dev-cpp-users — Dev-C++ users discussion list

RE: Re[2]: [Dev-C++] C#

[Ramana K. <ra...@my...>]

i was aware that there is information available on the internet, however, it
was more practical for me to ask my specific questions in the mailing list
and information from microsoft's web site will be steered more towards
promotion of C# rather than helping me decide whether i should learn it and
how it compares, realistically, to C++.
thanks for the sdk site though :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Zodiaq [mailto:zo...@ac...]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2002 7:36 PM
To: Ramana Kumar
Subject: Re[2]: [Dev-C++] C#


Hello Ramana and all Dev-C++ users,

Tuesday, July 2, 2002, 9:42:46 AM, Ramana wrote as follows:

RK> THANKYOU so very much to Ioannis and his many posts demonstrating his
much
RK> appreciated wealth of knowledge.
RK> Well, I have now concluded that I will stick with c++ and not bother
with
RK> c#, although i will consider getting some info about the .NET API, as I
am
RK> currently using the Win32 API and am finding all the reference for this
in a
RK> dated .hlp file (but it works, so hey :))

I wander why you do this... don't you know that you can get full
platform sdk form online microsoft services? In platform sdk you have
EVERYTHING - documentation, samples... just visit this link and
download apropriate SDKs...
http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/platformsdk/sdkupdate/
or get from somewhere MSDN... good place to start is eDonkey...


RK> I might even switch to .NET for
RK> this thing i'm writing, but it won't have to be platform-independant
RK> but anyway, you people are probably not interested
RK> thanks again
RK> ramana


--
regards, Zodiaq

[Dev-C++] C# <- Not New tech

[Vicente A.S. W. <th...@th...>]

----- Original Message -----=20


Microsoft doesn't innovate, they just take old technologies, put a
marketing campaigne around it, and claim that it's theirs.
 =20
      fasle .net is not an old tech.

=20
You're wrong, .Net is just a VM like java, with nothing new as JavaVM=20
isn't limited to be used with Java (more than 100 different languages/
compilers use it). A big API with classes for doing everything you need
isn't a new thing too, Java already had it, and before Java other =
platforms
got it too, If you call "new tech" the fact that you can use the API =
from=20
different languages, there're lots of precedents too. Finally, the =
famous=20
(and now rooted to death) Hailstorm autentification service is not a new =
thing,
Kerberos could have done the same, and it has existed for years. I think =
Hongli
Lai is right, Microsoft doesn't innovate, just puts a big marketing =
campaing with=20
too much hype so it feels it's a new thing they're doing (like the 3d =
desktop for
longhorn, when there was a running one for XWindows for years) but =
without any
supporting fact behind. They don't innovate, just copy what has been =
done before.
If you look at GUI evolution you'll see that their only REAL innovation =
(and I guess=20
I've not searched enough to find a precedent) was the taskbar (a minor =
tweak of Apple's
task drop down menu) everything else already existed. C# has some good =
things (namespace=20
being one of them), but big drawbacks (it doesn't exist a good non =
propietary implementation=20
yet as momo still has to grow).
=20
My 2cents
=20

Re: [Dev-C++] dev -c# ???

[Hongli L. <h....@ch...>]

On Tue, 2002-07-02 at 09:43, Teodorescu Cristian wrote:
> Is anyone interested to port  c# on dev-c++??
> 

We didn't write the compiler, only the IDE.
And unless Mono gets ported to Win32, I don't think we'll ever support
C#.

Re: [Dev-C++] C#

[Hongli L. <h....@ch...>]

On Tue, 2002-07-02 at 09:33, Teodorescu Cristian wrote:
> Hongli Lai wrote:
> >Microsoft doesn't innovate, they just take old technologies, put a
> >marketing campaigne around it, and claim that it's theirs.
> >  
> >
>     fasle .net is not an old tech.
> 

"XML web services"? XML has been around for a while now. And so have
"web services". .NET runtime, virtual machine, or whatever remind me *a
lot* of Java. Write one interface and be able to use it in every
language? Can't you do that with CORBA too?

