I understand a POS order could automatically generate an invoice and a shipment when the order is completed. Then I am trying to document an order returned from the customer, and tried to use "Material Return" as the document type of the sales order. However, it looks like there is no way to generate an invoice from this order and I have to create lines again. I would like to make the changes to the document type of "Material Return", and anticipate it to generate an invoice automatically unpon completion. Does anybody know how to change the document type of material return in order to have it behave like a POS order? This could save me some data entry effort...Any ideas are appreciated! Q
What you are looking for is the RMA feature that is not implemented in Compiere yet for this to work automatically. Just wondering, why would you raise an invoice for the returned goods? WOuldn't you raise a credit memo?
Until RMA is available you can generate a shipment for a negative quantity. You may need to change the order qty before the negative shipment will auto generate a negative invoice.
The POS order would create a cash payment too! You would be better to create the negative order of type "Credit Order", this will create the Order, Shipment (Return) & Invoice, but no payment... unless of course you are returning cash to the customer immediately in which case your approach is correct.
Why use an invoice instead of credit memo, Mani?
It would be possible to create a new Document Type Customer Returns which is based on a POS/Credit Order but creates automatically a Credit Memo. BUT, since the initial order must be negative (to correct the stock levels) the Credit Memo would also be created using negative values. The Credit Memo document correctly posts GL in reverse to a Invoice, if this is negative it would result in postings equivalent to an invioce (if you get my meaning!).... so we are forced to use Negative Invoices.
We could use a document type that does not auto create the Invoice/Credit Memo,(such as a "Warehouse Order") with the intention of manually creating the Credit Memo after... but if you were to use the "Generate Invoices" option it could (depending on options selected) combine the documents into one .. i.e. incorrectly merge the Invoices & CMs!
What I did was create a new Customer Return document type based on the Credit Order and creating a Invoice document.. but I selected a default print format for this document that I created as a copy of the normal AR Invoice but with the Document Type hardcoded to display "Credit Memo" instead of the actual Document Type (which is Invoice!) ... so it looks like a CM even though it's an Invoice ... but it is still negative :-(
And of course as this is a workaround rather than a true RMA/Customer Returns process so you still need to manage the process from outside compiere.
Thanks Colin for the insights.
As Colin says you can create a new document with a label of credit note that effectively prints a negative invoice.
In case you want to go one step further and change the doc type to credit memo and the qty to positive to get a "real" credit note then be aware of the following bug.
Thank you very much for the description of customer return process...I am attempting to use the "Credit Order" to deal with my customer returns. However, the Credit Order is more automatic than what I need - In my case, the customer requested refund but not guaranteed to send products back to warehouse (sometimes the products are lost in mail...) Therefore, what I need to document is the Order, Invoice and Payment for sure, while Shipment does not have to created if the products are not back at all. So the idea process is automatic Order->Shipment->Payment (if cash), and manual Shipment.
I tried to modify the doc type of "Credit Order" to leave the Shipment blank, but it does not allow to complete the order...Any thoughts here? Q
Sorry it is me again...sounds like "SO sub type" is controlling the level of automation and is there a way to modify it? Q
Any ideas here? All I wanted to do is to generate invoice from "Credit order" automatically, and leave the shipment to be created later on. Looks like modifying the doc type of "Credit order" does not help - it either automatize invoice+shipment together, or leave both to be generated manually. Thank you very much!
The thing is ... Since the RMA is not available the negative order is simply a workaround for this. Now if we create an order it's expected to be shipped. (under normal circumstances). If you don't auto ship & invoice it will turn up in your picking lists etc as an order ready for delivery. Likewise for the Invoice, it "could" be consilidated into another. So to stop that the suggested workaround is to create a Credit Order. But as I said at the start; you must still manage the return process outside of the system! i.e. so you must put that order aside and wait for it ... or at least have some procedure to handle it.
If you don't want a shipment then why not skip the whole order thing and manually create a Credit Memo? You could physcially place returned good aside and depending on the volumes set a period and just do a "physical count" on those items to effectively create a stock adjustment? But again you'll need to have your own method of tracking who did return items and who didn't (or at least whose itmes got lost!).
