comp-hist-devel

[Comp-hist-devel] 1.0

[Scott F. <sj...@ra...>]

OK, now that that website is up (thanks) and we have that unix tree merged in (thank me), what do you people think should be let until we put 1.0 out? Just a thought for you to discuss. Please do.

-Scott

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Re: [Comp-hist-devel] 1.0

[Kurt R. <ku...@ra...>]

I'd rather put 0.6 out first, and see what happens.  We should then do some sort of code freeze, get the bugs out, and finally put out 1.0
-Kurt
On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:02:24PM -0400, Scott Fenton wrote:
> OK, now that that website is up (thanks) and we have that unix tree merged in (thank me), what do you people think should be let until we put 1.0 out? Just a thought for you to discuss. Please do.
> 
> -Scott
> 
> -- 
> pub  1024D/B5A525FA 2000-08-26 Scott Fenton <sj...@ra...>
> sub  1024g/A41E2502 2000-08-26 
> _______________________________________________
> Comp-hist-devel mailing list
> Com...@li...  
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/comp-hist-devel

Re: [Comp-hist-devel] 1.0

[Christophe F. <Chr...@fn...>]

I think we are not ready to release 1.0 We've got a lot of data about a lot
of different OSes and computers and ... but we don't have any convenient
means to display it. We've got our parsers to graphvidz and vcg but we've
got far too much information to display so it is not usable. As I already
wrote, we've got to sort all the data we've got with respect to its
importance if we want to simplify the display.
We'll also have to write a visualization library which suits our needs (and
maybe we'll use our c parser which currently is not really useful). Indeed,
with all the data we've got, we should provide an easy way to visualise it
and to browse through it. If we decide to write a visualization library, I'm
not sure whether we should integrate it in 1.0 or not. We also have to find
what is the most appropriate means of displaying our database.

Summary : we should wait to release 1.0 because we've got a lot of
information but nearly nothing to use it easily

        Christophe

----- Original Message -----
From: Kurt Raschke <ku...@ra...>
To: <com...@li...>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Comp-hist-devel] 1.0


> I'd rather put 0.6 out first, and see what happens.  We should then do
some sort of code freeze, get the bugs out, and finally put out 1.0
> -Kurt
> On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:02:24PM -0400, Scott Fenton wrote:
> > OK, now that that website is up (thanks) and we have that unix tree
merged in (thank me), what do you people think should be let until we put
1.0 out? Just a thought for you to discuss. Please do.
> >
> > -Scott
> >
> > --
> > pub  1024D/B5A525FA 2000-08-26 Scott Fenton <sj...@ra...>
> > sub  1024g/A41E2502 2000-08-26
> > _______________________________________________
> > Comp-hist-devel mailing list
> > Com...@li...
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/comp-hist-devel
> _______________________________________________
> Comp-hist-devel mailing list
> Com...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/comp-hist-devel

Re: [Comp-hist-devel] 1.0

[Hans B P. <ha...@di...>]

Christophe Fergeau wrote:
 
> I think we are not ready to release 1.0 We've got a lot of data about a lot
> of different OSes and computers and ... but we don't have any convenient
> means to display it. We've got our parsers to graphvidz and vcg but we've
> got far too much information to display so it is not usable. As I already
> wrote, we've got to sort all the data we've got with respect to its
> importance if we want to simplify the display.

I completely agree, we need to sort out the data and provide a better
display facility, based on html/xml.

I would also repeat a suggestion I made some time ago - a facility for
anyone to be able to provide input simply. I see this as being an edit
link on each displayed node, a form pops up with that node's data and
the user can edit/add information. When the form is submitted, it is
saved in an edit file which is immediatley visible to subsequent users
but allows us to moderate what goes into the definitive database.

The problem I see at this point is that in order for anyone to provide
real input they need to download, make and manually search the database,
many very knowledgable folks with valuable input will not be willing to
do that.

> We'll also have to write a visualization library which suits our needs (and
> maybe we'll use our c parser which currently is not really useful). Indeed,
> with all the data we've got, we should provide an easy way to visualise it
> and to browse through it. If we decide to write a visualization library, I'm
> not sure whether we should integrate it in 1.0 or not. We also have to find
> what is the most appropriate means of displaying our database.

Take a look at the CCC search page for a simple way of
searching/displaying.

> Summary : we should wait to release 1.0 because we've got a lot of
> information but nearly nothing to use it easily

I agree, quite a bit more work before we can really say it's 1.0

 -- Hans

Re: [Comp-hist-devel] 1.0

[Scott F. <sj...@ra...>]

On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 07:36:33AM +0100, the keyboard of Hans B Pufal wrote:
> Christophe Fergeau wrote:
>  
> > I think we are not ready to release 1.0 We've got a lot of data about a lot
> > of different OSes and computers and ... but we don't have any convenient
> > means to display it. We've got our parsers to graphvidz and vcg but we've
> > got far too much information to display so it is not usable. As I already
> > wrote, we've got to sort all the data we've got with respect to its
> > importance if we want to simplify the display.
> 
> I completely agree, we need to sort out the data and provide a better
> display facility, based on html/xml.

