0400 "jose isaias cabrera" =
<ji...@fr...> writes:

  >Here is a question for all: why would anyone use c when c++ is so =
much easier?

  Two obvious reasons are executable code size and compiler capability.

  Code written in C usually generates smaller executables than code =
written in C++. Because of this you are more likely to use C only for =
embedded applications.

  If you are using a C only compiler (and there still several around) =
then the use of C only is a given. Many older C/C++ compilers will have =
a lot of trouble with modern ANSI C++, but will probably work fine with =
C code. Also, there are several interpreters and script languages based =
on C, but very few based on (the more complex) C++.

  Is C++ really easier to use than C? The answer is a matter of opinion =
..... many will disagree!

  Norm

RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Reid T. <Rei...@at...>]

initial file sizes compiled on cygwin gcc/g++.
these compiled on RH 7.2 gcc/g++ - not as large a difference, but a =
difference.
Not sure how that would equate out if the program was 10K lines, or 100K =
lines, etc
gcc version 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.2 2.96-108.7.2)

-rwxr-xr-x    1 rthompso staff       13738 Apr 23 07:29 tst*
-rwxr-xr-x    1 rthompso staff       14765 Apr 23 07:29 tstCpp*
stripped
-rwxr-xr-x    1 rthompso staff        4088 Apr 23 07:31 tstCpp*
-rwxr-xr-x    1 rthompso staff        3272 Apr 23 07:31 tst*

#include <stdio.h>

int main(void)
{
    printf("hello world\n");
    return 0;
}


#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

class Hello
{
    public:
    void print(void)
    {
        cout << "hello world" << endl;
    }
};
int main(void)
{
      Hello* p =3D new Hello;
      p -> print();
      delete p;
      return 0;
}

reid


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Khalid El-Kary [mailto:kha...@ho...]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:19 AM
> To: Dev...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
>=20
>=20
> One question:
>=20
> is there a extern "C++" like there's extern "C" ?
>=20
> if there's isn't, C code will be more useable, for both C++=20
> and C programms.=20
> (?)
>=20
>=20
> Khalid
> >Ioannis wearing his bullet-proof vest:
> >
> >
> >Keep in mind that the prevalent X-Window library now is a=20
> C++ one. Also
> >most
> >new GNU/Linux programs are being written in C++ these days...
> >
> >
> >File sizes for the hello world program should not be different.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Ioannis Vranos
> >
> >* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
> >* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
> >* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
> >
> >
> >Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
> >Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: dev...@li...
> >[mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Reid=20
> >Thompson
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 6:03 AM
> >To: dev...@li...
> >Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> >
> >
> >many reasons..., here's the first that comes to my mind....
> >size:
> >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U    19223 Apr 22 22:22 tstC.exe*
> >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   448506 Apr 22 22:29 tstCPP.exe*
> >stripped:
> >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U    10240 Apr 22 22:32 tstC.exe*
> >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   219136 Apr 22 22:32 tstCPP.exe*
> >
> >
> >and ease of use is subjective :)
> >
> >#include <stdio.h>
> >
> >int main(void)
> >{
> >     printf("hello world");
> >     return 0;
> >}
> >---------------------------
> >#include <iostream>
> >using namespace std;
> >
> >int main(void)
> >{
> >     cout << "hello world";
> >     return 0;
> >}
> >
> >or, since everything 'should' be a class/object:
> >
> >#include <iostream>
> >using namespace std;
> >
> >class Hello
> >{
> >     public:
> >     void print(void)
> >     {
> >         cout << "hello world" << endl;
> >     }
> >};
> >int main(void)
> >{
> >       Hello* p =3D new Hello;
> >       p -> print();
> >       delete p;
> >       return 0;
> >}
> >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   449115 Apr 22 22:51 tstCPP.exe*
> >stripped
> >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   219648 Apr 22 22:55 tstCPP.exe*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >reid
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: jose isaias cabrera [mailto:ji...@fr...]
> >Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 10:17 PM
> >To: dev...@li...
> >Subject: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> >
> >
> >
> >Greetings!
> >
> >Here is a question for all: why would anyone use c when c++=20
> is so much=20
> >easier?
> >
> >jos=E9
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------
> >This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> >Welcome to geek heaven.
> >http://thinkgeek.com/sf=20
> _______________________________________________
> >Dev-cpp-users mailing list
> >Dev...@li...
> >TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.noicys.cjb.net/devcpp/ub.htm
> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.=20
> http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> Dev-cpp-users mailing list
> Dev...@li...
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.noicys.cjb.net/devcpp/ub.htm
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
>=20

RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Ioannis V. <iv...@at...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf 
> Of Reid Thompson
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 2:35 PM
> To: Khalid El-Kary; Dev...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> 
> 
> initial file sizes compiled on cygwin gcc/g++.
> these compiled on RH 7.2 gcc/g++ - not as large a difference, 
> but a difference.
> Not sure how that would equate out if the program was 10K 
> lines, or 100K lines, etc
> gcc version 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.2 2.96-108.7.2)


This doesn't mean anything other than that the C++ part of the compiler has
more space of improvement (after all C++ standard is relatively new!).


References:

http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#Hello-world

http://www.research.att.com/~bs/esc99.html

and my own benchmarks: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/cppfaq.htm



Check them out.



Regards,

Ioannis Vranos
 
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net


Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org

RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Louis G. <lg...@ya...>]

Reid,
Does "stripped" mean no debug info ?

--- Reid Thompson <Rei...@at...> wrote:
> initial file sizes compiled on cygwin gcc/g++.
> these compiled on RH 7.2 gcc/g++ - not as large a difference, but a
> difference.
> Not sure how that would equate out if the program was 10K lines, or 100K
> lines, etc
> gcc version 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.2 2.96-108.7.2)
> 
> -rwxr-xr-x    1 rthompso staff       13738 Apr 23 07:29 tst*
> -rwxr-xr-x    1 rthompso staff       14765 Apr 23 07:29 tstCpp*
> stripped
> -rwxr-xr-x    1 rthompso staff        4088 Apr 23 07:31 tstCpp*
> -rwxr-xr-x    1 rthompso staff        3272 Apr 23 07:31 tst*
> 
> #include <stdio.h>
> 
> int main(void)
> {
>     printf("hello world\n");
>     return 0;
> }
> 
> 
> #include <iostream>
> using namespace std;
> 
> class Hello
> {
>     public:
>     void print(void)
>     {
>         cout << "hello world" << endl;
>     }
> };
> int main(void)
> {
>       Hello* p = new Hello;
>       p -> print();
>       delete p;
>       return 0;
> }
> 
> reid
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Khalid El-Kary [mailto:kha...@ho...] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:19 AM
> > To: Dev...@li...
> > Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> > 
> > 
> > One question:
> > 
> > is there a extern "C++" like there's extern "C" ?
> > 
> > if there's isn't, C code will be more useable, for both C++ 
> > and C programms. 
> > (?)
> > 
> > 
> > Khalid
> > >Ioannis wearing his bullet-proof vest:
> > >
> > >
> > >Keep in mind that the prevalent X-Window library now is a 
> > C++ one. Also
> > >most
> > >new GNU/Linux programs are being written in C++ these days...
> > >
> > >
> > >File sizes for the hello world program should not be different.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Ioannis Vranos
> > >
> > >* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
> > >* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
> > >* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
> > >
> > >
> > >Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
> > >Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: dev...@li...
> > >[mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Reid 
> > >Thompson
> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 6:03 AM
> > >To: dev...@li...
> > >Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> > >
> > >
> > >many reasons..., here's the first that comes to my mind....
> > >size:
> > >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U    19223 Apr 22 22:22 tstC.exe*
> > >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   448506 Apr 22 22:29 tstCPP.exe*
> > >stripped:
> > >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U    10240 Apr 22 22:32 tstC.exe*
> > >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   219136 Apr 22 22:32 tstCPP.exe*
> > >
> > >
> > >and ease of use is subjective :)
> > >
> > >#include <stdio.h>
> > >
> > >int main(void)
> > >{
> > >     printf("hello world");
> > >     return 0;
> > >}
> > >---------------------------
> > >#include <iostream>
> > >using namespace std;
> > >
> > >int main(void)
> > >{
> > >     cout << "hello world";
> > >     return 0;
> > >}
> > >
> > >or, since everything 'should' be a class/object:
> > >
> > >#include <iostream>
> > >using namespace std;
> > >
> > >class Hello
> > >{
> > >     public:
> > >     void print(void)
> > >     {
> > >         cout << "hello world" << endl;
> > >     }
> > >};
> > >int main(void)
> > >{
> > >       Hello* p = new Hello;
> > >       p -> print();
> > >       delete p;
> > >       return 0;
> > >}
> > >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   449115 Apr 22 22:51 tstCPP.exe*
> > >stripped
> > >-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   219648 Apr 22 22:55 tstCPP.exe*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >reid
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: jose isaias cabrera [mailto:ji...@fr...]
> > >Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 10:17 PM
> > >To: dev...@li...
> > >Subject: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Greetings!
> > >
> > >Here is a question for all: why would anyone use c when c++ 
> > is so much 
> > >easier?
> > >
> > >josé
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-------------------------------------------------------
> > >This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> > >Welcome to geek heaven.
> > >http://thinkgeek.com/sf 
> > _______________________________________________
> > >Dev-cpp-users mailing list
> > >Dev...@li...
> > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.noicys.cjb.net/devcpp/ub.htm
> > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
> > 
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> > Welcome to geek heaven.
> > http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dev-cpp-users mailing list
> > Dev...@li...
> 
=== message truncated ===