RE: [Dev-C++] C#

[Ramana K. <ra...@my...>]

THANKYOU so very much to Ioannis and his many posts demonstrating his much
appreciated wealth of knowledge.
Well, I have now concluded that I will stick with c++ and not bother with
c#, although i will consider getting some info about the .NET API, as I am
currently using the Win32 API and am finding all the reference for this in a
dated .hlp file (but it works, so hey :)) I might even switch to .NET for
this thing i'm writing, but it won't have to be platform-independant
but anyway, you people are probably not interested
thanks again
ramana

-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...]On Behalf Of Ioannis
Vranos
Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2002 2:34 AM
To: dev...@li...
Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] C#


> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li...
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf
> Of Daniel Glenfield
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 3:09 PM
> To: ra...@my...; dev...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] C#
>
>
> I'd be interested too if anyone can give a good definition of C#.

C# is a C-style language (at least advertised as such) which permits to
do the basic programming stuff (which is not a bad thing), like VB.


>
> I know that you have greater control over memory management
> than in C++,
> that's about it.


And not only of memory management, and also you do not need garbage
collection with C++. Also in C++ it is better to avoid explicit memory
management and use standard library containers instead.



Ioannis

* Ioannis Vranos
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys


-------------------------------------------------------
This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
Welcome to geek heaven.
http://thinkgeek.com/sf
_______________________________________________
Dev-cpp-users mailing list
Dev...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users

[Dev-C++] dev -c# ???

[Teodorescu C. <te...@xt...>]

Is anyone interested to port  c# on dev-c++??

Re: [Dev-C++] C#

[Teodorescu C. <te...@xt...>]

Hongli Lai wrote:

>On Tue, 2002-07-02 at 01:30, Flavio de Souza wrote:
>  
>
>>I'd like to give my little contribution to this discussion.
>>
>>I think M$ again wants to monopolize the market by using some marketing.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>They've been doing this for years.
>  
>
    they said that they do whatever it takes to impose .net as future 
platform.

>Microsoft doesn't innovate, they just take old technologies, put a
>marketing campaigne around it, and claim that it's theirs.
>  
>
    fasle .net is not an old tech.

>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
>Welcome to geek heaven.
>http://thinkgeek.com/sf
>_______________________________________________
>Dev-cpp-users mailing list
>Dev...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
>  
>

Re: [Dev-C++] C#

[Teodorescu C. <te...@xt...>]

Ioannis Vranos wrote:

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: dev...@li... 
>>[mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Rob
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:11 AM
>>To: dev...@li...
>>Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] C#
>>
>>
>>C++ is definitely a strong choice for programming students. 
>>The two main
>>reasons I've seen professors offer on its behalf are that it's a
>>language that the students will actually find useful "in the 
>>real world"
>>and that students who gain a solid foundation in C++ seem to be more
>>capable of handling a wide variety of challenges later in their course
>>of study.
>>
>>Since we've been talking about .NET during this thread as 
>>well, I think
>>it's interesting to point out that out of all the components 
>>of the new
>>M$ Visual Studio .NET, C++ is the only language you can use 
>>within that
>>system to compile programs that will run on computers that do not have
>>.NET installed. This places a serious limitation on C#, VB, 
>>and all the
>>other components. (I get the impression they didn't think many C++
>>developers would buy it with the .NET limitation.)
>>    
>>
>
>According to IDC Developer's report for 2001 C++ is the dominant general
>purpose programming language with about 2.6 million developers
>worldwide. Second was VB with about (if i recall correctly) 1.4 million
>developers, and then were other languages like Java etc. They know that
>C++ is the most popular.
>
>After all they claim that Windows are written with their Visual C++.
>
>
>Mainly they advertise C# much because i think they want to lure Java
>developers and if possible why not VB developers. C# can be used by C++
>coders for normal applications and probably be learned by them in 1-2
>days. I have seen this happening with me learning advanced Pascal in 2
>days  after learning C (The  {$i+}, {$i-} etc stuff). But i hate Pascal.
>:)
>
>
>After learning single and multiple inheritance in C++ how difficult it
>can be to learn using single inheritance only that is being used by C#?
>Another stupid thing i recall from C# is the use of goto inside a switch
>statement.
>  
>
Bad and good
Bad becuse they called goto.
Good beacuse it help you to define a way a good one in a switch 
sometimes i have to write smth like
switch (x){
    case 1 : code_1 ;break
    case 2 :    code_2 ;break
    case 3 :         code3+code 1:break
    case 4 :       code 4+code 2:break
    default : break;
};
so in C# :
switch (x){
    case 1 :code_1;
    case 2 : code_2;
    case 3 : code 3 goto 1;
    case 4 : code_4 goto 2;
};
more simple :-)