Until the completed RMA functionality is there, it will always be some workaround like this that doesn't quiet fit!
Thanks Colin. Skipping the order and start from a credit memo is a good idea (thanks for the reminding...we were stuck at the order level as we wanted to document every transaction from order then invoice...). As to the products shipped back from the customers or prdoucts that need to be re-shipped to the customers due to lost in mail, "physical count" will not document the customer information as you've mentioned. A workaround that I am considering is to create a credit order with negative quantity but zero price, so the invoice will be zero value but shipment will affect the inventory correctly. The only difference is this method allows the customer info documented in the GL.
When do you expect the RMA module be available?
re: reate a credit order with negative quantity but zero price
Be mindful that while you can enter a zero price, the cost will not be zero, so I think you should pay special attention to the iover all impact on the you revenue & cogs accounts to be sure you are getting what you expect from eth process!
re: When do you expect the RMA module be available?
Well I'm as much in the dark as you on that point.
Adaxa has access to 253d and he didn't indicate in his reply that RMA was available there so I think you could be waiting a while.
Have you been following this discussion?
RE: Create a credit order with negative quantity but zero price
As the invoice is zero amount, the Revenue account will not be affected. The shipment's impact to GL is COGS debitted a negative amount and product asset credited a negative amount, and both amounts are calculated based on the cost rather than invoice so they are not zero for sure. I believe this impact to the book is what we want in the accounting world - any comments from the accountants?
On the other hand, if we use "Physical Inventory" to adjust the quantity of products re-shipped to customer or returned from customer, the postings to GL will be Debit and Credit to COGS account, and no effect to Product Asset account...Does this seem more reasonable in terms of accounting?
Really appreciated your thinkiing here which triggers some discussion within our team to make sure our workflow in compiere reflects the business process...
Thanks to the link of red1...how different is red1 from sourceforge.net forum here? I seldom visit red1 forum before -
RE: Create a credit order with negative quantity but zero price
Actuall yeah I think that's correct... I was thinking because of the zero price the revenue would not have been adjusted correctly, but the Credit Memo would have already accuonted for that! So yeah I think that sounds like a good idea! But I'm not accountant :-)
re: physcial inventory
Actuall I think it would effect the Product Asset but not the CoGs... it would also effect an Inventory Shrinkage or gain account too depending of if the stock was up or down.... I think your previous suggestion was probably the best solution.
well red1 is just the personal site of a individual (red1) who uses it to shared his knowledge of compiere, and hopes to encourage other sto share. But the lnk was of a discussion currently taking place by people who were unhappy with progress of Compiere ... the result of th discussion looks evry much like a split from compiere to craete a new project based on 253b, with the first priority to fix the large number of bugs & also complete the basic functioanlities ... rather than move on with new functionalities as compiere have. I was pretty close to completing the compiere implementation I was working on but now I think I'll go with this new forked version... since I was preparing my implementation with a 253a and they have a 253b with many bug fixes already applied by some partners & ex-partners ... I'm thinking that might be the most stable release!
anyway good luck with yours
Sorry to come in long after the discussion tailed off:
Suggested workaround with fewest accounting problems, I hope:
1) Use Sales Order (DocType Standard Order) and enter negative quantity. Set "Invoice rule" to immediate. Set Delivery Rule to "Manual". Complete the Order.
2) Generate negative invoice immediately. Do payment immediately if that's what has happenned.
3) Process the receipt of the return when it happens. Depending on your warehouse shopfloor procedures, you could generate the negative "ship" immediately with a confirmation waiting to be confirmed.
4) If it doesn't come back, you are left with an unfulfilled negative "ship" hanging. Need to do housekeeping to generate that ship with a confirm, put confirmed quantity zero, and complete the ship.
It would be nice if there was a DocType which would generate the invoice for you, but there ain't. If you are or have a developer, you can put a button onto the Sales Order window which will generate one invoice.