Thread: [Ctags-devel] Future of ctags
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From: Frank F. <ff...@us...> - 2014-11-10 20:01:21
|
Dear Darren, We know you are going through a tough time in your life and we fully understand that ctags is not the top priority on your list. Nevertheless we hope you have the time to discuss the future of this project with us. At this moment not much is happening in the official exuberant ctags project. Very few SVN check-ins, little traffic on the mailing list. The project appears to have stalled. But all the GNU/Linux distributions mention this project as upstream. Exuberant ctags is still a strong name! A couple of developers, most of them subscribed to this list, want to keep the development of ctags alive. Since we don't have access to the SVN we decided to contribute to the most active repository on github https://github.com/fishman/ctags This started as a simple personal fork of the SVN repo (including all the history) but has grown heavily over the last couple of months. We believe a lot of good things are being done in this repository and think all the work done justifies a the release of ctags v6.0. Obviously the repo is kept up-to-date with the current SVN. No work is lost. As a next step we would like to create a github organization and convert the personal repository into the new official upstream repository. We gladly add you as admin of that organization. This way everything that has been going on in this repo is saved. After that the final work can be done to prepare the release. I am writing on behalf of the developers at "fishman". We really hope you have time to discuss this with us. Please know that all we want is to keep *this* project alive, but to accomplish that we need your help! To see the most important changes we created a changelog: https://github.com/fishman/ctags/blob/master/docs/f-news.rst We also kept track of the issues mentioned here and in other places that we addressed: https://github.com/fishman/ctags/blob/master/docs/f-tracking.rst Kind regards, Frank Fesevur PS. This mail has been sent to the ctags-devel mailing list and BCC'ed to Darren's personal address mentioned on his website. Sorry Darren, that you receive it twice. |
From: Darren H. <dhi...@us...> - 2014-11-19 06:42:21
|
Hello Frank, I am here and ready to talk about making this happen. I need a few days to come up to date on the links you posted, and get myself back in shape for building a release. How do you propose merging? Merging the changes in the github back into the Subversion repository on SourceForge? Darren > On Nov 10, 2014, at 1:44 PM, Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...> wrote: > > Dear Darren, > > We know you are going through a tough time in your life and we fully > understand that ctags is not the top priority on your list. > Nevertheless we hope you have the time to discuss the future of this > project with us. > > At this moment not much is happening in the official exuberant ctags > project. Very few SVN check-ins, little traffic on the mailing list. > The project appears to have stalled. But all the GNU/Linux > distributions mention this project as upstream. Exuberant ctags is > still a strong name! > > A couple of developers, most of them subscribed to this list, want to > keep the development of ctags alive. Since we don't have access to the > SVN we decided to contribute to the most active repository on github > https://github.com/fishman/ctags This started as a simple personal > fork of the SVN repo (including all the history) but has grown heavily > over the last couple of months. We believe a lot of good things are > being done in this repository and think all the work done justifies a > the release of ctags v6.0. Obviously the repo is kept up-to-date with > the current SVN. No work is lost. > > As a next step we would like to create a github organization and > convert the personal repository into the new official upstream > repository. We gladly add you as admin of that organization. This way > everything that has been going on in this repo is saved. After that > the final work can be done to prepare the release. > > I am writing on behalf of the developers at "fishman". We really hope > you have time to discuss this with us. Please know that all we want is > to keep *this* project alive, but to accomplish that we need your > help! > > To see the most important changes we created a changelog: > https://github.com/fishman/ctags/blob/master/docs/f-news.rst > We also kept track of the issues mentioned here and in other places > that we addressed: > https://github.com/fishman/ctags/blob/master/docs/f-tracking.rst > > Kind regards, > Frank Fesevur |
From: Frank F. <ff...@us...> - 2014-11-19 16:25:06
|
2014-11-19 7:15 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: > Hello Frank, > > I am here and ready to talk about making this happen. I need a few days to come up to date on the links you posted, and get myself back in shape for building a release. How do you propose merging? Merging the changes in the github back into the Subversion repository on SourceForge? > > Darren Great to hear from you! The easiest way is to build it is to clone the github repo (git clone https://github.com/fishman/ctags.git) and do the normal building steps. All the code in the SVN is already in the github repo. We think the best way is to start/continue using git and store the repository at github. At the moment the repo is a personal repository of Reza Jelveh aka "fishman". We want to convert that repository into an organization. One of the advantages of organizations on github is that is gives you more control over permissions and it is not tied to one person anymore. And by converting the repo all the history already build is preserved. Once it is converted, we use that git repository as the new upstream repository. I already created an organization named "exuberant-ctags" https://github.com/exuberant-ctags At this moment it is still empty, but I will set it up any time soon. That means adding the collaborators of the current repo as owner or developer and then move the repository. I want to add you as an owner as well, but I need to know your github account name for that. Of course, the original members of the sf-team can be added as well if they are still interested in ctags. After that I think we can prepare a release. Some cleanup (both code and docs) has to done, but it is pretty stable code. Regards, Frank |
From: Frank F. <ff...@us...> - 2014-12-12 08:42:15
|
