RE: [Cxtable-devel] Java on *nix
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RE: [Cxtable-devel] Java on *nix
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From: Borne Goodman-M. <bm...@eg...> - 2001-12-18 14:42:38
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It is ok to support both Swing and the AWT, and the only problem I see is that the components are different enough that it would take a decent amount of work to re-write the code for the other environment. I feel the same about my work on the ominit project, and most of the stuff I like to work on the most is in the server / networking area, so my UI is a bit on the lacking side, for now. Also, I just added skinning (via SkinLF (l2fprod.com)) to my UI yesterday, and it was VERY easy and makes a big difference. Check it out, and once things get to using Swing it should definitely be used. --bjgm On Mon, 2001-12-17 at 14:04, Williams, David wrote: > I am going to do that full-install as soon as I can... I just got an Athlon 1700 w/ XP (arggh!) but it has a CD-burner...so I think I'll download the various JDKs for the various platforms and save them permanently, so I can install them quicker... > > I think I should take a few steps to extract the last AWT out of the mandatory section, and then stabilize the current AWT release of the GUI, and re-start the GUI development in Swing... > > There's nothing inherently wrong, though, in allowing for both, is there? > > There is something for one single standardized GUI...but I also had dreams for a drag-n-drop customizable GUI... I feel the best work in the product to date the user never sees... > > ~Dave > > > David Scott Williams > Computer Associates > Marketing Representative-Sales Call Center > One Computer Associates Plaza > Islandia, New York 11749 > tel: +1 800-243-9462 ext. 73431 > tel: +1 631-342-3431 (Direct) > fax: +1 631-342-5734 > wi...@ca... > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Borne Goodman-Mace [mailto:bm...@eg...] > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:58 PM > To: Williams, David > Subject: RE: [Cxtable-devel] Java on *nix > > > How is your AWT doing now with the new linux install? I have downloaded > and am playing with SkinLF (from l2fprod.com) which allows for a VERY > niice and flexible look and feel system for Swing. You should check it > out. The best add-on for UI flexibility for Java that I have seen yet. > > --bjgm > > On Thu, 2001-12-13 at 16:58, Williams, David wrote: > > Did you ever notice that the words "robust" appeared in marketing letters at about the same time that Java appeared? (coffee--robust... ) > > > > > > Anyway... > > > > I don't really think that anything in my GUI would notice the performance hit of Swing... > > > > My issue was not actually with RedHat, but I think, rather, with the JDK's AWT implementation in Linux...although no one could duplicate it, it died fast and hard in the Motif libraries... I did not know, after all, that I had Motif libraries, so I assume that they must have come w/ Java?... maybe the install failed and I should re-download it again? I dunno... I am in the process of installing Debian right now... the "Potato"... we'll see if that is any better... ;-) > > > > > > > > David Scott Williams > > Computer Associates > > Marketing Representative-Sales Call Center > > One Computer Associates Plaza > > Islandia, New York 11749 > > tel: +1 800-243-9462 ext. 73431 > > tel: +1 631-342-3431 (Direct) > > fax: +1 631-342-5734 > > wi...@ca... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Borne Goodman-Mace [mailto:bm...@eg...] > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:44 PM > > To: cxt...@li... > > Subject: Re: [Cxtable-devel] Java on *nix > > > > > > Swing is based on the AWT foundation, so it will definitely be slower in > > a lot of cases, but it gives a few important things that the AWT did not > > have. Since it is not tied directly to operating system Peer objects, > > the Swing UI will look the same on every platform. There are a lot more > > "complex" UI types made for you in Swing, such as tables, tabbed panels, > > image buttons, and many more. 3rd but not last, Swing was designed > > specifically to be used withing an MVC paradigm, which is the defacto > > standard methodology for putting together UIs. > > > > I have never "loaded motif" on any of my linux systems, and I have never > > had problems like you say you had. There are remnants of motif in X, > > and perhaps loading non-standard Motif / X packages could cause issues, > > but this has never happened to me, nor have I heard of it happening with > > a default Red Hat installation. > > > > Depending on what you want the UI to do, Swing may or may not be fast > > enough, and you also need to determine the speed / type of system the > > software is being designed for. We of course want the software to work > > perfectly on a 486, but I don't think any software that came out in the > > last 2 years does. > > > > Swing is definitely eye candy, and if you don't want eye candy than > > don't build a GUI, build a text based interface. > > > > The Swing implementation on any platform is more "robust" than the AWT > > implementation on that same platform, and Swing should be equally robust > > across all platforms, and that is supposed to be the holy grail of java > > after all. > > > > --bjgm > > > > On Thu, 2001-12-13 at 11:52, Williams, David wrote: > > > OK... earlier in our discussions we had some talk of Swing vs AWT, etc.. > > > > > > I have some questions that I'd like to discuss in more detail. > > > > > > >From my 'failures' running Java 1.3.1_01 (and for that matter, its recommended Merlin 1.4beta replacement) on RedHat 7.0 did tell me one thing.... > > > > > > AWT in Linux Java uses Motif. I am absolutely 100% sure of that. It sucks. > > > > > > Swing... what does it use? I would consider moving the application to Swing, as some of my most recent changes no longer run correctly under the last MVM release (their implementation of Java, jview..)... > > > {{{ I don't, however, wish to debate that. I kept compliance w/ jview because a couple of my beta-testers (now they've become more intelligent) were REALLY poor at understanding these things, and they had Jview, and they DL'd the patch from microsoft...and I could test the program w/o impacting their daily software requirements greatly..... Now I feel that complying with anything Microsoft is not even a priority. It is something I will 'consider' later...but it is not a project requirement... > > > }}} > > > > > > > > > Does Swing use Qt? Does it use Tk? > > > > > > > > > Now we come to some other issues. At some point, I might wish to render animation via tightly constructed messaging... Swing is more suited to this, no? ((I am not talking real-time animation...)).. I might wish to consider other things... > > > > > > There are other reasons why I avoided Swing for so long... I constantly read and participate in the Java forums..although after a year of answering "Class not found" questions and having a couple of 'experts' shoot down my non-mainstream solutions as stupid, I felt that my time was better spent coding... > > > > > > In my time, though, on the Java forums...I did realize that most people had some type of dislike of Swing, felt that its performance was slow, and that it was eye-candy...that it bulked applications up.... I have to say... these were my first formative opinions of Swing, and its a hard taste to get out of your mouth once its there... So I am of two minds on the whole thing... > > > > > > One, I like the idea of more flexibility, snappier looking GUIs, and all that... as long as performace won't take a hit. > > > > > > However, I still wonder... is the Swing implementation UNDER *nix more robust than the AWT implementation under *nix? > > > > > > Anyway... > > > > > > ~Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Scott Williams > > > Computer Associates > > > Marketing Representative-Sales Call Center > > > One Computer Associates Plaza > > > Islandia, New York 11749 > > > tel: +1 800-243-9462 ext. 73431 > > > tel: +1 631-342-3431 (Direct) > > > fax: +1 631-342-5734 > > > wi...@ca... > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cxtable-devel mailing list > > > Cxt...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cxtable-devel > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cxtable-devel mailing list > > Cxt...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cxtable-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Cxtable-devel mailing list > Cxt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cxtable-devel > |
