dbmjui-devel — Topics related to dbmjui development are discussed here

[Dbmjui-devel] FASD project: Online survey launched

[<ben...@id...>]

Dear Open Source developer

I am doing a research project on "Fun and Software Development" in which I kindly invite you to participate.
You will find the online survey under http://fasd.ethz.ch/qsf/. The questionnaire consists of 53 questions and you will need about 15 minutes to complete it.

With the FASD project (Fun and Software Development) we want to define the motivational significance of fun when software developers decide to engage in Open Source projects. What is special about our research project is that a similar survey is planned with software developers in commercial firms. This procedure allows the immediate comparison between the involved individuals and the conditions of production of these two development models. Thus we hope to obtain substantial new insights to the phenomenon of Open Source Development.


With many thanks for your participation,
Benno Luthiger


PS:
The results of the survey will be published under http://www.isu.unizh.ch/fuehrung/blprojects/FASD/.
We have set up the mailing list fa...@we... for this study. Please see http://fasd.ethz.ch/qsf/mailinglist_en.html for registration to this mailing list.

_______________________________________________________________________

Benno Luthiger
Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zurich
8092 Zurich

Mail: benno.luthiger(at)id.ethz.ch
_______________________________________________________________________

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] licensing

[Thomas C. <to...@al...>]

On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 21:18, Tilo Heinrich wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
> 
> > I am not license lawyer, so until someone shows me it is illegal,
> > everything in the dbmjui cvs is covered by the gpl.
> 
> Sorry for beeing too unclear. Beeing an SAP employee, who is trying to learn
> a little bit of Java-GUI-programing in his sparetime, I have currently two
> options for spending that sparetime usefully and wise.

Ok, given the orientation I gave to the project, I do not think you can
learn anything about gui programming with dbmjui (except if you look at
the framework source code).

> 
> A) participate in the dbmjui project, if it has the chance of becoming part
> of SAP DB.

>From what I heard at the beginning of the project, some guys at SAP
decided that dbmgui will be in visual basic. I hope this is going to
change but...

> B) continue to experiment with my own prototype of a prototype.

>From a gui point of view, dbmjui is more or less complete. So now it
needs some jython scripting, or some java, as either way are possible.
So there nothing difficult left in dbmjui, only the boring part remains
:-)

> 
> That is why I asked.
> 
> Best Regards
> Tilo Heinrich
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Cataldo" <to...@al...>
> To: "Tilo Heinrich" <th...@fr...>
> Cc: <dbm...@li...>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 12:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dbmjui-devel] licensing
> 
> 
> > On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 07:24, Tilo Heinrich wrote:
> > > Hi Thomas,
> > >
> > > SAP DB is GPL'ed, but as it is used by SAP also in non GPL'ed products a
> > > contribution to the "offical" SAP DB would need the approvement of the
> > > author. What is your position on that, and what is the position of the
> used
> > > XML-Framework and SWT?
> >
> > I am not license lawyer, so until someone shows me it is illegal,
> > everything in the dbmjui cvs is covered by the gpl.
> >
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Tilo Heinrich
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies!
> > > Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships.
> > > Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more.
> > > www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Dbmjui-devel mailing list
> > > Dbm...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dbmjui-devel
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies!
> Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships.
> Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more.
> www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp
> _______________________________________________
> Dbmjui-devel mailing list
> Dbm...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dbmjui-devel
> 
> 

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] licensing

[Tilo H. <th...@fr...>]

Hi Thomas,

> I am not license lawyer, so until someone shows me it is illegal,
> everything in the dbmjui cvs is covered by the gpl.

Sorry for beeing too unclear. Beeing an SAP employee, who is trying to learn
a little bit of Java-GUI-programing in his sparetime, I have currently two
options for spending that sparetime usefully and wise.

A) participate in the dbmjui project, if it has the chance of becoming part
of SAP DB.
B) continue to experiment with my own prototype of a prototype.

That is why I asked.