Hi Darren, How are things going? Are you running into problems? If so, is there anything I can do to help you? Regards, Frank 2014-11-19 17:24 GMT+01:00 Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...>: > 2014-11-19 7:15 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: >> Hello Frank, >> >> I am here and ready to talk about making this happen. I need a few days to come up to date on the links you posted, and get myself back in shape for building a release. How do you propose merging? Merging the changes in the github back into the Subversion repository on SourceForge? >> >> Darren > > Great to hear from you! > > The easiest way is to build it is to clone the github repo (git clone > https://github.com/fishman/ctags.git) and do the normal building > steps. > > All the code in the SVN is already in the github repo. We think the > best way is to start/continue using git and store the repository at > github. > > At the moment the repo is a personal repository of Reza Jelveh aka > "fishman". We want to convert that repository into an organization. > One of the advantages of organizations on github is that is gives you > more control over permissions and it is not tied to one person > anymore. And by converting the repo all the history already build is > preserved. Once it is converted, we use that git repository as the new > upstream repository. > > I already created an organization named "exuberant-ctags" > https://github.com/exuberant-ctags > > At this moment it is still empty, but I will set it up any time soon. > That means adding the collaborators of the current repo as owner or > developer and then move the repository. I want to add you as an owner > as well, but I need to know your github account name for that. Of > course, the original members of the sf-team can be added as well if > they are still interested in ctags. > > After that I think we can prepare a release. Some cleanup (both code > and docs) has to done, but it is pretty stable code. > > Regards, > Frank |
From: Frank F. <ff...@us...> - 2015-01-28 16:26:59
|
Hi Darren, Is there anything we can do to help you? Any questions we can answer? Problems we can solve? If you are still in doubt about git and GitHub, please read these blogposts by the .NET team of Microsoft. MS has integrated git in Visual Studio quite nicely IMHO (Yes, the idea of Linus Torvalds - maybe even code he has written - is used a MS product), they are active contributing to the development of libgit2 and MS is moving at least some of their open source project from their own CodePlex platform to GitHub, simply because that is where the community is. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2014/11/12/net-core-is-open-source.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vbteam/archive/2015/01/10/we-re-moving-to-github.aspx And see how your project has been revived at GitHub. An active community has grown there. This week an quite detailed issue and a pull request were submitted by two new people. People are finding ctags at github and willing to contribute. And we really want to move forward, together with you! We'll continue to use Sourceforge for the webhosting, the mailing list and probably as the download platform, but move the main code repo and issue tracker to the GitHub organization. Then fix some last known bugs, update the documentation including the man page and prepare for the release of exuberant ctags 6.0 Kind regards, Frank 2014-12-19 6:23 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <Da...@da...>: > Frank, > > If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that the source code no longer be hosted at SourceForge, which is what I would prefer. What are the reasons that you believe that SourceForge cannot provide the support necessary? > > Darren > >> On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:41 AM, Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...> wrote: >> >> Hi Darren, >> >> How are things going? Are you running into problems? If so, is there >> anything I can do to help you? >> >> Regards, >> Frank >> >> >> 2014-11-19 17:24 GMT+01:00 Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...>: >>> 2014-11-19 7:15 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: >>>> Hello Frank, >>>> >>>> I am here and ready to talk about making this happen. I need a few days to come up to date on the links you posted, and get myself back in shape for building a release. How do you propose merging? Merging the changes in the github back into the Subversion repository on SourceForge? >>>> >>>> Darren >>> >>> Great to hear from you! >>> >>> The easiest way is to build it is to clone the github repo (git clone >>> https://github.com/fishman/ctags.git) and do the normal building >>> steps. >>> >>> All the code in the SVN is already in the github repo. We think the >>> best way is to start/continue using git and store the repository at >>> github. >>> >>> At the moment the repo is a personal repository of Reza Jelveh aka >>> "fishman". We want to convert that repository into an organization. >>> One of the advantages of organizations on github is that is gives you >>> more control over permissions and it is not tied to one person >>> anymore. And by converting the repo all the history already build is >>> preserved. Once it is converted, we use that git repository as the new >>> upstream repository. >>> >>> I already created an organization named "exuberant-ctags" >>> https://github.com/exuberant-ctags >>> >>> At this moment it is still empty, but I will set it up any time soon. >>> That means adding the collaborators of the current repo as owner or >>> developer and then move the repository. I want to add you as an owner >>> as well, but I need to know your github account name for that. Of >>> course, the original members of the sf-team can be added as well if >>> they are still interested in ctags. >>> >>> After that I think we can prepare a release. Some cleanup (both code >>> and docs) has to done, but it is pretty stable code. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Frank >> >> Ctags-devel mailing list >> Cta...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ctags-devel >> > |
From: Darren H. <dhi...@us...> - 2014-12-19 05:55:37
|