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Fwd: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Krzysztof K. <sa...@op...>]

> Khalid
> >Ioannis wearing his bullet-proof vest:
> >
> >
> >Keep in mind that the prevalent X-Window library now is a 
> C++ one. Also
> >most
> >new GNU/Linux programs are being written in C++ these days...
> >
> >
> >File sizes for the hello world program should not be different.
> >

This is not exactly right. One of the reasons why the C++ code could
be larger/slower than C one (not much, just a bit) is that for every
object the '*this' pointer is added to function params. Just putting
it one the stack takes a bit of time and a bit of space...

Why people need to use C sometimes instead of C++? Because there are
many platforms (especially microcontrollers) for which there is a
C compiler but no C++ is available. Also the object-oriented (C++)
programming (with analysis, optimization) is more complicated than
programming without objects.

-- 
Have a nice life,
 Krzysztof

mailto:sa...@op...
http://www.saveman.w.pl

RE: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Ioannis V. <iv...@at...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf 
> Of Krzysztof Kapuscik
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 4:10 PM
> To: Dev...@li...
> Subject: Fwd: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> 
> 
> This is not exactly right. One of the reasons why the C++ code could
> be larger/slower than C one (not much, just a bit) is that for every
> object the '*this' pointer is added to function params. Just putting
> it one the stack takes a bit of time and a bit of space...
> 
> Why people need to use C sometimes instead of C++? Because there are
> many platforms (especially microcontrollers) for which there is a
> C compiler but no C++ is available. Also the object-oriented (C++)
> programming (with analysis, optimization) is more complicated than
> programming without objects.


If a "this" pointer is considered too costly to you then don't use objects
in your C++ code. Do you believe that C is better than the procedural
paradigm of C++ (the C-subset?).




Ioannis Vranos
 
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net


Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org

RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Khalid El-K. <kha...@ho...>]

Hi fellows,
In my point of view, I believe that C is simpler, lower-level.
simplicity always has some merits, like the mentioned file size issue.

