dev-cpp-users — Dev-C++ users discussion list

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Michael C U. <mu...@cb...>]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Daniel Glenfield wrote:

> You can create a window in 5 lines, but won't that be very high level? With
> the windows API you have other things to set up. Or is there a more detailed
> version that takes 30 lines of code?

With the Windows API, you have to set up a lot of things manually that the
toolkit's class will set up for you automatically. Example, if you want to
load an image in a window and be able to scroll that image, the toolkit
has a class that will automatically set up the scrollbars for you. With
the Windows API, the scrollbars have to be manually programmed to
determine how far their range should be, how far it should move with each
click, how far it should move the image with each click, where the image
ends so that it doesn't scroll past the end, etc. You also have to
manually program the scrollbar movement and set its position. And that
won't even give you the ability to use the arrow keys, the page up/page
down keys, or the scroll wheel. If you want those, it's more manual
programming. The result is that it can literally take 80 or 90 lines of
code just to get a decent scrollbar using the Windows API. Using a high
level toolkit, you can probably do it in less than 10. In Java Swing, I
just did it with 3 lines of code. Literally, it took me 3 lines of code to
do what takes about 90 lines of code to do using the Windows API.

So yes, you are working at a much higher level with a toolkit. But
generally, that is a good thing. It lets you concentrate on what you want
to do (display a scrollable image), rather than how to do what you want to
do (implement a bunch of math formulas and such to determine how far the
image should scroll with each mouse click on a scroll arrow, how far the
scrollbar should move in response, etc.)

Mike

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Daniel G. <sp...@ho...>]

You can create a window in 5 lines, but won't that be very high level? With 
the windows API you have other things to set up. Or is there a more detailed 
version that takes 30 lines of code?


>From: Goran Rakić <go...@de...>
>To: dev...@li...
>Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn
>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:56:56 +0100
>
>Dana četvrtak 15. januar 2004. 21:25, Michal Molhanec je napisao/la:
> > Michael C Urban wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I would start with the wxWindows toolkit. It's cross platform, and 
>easier
> > > to learn than either the Win API or GTK. GTK also is somewhat buggy on
> > > Win32 yet, and its widgets look rather out of place since it draws its
> > > own widgets instead of using the native Win32 ones.
> >
> > GTK+ can look nearly native:
> > http://gtk-wimp.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > > wxWindows is probably your best bet. Easier to learn than GTK. Better
> > > Windows support, and more cross-platform.
> >
> > IMHO is GTK easier to learn than wxWin. But IMHO it makes much more
> > sense to compare wxWindows to gtkmm and I think that gtkmm + glademm is
> > really simple to use. glademm uses much modern C++ than wxWin
>
>Gtk is easier, and I suggest you to try GTKmm and glademm. It is very good 
>GUI
>toolkit and it is not buggy at all.
>
>On the other hand, you can get a window in FLTK in 5 lines of code! It is 
>very
>fast, tiny and ... GUI toolkit, but it is not to be used with so called
>"mainstream windows applications" as it donot support native windows look.
>eFLTK on the other hand support some way of theming, so you can try to make
>it more Windowish...
>
>wxWin is big MFC like GUI library and I donot feel confortable when using 
>it.
>I donot know why, I simply donot like that style.
>
>Goran
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004
>Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration
>See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA.
>http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn
>_______________________________________________
>Dev-cpp-users mailing list
>Dev...@li...
>TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users

_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Michael C U. <mu...@cb...>]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004, Daniel K. O. wrote:

> Actually, you just can't update the GUI from other threads.

Yeah... That's what "not thread safe" means.

Mike

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Daniel K. O. <dan...@ya...>]

Michael C Urban wrote:

>If you use GTK though, be aware that most of its widgets are not thread
>safe in MS Windows. (That's what I mean by buggy. They are thread safe in
>Linux. But you can run into problems on Windows.)
>  
>


Actually, you just can't update the GUI from other threads.