Frank, If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that the source code no longer be hosted at SourceForge, which is what I would prefer. What are the reasons that you believe that SourceForge cannot provide the support necessary? Darren > On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:41 AM, Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...> wrote: > > Hi Darren, > > How are things going? Are you running into problems? If so, is there > anything I can do to help you? > > Regards, > Frank > > > 2014-11-19 17:24 GMT+01:00 Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...>: >> 2014-11-19 7:15 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: >>> Hello Frank, >>> >>> I am here and ready to talk about making this happen. I need a few days to come up to date on the links you posted, and get myself back in shape for building a release. How do you propose merging? Merging the changes in the github back into the Subversion repository on SourceForge? >>> >>> Darren >> >> Great to hear from you! >> >> The easiest way is to build it is to clone the github repo (git clone >> https://github.com/fishman/ctags.git) and do the normal building >> steps. >> >> All the code in the SVN is already in the github repo. We think the >> best way is to start/continue using git and store the repository at >> github. >> >> At the moment the repo is a personal repository of Reza Jelveh aka >> "fishman". We want to convert that repository into an organization. >> One of the advantages of organizations on github is that is gives you >> more control over permissions and it is not tied to one person >> anymore. And by converting the repo all the history already build is >> preserved. Once it is converted, we use that git repository as the new >> upstream repository. >> >> I already created an organization named "exuberant-ctags" >> https://github.com/exuberant-ctags >> >> At this moment it is still empty, but I will set it up any time soon. >> That means adding the collaborators of the current repo as owner or >> developer and then move the repository. I want to add you as an owner >> as well, but I need to know your github account name for that. Of >> course, the original members of the sf-team can be added as well if >> they are still interested in ctags. >> >> After that I think we can prepare a release. Some cleanup (both code >> and docs) has to done, but it is pretty stable code. >> >> Regards, >> Frank > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more > Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Ctags-devel mailing list > Cta...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ctags-devel > |
From: Colomban W. <lis...@he...> - 2014-12-19 13:34:58
|
Hi, Le 19/12/2014 06:55, Darren Hiebert a écrit : > If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that the source code > no longer be hosted at SourceForge, which is what I would prefer. If we switch to Git (and I love Git!), we can have the code hosted on several places very easily (with any DVCS actually). We can push it both to SF and GitHub and whatnot. With hooks it's even very easy to maintain copies in sync. My point is only that using a DVCS means we don't have to remove the code from anywhere. > What are the reasons that you believe that SourceForge cannot provide > the support necessary? Unfortunately, AFAIK SF doesn't provide something similar to Pull Requests (also called Merge Requests on some other platforms), which are a really handy way of submitting and reviewing changes. GitHub's UI there is very nice I must admit. Also, I know many people facing recurrent login issues with SF, like getting disconnected very often, sometimes in the middle of an action making them lose the content of a form and these kind of things. And SF has other weird issues, but that's (partly) another topic. Anyway, as much as I hate switching from a more-or-less open platform to a closed one, GitHub seems a lot more practical to use today, at least for the code part (I can't really tell for the bug tracker part, but GH has one that while having seemingly less features seem to work just fine in practice). However note that there are open alternatives to GitHub if that's one thing that annoys you, one just has to search a bit -- and often, host it, which is both great and not so much. Regards, Colomban PS: oops, I missed the list last time and only answered Darren. |
From: Dmitri T. <dti...@ya...> - 2014-12-20 01:15:11
|
Sourceforge can provide the support, but Github is the new hot thing. Consider Exuberant Ctags itself. There are over *fifty* forks of Exuberant Ctags on Github: https://github.com/search?q=exuberant+ctags&type=Repositories&ref=searchresults and only one on Sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/directory/?q=exuberant%20ctags Most of those forks on Github have modifications to one parser or another and most could probably be easily merged into the official tree if it were hosted on Github. Then there is also Travis-CI, which is a testing service that can be integrated with GIthub. I am not sure whether something like this exists on Sourceforge. But most importantly, I feel that there is just more awareness about Github and most programmers now choose to host their projects there. (I say "feel" because I don't have number to back it up. My own anecdotal evidence: I am much more likely to come across Github links in my daily web browsing than Sourceforge links.) Those are my arguments in favor of Github. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 12/19/14, Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Ctags-devel] Future of ctags To: "Frank Fesevur" <ff...@us...> Cc: "ctags-devel Development" <cta...@li...> Date: Friday, December 19, 2014, 12:55 AM Frank, If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that the source code no longer be hosted at SourceForge, which is what I would prefer. What are the reasons that you believe that SourceForge cannot provide the support necessary? Darren > On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:41 AM, Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...> wrote: > > Hi Darren, > > How are things going? Are you running into problems? If so, is there > anything I can do to help you? > > Regards, > Frank > > > 2014-11-19 17:24 GMT+01:00 Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...