Best Regards
Tilo Heinrich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Cataldo" <to...@al...>
To: "Tilo Heinrich" <th...@fr...>
Cc: <dbm...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Dbmjui-devel] licensing


> On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 07:24, Tilo Heinrich wrote:
> > Hi Thomas,
> >
> > SAP DB is GPL'ed, but as it is used by SAP also in non GPL'ed products a
> > contribution to the "offical" SAP DB would need the approvement of the
> > author. What is your position on that, and what is the position of the
used
> > XML-Framework and SWT?
>
> I am not license lawyer, so until someone shows me it is illegal,
> everything in the dbmjui cvs is covered by the gpl.
>
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Tilo Heinrich
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies!
> > Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships.
> > Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more.
> > www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dbmjui-devel mailing list
> > Dbm...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dbmjui-devel
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] licensing

[Thomas C. <to...@al...>]

On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 07:24, Tilo Heinrich wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
> 
> SAP DB is GPL'ed, but as it is used by SAP also in non GPL'ed products a
> contribution to the "offical" SAP DB would need the approvement of the
> author. What is your position on that, and what is the position of the used
> XML-Framework and SWT?

I am not license lawyer, so until someone shows me it is illegal,
everything in the dbmjui cvs is covered by the gpl.

> 
> Best Regards,
> Tilo Heinrich
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies!
> Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships.
> Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more.
> www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp
> _______________________________________________
> Dbmjui-devel mailing list
> Dbm...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dbmjui-devel
> 
> 

[Dbmjui-devel] licensing

[Tilo H. <th...@fr...>]

Hi Thomas,

SAP DB is GPL'ed, but as it is used by SAP also in non GPL'ed products a
contribution to the "offical" SAP DB would need the approvement of the
author. What is your position on that, and what is the position of the used
XML-Framework and SWT?

Best Regards,
Tilo Heinrich

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] Swing vs SWT

[<th...@al...>]

Quoting Laurent Vaills <lau...@dm...>:

> Hello
> 
> On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 07:43, Tilo Heinrich wrote:
> > Hi Sven,
> > 
> > > I wouldn't have started using Eclipse if it was using Swing, that's for
> > > sure.
> > 
> > And that is why? The UML-Tool Together is using Swing and it is IMHO
> working
> > and looking just as nice as Eclipse.
> > 
> > >Is there any conceptional advantage over Swing?
> > 
> > That is why I'm asking. Swing is somewhat of a standard, isn't it? Most
> > people have heard about it or even know the basics (that would be me). And
> > you can find information about it anywhere. Are there any books or other
> > resources about SWT? I mean SAP is switching from ABAP to Java because
> more
> 
> SWT is known to be faster than Swing because it uses native widget to
> render the GUI components. If the component you want to use is not
> available with the native widget toolkit (gtk2, motif, win32,...) it
> uses a Java one. 
> 
> Swing has become a standard de facto since it was the only GUI framework
> available with Java AFAIK (and it's *only* a layer on top of the AWT
> classes).
> Now we have the choice : either using Swing or SWT (as for Linux you can
> use gtk+, qt, ...).
> The main drawback for SWT is that we have to install the new libraries
> and classes after a fresh installation of a JDK. Furthermore the SWT API
> is know to be simpler that the Swing one.

Yes, swt api does not allow a few things. The only example I can come up with is
custom table renderers. Except renderers, most of the thing you can do with
swing are doable with swt. Of course, as the API is not peer based, it might be
 a little hard to used at first sight.

> About the documentation, we have to wait that someone writes a tutorial
> like the Swing one but for SWT ! But be patient, SWT is quite young
> against Swing.

Sorry, but swt is not young. It is older than swing as it is the toolkit used in
visual smalltalk, the ancestor of visual age.

> 
> As Thomas explained in a previous mail, with a clean MVC design it
> should be possible to have a common model (the core of dbmjui) with
> different views (Swing, SWT, ...) Hey, I did say that will be easy to
> do, just possible !

Well providing a swing implementation is not that hard, as the design of the xml
is based on the api. For example, the panel xml element is a panel with a border
layout. The swing implementation of the framework is smaller than the swt one.