An XML database sounds like an interesting idea. I'll look into it.

> 
> I would also repeat a suggestion I made some time ago - a facility for
> anyone to be able to provide input simply. I see this as being an edit
> link on each displayed node, a form pops up with that node's data and
> the user can edit/add information. When the form is submitted, it is
> saved in an edit file which is immediatley visible to subsequent users
> but allows us to moderate what goes into the definitive database.
> 

Sounds like an interesting compromise. I'll have to see.

> The problem I see at this point is that in order for anyone to provide
> real input they need to download, make and manually search the database,
> many very knowledgable folks with valuable input will not be willing to
> do that.
> 
> > We'll also have to write a visualization library which suits our needs (and
> > maybe we'll use our c parser which currently is not really useful). Indeed,
> > with all the data we've got, we should provide an easy way to visualise it
> > and to browse through it. If we decide to write a visualization library, I'm
> > not sure whether we should integrate it in 1.0 or not. We also have to find
> > what is the most appropriate means of displaying our database.
> 
> Take a look at the CCC search page for a simple way of
> searching/displaying.
> 
> > Summary : we should wait to release 1.0 because we've got a lot of
> > information but nearly nothing to use it easily
> 
> I agree, quite a bit more work before we can really say it's 1.0
> 
>  -- Hans
> _______________________________________________
> Comp-hist-devel mailing list
> Com...@li...  
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/comp-hist-devel

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Re: [Comp-hist-devel] 1.0

[Kurt R. <ku...@ra...>]

Below are my thoughts on this subject:
On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 06:51:11AM -0400, Scott Fenton wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 07:36:33AM +0100, the keyboard of Hans B Pufal wrote:
> > Christophe Fergeau wrote:
> >  
> > > I think we are not ready to release 1.0 We've got a lot of data about a lot
> > > of different OSes and computers and ... but we don't have any convenient
> > > means to display it. We've got our parsers to graphvidz and vcg but we've
> > > got far too much information to display so it is not usable. As I already
> > > wrote, we've got to sort all the data we've got with respect to its
> > > importance if we want to simplify the display.
> > 
> > I completely agree, we need to sort out the data and provide a better
> > display facility, based on html/xml.
> 
> An XML database sounds like an interesting idea. I'll look into it.
If we develop a decent DTD for it, then all someone would need would be an XML capable browser, if all they wanted to do was view it in a text format.
> > 
> > I would also repeat a suggestion I made some time ago - a facility for
> > anyone to be able to provide input simply. I see this as being an edit
> > link on each displayed node, a form pops up with that node's data and
> > the user can edit/add information. When the form is submitted, it is
> > saved in an edit file which is immediatley visible to subsequent users
> > but allows us to moderate what goes into the definitive database.
> > 
> 
> Sounds like an interesting compromise. I'll have to see.
I think my web form already /sort of/ provides for this, doesn't it?
> > The problem I see at this point is that in order for anyone to provide
> > real input they need to download, make and manually search the database,
> > many very knowledgable folks with valuable input will not be willing to
> > do that.
> > 
> > > We'll also have to write a visualization library which suits our needs (and
> > > maybe we'll use our c parser which currently is not really useful). Indeed,
> > > with all the data we've got, we should provide an easy way to visualise it
> > > and to browse through it. If we decide to write a visualization library, I'm
> > > not sure whether we should integrate it in 1.0 or not. We also have to find
> > > what is the most appropriate means of displaying our database.
> > 
> > Take a look at the CCC search page for a simple way of
> > searching/displaying.
> > 
(I've snipped a bit here.)
With regard to visualization, how about VRML?  That way, importance sould be shown by depth, as in the closer to you, the more important.  We'd probably also wnat to include Scott's idea of being able to collapse the tree by file, so that each file could be collapsed into one node.  For providing access to additional information, we could set things up so that clicking on a node takes you into a VRML "subworld" where we could add whatever information is appropriate.

-Kurt

Re: [Comp-hist-devel] 1.0

[Scott F. <sj...@ra...>]

On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 08:51:02PM -0400, the keyboard of Kurt Raschke wrote:
> Below are my thoughts on this subject:
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 06:51:11AM -0400, Scott Fenton wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 07:36:33AM +0100, the keyboard of Hans B Pufal wrote:
> > > Christophe Fergeau wrote:
> > >  
> > > > I think we are not ready to release 1.0 We've got a lot of data about a lot
> > > > of different OSes and computers and ... but we don't have any convenient
> > > > means to display it. We've got our parsers to graphvidz and vcg but we've
> > > > got far too much information to display so it is not usable. As I already
> > > > wrote, we've got to sort all the data we've got with respect to its
> > > > importance if we want to simplify the display.
> > > 
> > > I completely agree, we need to sort out the data and provide a better
> > > display facility, based on html/xml.
> > 
> > An XML database sounds like an interesting idea. I'll look into it.
> If we develop a decent DTD for it, then all someone would need would be an XML capable browser, if all they wanted to do was view it in a text format.