>: >> 2014-11-19 7:15 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: >>> Hello Frank, >>> >>> I am here and ready to talk about making this happen. I need a few days to come up to date on the links you posted, and get myself back in shape for building a release. How do you propose merging? Merging the changes in the github back into the Subversion repository on SourceForge? >>> >>> Darren >> >> Great to hear from you! >> >> The easiest way is to build it is to clone the github repo (git clone >> https://github.com/fishman/ctags.git) and do the normal building >> steps. >> >> All the code in the SVN is already in the github repo. We think the >> best way is to start/continue using git and store the repository at >> github. >> >> At the moment the repo is a personal repository of Reza Jelveh aka >> "fishman". We want to convert that repository into an organization. >> One of the advantages of organizations on github is that is gives you >> more control over permissions and it is not tied to one person >> anymore. And by converting the repo all the history already build is >> preserved. Once it is converted, we use that git repository as the new >> upstream repository. >> >> I already created an organization named "exuberant-ctags" >> https://github.com/exuberant-ctags >> >> At this moment it is still empty, but I will set it up any time soon. >> That means adding the collaborators of the current repo as owner or >> developer and then move the repository. I want to add you as an owner >> as well, but I need to know your github account name for that. Of >> course, the original members of the sf-team can be added as well if >> they are still interested in ctags. >> >> After that I think we can prepare a release. Some cleanup (both code >> and docs) has to done, but it is pretty stable code. >> >> Regards, >> Frank > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more > Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Ctags-devel mailing list > Cta...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ctags-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ Ctags-devel mailing list Cta...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ctags-devel |
From: Jan L. <li...@ma...> - 2014-12-21 09:39:56
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Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: > If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that the source code no > longer be hosted at SourceForge, which is what I would prefer. What are the > reasons that you believe that SourceForge cannot provide the support > necessary? I also want to chime in with a preference for GitHub. GitHub is essentially were most of the developers are nowadays, and with good reason. I have used SourceForge for years before GitHub was around, but now that GitHub has shown how convenient project hosting can be it is hard to go back to SourceForge, and every time I have to do it I find the SF interface very cumbersome. Especially contributing a quick patch is dead easy with GitHub, you just clone the repository, commit your patch, and send a pull request. There are even tools to do this with a few commands on the command line. And this is even without all the benefits that Git itself brings for developers. I myself would not want to miss them, I even use subversion repositories (almost) exclusively through git-svn instead of the normal svn client. But if someone does want to stick with the svn client for some reason it is possible to access GitHub repositories as subversion repositories. I don't think that is possible on SourceForge. So the short version is that a project hosted on GitHub will not only be more convenient for the core developers, but will almost certainly also attract a lot more outside contributions. -Jan -- -[ OpenPGP key ID: 00A0FD5F ]- But I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose — which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell. Possibly. It doesn't frighten me. -- Richard Feynman |
From: Frank F. <ff...@us...> - 2014-12-21 23:06:23
|
Hi Darren, I don't have much to add to other posts (all of them have contributed to the github repo). The two most important features for me are github's Pull Requests (PR) and the Travis CI integration. With the way gibhub allows you to fork/copy a repo, do your changes and submit a PR, it is very easy for everybody to submit their improvements to the upstream project. Most of the code that is contributed the last months has been PRs. The Travis CI integration is also very useful. This means that the code gets compiled every time something is pushed to the repo. This way we make sure the code compiles in Linux and Windows. And with the new introduced units tests, Travis CI checks if the new code does not break old code. Because this also works for submitted PRs those basic checks are done before new code is reviewed. Regards, Frank 2014-12-19 6:55 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: > Frank, > > If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that the source code no longer be hosted at SourceForge, which is what I would prefer. What are the reasons that you believe that SourceForge cannot provide the support necessary? > > Darren > >> On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:41 AM, Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...> wrote: >> >> Hi Darren, >> >> How are things going? Are you running into problems? If so, is there >> anything I can do to help you? >> >> Regards, >> Frank >> >> >> 2014-11-19 17:24 GMT+01:00 Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...>: >>> 2014-11-19 7:15 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: >>>> Hello Frank, >>>> >>>> I am here and ready to talk about making this happen. I need a few days to come up to date on the links you posted, and get myself back in shape for building a release. How do you propose merging? Merging the changes in the github back into the Subversion repository on SourceForge? >>>> >>>> Darren >>> >>> Great to hear from you! >>> >>> The easiest way is to build it is to clone the github repo (git clone >>> https://github.com/fishman/ctags.git) and do the normal building >>> steps. >>> >>> All the code in the SVN is already in the github repo. We think the >>> best way is to start/continue using git and store the repository at >>> github. >>> >>> At the moment the repo is a personal repository of Reza Jelveh aka >>> "fishman". We want to convert that repository into an organization. >>> One of the advantages of organizations on github is that is gives you >>> more control over permissions and it is not tied to one person >>> anymore. And by converting the repo all the history already build is >>> preserved. Once it is converted, we use that git repository as the new >>> upstream repository. >>> >>> I already created an organization named "exuberant-ctags" >>> https://github.com/exuberant-ctags >>> >>> At this moment it is still empty, but I will set it up any time soon. >>> That means adding the collaborators of the current repo as owner or >>> developer and then move the repository. I want to add you as an owner >>> as well, but I need to know your github account name for that. Of >>> course, the original members of the sf-team can be added as well if >>> they are still interested in ctags. >>> >>> After that I think we can prepare a release. Some cleanup (both code >>> and docs) has to done, but it is pretty stable code. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Frank >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server >> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards >> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more >> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> Ctags-devel mailing list >> Cta...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ctags-devel >> > |