C++ on the other hand is better structered, geared towards better 
integration in work and gains higher code-reusability...and the other 
advantages of OO languages :-)

I don't believe in the way of saying "lang_name is the best" (where 
lang_name is your prefered language)--every language suites a purpose, and 
every purpose has a best language for it.

I believe, C is very good for work where performance makes much difference, 
performance also means memory usage which is affected by the executable file 
size. one of the good proofs that C applications are geared towards 
performance is, the writing of the Apache HTTP server, PHP, Python, MySQL in 
C, note that all these applications are designed for plain performance, for 
the high web traffic.

C++, is better in companies work, where you don't have hackers and 
volunteers, where you have dead lines :-) because it makes the development 
and maintenance proccess easier. and modularized ...

personally I always prefer C, since I like the old-style simple things, and 
since I didn't find a bad behaviour or a draw back in its coding style, I 
won't change until I'm obliged by a boss ...

HTH

Regards,
Khalid Al-Kary

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RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Ioannis V. <iv...@at...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf 
> Of Khalid El-Kary
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:26 PM
> To: Dev...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> 
> 
> Hi fellows,
> In my point of view, I believe that C is simpler, lower-level.
> simplicity always has some merits, like the mentioned file size issue.
> 
> C++ on the other hand is better structered, geared towards better 
> integration in work and gains higher code-reusability...and the other 
> advantages of OO languages :-)


C++ is not just OO. Supports 4 paradigms including the C's one (and that
with better type checking).


> 
> I don't believe in the way of saying "lang_name is the best" (where 
> lang_name is your prefered language)--every language suites a 
> purpose, and 
> every purpose has a best language for it.
> 
> I believe, C is very good for work where performance makes 
> much difference, 
> performance also means memory usage which is affected by the 
> executable file 
> size. one of the good proofs that C applications are geared towards 
> performance is, the writing of the Apache HTTP server, PHP, 
> Python, MySQL in 
> C, note that all these applications are designed for plain 
> performance, for 
> the high web traffic.



Check my own benchmarks: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/cppfaq.htm




> C++, is better in companies work, where you don't have hackers and 
> volunteers, where you have dead lines :-) because it makes 
> the development 
> and maintenance proccess easier. and modularized ...


C++ is excellent for hacking. It leaves no room for a lower level language
except assembly. At the same time provides great abstraction with higher
level facilities.



> 
> personally I always prefer C, since I like the old-style 
> simple things, and 
> since I didn't find a bad behaviour or a draw back in its 
> coding style, I 
> won't change until I'm obliged by a boss ...


It's a religious issue but I consider C++ better since


string s;

cin>>s;


is simpler and safer than char *.


C is OK but especially after C99 I consider it dead (Ioannis takes cover).




Ioannis Vranos
 
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net


Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org

[Dev-C++] RE: c or c++. that is the question

[jp <rar...@xt...>]

C is an assembler macro language

C++ is C with classes (inheritance, protected members and a vtable), =
templates (structured preprocessing), exceptions and stricter type =
checking.  C++ features generally map to underlying concepts available =
in C, such as exceptions mapping to setjmp/longjmp plus some =
book-keeping of the stack. Early C++ actually compiled to C (CFront).

C++ is not a first class OO language, and as such can't claim the =
benefits of, say LISP or Python. I won't mention the J word, because it =
is afflicted with brittle base class syndrome, and intrusive library =
syndrome... And I won't mention VB either...

Being so close to assembler, C is (comparatively) easy to retarget, and =
it is (comparatively) easy for a programmer to understand the impact his =
code is having 'on the metal'. Thus C, but probably not C++, can be used =
to program the uC in your washing machine.

C and C++ are systems programming languages, and it seems to me they are =
overkill for 99% of the tasks they are applied to. I direct the person =
who doubts this to the Mozilla project, which uses XML for much of the =
detail, and to the Python VTK bindings, which make scientific =
visualization an efficient and interactive pastime.