>
>It was something like:
>
>switch(x)
>{
> case 1:
>            x=2;
>            goto 3;
>  case 3:
>           y=4;
>   
>  case 5: 
>            z=6;
>
>  default: // something
>
>}
>
>
>As i said something *like* that.
>
>
>So if you want to do the same job for some range of values you have to
>use gotos!
>
>e.g. in C++ you would do:
>
>switch(x)
>{
>  case 1:
>  case 2:
>   case 3:
>          cout<<"Get lost loser!\n";
>          break;
>// ...
>}
>
>
>in C# you have to do sonething like:
>
>switch(x)
>{
>  case 1: goto case 3;
>  case 2: goto case 3;
>  case 3: something_java_like.writeconsole_something("Get lost
>loser!\n");
>// ...
>}
>
>
>Ioannis
>
>* Ioannis Vranos
>* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
>* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
>Welcome to geek heaven.
>http://thinkgeek.com/sf
>_______________________________________________
>Dev-cpp-users mailing list
>Dev...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
>  
>

Re: [Dev-C++] Can't review code

[Daniel G. <sp...@ho...>]

This is while your program is running yes? This is normal behaviour - you've 
got to use the debugging mode to review the code while the program is in 
action.

>From: Adam Vardy <an...@ro...>
>Reply-To: Adam Vardy <an...@ro...>
>To: dev...@li...
>Subject: [Dev-C++] Can't review code
>Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:12:27 -0230
>
>When I hit execute, program runs. And when I click on Dev C++ in the
>taskbar, it refuses to appear. What can I do about that?
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
>Welcome to geek heaven.
>http://thinkgeek.com/sf
>_______________________________________________
>Dev-cpp-users mailing list
>Dev...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

RE: [Dev-C++] C#

[Ioannis V. <no...@ho...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Rob
> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:11 AM
> To: dev...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] C#
> 
> 
> C++ is definitely a strong choice for programming students. 
> The two main
> reasons I've seen professors offer on its behalf are that it's a
> language that the students will actually find useful "in the 
> real world"
> and that students who gain a solid foundation in C++ seem to be more
> capable of handling a wide variety of challenges later in their course
> of study.
> 
> Since we've been talking about .NET during this thread as 
> well, I think
> it's interesting to point out that out of all the components 
> of the new
> M$ Visual Studio .NET, C++ is the only language you can use 
> within that
> system to compile programs that will run on computers that do not have
> .NET installed. This places a serious limitation on C#, VB, 
> and all the
> other components. (I get the impression they didn't think many C++
> developers would buy it with the .NET limitation.)

According to IDC Developer's report for 2001 C++ is the dominant general
purpose programming language with about 2.6 million developers
worldwide. Second was VB with about (if i recall correctly) 1.4 million
developers, and then were other languages like Java etc. They know that
C++ is the most popular.

After all they claim that Windows are written with their Visual C++.