From: Darren H. <dhi...@us...> - 2015-02-03 05:57:54
|
Hello Frank, I haven't forgotten you. My main apprehensions have been migrating to Git, and hosting off of SourceForge. We began using git on a project at work and it has been a ride. While I knew how to use Subversion thoroughly, I do not have such a comfort level with git and don't know how to undo problems that occur. We have had changes wiped out at work that had to be restored when folks would push from their local repository that didn't get fully merged with changes from others. This necessitated the only two guys who know how to get us out of the mess in order to restore the files that got overwritten with older files. Considering how often this has happened, I have some trepidation. Secondly, I prefer that ctags be hosted on SourceForge. I am uncertain how we can use git to do that, but still host on SourceForge. Can you please explain further to me how that can be done? Darren > On Jan 28, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...> wrote: > > Hi Darren, > > Is there anything we can do to help you? Any questions we can answer? > Problems we can solve? > > If you are still in doubt about git and GitHub, please read these > blogposts by the .NET team of Microsoft. MS has integrated git in > Visual Studio quite nicely IMHO (Yes, the idea of Linus Torvalds - > maybe even code he has written - is used a MS product), they are > active contributing to the development of libgit2 and MS is moving at > least some of their open source project from their own CodePlex > platform to GitHub, simply because that is where the community is. > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2014/11/12/net-core-is-open-source.aspx > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vbteam/archive/2015/01/10/we-re-moving-to-github.aspx > > And see how your project has been revived at GitHub. An active > community has grown there. This week an quite detailed issue and a > pull request were submitted by two new people. People are finding > ctags at github and willing to contribute. > > And we really want to move forward, together with you! We'll continue > to use Sourceforge for the webhosting, the mailing list and probably > as the download platform, but move the main code repo and issue > tracker to the GitHub organization. Then fix some last known bugs, > update the documentation including the man page and prepare for the > release of exuberant ctags 6.0 > > Kind regards, > Frank > > > 2014-12-19 6:23 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <Da...@da...>: >> Frank, >> >> If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that the source code no longer be hosted at SourceForge, which is what I would prefer. What are the reasons that you believe that SourceForge cannot provide the support necessary? >> >> Darren >> >>> On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:41 AM, Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Darren, >>> >>> How are things going? Are you running into problems? If so, is there >>> anything I can do to help you? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Frank >>> >>> >>> 2014-11-19 17:24 GMT+01:00 Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...>: >>>> 2014-11-19 7:15 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: >>>>> Hello Frank, >>>>> >>>>> I am here and ready to talk about making this happen. I need a few days to come up to date on the links you posted, and get myself back in shape for building a release. How do you propose merging? Merging the changes in the github back into the Subversion repository on SourceForge? >>>>> >>>>> Darren >>>> >>>> Great to hear from you! >>>> >>>> The easiest way is to build it is to clone the github repo (git clone >>>> https://github.com/fishman/ctags.git) and do the normal building >>>> steps. >>>> >>>> All the code in the SVN is already in the github repo. We think the >>>> best way is to start/continue using git and store the repository at >>>> github. >>>> >>>> At the moment the repo is a personal repository of Reza Jelveh aka >>>> "fishman". We want to convert that repository into an organization. >>>> One of the advantages of organizations on github is that is gives you >>>> more control over permissions and it is not tied to one person >>>> anymore. And by converting the repo all the history already build is >>>> preserved. Once it is converted, we use that git repository as the new >>>> upstream repository. >>>> >>>> I already created an organization named "exuberant-ctags" >>>> https://github.com/exuberant-ctags >>>> >>>> At this moment it is still empty, but I will set it up any time soon. >>>> That means adding the collaborators of the current repo as owner or >>>> developer and then move the repository. I want to add you as an owner >>>> as well, but I need to know your github account name for that. Of >>>> course, the original members of the sf-team can be added as well if >>>> they are still interested in ctags. >>>> >>>> After that I think we can prepare a release. Some cleanup (both code >>>> and docs) has to done, but it is pretty stable code. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Frank >>> >>> Ctags-devel mailing list >>> Cta...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ctags-devel >>> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, > sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your > hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought > leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a > look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ > _______________________________________________ > Ctags-devel mailing list > Cta...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ctags-devel > |
From: Martin d'A. <mar...@gm...> - 2015-02-03 11:07:59
|