> 
> Regards,
> Laurent
> 
> > poeple know it (even if there are a lot of books about ABAP :)). Not to
> even
> > mention that VB stuff we currently stuck with for DBMGUI and SQL Studio.
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > Tilo Heinrich
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sven Köhler" <sko...@up...>
> > To: "Tilo Heinrich" <th...@fr...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:12 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Dbmjui-devel] Swing vs SWT
> > 
> > 
> > > > In other words gtk2 is the "only" advantage, as Swing is coming with a
> > win32
> > > > and a motif lookand feel too. On the other hand Swing is pretty
> > tweakable
> > > > (e.g., if you are crazy enough, SAP-like:
> > > > http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/sce/index.html).
> > >
> > > I wouldn't have started using Eclipse if it was using Swing, that's for
> > > sure.
> > >
> > > > And please don't get me wrong, I'm just asking, as I have basicaly 0
> > > > expirience in GUI development.
> > >
> > > For me, SWT is "just another GUI framework", that might be worth using
> > > it. Is there any conceptional advantage over Swing?
> > >
> > > > P.S.: Were there only 6 messages since 19.01.2003 on this list? Or
> have
> > I
> > > > missed a lot?
> > >
> > > I think there were no mails in that time. don't ask me, why it was that
> > > quiet.
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> > Welcome to geek heaven.
> > http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dbmjui-devel mailing list
> > Dbm...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dbmjui-devel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> Dbmjui-devel mailing list
> Dbm...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dbmjui-devel
> 
> 

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] Swing vs SWT

[<th...@al...>]

Quoting Tilo Heinrich <th...@fr...>:

> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to ask, what was wrong with Swing?
> 
> So far we have:
> 
> 1.) "This will provide a better look'n'feel integration with the native
> platform"
> 2.)"SWT is available on the following platforms : linux/gtk2, linux/motif,
> win32, osx, aix/motif, solaris/motif, solaris/gtk2."
> 
> In other words gtk2 is the "only" advantage, as Swing is coming with a win32

For a gnome2 user, that's pretty important :-). I hardly ever use win32, and
hasn't used cde in the last 2 years.

> and a motif lookand feel too. On the other hand Swing is pretty tweakable
> (e.g., if you are crazy enough, SAP-like:
> http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/sce/index.html).
> 
> And please don't get me wrong, I'm just asking, as I have basicaly 0
> expirience in GUI development.

Ok, swt has a smaller memory footprint, and is somewhat faster than swing. But
using the native platform, it integrates cleanly. For example, the win32 swing
lnf does not support win32 themes (you know the winxp toolbars,...). jdk1.4.2
will provide a gtk look'n'feel, but they already stated that they will only
support/provide the default theme and the bluecurve theme (the redhat one). It
will still be an emulated lnf, that does not really follow my platform : for
exemple, if I want my java apps to have the same font as my file manager under
linux, I'm have to tweak the app source code, or the jdk font.properties.

As a sidenote, dbmjui ui is not written "by hand". All the ui uses a
cross-toolkit framework, so I might provide the swing backend for the framework
at later time.

> 
> Best Regards,
> Tilo Heinrich
> 
> P.S.: Were there only 6 messages since 19.01.2003 on this list? Or have I
> missed a lot?

No, the list is not very active. But using swt keeps it alive :-)

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> Dbmjui-devel mailing list
> Dbm...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dbmjui-devel
> 
> 

[Dbmjui-devel] Problems starting dbmjui 0.1.9 on SUSE 7.1

[Tilo H. <th...@fr...>]

Sorry for bothering you all twice a day, but I cannot start dbmjui 0.1.9 on
my SUSE 7.1 linux. Any helping hand appreciated:

Here is what I did:

I extended my LD_LIBRARY_PATH with the dbmjui directory and with /usr/lib,
as it contains a lot of gtk libraries:

>echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
/bin:/opt/kde/lib:/root/.kde2/lib:/opt/kde2/lib:/dosd/Tilos/dbmjui/dbmjui-0.
1.9-executable/Linux:/usr/lib