Or however the browser happens to render XML.

> > > 
> > > I would also repeat a suggestion I made some time ago - a facility for
> > > anyone to be able to provide input simply. I see this as being an edit
> > > link on each displayed node, a form pops up with that node's data and
> > > the user can edit/add information. When the form is submitted, it is
> > > saved in an edit file which is immediatley visible to subsequent users
> > > but allows us to moderate what goes into the definitive database.
> > > 
> > 
> > Sounds like an interesting compromise. I'll have to see.
> I think my web form already /sort of/ provides for this, doesn't it?

Yes it does, but what I think would be even more useful would be if you could do a file in CVS or on the website with all the data, so it starts off by being /in the tree/.

> > > The problem I see at this point is that in order for anyone to provide
> > > real input they need to download, make and manually search the database,
> > > many very knowledgable folks with valuable input will not be willing to
> > > do that.
> > > 
> > > > We'll also have to write a visualization library which suits our needs (and
> > > > maybe we'll use our c parser which currently is not really useful). Indeed,
> > > > with all the data we've got, we should provide an easy way to visualise it
> > > > and to browse through it. If we decide to write a visualization library, I'm
> > > > not sure whether we should integrate it in 1.0 or not. We also have to find
> > > > what is the most appropriate means of displaying our database.
> > > 
> > > Take a look at the CCC search page for a simple way of
> > > searching/displaying.
> > > 
> (I've snipped a bit here.)
> With regard to visualization, how about VRML?  That way, importance sould be shown by depth, as in the closer to you, the more important.  We'd probably also wnat to include Scott's idea of being able to collapse the tree by file, so that each file could be collapsed into one node.  For providing access to additional information, we could set things up so that clicking on a node takes you into a VRML "subworld" where we could add whatever information is appropriate.
>

All this neat stuff will be easier in day or two. Right now I'm working on a perl parser something like the C library. Once that's done, we'll be down to two real "parsers" and as many output formats as we want.

-Scott

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Re: [Comp-hist-devel] 1.0

[Hans B P. <ha...@di...>]

Scott Fenton wrote:

> > > An XML database sounds like an interesting idea. I'll look into it.
> > If we develop a decent DTD for it, then all someone would need would be an XML capable browser, if all they wanted to do was view it in a text format.
> 
> Or however the browser happens to render XML.

II really think XML is the way to go. There are lost of tools out there
for editing and displaying XML, we should be concentrating on getting
the information into a usable form not developing tools!

> > > > I would also repeat a suggestion I made some time ago - a facility for
> > > > anyone to be able to provide input simply. I see this as being an edit
> > > > link on each displayed node, a form pops up with that node's data and
> > > > the user can edit/add information. When the form is submitted, it is
> > > > saved in an edit file which is immediatley visible to subsequent users
> > > > but allows us to moderate what goes into the definitive database.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Sounds like an interesting compromise. I'll have to see.
> > I think my web form already /sort of/ provides for this, doesn't it?

Sort of, but it needs linking to a view of our data. The effort needed
to actually look at our data is way too high, download, make, eidt etc.
We MUST have a web based viewing system with an easy forma based
mechanism for the casual (though informed) user to provide input.

> > With regard to visualization, how about VRML?  That way, importance sould be shown by depth, as in the closer to you, the more important.  We'd probably also wnat to include Scott's idea of being able to collapse the tree by file, so that each file could be collapsed into one node.  For providing access to additional information, we could set things up so that clicking on a node takes you into a VRML "subworld" where we could add whatever information is appropriate.

This sounds interetsing! Where is VRML today I haven't heard much about
it recently!


  -- Hans

Re: [Comp-hist-devel] 1.0

[<chr...@en...>]

On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Hans B Pufal wrote:

> > > > > I would also repeat a suggestion I made some time ago - a facility for
> > > > > anyone to be able to provide input simply. I see this as being an edit
> > > > > link on each displayed node, a form pops up with that node's data and
> > > > > the user can edit/add information. When the form is submitted, it is
> > > > > saved in an edit file which is immediatley visible to subsequent users
> > > > > but allows us to moderate what goes into the definitive database.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sounds like an interesting compromise. I'll have to see.
> > > I think my web form already /sort of/ provides for this, doesn't it?
> 
> Sort of, but it needs linking to a view of our data. The effort needed
> to actually look at our data is way too high, download, make, eidt etc.
> We MUST have a web based viewing system with an easy forma based
> mechanism for the casual (though informed) user to provide input.
>

Concerning this problem, I think we could use php/mysql (or whichever
database you want). With the C parser, we can easily enter all the data
we've got into a database and then, easily browse it with php.
We could provide the opportunity to list all the nodes, to search for a
particular node and edit them. Then, we can add a link to allow the user
to modify the data. I'll start to work on it.

	Christophe
 
> 
>   -- Hans
> _______________________________________________
> Comp-hist-devel mailing list
> Com...@li...  
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/comp-hist-devel
>