Mainly they advertise C# much because i think they want to lure Java
developers and if possible why not VB developers. C# can be used by C++
coders for normal applications and probably be learned by them in 1-2
days. I have seen this happening with me learning advanced Pascal in 2
days  after learning C (The  {$i+}, {$i-} etc stuff). But i hate Pascal.
:)


After learning single and multiple inheritance in C++ how difficult it
can be to learn using single inheritance only that is being used by C#?
Another stupid thing i recall from C# is the use of goto inside a switch
statement.


It was something like:

switch(x)
{
 case 1:
            x=2;
            goto 3;
  case 3:
           y=4;
   
  case 5: 
            z=6;

  default: // something

}


As i said something *like* that.


So if you want to do the same job for some range of values you have to
use gotos!

e.g. in C++ you would do:

switch(x)
{
  case 1:
  case 2:
   case 3:
          cout<<"Get lost loser!\n";
          break;
// ...
}


in C# you have to do sonething like:

switch(x)
{
  case 1: goto case 3;
  case 2: goto case 3;
  case 3: something_java_like.writeconsole_something("Get lost
loser!\n");
// ...
}


Ioannis

* Ioannis Vranos
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys

[Dev-C++] Can't review code

[Adam V. <an...@ro...>]

When I hit execute, program runs. And when I click on Dev C++ in the
taskbar, it refuses to appear. What can I do about that?

Re: [Dev-C++] C#

[Adam V. <an...@ro...>]

Monday, July 1, 2002, 9:29:44 AM, you wrote:

RK> are any of you learning it?
RK> who should learn it?

Or, which should you start with?

RK> what's it really for?
RK> is c++ still going to be as widely used?
RK> or am i way off track in asking that?
RK> i know there is a free c# compiler somewhere (haven't looked into that yet
RK> though),

Can someone point it out?

RK> considering starting a c# editor/compiler?
RK> does anyone know much about .NET? it seems i might have to get a bit more of
RK> an understanding of .NET because information on c# assumes you know what
RK> .NET is all about.

I have C++ .Net.  It is real complicated, couldn't figure it out. So I got Dev C++.

The program has no documentation at all.

RE: [Dev-C++] C#

[Hongli L. <h....@ch...>]

On Tue, 2002-07-02 at 01:30, Flavio de Souza wrote:
> I'd like to give my little contribution to this discussion.
> 
> I think M$ again wants to monopolize the market by using some marketing.
> 

They've been doing this for years.

Microsoft doesn't innovate, they just take old technologies, put a
marketing campaigne around it, and claim that it's theirs.

Re: [Dev-C++] C#

[Rob <ro...@us...>]

C++ is definitely a strong choice for programming students. The two main 
reasons I've seen professors offer on its behalf are that it's a 
language that the students will actually find useful "in the real world" 
and that students who gain a solid foundation in C++ seem to be more 
capable of handling a wide variety of challenges later in their course 
of study.

Since we've been talking about .NET during this thread as well, I think 
it's interesting to point out that out of all the components of the new 
M$ Visual Studio .NET, C++ is the only language you can use within that 
system to compile programs that will run on computers that do not have 
.NET installed. This places a serious limitation on C#, VB, and all the 
other components. (I get the impression they didn't think many C++ 
developers would buy it with the .NET limitation.)

Rob Andrews
http://uselesspython.com

Flavio de Souza wrote:

> I'd like to give my little contribution to this discussion.
> 
> I think M$ again wants to monopolize the market by using some marketing.
> 
> They called their next revolution 'C#' just to grab as much programers 
> as possible. They want 'C++' programmers to think that the C# has 
> something to do with C itself. They want that people who program in C++, 
> VB, etc; now to program in only one M$ language.
> 
> As it was mentioned in this discussion most of the world software base 
> was built in C++. Even if we stop right now to program in C++, C++ 
> programmers would be needed to migrate C++ structure to any other 
> programming structure, I believe during more two decades !
> 
> I myself prefer java, since it came first.
> 
> Right now, I am learning C++ preferably and I am trying to use java for 
> some soft non critical programming.
> 
> Regards,
> 