Hello Daren, Please, let me weight in wrt to Git. I am a ctags user and usually a silent observer on this list. I used to have similar apprehensions, Git is a very complicated SCM. Recently I got involved in a couple of projects hosted on GitHub, and discovered the GitHub workflow with forked repositories and pull requests. This workflow puts "checks" around Git that prevent people from propagating unwanted changes beyond their own repository: the pull requests must be reviewed and approved by a real person before they are approved for merge into the "central" repository. Maybe pull requests can be configured to be automatically accepted but I would not turn that on unless there was an extensive automated test suite. The projects I participate in on GitHub have both human code reviews and automated testing. Project maintainers will not review nor accept the pull requests unless the tests have passed. For example: https://github.com/jenkinsci/validating-string-parameter-plugin/pull/3 So I encourage you to try the GitHub workflow of forked repositories and pull requests. To me this is the game changer that finally makes Git usable. This workflow does not prevent anyone from deeply messing up their local repository and their fork, but it certainly prevents them from propagating their mistakes to others, and I can deal with that. Cheers, Martin On 15-02-03 12:31 AM, Darren Hiebert wrote: > Hello Frank, > > I haven't forgotten you. My main apprehensions have been migrating to Git, and hosting off of SourceForge. > > We began using git on a project at work and it has been a ride. While I knew how to use Subversion thoroughly, I do not have such a comfort level with git and don't know how to undo problems that occur. We have had changes wiped out at work that had to be restored when folks would push from their local repository that didn't get fully merged with changes from others. This necessitated the only two guys who know how to get us out of the mess in order to restore the files that got overwritten with older files. Considering how often this has happened, I have some trepidation. > > Secondly, I prefer that ctags be hosted on SourceForge. I am uncertain how we can use git to do that, but still host on SourceForge. Can you please explain further to me how that can be done? > > Darren > |
From: Colomban W. <lis...@he...> - 2015-02-03 14:54:07
|
Hi, Le 03/02/2015 06:31, Darren Hiebert a écrit : > I haven't forgotten you. My main apprehensions have been migrating to > Git, and hosting off of SourceForge. > > We began using git on a project at work and it has been a ride. While > I knew how to use Subversion thoroughly, I do not have such a comfort > level with git and don't know how to undo problems that occur. We > have had changes wiped out at work that had to be restored when folks > would push from their local repository that didn't get fully merged > with changes from others. This necessitated the only two guys who > know how to get us out of the mess in order to restore the files that > got overwritten with older files. Considering how often this has > happened, I have some trepidation. Admittedly Git allows the user to do a lot more, and this includes breaking everything. However I believe that with a small learning time you can get comfortable with Git if you don't try and do complex things without taking time to properly understand them. Sure, Git allows you to rewrite history, force push and the like, but that's not commonly required. I guess what you saw was people trying to force a push because some other changes happened and they didn't know what to do -- though, at least recent Git versions will tell you you probably should pull and then try again -- as with SVN you couldn't even commit if your clone was outdated. Anyway, I believe that if you restrict yourself to the basics required, like commit, checkout, add, push, pull, merge, branch and the like, without trying weird stuff everything should be OK. Also, Git has lightweight branches [1], and you're advised to make extensive use of them. Basically, instead of working on master (Git's "trunk") you'd work on a branch and merge [2] it when you're done, or make a pull request out of it. I can understand that one has to get used to the decentralized model when coming from a long centralized experience, and that Git may let the user do a little too much too easily -- but I believe there is much to gain. My first VCS experience was SVN (though I admit I didn't know much about it), and it was just fine, but I wouldn't trade Git for it for the world anymore :) One thing for example I find very useful with Git and missing with SVN is the ability for anyone to work on the repository. With SVN, if you don't have commit access you cannot prepare commits, and you pretty much can only provide one single patch for inclusion with svn diff. With Git, you can commit on a local branch as much as you like, and easily export several commits, allowing to break things into relevant units rather than one large thing. Or you can publish your repository and ask for commits to be pulled from it -- that's what PR are basically, just with a nicer interface. For me as a developer it makes things a lot easier, because I can work on whatever I have to (even several branches at once if I need to) and take the time and steps I need to prepare clean commits [3]. [1] lightweight branches may be a concept that might be a bit weird to SVN users, like SVN branches are a bit weird to me :) But basically a Git branch is local unless explicitly pushed on a remote, and "replaces" the current file tree. There is no /branches/trunk/ or /branches/otherbranch/, you just switch between states of the one and only file tree. Git branches are references to the last commit on them, and checking a branch out gives you the state of that last commit. [2] you may not want to know, but if you want, Git also allows you to avoid a merge by "importing" the commits instead of creating a merge, that's the call of the person trying to "merge" the branch. [3] and with Git's advanced features, I can even fix my commits (if they haven't been pushed) if I realize there's something wrong in them. OK, admittedly that's the kind of power-feature that Git users grew to love but that can easily scare people off and lead to some breakage if misused :) > Secondly, I prefer that ctags be hosted on SourceForge. I am > uncertain how we can use git to do that, but still host on > SourceForge. Can you please explain further to me how that can be > done? SourceForge supports