As Tor once said:

[quote from http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2001-November/msg00227.html ]
I understand that in X11 the situation is different as the X server
naturally knows nothing about threads in the client, so as long as the
client (GTK+) itself knows what it is doing and uses appropriate
locking, there shouldn't be any problems in operating on the same
windows or other X11 objects from different threads (?).

But Windows knows the thread that created each window, and some
operations on a window from another thread might cause lots of fun
like deadlocks unless the application programmer is very careful with
what the window owning thread might be doing at the time another
thread tries to operate on the window.
[/quote]


Also, a quote from Tristan:

[quote from http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-app-devel-list/2003-July/msg00015.html ]
you can still write a multi-threaded application with _ONE_THREAD_THAT_UPDATES_THE_GUI_.
[/quote]


You just have to use g_idle_add to make the updates run inside the main 
thread.




Daniel K. O.

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Michael C U. <mu...@cb...>]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Goran [utf-8] Raki=C4^G wrote:

> Gtk is easier, and I suggest you to try GTKmm and glademm. It is very goo=
d GUI
> toolkit and it is not buggy at all.

If you use GTK though, be aware that most of its widgets are not thread
safe in MS Windows. (That's what I mean by buggy. They are thread safe in
Linux. But you can run into problems on Windows.)

Mike

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Michael C U. <mu...@cb...>]

WinFX is the new managed API that will replace the Win32 API in Longhorn.
Basically, the current incarnation of .NET is a subset of the WinFX API.
So if you have seen .NET code, and how it creates windows and such, you
have seen what the WinFX API is going to look like.

Mike

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Mohammed Iqbal wrote:

> > But wxWindows is broken when the Win32 API goes away too, unless it is
> > completely rewritten on the Windows platform to use the WinFX API. All
>
>
> What is WinFX?
>
>
> Mohammed
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004
> Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration
> See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA.
> http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn
> _______________________________________________
> Dev-cpp-users mailing list
> Dev...@li...
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
>

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Goran <go...@de...>]

Dana =C4=8Detvrtak 15. januar 2004. 21:25, Michal Molhanec je napisao/la:
> Michael C Urban wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would start with the wxWindows toolkit. It's cross platform, and easi=
er
> > to learn than either the Win API or GTK. GTK also is somewhat buggy on
> > Win32 yet, and its widgets look rather out of place since it draws its
> > own widgets instead of using the native Win32 ones.
>
> GTK+ can look nearly native:
> http://gtk-wimp.sourceforge.net/
>
> > wxWindows is probably your best bet. Easier to learn than GTK. Better
> > Windows support, and more cross-platform.
>
> IMHO is GTK easier to learn than wxWin. But IMHO it makes much more
> sense to compare wxWindows to gtkmm and I think that gtkmm + glademm is
> really simple to use. glademm uses much modern C++ than wxWin

Gtk is easier, and I suggest you to try GTKmm and glademm. It is very good =
GUI=20
toolkit and it is not buggy at all.

On the other hand, you can get a window in FLTK in 5 lines of code! It is v=
ery=20
fast, tiny and ... GUI toolkit, but it is not to be used with so called=20
"mainstream windows applications" as it donot support native windows look.=
=20
eFLTK on the other hand support some way of theming, so you can try to make=
=20
it more Windowish...

wxWin is big MFC like GUI library and I donot feel confortable when using i=
t.=20
I donot know why, I simply donot like that style.

Goran

[Dev-C++] Yet another noob question!

[P.T. W. M. <pt...@ea...>]

In MS code, you see "__stdcall".  After looking this up on the MSDN site, 
I'm still not sure how to "convert" code to compile on Dev-C++, rather than 
with this VC++ specific compiler directive.

I'm having a similar issue with the __declaspec(dllexport), but if I had to 
guess, I'm guessing that I have to manually create a ".DEF" file, whatever 
that is.

Thanks,

Patrick

P.S.  Thanks for all the opinions about where to start with the GUI.