-- 
"Giving the Linus Torvalds Award to the Free Software Foundation is a 
bit like giving the Han Solo Award to the Rebel Alliance."
--Richard Stallman at the 1999 LinuxWorld show

[Dev-C++] wxWindows resource file ( can't open cursor file `hand.cur' )

[Flavio de S. <fla...@ya...>]

I am trying to compile a wxWindows program with Dev-Cpp and I get the 
following error:

[Resource Error] can't open cursor file `hand.cur': No such file or 
directory

  C:\Dev-C++_b\mysource\wxWindows\joytest\Makefile.win
[Build Error]  [WxWindows Project.res] Error 1

This error happens when I try to compile wxWindows programs that use 
resource files.

My resource file is the following:

aaaa                    ICON    "mondrian.ico"
joyicon                 ICON    "mondrian.ico"

#include "wx/msw/wx.rc"

I look for the file `hand.cur' and it exists in the wx.rc folder. So why 
do I get this error?

When I do not use resource files I can compile wxWindows normally.

Any ideas?

tks,

-- 
Flávio de Souza
fla...@ya...
ICQ: 78458203


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: [Dev-C++] C#

[Flavio de S. <fla...@ya...>]

I'd like to give my little contribution to this discussion.

I think M$ again wants to monopolize the market by using some marketing.

They called their next revolution 'C#' just to grab as much programers 
as possible. They want 'C++' programmers to think that the C# has 
something to do with C itself. They want that people who program in C++, 
VB, etc; now to program in only one M$ language.

As it was mentioned in this discussion most of the world software base 
was built in C++. Even if we stop right now to program in C++, C++ 
programmers would be needed to migrate C++ structure to any other 
programming structure, I believe during more two decades !

I myself prefer java, since it came first.

Right now, I am learning C++ preferably and I am trying to use java for 
some soft non critical programming.

Regards,

-- 
Flávio de Souza
fla...@ya...
ICQ: 78458203



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: [Dev-C++] C#

[Ioannis V. <no...@ho...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hongli Lai [mailto:h....@ch...] 
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 9:19 PM
> To: Ioannis Vranos
> Cc: Dev-C++ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] C#
> 
> 
> So C# doesn't differ much from Java? The hype is even bigger than I
> thought. The Microsoft fanboys say "I can hear Java 2 
> developers crying
> already because .NET and C# will blow them away"...


C# utilizes all facilities provided by .NET (and nothing more) as Java
utilizes all facilities provideed by its framework.


I do not know the differences between .NET and Java's framework. The
main difference that i know is that all .NET facilities can be used by
other languages too while the framework of Java can be used only by
Java. So in a sense, "C# is primary the language of .NET" in the sense
that it uses only .NET types and facilities.

The funny thing is that Borland prepares its C# killer code-named
Charlotte. They claim that you can not discern between it and the .NET
itself at all, that is it will be "better" than C#.

Myself believe that .NET is Yet Another API, and i am not so fanatic
about it. I 'll learn it of course beginning from this week. :)



Ioannis

* Ioannis Vranos
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys

RE: [Dev-C++] C#

[Hongli L. <h....@ch...>]

So C# doesn't differ much from Java? The hype is even bigger than I
thought. The Microsoft fanboys say "I can hear Java 2 developers crying
already because .NET and C# will blow them away"...


On Mon, 2002-07-01 at 18:24, Ioannis Vranos wrote:
> 
> Lets start by explaining what .NET is. .NET is a framework which has a
> Just In-Time Compiler like Java Virtual Machine named Common Language
> Runtime. When you create programs and compile them, they are "compiled"
> to some intermediate bytecode called "Intermediate Language". When you
> execute the program, the program is compiled at run time by the CLR
> engine and then it is executed. The main difference with JVM, is that
> JVM supports only Java while CLR is open to support any language (and so
> different languages can interoperate).
> 
> .NET provides an API for the CLR which the various languages can use so
> as to write programs, and interoperate with one another. C# is a C-style
> language (which is another matter of discussion how much C-style is, it
> resembles Pascal too) which is restricted entirely to the abilities of
> the CLR.
> 
> 
> The ideal in programming is to write portable efficient code with the
> system dependencies encapsulated in a small portion of the code only. In
> the view of .NET, if you want to make your code able to be used by other
> .NET languages, you can create a .NET interface to it.
> 
> 
> The question if C++ is going to be widely used now that C# has arrived
> is a joke, not because of language fanatism but of reality.
> C# is not a system programming language. You can not write an Operating
> System with it, it is a simple language among others in the .NET world.
> You cannot do advanced tasks with it.
> 
> 
> .NET, the entire Visual Studio 7 (including the C# compiler), 6 etc, MS
> Office, Internet Explorer, Netscape, Microsoft Windows, Virtual Java
> Machine, etc are *ALL WRITTEN IN C++*. This is natural, it could not be
> done another way.
> 
> 
> You can write a C# compiler with C++ but you can't write a C++ compiler
> with C#.
> 
> This is because C# and C++ design aims are different. C++ is made with a
> bias for systems programming (to write OSes etc) with design aims for
> writing programs with the maximum space/time efficiency possible, while
> C# design aims is to write simple applications.
> 
> 
> Also C# is not a normally standardised language, so you cannot find
> compiler for it at every system (from water machines to large
> mainframes). On the other hand C++ is openly standardised and you can
> find a compiler of it *everywhere*, and this will be happening also in
> the future (consider for example HTML, etc and other open standards,
> they will be always supported).
> C# also supports only Object Oriented programming and this not
> completely (it doesn't support multiple inheritance etc). If you want to
> write a hello world program in C# you have to create a class.
> 
> 
> This is the truth, i am not a language fanatic and probably i 'll learn
> C# in the future too (which will be very easy after C++, since their
> abilities are a subset) as also Java etc.
> 
> 
> There is much hype around C# because MS wants to lock in programmers.
> The same happens for SUN's Java, Borland's Delphi and other
> non-standardised languages.
> 
> 
> Read the following interesting article about silver bullets (the above
> languages are advertised as panaceas):
> 
> 
> http://www.itworld.com/AppDev/710/lw-02-stroustrup/
> 

Re: [Dev-C++] [Warning] Clock skew detected. Your build may beincomplete.

[Hongli L. <h....@ch...>]

On Mon, 2002-07-01 at 17:47, Mac Reiter wrote:
> At 12:11 AM 6/29/02 +0200, Hongli Lai wrote:
> I am aware of that.  But the problem *could* be fixed by GCC ensuring that
> from the time it started until the time it wrote the result was at least
> one second long.  It would NOT be the RIGHT place to fix it, but it WOULD
> guarantee that the timestamps all differed.

I call that a hack. When I type make in DO$ or in Linux, I almost never
get a "clock skew detected" (once in every 1000 compiles it may happen).
So the problem must be somewhere in Dev-C++, but I can't figure out what
might have caused it.
And putting a delay in GCC, not the IDE, will only slow things down.

Oh BTW... I suggest you to submit a solution to the authors of GNU make.
I've never seen one line of GNU make's source code, so there's nothing
much I can do about it.

RE: [Dev-C++] C#

[Ioannis V. <no...@ho...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf 
> Of Bob Wilson
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 7:36 PM
> To: Dev-C++ User Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] C#
> 
> 
> Ioannis, et al.,
> 
> > There is much hype around C# because MS wants to lock in 
> programmers.
> > The same happens for SUN's Java, Borland's Delphi and other
> > non-standardised languages.
> 
> While I have not seen anything from Borland (I really haven't 
> looked), the
> local Delphi SIG says that Borland has announced that the 
> next version of
> Delphi will be fully .NET compatible. The concern in the 
> Delphi community is
> that Microsoft will turn is back on .NET if it does not live up to its
> promise and Borland will be left holding the bag.