Git repositories just like they support SVN ones. However, AFAIK they don't provide the whole pull request and review interface people like on GitHub and similar platforms. However, if your concern is that you want to also have the code on SourceForge, it's not a problem: with Git (and any decentralized VCS actually) you can have as many public repositories you want, and they all are as much complete as the next one (so are local ones). So, we could very well push all changes to SourceForge in addition to any other platform (like GitHub for example) we want. We could even probably have a "hook" [4] that would automatically propagate the changes to whichever mirror we want. For example with Geany, we have a hook set up so that any change pushed to our GitHub repository is propagated to our own server mirror http://git.geany.org/geany/ [4] automated action triggered by some event, typically push or commit. I'm not sure GitHub has a builtin one for propagating to sourceforge, but without having tested it it should be possible to get something to work. I hope this helps a bit and didn't scare you further off :) Regards, Colomban |
From: Jan L. <li...@ma...> - 2015-02-05 05:14:50
|
Hi Darren, Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: > We began using git on a project at work and it has been a ride. While I knew > how to use Subversion thoroughly, I do not have such a comfort level with > git and don't know how to undo problems that occur. We have had changes > wiped out at work that had to be restored when folks would push from their > local repository that didn't get fully merged with changes from others. This > necessitated the only two guys who know how to get us out of the mess in > order to restore the files that got overwritten with older files. > Considering how often this has happened, I have some trepidation. First off, as I mentioned in an earlier mail GitHub actually allows accessing repositories with Subversion as well: https://help.github.com/articles/support-for-subversion-clients/ https://github.com/blog/1178-collaborating-on-github-with-subversion This would not be possible with a Git repository hosted on SourceForge. I would also like to weigh in with support for Git in general. I have been using Git since about 2007, and CVS and Subversion before that, and I find Git to be a vast improvement in every way. It is certainly more in the "with great power comes great responsibility" camp than Subversion, and I obviously don't know what happened at your company, but in my experience it is actually quite hard to really mess up a Git repository unless you're liberally using advanced commands without really understanding them, and ignoring warnings. The important thing to remember is that Git is very different from Subversion in many ways, but once you understand the basic concepts of Git everything else really follows naturally from there. Here are two documents about how Git works that I really recommend reading: https://github.com/pluralsight/git-internals-pdf/releases https://jwiegley.github.io/git-from-the-bottom-up/ > Secondly, I prefer that ctags be hosted on SourceForge. I am uncertain how > we can use git to do that, but still host on SourceForge. Can you please > explain further to me how that can be done? I really would recommend not staying on SourceForge. SourceForge was useful 10 years ago, but by now its features and usability are so far behind the alternatives that it is rapidly becoming irrelevant. I can guarantee you that this project would receive a *lot* more contributions on GitHub than on SourceForge, because people don't want to have to put up with an interface from over a decade ago. The GitHub repository that this thread is about has already had more contributions in the last few months than the official ctags one had in several years. You are probably aware that there are several ctags forks on GitHub where people have added support for one or two languages, but none of them have made it into the official repository yet. If the official repository were on GitHub the authors of those forks could have very easily sent a pull request with their changes, but since this is not possible with SourceForge contributing is too much hassle for most people. -Jan -- -[ OpenPGP key ID: 00A0FD5F ]- The most dangerous phrase in the language is, "We've always done it this way." -- Grace Hopper |
From: Frank F. <ff...@us...> - 2015-02-25 20:25:49
|
Hi Darren, Let me try to answer your two questions: Why move from SVN to git? And why move from SF to GitHub? To try to answer the second one first. I think others (basically everybody how responded) have given extended and valid arguments why we think github is better platform at this moment than SF. The summary for me is: - A large and active(!) community is at GitHub nowadays. More new people have send useful PRs to our repo (and we've merged them) in the last couple of weeks then there were patches submitted to SF in the last years. - GitHub's Pull Requests (PRs) makes it easy for anyone to submit a patch and for maintainers to discus it and merge it in the repo. - Travis CI integration. This automatically compiles the code and runs the units tests after every commit. The first two really make a huge difference. We are convinced that on SF we never would have had anything close to this number of contributers and contributions. Also see the links in my previous mail why Microsoft open sourced their .NET code on GitHub and not on their own codeplex. As I wrote before we would continue to use SF to webhosting, downloads of releases and the mailing list (although GitHub could fill our needs on the first two if needed/wanted). Now about the first problem, SVN or git. There are many many sites that describe much better then I can ever do why you would choose git over SVN. But if you don't want to use git, GitHub has SVN support. I have checkout the repo through SVN (svn co https://github.com/fishman/ctags) and kept it up to date (svn update) for a over a week now. It just works. I assume committing is no problem either. You don't need to say goodbye to SVN if you don't feel comfortable with git yet. Have you already looked at the current repo at GitHub? Have you seen how much work has been done? The repo has 2328 commits at the moment of writing (based upon the SVN revision number), while the SVN at SF is at revision 816. A large portion of that is from the last 12 months, over 55 commits this February. All the changes made in the SVN at SF have been integrated in our repo, so no work is lost. Various patches that were submitted to SF have been included in the repo as well. See https://github.com/fishman/ctags/blob/master/docs/tracking.rst 13 new parsers have been added and many improvements to existing parsers have been made. A new units testing system has been introduced and as well as other sophisticated new features. Too much to mention here. See https://github.com/fishman/ctags/blob/master/docs/news.rst for more information. With all the work done, we feel it is time to start to work towards the release of ctags v6.0 Know that when we move the personal repo we are using right now to an organization, all the issues and PR linked to the repo are moved as well, so no history is lost. We would obviously make you co-owner of that organization. Regards, Frank 2015-02-03 6:31 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: > Hello Frank, > > I haven't forgotten you. My main apprehensions have been migrating to Git, and hosting off of SourceForge. > > We began using git on a project at work and it has been a ride. While I knew how to use Subversion thoroughly, I do not have such a comfort level with git and don't know how to undo problems that occur. We have had changes wiped out at work that had to be restored when folks would push from their local repository that didn't get fully merged with changes from others. This necessitated the only two guys who know how to get us out of the mess in order to restore the files that got overwritten with older files. Considering how often this has happened, I have some trepidation. > > Secondly, I prefer that ctags be hosted on SourceForge. I am uncertain how we can use git to do that, but still host on SourceForge. Can you please explain further to me how that can be done? > > Darren > >> On Jan 28, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...> wrote: >> >> Hi Darren, >> >> Is there anything we can do to help you? Any questions we can answer? >> Problems we can solve? >> >> If you are still in doubt about git and GitHub, please read these >> blogposts by the .NET team of Microsoft. MS has integrated git in >> Visual Studio quite nicely IMHO (Yes, the idea of Linus Torvalds - >> maybe even code he has written - is used a MS product), they are >> active contributing to the development of libgit2 and MS is moving at >> least some of their open source project from their own CodePlex >> platform to GitHub, simply because that is where the community is. >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2014/11/12/net-core-is-open-source.aspx >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vbteam/archive/2015/01/10/we-re-moving-to-github.aspx >> >> And see how your project has been revived at GitHub. An active >> community has grown there. This week an quite detailed issue and a >> pull request were submitted by two new people. People are finding >> ctags at github and willing to contribute. >> >> And we really want to move forward, together with you! We'll continue >> to use Sourceforge for the webhosting, the mailing list and probably >> as the download platform, but move the main code repo and issue >> tracker to the GitHub organization. Then fix some last known bugs, >> update the documentation including the man page and prepare for the >> release of exuberant ctags 6.0 >> >> Kind regards, >> Frank >> >> >> 2014-12-19 6:23 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <Da...@da...>: >>> Frank, >>> >>> If I understand you correctly, you are proposing that the source code no longer be hosted at SourceForge, which is what I would prefer. What are the reasons that you believe that SourceForge cannot provide the support necessary? >>> >>> Darren >>> >>>> On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:41 AM, Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Darren, >>>> >>>> How are things going? Are you running into problems? If so, is there >>>> anything I can do to help you? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> >>>> 2014-11-19 17:24 GMT+01:00 Frank Fesevur <ff...@us...>: >>>>> 2014-11-19 7:15 GMT+01:00 Darren Hiebert <dhi...@us...>: >>>>>> Hello Frank, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am here and ready to talk about making this happen. I need a few days to come up to date on the links you posted, and get myself back in shape for building a release. How do you propose merging? Merging the changes in the github back into the Subversion repository on SourceForge? >>>>>> >>>>>> Darren >>>>> >>>>> Great to hear from you! >>>>> >>>>> The easiest way is to build it is to clone the github repo (git clone >>>>> https://github.com/fishman/ctags.git) and do the normal building >>>>> steps. >>>>> >>>>> All the code in the SVN is already in the github repo. We think the >>>>> best way is to start/continue using git and store the repository at >>>>> github. >>>>> >>>>> At the moment the repo is a personal repository of Reza Jelveh aka >>>>> "fishman". We want to convert that repository into an organization. >>>>> One of the advantages of organizations on github is that is gives you >>>>> more control over permissions and it is not tied to one person >>>>> anymore. And by converting the repo all the history already build is >>>>> preserved. Once it is converted, we use that git repository as the new >>>>> upstream repository. >>>>> >>>>> I already created an organization named "exuberant-ctags" >>>>> https://github.com/exuberant-ctags >>>>> >>>>> At this moment it is still empty, but I will set it up any time soon. >>>>> That means adding the collaborators of the current repo as owner or >>>>> developer and then move the repository. I want to add you as an owner >>>>> as well, but I need to know your github account name for that. Of >>>>> course, the original members of the sf-team can be added as well if >>>>> they are still interested in ctags. >>>>> >>>>> After that I think we can prepare a release. Some cleanup (both code >>>>> and docs) has to done, but it is pretty stable code. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Frank >>>> >>>> Ctags-devel mailing list >>>> Cta...@li... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ctags-devel >>>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, >> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your >> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought >> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a >> look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Ctags-devel mailing list >> Cta...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ctags-devel >> > |