Re: [Dev-C++] Re: Hello + problem in concept_check.h

[Vale G. <val...@at...>]

JR -

> I have a problem when trying to compile one of my CPP project, always the
same, concerninig the following declaration in the concept_check.h template
file:
>
>                      #define __glibcpp_function_requires(..)
>
> The message  I have is the following :
>
>                      badly punctuated parameter list in '#define'

In my copy of the concept_check.h file, the line reads: #define
__glibcpp_function_requires(...)

Try using three dots for the ellipsis between the parentheses.

For some fun, you might also turn on some of the extra warnings available in
Dev-C++.  Project > Project Options > Parameters > C++ compiler:

-Wall
-W
-pedantic

and even

-Weffc++

Chuck

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Michal M. <mol...@se...>]

Michael C Urban wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would start with the wxWindows toolkit. It's cross platform, and easier
> to learn than either the Win API or GTK. GTK also is somewhat buggy on
> Win32 yet, and its widgets look rather out of place since it draws its own
> widgets instead of using the native Win32 ones.

GTK+ can look nearly native:
http://gtk-wimp.sourceforge.net/

> wxWindows is probably your best bet. Easier to learn than GTK. Better
> Windows support, and more cross-platform.

IMHO is GTK easier to learn than wxWin. But IMHO it makes much more 
sense to compare wxWindows to gtkmm and I think that gtkmm + glademm is 
really simple to use. glademm uses much modern C++ than wxWin

generally speaking, there isn't really good C++ GUI library, for each of 
them you can create list of disadvantages

[Dev-C++] Re: Hello + problem in concept_check.h

[J.R D'A. <jr...@be...>]

Hi (again)

My apologize for not having written my question properly.
Here it is:

I am running version beta 8 (4.9.8.0) on NT4.0.
I am starting to study Dev-C++ cos we want to move our Visual C++ code 
to such a nice freeware IDE.

I have a problem when trying to compile one of my CPP project, always 
the same, concerninig the following declaration in the concept_check.h 
template file:

                     #define __glibcpp_function_requires(..)

The message  I have is the following :

                     badly punctuated parameter list in '#define'

Any help would be very much appreciated...

Thanks

JR

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Mohammed I. <mi...@ac...>]

> But wxWindows is broken when the Win32 API goes away too, unless it is
> completely rewritten on the Windows platform to use the WinFX API. All


What is WinFX?


Mohammed 

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Michael C U. <mu...@cb...>]

Hi,

I would start with the wxWindows toolkit. It's cross platform, and easier
to learn than either the Win API or GTK. GTK also is somewhat buggy on
Win32 yet, and its widgets look rather out of place since it draws its own
widgets instead of using the native Win32 ones.

As far as the Win API, it's good to have some familarity with it, but most
people don't program with it directly anymore except for when the toolkit
can't do what they need. The main problem is that it is just too time
consuming. For example, it can literally take 100 lines of code using the
Win API to do what you can do in 10 lines of code with a toolkit like
wxWindows. Using the Win32 API directly is also more error prone.

wxWindows is probably your best bet. Easier to learn than GTK. Better
Windows support, and more cross-platform.

Mike

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, P.T. Waugh MA wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As a new programmer targeting the Windows environment, am I better off
> learning the WINAPI, wxWindows, or GTK?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004
> Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration
> See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA.
> http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn
> _______________________________________________
> Dev-cpp-users mailing list
> Dev...@li...
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
>

[Dev-C++] Hello + problem in concept_check.h

[J.R D'A. <jr...@be...>]

Hello everybody !

I am starting to study Dev-C++ cos we want to move our Visual C++ code 
to such a nice freeware IDE.

I have a problem when trying to compile one of my CPP project, always 
the same, concerninig the following declaration in the concept_check.h 
template file:

                     #define __glibcpp_function_requires(..)

The message  I have is the following :

                     badly punctuated parameter list in '#define'

Any help would be very much appreciated...