Some *very important thing* many of you may not know. .NET is not a
Windows API. Windows & .NET will *coexist* for some time. As the time
passes .NET will be growing indepedently and coexisting with Windows.
The last thing about this coexistence that i have heared, is it will
continuw till "Blackcomb" which would be the last Windows version! I do
not know if this coexistence has been extended in the future, but
Windows & .NET will not coexist forever!

.NET is a separate engine and provides graphics etc APIs.


Ioannis

* Ioannis Vranos
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys

RE: [Dev-C++] C#

[Ioannis V. <no...@ho...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf 
> Of Ramana Kumar
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:40 PM
> To: Rob; C++
> Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] C#
> 
> 
> thanks rob! it's nice to hear stuff like that :) lol
> for those who are interested:
> 
> The C# language is derived from C and C++, and it was created for the
> enterprise developer who is willing to sacrifice a bit of 
> C++'s raw power
> for more convenience and productivity. C# is modern, simple,


It has nothing to do with it at all (although it may be advertised as a
panacea).



> object-oriented, and type-safe. It borrows a lot from C and 
> C++, but it is
> considerably different in specific areas such as namespaces, classes,
> methods, and exception handling.
> 
> C# provides you with convenient features such as garbage 
> collection, type
> safety, versioning, and more.


Basically it provides all the .NET facilities, which are available for
the other languages too. Also it doesn't provide something more.



> The only "expense" is that by 
> default your
> code operates in safe mode, where no pointers are allowed. 
> Type safety pays
> off. However, if you need pointers, you can still use them via unsafe
> code--and no marshaling is involved when calling the unsafe code.
> /.../
> You are provided with a runtime environment by NGWS, the NGWS 
> runtime.

NGWS was the project name of .NET for much time ago! :) 2 years+ ago.


NGWS is now called .NET the the NGWS runtime is now called Common
Language Runtime (CLR).


> This
> runtime manages the execution of code, and it provides 
> services that make
> programming easier. As long as the compiler that you use supports this
> runtime, you will benefit from this managed execution environment.
> 
> Your guess-that the C# compiler supports the NGWS runtime - 
> is correct.
> However, it is not the only compiler that supports the NGWS 
> runtime; Visual
> Basic and C++ do so also. The code that these compilers 
> generate for NGWS
> runtime support is called managed code. The benefits your 
> applications gains
> from the NGWS runtime are
> 
> Cross-language integration (through the Common Language Specification)
> 
> Automatic memory management (garbage collection)
> 
> Cross-language exception handling (unified unwinding)
> 
> Enhanced security (including type safety)
> 
> Versioning support (the end of "DLL hell")
> 
> Simplified model for component interaction


All these are available for all languages too (currently only for the
languages supported by VS 7 .NET, that is C++, C#, VB, Jscript(?)).



Ioannis

* Ioannis Vranos
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys

Re: [Dev-C++] Am I too longwinded?

[Daniel G. <sp...@ho...>]

Don't worry, I like information - the more the better. Just stick it in :)

>From: "Mac Reiter" <re...@no...>
>To: dev...@li...
>Subject: [Dev-C++] Am I too longwinded?
>Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 11:36:49 -0500
>
>Now that I've been here awhile, I thought I'd ask: Am I too longwinded?
>
>I try to help, but I also notice that my posts are always ridiculously
>long, and I'm not sure how helpful they are.  I am not very good at cutting
>back on the length (I hate to leave out stuff that may be necessary to
>understand context).  Should I just avoid posting?  I also do not have
>tremendous experience with Dev-C++ itself, so most of my help is in Win32
>programming topics, which tends to lead me off topic rather easily.
>
>Feel free to email me directly, unless you wish to say something to the
>group as a whole.
>-
>  _____________________________     /"\
>  Mac Reiter                        \ /    ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>  Nomadics, Inc.                     X     Against HTML Mail
>  re...@no...               / \   (To join the campaign, simply use
>                                           this in your signature.)
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
>Welcome to geek heaven.
>http://thinkgeek.com/sf
>_______________________________________________
>Dev-cpp-users mailing list
>Dev...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