ls -la /usr/lib/*gtk*
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           19 Mar  5  2001
/usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 -> libgtk-1.2.so.0.5.3
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root      1400362 Jan 19  2001
/usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0.5.3
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root      1741538 Jan 19  2001 /usr/lib/libgtk.a
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root          725 Jan 19  2001 /usr/lib/libgtk.la
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           19 Mar  5  2001
/usr/lib/libgtk.so -> libgtk-1.2.so.0.5.3
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root       193330 Jan 19  2001 /usr/lib/libgtkgl.a
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root          642 Jan 19  2001 /usr/lib/libgtkgl.la
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           17 Mar  5  2001
/usr/lib/libgtkgl.so -> libgtkgl.so.5.0.0
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           17 Mar  5  2001
/usr/lib/libgtkgl.so.5 -> libgtkgl.so.5.0.0
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root       139205 Jan 19  2001
/usr/lib/libgtkgl.so.5.0.0
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root       456186 Jan 21  2001
/usr/lib/libgtkxmhtml.a
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root          802 Jan 21  2001
/usr/lib/libgtkxmhtml.la
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           21 Mar  5  2001
/usr/lib/libgtkxmhtml.so -> libgtkxmhtml.so.1.0.1
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           21 Mar  5  2001
/usr/lib/libgtkxmhtml.so.1 -> libgtkxmhtml.so.1.0.1
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root       399390 Jan 21  2001
/usr/lib/libgtkxmhtml.so.1.0.1
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root       509970 Jan 19  2001
/usr/lib/libguilegtk-1.2.a
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root          792 Jan 19  2001
/usr/lib/libguilegtk-1.2.la
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           24 Mar  5  2001
/usr/lib/libguilegtk-1.2.so -> libguilegtk-1.2.so.0.0.0
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           24 Mar  5  2001
/usr/lib/libguilegtk-1.2.so.0 -> libguilegtk-1.2.so.0.0.0
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root       509127 Jan 19  2001
/usr/lib/libguilegtk-1.2.so.0.0.0

Nonetheless it seems, that I have a problem loading gtk :

java -cp ./sapdb-jdbc-bin-7.4.03.01a.jar:./swt.jar:. -jar dbmjui.jar
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError:
/dosd/Tilos/dbmjui/dbmjui-0.1.9-executable/Linux/libswt-pi-gtk-2124.so:
shared object not open
        at java.lang.ClassLoader$NativeLibrary.load(Native Method)
        at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary0(ClassLoader.java:1473)
        at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary(ClassLoader.java:1397)
        at java.lang.Runtime.loadLibrary0(Runtime.java:788)
        at java.lang.System.loadLibrary(System.java:832)
        at org.eclipse.swt.internal.Library.loadLibrary(Library.java:104)
        at org.eclipse.swt.internal.gtk.OS.<clinit>(OS.java:19)
        at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display.createDisplay(Display.java:435)
        at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display.create(Display.java:422)
        at org.eclipse.swt.graphics.Device.<init>(Device.java:107)
        at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display.<init>(Display.java:291)
        at org.eclipse.swt.widgets.Display.<init>(Display.java:287)
        at fr.aliacom.form.swt.SWTToolkit.init(SWTToolkit.java:42)
        at
fr.aliacom.form.common.ToolkitManager.registerToolkit(ToolkitManager.java:14
)
        at fr.aliacom.dbmjui.tests.Start.main(Start.java:14)

Thanks for the help,
Tilo Heinrich

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] Swing vs SWT

[Laurent V. <lau...@dm...>]

Hello

On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 07:43, Tilo Heinrich wrote:
> Hi Sven,
>=20
> > I wouldn't have started using Eclipse if it was using Swing, that's for
> > sure.
>=20
> And that is why? The UML-Tool Together is using Swing and it is IMHO work=
ing
> and looking just as nice as Eclipse.
>=20
> >Is there any conceptional advantage over Swing?
>=20
> That is why I'm asking. Swing is somewhat of a standard, isn't it? Most
> people have heard about it or even know the basics (that would be me). An=
d
> you can find information about it anywhere. Are there any books or other
> resources about SWT? I mean SAP is switching from ABAP to Java because mo=
re

SWT is known to be faster than Swing because it uses native widget to
render the GUI components. If the component you want to use is not
available with the native widget toolkit (gtk2, motif, win32,...) it
uses a Java one.=20

Swing has become a standard de facto since it was the only GUI framework
available with Java AFAIK (and it's *only* a layer on top of the AWT
classes).
Now we have the choice : either using Swing or SWT (as for Linux you can
use gtk+, qt, ...).
The main drawback for SWT is that we have to install the new libraries
and classes after a fresh installation of a JDK. Furthermore the SWT API
is know to be simpler that the Swing one.
About the documentation, we have to wait that someone writes a tutorial
like the Swing one but for SWT ! But be patient, SWT is quite young
against Swing.

