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Re: [Crawl-ref-discuss] Too many inventory items these days, meld some
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From: Corin Buchanan-H. <co...@bu...> - 2017-05-31 12:37:11
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I'm not yet convinced that the potion of power idea is an improvement over separate !brilliance/agility/might. What I like about the current situation is 1) if you're in a bad situation and need a combat boost, whether to drink !might or !agility isn't always clear, and even if you plan to use both, doing so in the wrong order can be costly. Merging the potions would mean you would always get both benefits, which in turn means that benefit:cost ratio of using a turn to quaff it would be significantly higher. There's a bit of power creep here as well as a decision removed. 2) Having them separated means that players who don't use Trog should consider how to make good use of !brilliance, because (as many have pointed out) it's not as easy to make use of as the other two potions. It's been argued that the effect isn't big enough to make it worth the cost of creating situations where expensive magic is available only with the aid of !brilliance, but my experience is that there are a fair number of level 6-9 spells that are valuable even if cast only a couple dozen times over the course of the game and that using !brilliance to make them available can be a fairly decent tool across a variety of builds. It's possible that in most of these situations there's an easier way to get sufficient power to make these situations safe -- train more melee, train more defenses, train for a lower-level spell in a different school -- but after trying it several times I've found it's reasonably often a strong option. Merging the potions would essentially remove this option, as burning both !might and !agility to enable spellcasting alone would very rarely be a good choice. The arguments from simplicity (two less items to worry about and two less inventory slots) have some appeal to me, but I think the arguments from choice (one strong choice rather than three less strong choices) miss the mark because this would result in fewer meaningful decisions rather than more. Corin On 5/31/2017 3:34 AM, Johanna Ploog wrote: > > !resist is also a very inelegant (bad?) design, for similar reasons! > > I would argue that !resist is an awesome potion precisely because it's > powerful and rare, which forces you to make decisions: If you really > only need, say, FR _right now_ (but badly!), you'd "waste" all the > other resistances the potion would also grant. Thematically, combining > all resistances also works. > > I agree that including stat boosts as well might be too much. Taken to > the extreme you could merge !resist + !healing + !power into a single > "escape dire situation" one. > > However, I don't see anything wrong with merging the stat boost > potions into a single one to follow the !resist example. > > > On 31 May 2017 at 02:26, Nicholas Feinberg <ple...@gm... > <mailto:ple...@gm...>> wrote: > > !resist is also a very inelegant (bad?) design, for similar reasons! > > On 30 May 2017 at 17:24, David Ploog <dp...@ma... > <mailto:dp...@ma...>> wrote: > > On Tue, 30 May 2017, Nicholas Feinberg wrote: > > If you want to reduce inventory item types to reduce > inventory pressure, I > would strongly consider just removing types, rather than > combining them > willy-nilly. > > > I wouldn't think that combining !might, !agility, !brilliance > is willy-nilly: use of the latter is quite disjoint from the > first two. Next, these are *good* items (like many > consumables), because they create good decisions. I believe > that a combined potion would produce a very similar type of > choice, at reduced inventory cost. > > Is a potion with three different unrelated effects really > a good design, > something that would be added to the game on its own > merits? Or is it just > an appeal to crawl's history? > > > I can resort to hyperbole as well: why does !resist provide a > bunch of different effects (but not MR+)? Surely we should > have !rF+ etc. > > > David > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Crawl-ref-discuss mailing list > Cra...@li... > <mailto:Cra...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss > <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Crawl-ref-discuss mailing list > Cra...@li... > <mailto:Cra...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss > <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > Crawl-ref-discuss mailing list > Cra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss |
