Re: [Cobolforgcc-users] [Cobolforgcc-announce] Status of the COBOL For GCC project

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On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 15:20 -0500, Jeffrey Brower wrote:
> So are you saying that all they need is the compiled COBOL and the library
> and they will not have to install Cygwin or anything else?

GCC runs under mingw as I understand it so it should not be necessary to
install cygwin.

Having said that, I am developing on Linux and Windows support is a
secondary priority.

Tim Josling

> 
>    Jeff
>    
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tim [mailto:te...@me...] 
> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 4:30 AM
> To: Je...@Po...
> Subject: RE: [Cobolforgcc-announce] Status of the COBOL For GCC project
> 
> Jeffrey,
> 
> The runtime will be licensed under the LGPL and therefore free $0 for all
> uses. See http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.txt
> 
> My interpretation of this is that you can distribute copies of LGPL code
> such as libraries as long as you offer to provide the source code of the
> LGPL code. You are not required to provide souce code of your application
> just to the LGPLed library. 
> 
> I hope this addresses your concern about the runtime. If not please let me
> know.
> 
> Regards,
> Tim Josling
> 
> On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 19:35 -0500, Jeffrey Brower wrote:
> > Hi Tim.
> > 
> > I've been looking forward to this email - and I was wondering when it 
> > would come.
> > 
> > I have about 100,000 lines of my company's COBOL I can throw at it for 
> > testing.  Once you open it up for others to help, I can do some COBOL 
> > code if you can help me spec it out.  I have coded some in C and I am 
> > willing to learn LISP.  I own the company so there would be no issues
> there.
> > 
> > I would like to you reconsider the runtime just for the time it takes 
> > to read this email.
> > 
> > I would prefer to create COBOL programs that can execute natively on 
> > Solaris, OS X (really FreeBSD) and (I am ashamed to admit) Windows.  
> > When I hear about our customer installs (always on Windows) I 
> > constantly hear complaints against maintaining runtimes in addition to 
> > our stuff and refusing to install most COBOLs (and Cygwin) for that 
> > very reason.  I keep an ancient MicroFocus COBOL just to compile those 
> > programs (which run stand-alone in a DOS box - no runtime).  The 
> > Solaris and OS-X would be for me, the Windows for the clients that don't
> know better.
> > 
> > I have been using KOBOL from The Kompany and it scores 100% on the 
> > ANSII 85 test - but it does not have any built-in functions and that 
> > makes it hard to migrate to from MF COBOL.  It also requires Cygwin on 
> > Windows.  That makes it a non-starter for our software sales on that
> platform.
> > 
> > I truly believe that running native on Solaris, OSX and Windows can be 
> > a instant success mechanism -especially when the new MicroFocus 
> > runtime is charged in the thousands per CPU per year.  Our last quote 
> > came in over $10K just to compile and distribute a single 5,000 line 
> > program plus each installation had to pony up almost that year after 
> > year for the privilege to run it.
> > 
> > Imagine, just for a minute, the success of a COBOL that had no runtime 
> > and provides the feeling of protection that only comes from 
> > distributing stand-alone binary executables.  Fame.  And a chance to 
> > change the face of computing by unleashing billions of lines of code 
> > that are trapped behind huge fees and the barrier wall of runtimes.
> > 
> > Let me know if you see me as a fit in any way with your project.
> > 
> >    Jeff Brower
> >    Atlanta, GA - USA
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cob...@li...
> > [mailto:cob...@li...] On Behalf 
> > Of tim
> > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 6:02 PM
> > To: cob...@li...
> > Subject: [Cobolforgcc-announce] Status of the COBOL For GCC project
> > 
> > Work on the project stopped for a number of years, for good but 
> > uninteresting reasons, but I have recently started work again.
> > 
> > In fact I left my job recently to work on the project. I took a 
> > holiday first and I'm now working full time on the project. I plan for 
> > work on the project for at least six months and I think that will 
> > suffice to get a substantial part of the work done.
> > 
> > My plan is to get a minimal subset running and then put it up on 
> > sourceforge, at which point I will be inviting others to help.
> > 
> > Our first attempt produced 80,000 lines of code and I would estimate 
> > we were about 30% of the way there. I have started again with a 
> > different approach using LISP as the main language for the compiler 
> > front end instead of C. The interface to the GCC back end will still 
> > be in C but that will only be a few thousand lines. The runtime will 
> > be in a combination of C and a subset of COBOL. With this approach I 
> > think the whole thing will be less than 70,000 lines of code. Quite a bit
> of the code fromt he first attempt is reusable.
> > 
> > Expiriments I have done indicate that LISP programs require only about 
> > 10-20% of the lines of code of a comparable C program with almost 
> > proportionate productivity improvements and reductions in bugs, and 
> > with similar performance. LISP is not just for processing lists; it is 
> > a very powerful programming language and good open source 
> > implementations exist (eg SBCL, GCL, CMU Lisp). Some of these run on
> Windows as well as Unix variants.
> > There are a lot of good books, documentation and other training 
> > materials about LISP available on the internet.
> > 
> > The opportunities I see for people to help will be
> > 
> > COBOL Skills:
> > * Test your COBOL programs and submit bug reports.
> > * Work on the some of the runtime routines.
> > 
> > Lisp skills
> > * Work on the compiler front end (parser etc).
> > 
> > C Skills
> > * Work on the runtime routines.
> > 
> > C Skills and GCC Internals skills
> > * Work on the GCC back end interface.
> > 
> > As this is a Free Software Foundation project it will be necessary for 
> > anyone who makes more than a very small contribution to legally assign 
> > the copyright to the FSF, and to get a waiver from their employer or 
> > school or college as well.
> > 
> > I will issue more updates as I progress, at least on a monthly basis.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Tim Josling
> > 
> > 
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