As Thomas explained in a previous mail, with a clean MVC design it
should be possible to have a common model (the core of dbmjui) with
different views (Swing, SWT, ...) Hey, I did say that will be easy to
do, just possible !

Regards,
Laurent

> poeple know it (even if there are a lot of books about ABAP :)). Not to e=
ven
> mention that VB stuff we currently stuck with for DBMGUI and SQL Studio.
>=20
> Best Regards,
> Tilo Heinrich
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sven K=F6hler" <sko...@up...>
> To: "Tilo Heinrich" <th...@fr...>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [Dbmjui-devel] Swing vs SWT
>=20
>=20
> > > In other words gtk2 is the "only" advantage, as Swing is coming with =
a
> win32
> > > and a motif lookand feel too. On the other hand Swing is pretty
> tweakable
> > > (e.g., if you are crazy enough, SAP-like:
> > > http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/sce/index.html).
> >
> > I wouldn't have started using Eclipse if it was using Swing, that's for
> > sure.
> >
> > > And please don't get me wrong, I'm just asking, as I have basicaly 0
> > > expirience in GUI development.
> >
> > For me, SWT is "just another GUI framework", that might be worth using
> > it. Is there any conceptional advantage over Swing?
> >
> > > P.S.: Were there only 6 messages since 19.01.2003 on this list? Or ha=
ve
> I
> > > missed a lot?
> >
> > I think there were no mails in that time. don't ask me, why it was that
> > quiet.
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> Dbmjui-devel mailing list
> Dbm...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dbmjui-devel

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] Swing vs SWT

[Tilo H. <th...@fr...>]

Hi Sven,

> I wouldn't have started using Eclipse if it was using Swing, that's for
> sure.

And that is why? The UML-Tool Together is using Swing and it is IMHO working
and looking just as nice as Eclipse.

>Is there any conceptional advantage over Swing?

That is why I'm asking. Swing is somewhat of a standard, isn't it? Most
people have heard about it or even know the basics (that would be me). And
you can find information about it anywhere. Are there any books or other
resources about SWT? I mean SAP is switching from ABAP to Java because more
poeple know it (even if there are a lot of books about ABAP :)). Not to even
mention that VB stuff we currently stuck with for DBMGUI and SQL Studio.

Best Regards,
Tilo Heinrich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sven Köhler" <sko...@up...>
To: "Tilo Heinrich" <th...@fr...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Dbmjui-devel] Swing vs SWT


> > In other words gtk2 is the "only" advantage, as Swing is coming with a
win32
> > and a motif lookand feel too. On the other hand Swing is pretty
tweakable
> > (e.g., if you are crazy enough, SAP-like:
> > http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/sce/index.html).
>
> I wouldn't have started using Eclipse if it was using Swing, that's for
> sure.
>
> > And please don't get me wrong, I'm just asking, as I have basicaly 0
> > expirience in GUI development.
>
> For me, SWT is "just another GUI framework", that might be worth using
> it. Is there any conceptional advantage over Swing?
>
> > P.S.: Were there only 6 messages since 19.01.2003 on this list? Or have
I
> > missed a lot?
>
> I think there were no mails in that time. don't ask me, why it was that
> quiet.
>
>

[Dbmjui-devel] Swing vs SWT

[Tilo H. <th...@fr...>]

Hi all,

I would like to ask, what was wrong with Swing?

So far we have:

1.) "This will provide a better look'n'feel integration with the native
platform"
2.)"SWT is available on the following platforms : linux/gtk2, linux/motif,
win32, osx, aix/motif, solaris/motif, solaris/gtk2."

In other words gtk2 is the "only" advantage, as Swing is coming with a win32
and a motif lookand feel too. On the other hand Swing is pretty tweakable
(e.g., if you are crazy enough, SAP-like:
http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/sce/index.html).

And please don't get me wrong, I'm just asking, as I have basicaly 0
expirience in GUI development.

Best Regards,
Tilo Heinrich

P.S.: Were there only 6 messages since 19.01.2003 on this list? Or have I
missed a lot?

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] dbmjui 0.1.90 at first sight

[<th...@al...>]

Quoting Sven Köhler <sko...@up...>:

> hi,
> 
> i've just downloaded dbmjui 0.1.90.
> 
> i see, that the step has finally been done: dmbjui is using SWT now
> (i hope we won't regret that - forgive me, but i'm still skeptical).
> 
> also new is the use of jython. what does dbmjui use it for?