RE: [Dev-C++] C#

[Ioannis V. <no...@ho...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Rob
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:05 PM
> To: dev...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] C#
> 
> 
> The way I've heard it characterized by a few people I know is 
> that C# is 
> Microsoft's Java-killer of the week. I'm actually more interested in 
> using Java for Java-esque tasks, if that's the case. It's becoming a 
> fairly mature language, and C# is brand new (and married to 
> Microsoft, 
> presumably).


Java-killer yes. I do not know if it is of the week. But it was made
primarily to make Java programmers to switch to .NET. The programmers of
the other languages can continue using the languages they currently use.


 
> C# is no threat to C++, and even if it was, the skills one picks up 
> while learning C++ are invaluable. Heck, learning C++ is even 
> making me 
> a better Python programmer!


:) C++'s way has nothing to do with C#s. Also VBs way has nothing to do
with C#s! It is simply another language, which as you suggested is
intended to lure Java programmers. .NET is an API and doesn't require to
use C#.


Ioannis

* Ioannis Vranos
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys

[Dev-C++] Am I too longwinded?

[Mac R. <re...@no...>]

Now that I've been here awhile, I thought I'd ask: Am I too longwinded?

I try to help, but I also notice that my posts are always ridiculously
long, and I'm not sure how helpful they are.  I am not very good at cutting
back on the length (I hate to leave out stuff that may be necessary to
understand context).  Should I just avoid posting?  I also do not have
tremendous experience with Dev-C++ itself, so most of my help is in Win32
programming topics, which tends to lead me off topic rather easily.

Feel free to email me directly, unless you wish to say something to the
group as a whole.
-
 _____________________________     /"\
 Mac Reiter                        \ /    ASCII Ribbon Campaign
 Nomadics, Inc.                     X     Against HTML Mail
 re...@no...               / \   (To join the campaign, simply use
                                          this in your signature.)
                                          

RE: [Dev-C++] C#

[Ioannis V. <no...@ho...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li... 
> [mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf 
> Of Ramana Kumar
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 3:49 PM
> To: Teodorescu Cristian; C++
> Subject: RE: [Dev-C++] C#
> 
> 
> ok, cool, so C# is interpreted? (and always will be? - i 


It requires the CLR, as Java requires the JVM.



> guess it has to be)
> that is great news to me.
> from what i read tonight (on the internet at various places) 
> C# is designed
> primarily at enterprise level, to drastically increase 
> productivity and
> convenience at the cost of a loss in C++'s raw power.
> so, i guess C# is more a replacement of java than of c++?

It is Yet Another Proprietarry Language (Java is too although it will
probably annoy you :) ).


> cristian wrote that he is learning c# and that it can do all 
> that c++ does


It can't.



> and is as easy as vb (which are all correct for this purpose) 


It is simple if it is what you mean (i prefer the term simplistic).



> and it just so
> happens that i was in the middle of writing a long program 
> using win32api in
> c++ which i anticipate to finish in a year or two (one man 
> job!). 


C# uses the .NET API. You can use the .NET API in C++ too. It is the
same API for all languages (C#, C++, VB, ...). I have already bought a
book to learn .NET (Win32 will not be used anymore). So you can use the
same simple system-depedent API for all languages which is a good thing.




> my fear
> was that i should be looking at switching to c# in this early stage of
> development. it seems now, hopefully, that c++ is still the way to go?
> thanks cristian and others

C++'s way has nothing to do with C#s way. The same applies for VBs way
etc.


Ioannis

* Ioannis Vranos
* Programming pages: http://www.noicys.cjb.net
* Alternative URL: http://run.to/noicys