Thanks

JR

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Michael C U. <mu...@cb...>]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Oliver Brandt wrote:

> looking forward into the future microsoft=B4s winapi is dead. Because
> "Longhorn" has no winapi anymore. I don=B4t know what comes then
> but you have to learn a new api. So I think wxwindows is very easy
> to use, it=B4s a crossplattform toolkit and is=B4s very mature.

Well, the Win32API is depricated. But it will be around for awhile yet.
Microsoft can't just get rid of it with Longhorn because that will break
Legacy apps.

But wxWindows is broken when the Win32 API goes away too, unless it is
completely rewritten on the Windows platform to use the WinFX API. All
wxWindows does is wrap native Win32 API functions in classes and such.

Re: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Oliver B. <the...@gm...>]

>>As a new programmer targeting the Windows environment, am I better off
>>learning the WINAPI, wxWindows, or GTK?

looking forward into the future microsoft´s winapi is dead. Because
"Longhorn" has no winapi anymore. I don´t know what comes then
but you have to learn a new api. So I think wxwindows is very easy
to use, it´s a crossplattform toolkit and is´s very mature. In com-
bination with Dev-C++ you have a very powerfull environment under
windows and linux to develop cool apps. Not to forget: FOX-Toolkit!
Look here: www.fox-toolkit.org

Regards Olli

-- 
icq: 172670232
homepage: http://www.the-unchallenged.de
Aus aktuellem Anlaß: http://schmidt-soll-bleiben.de/

RE: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Ken B. <ke...@al...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev...@li...
> [mailto:dev...@li...]On Behalf Of P.T.
> Waugh MA
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:58 PM
> To: dev...@li...
> Subject: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn
>
>
> Hi,
>
> As a new programmer targeting the Windows environment, am I better off
> learning the WINAPI, wxWindows, or GTK?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick
>
If you learn wxWindows you'll be able to compile programs for Windows,
Linux, and, I believe Macs from the same source code. Everything you need is
opensource and there are inexpensive tools to help, too.

Instead of limiting yourself to "Microsoft" Windows users, you'll be
expanding your potential to include Linux "Xwindows" users too. And,
possibly, helping to provide the public with OS choices. "We can't use Linux
(or Mac) because it doesn't run Patrick's "Spectacular Can't Run Our
Business Without It Software", Oh, I see it does" ;-D

Just my 1/2 cent worth; off my soap box now.

Ken Bradford
Alpha II Service, Inc.

RE: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[Daniel G. <sp...@ho...>]

The windows API seems a good idea. I'm a windows programmer but I've never 
touched wxWindows or GTK


>From: "P.T. Waugh MA" <pt...@ea...>
>To: dev...@li...
>Subject: [Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn
>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:57:50 -0800
>
>Hi,
>
>As a new programmer targeting the Windows environment, am I better off 
>learning the WINAPI, wxWindows, or GTK?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Patrick
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004
>Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration
>See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA.
>http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn
>_______________________________________________
>Dev-cpp-users mailing list
>Dev...@li...
>TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users

_________________________________________________________________
Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

[Dev-C++] Offtopic: Advice on GUI to learn

[P.T. W. M. <pt...@ea...>]

Hi,

As a new programmer targeting the Windows environment, am I better off 
learning the WINAPI, wxWindows, or GTK?

Thanks,

Patrick

Re: [Dev-C++] Dev-C++ and GTK+

[Michal M. <mol...@se...>]

Maya wrote:

> of the GTKmm installation? furthermore, will Dev-C++ be aware of the 
> installation and therefore create Makefile.win[s] for GTKmm programs?

simply link it with:

-lgtkmm-2.0 -lxml2 -lgtk-win32-2.0 -lgdk-win32-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lgdi32 
-lole32 -luuid -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lpangowin32-1.0 -lgdi32 
-lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -lglib-2.0 -latkmm-1.0 
-lgdkmm-2.0 -lglibmm-2.0 -lpangomm-1.0 -lsigc-1.2

or if you're using glademm:

-lglademm -lgtkmm-2.0 -lglade-2.0 -lxml2 -lgtk-win32-2.0 -lgdk-win32-2.0 
-lgthread-2.0 -lgdi32 -lole32 -luuid -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 
-lpangowin32-1.0 -lgdi32 -lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 
-lglib-2.0 -latkmm-1.0 -lgdkmm-2.0 -lglibmm-2.0 -lpangomm-1.0 -lsigc-1.2

[Dev-C++] Dev-C++ and GTK+

[Maya <Esc...@ne...>]

First, a pressing problems with GTK. After installing FLTK, I could 
select GUI->FLTK when opening a new project. That's not the case with 
GTK though, what can I do so that I can select a GTK+ project?
Second and most importantly, I'd like to thank you Michal for directing 
me to GTKmm for MSW, I am doing the down load as I am typing this email, 
so I have not done any reading on what is in it, thus perhaps a rather 
ignorant question, is the Dev-C++ installation of GTK+ going to be aware 
of the GTKmm installation? furthermore, will Dev-C++ be aware of the 
installation and therefore create Makefile.win[s] for GTKmm programs?

TIA

-- 

FYI
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall/abbrev.html

E-Mail Policy
http://www.vif.com/users/escalante/Email_Policy.html

* You cannot exercise your power to a point of humiliation.
                               - Jean Chretien

* The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the 
  power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty 
  innocent, and that's power. 
                                - Malcom X
* "Innocent until proven guilty", no... not in Canada!!

[Dev-C++] Off-topic: Forums for managed C++

[Daniel G. <sp...@ho...>]

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone knew of a good forum to get questions and answers 
on Managed C++ questions apart from Tek-tips.com and codeproject.com . Any 
ideas?

Thanks,
Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Re: [Dev-C++] any java bindings for GTK+ that work on win32

[Michal M. <mi...@mo...>]

Michael C Urban wrote:

> Personally, I would stick with Swing, because it is not subject to
> Microsoft's whims of changing the API. Why? Because only the lowest level
> functions for creating a window actually use native API calls in Swing.
> Everything else, including buttons, lists, internal frames, etc., are all
> written in Java itself, and have no interaction with the underlying
> Windows API.
> 
> That means it is going to be a lot safer when Microsoft decides to make
> the Win32 API go away. It's going to come depricated in Longhorn in favor
> of the WinFX API, which basically means the Win32 API will gradually be
> phased out of service.

that will never happen, because:
1) MS never changed behavior of an officialy published API (even WinXP 
still supports Win16 or os/2 1.0 apps)
2) there are thousands of application written for Win32 API
3) MS is not more interested in this API as they are focused on .Net GUI API
4) using SWT you are sticked to SWT API not Win32 API
5) you can use SWT/GTK+ on Win32 version if you don't want

but OK, if you think you have enough power for Swing (e.g. Pentium 
XXVIII HT 1233THz, 32423423GB RAM or something like that :-) )

Re: [Dev-C++] GTKmm?

[Michal M. <mi...@mo...>]

Maya wrote:

> Is there a GTKmm.devpack?

not a devpak, but self-executable installer for MinGW is here:

http://www.pcpm.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/index.html

[Dev-C++] help!

[neo <de...@ey...>]

hi,everyone.

would you like to tell me  where i could find the code of the functions of
library?(devc++)

thx in advance.





--http://www.eyou.com
--Îȶ¨¿É¿¿µÄµç×ÓÐÅÏä  ÓïÒôÓʼþ  Òƶ¯ÊéÇ©  ÈÕÀú·þÎñ  ÍøÂç´æ´¢...ÒÚÓÊδ¾¡

--http://vip.eyou.com
--¿ì¿ìµÇ¼ÒÚÓÊVIPÐÅÏä  ×¢²áÄúÖÐÒâµÄÓû§Ãû