If you look at the code, there is no hand "hand written" user interface code.
All the ui has been moved to XML forms. If you know how the struts framework
works, you will understand easily how this framework works.

I think it provides a clean mvc model : 

 1 using java or jython, you create all the JavaBeans you want to display and
add them to a FormContext object (HashMap<FormVariable>), similar to the session
you get in jsp/servlets development.

 2 Then you choose an xml form (your ui) and pass the name of your form, and a
form context to the FormManager (which could be called the controller).

 3 The FormManager creates the ui from the xml and creates Loader objects that
links FormVariables to FormComponents and are responsible of feeding the values
into the ui. If the FormParser find "id" attributes in the xml, the
formComponents are added to the form context, for later use.

 4 Once the ui is realized, the formmanager calls the script (or class)
referenced in the load attribute of the form element. So you can create your
beans in a Command object, in step 1, or here.

 5 Then how do you add interactivity to your ui ? for exemple, a click on a
button ? Consider the button element (and a label) you can write it using java,
or jython code :

<label id="theLabel">Some Text.</label>
<button javaAction="fr.aliacom.test.MyButtonAction" icon="Ok">Ok</button>

or 

<label id="theLabel">Some Text.</label>
<button pythonAction="my_button_action.py" icon="Ok">Ok</button>

 6 Now I want the text on my label to change when I click on the button. The
java ways, I have to write the following class (untested) :


--------------------------------------------------------
package fr.aliacom.test;

import fr.aliacom.form.FormContext;
import fr.aliacom.common.ui.ILabel;

public class MyButtonAction extends AsyncCommand {

     private FormContext ctx;
     public MyButtonAction(IForm form) {
         ctx = form.getFormContext();
     }
     public void doIt() {
         FormVariable fv = ctx.getVariable("theLabel");
         ILabel label = (ILabel) fv.getValue();
         label.setText("Another text");
     }
}
---------------------------------------------------------


If I do it the jython way, I create my_button_action.py :
---------------------------------------------------------
theLabel.text = "Another text"
--------------------------------------------------------- 

So 1 line of jython vs. 13 lines of java. Of course eclipse will generate most
of the java lines, but does it buy me anything to use the java way ? strongest
typing ? no as the formContext loses the type safety. The only advantage of the
java way is a few milliseconds on the first execution. After the first
execution, an lru caches maintains the "compiled" jython code in memory.

As you saw in the example, jython provides a really clean way to work with java
 beans. As the only thing the forms can display is javabeans, or lists of
javabeans, I think jython is the natural way to deal with them. It is less code
to write, and no loss. 

> 
> i don't know why one would want to use python in an java-applikation, 
> except that the application should be somewhat customizable via scripts 

Well I think scripting is the correct solution for every non performance
critical piece of code, like ui event handling.

> (and python would be a good choice, that's for sure).
> I would have walked the path of simple java-based plugins instead.
> 

I don't really need plugins/modules as the number of screens in dbmgui stays
pretty much the same between versions. In fact modules is one of the things I
stripped from the framework before releasing it (I also stripped rights
handling, and all the j2ee stuff that was not relevant to dbmjui). But the
number of screens in dbmgui is pretty big, so what I need is a fast ui building
solution (and no, I won't use graphical gui builders. Never did, never will).

[Dbmjui-devel] dbmjui 0.1.90 at first sight

[<sko...@up...>]

hi,

i've just downloaded dbmjui 0.1.90.

i see, that the step has finally been done: dmbjui is using SWT now
(i hope we won't regret that - forgive me, but i'm still skeptical).

also new is the use of jython. what does dbmjui use it for?

i don't know why one would want to use python in an java-applikation, 
except that the application should be somewhat customizable via scripts 
(and python would be a good choice, that's for sure).
I would have walked the path of simple java-based plugins instead.

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] dbmjui roadmap

[Laurent V. <lau...@dm...>]

On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 16:12, Sven K=F6hler wrote:
>=20
> I didn't find any page, where SWT is offered for download.
> I didn't find a page with SWT's license either.
>=20
> I know that it comes with eclipse, but is this the only way of getting SW=
T?