This said, I use C++ most of the time. I often wrap C libraries and =
other APIs with classes, and I like the way C/C++ enables integration of =
third party code and binaries without the overburden of something like =
ActiveX or custom bindings. I write a lot of tools and subsystems, and I =
think C and C++ are good for this. Also, I'm blundering thru a machine =
vision project at the moment, and although there are various tools that =
do some of what I need (Lush, VXL), I'm preferring to go minimalist, and =
use C/C++, including source for functions as I need them.

One of my favourite languages is PostScript. I doubt there are many =
implementations of it that aren't written in C/C++.=20

Like any trade, half the battle is knowing the tool for the job...

RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Daniel G. <sp...@ho...>]

what about
#ifdef __cplusplus
//...code
#endif

or is that something that our company has created themselves?



>From: "Ioannis Vranos" <iv...@at...>
>To: <Dev...@li...>
>Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
>Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:53:06 +0300
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dev...@li...
> > [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf
> > Of Khalid El-Kary
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 7:19 AM
> > To: Dev...@li...
> > Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> >
> >
> > One question:
> >
> > is there a extern "C++" like there's extern "C" ?
> >
> > if there's isn't, C code will be more useable, for both C++
> > and C programms.
> > (?)
> >
> >
> > Khalid
>
>
>extern "C" works both ways!
>
>
>If you want to use your C++ code in C programs, enclose the C++
>*definitions* inside extern "C" blocks.
>
>
>
>
>Ioannis Vranos
>
>* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
>* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
>* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
>
>
>Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
>Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
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RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Ioannis V. <iv...@at...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Glenfield [mailto:sp...@ho...] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 12:02 PM
> To: iv...@at...; Dev...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question
> 
> 
> what about
> #ifdef __cplusplus
> //...code
> #endif
> 
> or is that something that our company has created themselves?



It is an extension of the implementation. extern "C" when applied to a C++
definition creates an object file with C linkage.



Ioannis Vranos
 
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net


Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org

RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question

[Ioannis V. <iv...@at...>]

Ioannis wearing his bullet-proof vest:


Keep in mind that the prevalent X-Window library now is a C++ one. Also =
most
new GNU/Linux programs are being written in C++ these days...


File sizes for the hello world program should not be different.




Ioannis Vranos
=20
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.freeurl.com
* Alternative URL 1: http://run.to/noicys
* Alternative URL 2: http://www.noicys.cjb.net


Anti-racism movement: http://www.positive-youthfoundation.org
Iraq Peace Pledge: http://www.peacepledge.org





-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Reid
Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 6:03 AM
To: dev...@li...
Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question


many reasons..., here's the first that comes to my mind....
size:
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U    19223 Apr 22 22:22 tstC.exe*
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   448506 Apr 22 22:29 tstCPP.exe*
stripped:
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U    10240 Apr 22 22:32 tstC.exe*
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   219136 Apr 22 22:32 tstCPP.exe*

=20
and ease of use is subjective :)

#include <stdio.h>

int main(void)
{
    printf("hello world");
    return 0;
}
---------------------------
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main(void)
{
    cout << "hello world";
    return 0;
}

or, since everything 'should' be a class/object:

#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

class Hello
{
    public:
    void print(void)
    {
        cout << "hello world" << endl;
    }
};
int main(void)
{
      Hello* p =3D new Hello;
      p -> print();
      delete p;
      return 0;
}
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   449115 Apr 22 22:51 tstCPP.exe*
stripped
-rwxrwxrwx    1 Reid.Tho Domain U   219648 Apr 22 22:55 tstCPP.exe*








reid=20
-----Original Message-----
From: jose isaias cabrera [mailto:ji...@fr...]=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 10:17 PM
To: dev...@li...
Subject: [Dev-C++] c or c++. that is the question



Greetings!

Here is a question for all: why would anyone use c when c++ is so much
easier?

jos=E9