I think you should check the SWT FAQ :
http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/~checkout~/platform-swt-home/faq.h=
tml


I also found an email from the Mono mailing-list from someone who wrote
an Ant file to get the latest sources from cvs and build them :
http://lists.ximian.com/archives/public/mono-list/2002-July/000815.html

Laurent

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] dbmjui roadmap

[Thomas C. <tho...@al...>]

Sven Köhler wrote:
>> It isn't more or less native than awt/swing. It's just that with awt, 
>> the native libs are included with your jdk. By the way, SWT is 
>> available on the following platforms : linux/gtk2, linux/motif, win32, 
>> osx, aix/motif, solaris/motif, solaris/gtk2. I really consider SWT as 
>> a cross platform toolkit. With native look'n'feel on each target 
>> platform.
> 
> 
> sorry, you're right, but AWT/Swing are supposed to be available an any 
> platform on which java is available (OK, a java-handy won't offer any 
> AWT/Swing  - so i hope you know what i mean)

With a well written startup class (involving some java.library.path 
manipulation), and clean release targets in ant, it is possible to 
distribute swt for all the platforms you want to support and run without 
using startup script. If we include swt/win32, swt/linux/gtk2, and a 
clean documentation on how to replace the swt implementation, we cover 
most user needs.

> 
>> I would prefer to switch completely to SWT, but if everybody thinks 
>> that the swing ui is a saner default, I might reconsider. Also if look 
>> at the two directories forms-lib-common and forms-lib-swt, you can see 
>> that forms-lib-common is just a set of interface with a pluggable 
>> toolkit. I committed only the swt implementation of the interfaces, 
>> but a swing implementation is possible (and already done, but not 
>> gpl'd yet)
> 
> 
> I wouldn't like to have two GUI.

As said before I intend to have two gui only between the 0.1.5->0.2.0 
transition. After that development will be easier thanks to the xml 
forms. And there will be no swing or swt code in database manipulation 
code. Only interfaces from forms-lib-common (and java beans) are visible 
from the application logic.

> One GUI to write and bugfix is enough.

agreed.

> 
> I didn't find any page, where SWT is offered for download.
> I didn't find a page with SWT's license either.

The license is the same as eclipse, and given the recent discussions on 
the gcj mailing list, it seems free enough to be included by distributions.

> 
> I know that it comes with eclipse, but is this the only way of getting SWT?

Downloading eclipse is the only way to get it.

> 
> If i would have to choose between Swing/AWT and SWT, i would choose SWT 
> because it seems fast and quite solid (as far as i can tell by esing 
> eclipse).
> So i would migrate everything to SWT, and drop the Swing-GUI.
> 
> 

ok. And I'll add a note to the README on how to change the SWT 
implementation. I'll also add swt from win32 to CVS and update the 
startup class.

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] dbmjui roadmap

[<sko...@up...>]

> It isn't more or less native than awt/swing. It's just that with awt, 
> the native libs are included with your jdk. By the way, SWT is available 
> on the following platforms : linux/gtk2, linux/motif, win32, osx, 
> aix/motif, solaris/motif, solaris/gtk2. I really consider SWT as a cross 
> platform toolkit. With native look'n'feel on each target platform.

sorry, you're right, but AWT/Swing are supposed to be available an any 
platform on which java is available (OK, a java-handy won't offer any 
AWT/Swing  - so i hope you know what i mean)

> I would prefer to switch completely to SWT, but if everybody thinks that 
> the swing ui is a saner default, I might reconsider. Also if look at the 
> two directories forms-lib-common and forms-lib-swt, you can see that 
> forms-lib-common is just a set of interface with a pluggable toolkit. I 
> committed only the swt implementation of the interfaces, but a swing 
> implementation is possible (and already done, but not gpl'd yet)

I wouldn't like to have two GUI.
One GUI to write and bugfix is enough.

I didn't find any page, where SWT is offered for download.
I didn't find a page with SWT's license either.

I know that it comes with eclipse, but is this the only way of getting SWT?

If i would have to choose between Swing/AWT and SWT, i would choose SWT 
because it seems fast and quite solid (as far as i can tell by esing 
eclipse).
So i would migrate everything to SWT, and drop the Swing-GUI.

Re: [Dbmjui-devel] dbmjui roadmap

[Thomas C. <tho...@al...>]

Sven Köhler wrote:
>> Here's an update on what my roadmap for dbmjui is. This morning 
>> (GMT+1) I committed to cvs the beginning of the code to switch from 
>> SWING to SWT (the toolkit used by eclipse). The next version (0.2.0) 
>> will be based on  SWT. This will provide a better look'n'feel 
>> integration with the native platform. 
> 
> 
> 
> never heard of SWT, although i like eclipse!
> plz give me link or something.
> 
>> As some of you might know, using SWT is clearly harder than using 
>> SWING. So to ease development, I added a forms lib to cvs that can 
>> build SWT UIs from its XML description. To get an idea of what those 
>> XML looks like, open ressources/forms/dbmjui.xml (and follow the 
>> includes..). For now, only the linux/gtk2 version of SWT is in CVS. So 
>> if you're running linux and have gtk2 installed, you can try the SWT 
>> UI with the following  commands :
>>
>>  $ cd dbmjui
>>  $ cvs -z3 update -d
>>  $ cp lib/libswt*.so /usr/lib (or whatever is in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH)
>>  $ ant clean dist
>>  $ java -classpath dist/dbmjui.jar fr.aliacom.dbmjui.tests.Start 
> 
> 
> So SWT seems to be native.
> Do you think, that this is a good idea? (although SWT looks quite good)

It isn't more or less native than awt/swing. It's just that with awt, 
the native libs are included with your jdk. By the way, SWT is available 
on the following platforms : linux/gtk2, linux/motif, win32, osx, 
aix/motif, solaris/motif, solaris/gtk2. I really consider SWT as a cross 
platform toolkit. With native look'n'feel on each target platform.

> 
>> (The SWING ui is still the default when using java -jar dbmjui.jar) 
> 
> 
>> Don't worry, SWT will become the default only when all the features of 
>> the SWING version are moved to XML and scripts. As an added value, it 
>> well provide a better logic/presentation separation. When the move, is 
>> over, I'll release dbmjui 0.2.0. 
> 
> 
> Are there two GUIs now?

The swing ui is more or less the same as in 0.1.5 (except two added 
wizards page). The swt ui is commited so that people can comment 
on/improve the form framework and its swt implementation.

> Or will we switch to SWT if the all is moved to SWT?
> 
> 

I would prefer to switch completely to SWT, but if everybody thinks that 
the swing ui is a saner default, I might reconsider. Also if look at the 
two directories forms-lib-common and forms-lib-swt, you can see that 
forms-lib-common is just a set of interface with a pluggable toolkit. I 
committed only the swt implementation of the interfaces, but a swing 
implementation is possible (and already done, but not gpl'd yet)

[Dbmjui-devel] dbmjui roadmap

[Thomas C. <tho...@al...>]

Hi,

Here's an update on what my roadmap for dbmjui is. This morning (GMT+1) 
I committed to cvs the beginning of the code to switch from SWING to SWT 
(the toolkit used by eclipse). The next version (0.2.0) will be based on 
  SWT. This will provide a better look'n'feel integration with the 
native platform.

As some of you might know, using SWT is clearly harder than using SWING. 
So to ease development, I added a forms lib to cvs that can build SWT 
UIs from its XML description. To get an idea of what those XML looks 
like, open ressources/forms/dbmjui.xml (and follow the includes..). For 
now, only the linux/gtk2 version of SWT is in CVS. So if you're running 
linux and have gtk2 installed, you can try the SWT UI with the following 
  commands :

  $ cd dbmjui
  $ cvs -z3 update -d
  $ cp lib/libswt*.so /usr/lib (or whatever is in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH)
  $ ant clean dist
  $ java -classpath dist/dbmjui.jar fr.aliacom.dbmjui.tests.Start

(The SWING ui is still the default when using java -jar dbmjui.jar)

If everything works, you should see something that looks like 
http://dbmjui.sf.net/Screenshot-SWT.png

Don't worry, SWT will become the default only when all the features of 
the SWING version are moved to XML and scripts. As an added value, it 
well provide a better logic/presentation separation. When the move, is 
over, I'll release dbmjui 0.2.0.

If you want to try the swt version under windows, replace swt.jar, 
swt-pi.jar, libswt*.so by the dlls and jar file found in an 
eclipse-win32 build.

Thomas.