I am looking for insight to the problems with Clonezilla (more appropriately, linux kernels) not functioning on devices controlled by Intel RST premium with Optane. I have found lots of great info from all the way back to 2008 (as far as i can tell) but i am left with some unanswered questions which i might have missed. As a side note, I thought it would be helpful to have a grouping of the most helpful links pertaining to this subject. Apologies if my questions are redundant/ignorant, or if a list of links to this topic has already been implemented. It’s been awhile since I’ve touched Linux--be gentle! A small list of four links are at the bottom for supporting others; please add to if I missed something.
And BTW--my god Steven--you and your team have worked so much at not only developing, but also responding to every single discussion! Echoing Mark Petersen’s words:
I believe you’re all doing a great job at keeping it updated and creating new ideas.
Getting to it! As I understand, Intel devices that are running RST/Optane and are not currently supported by Linux kernels require first adjusting BIOS settings:
Check that your SATA settings are on "AHCI".
UEFI Boot Path Security set to "Never".
Secure Boot Enable set to “Disabled”
Now it seems this method works, but i have read and likely discovered myself that this causes CZ to read the entire partition as full: creating a “raw” image of the entire drive, including unused space. I would then imagine that if the image was used to recover a drive, that it would rewrite--everything! I believe this poses problems:
Many, including myself, are using SSDs. If i used this workaround, wouldn’t the recovery image i restore rewrite the entire drive, including unused space? Isn’t that just as bad--or worse--than defragmenting the drive?
I believe I was successful in creating an image of my SSD in question by placing the Intel driven drive into an external adapter, and running CZ on an AMD driven device. At the time I didnt even know Intel RST was a thing, nor a problem. Now I am concerned that the image I created externally will not be restorable while the drive is installed in the original Intel device: an ASUS Zenbook 13 - UX333FAC.
a). . . . . For example, even if I place the BIOS into AHCI, wouldn’t CZ restore the externally extracted image in a different manner than if it was restoring a “raw” image (extracted while the SSD is in the intel device, in AHCI mode)? If that’s the case, would the restored SSD boot back up correctly when the BIOS is placed back into RST/Optane? If not, that means i have to take the drive back out of this tiny azz laptop if/when i want to implement the image… risky and a time-suck! I’ve zapped main boards, and cracked housings at my work by doing less.
Wont “raw” images created like this be significantly larger than needed? How is this method different from creating a compressed dd image?
a). . . . . The size of the external image vs the “raw” image I previously mentioned are at 12.3 GB and 27.6 GB. To note, this is not a 1:1 comparison but close enough. Both images are of the ASUS laptop: the 1st, the external img of it untouched; the 2nd, an internal img of it after turned on and unwanted bloatware removed+windows recovery flash drive created--if that matters… This means once again, I have to take the drive back out of this tiny azz laptop if/when i want to extract a new image!
It seems like there are solutions which allow for CZ to run while RST is active. The first is to attempt to find a version of CZ that supports one’s device hardware as the linux kernel changes everything. To note, I went through 9 versions of CZ-live: 2 stable, 3 testing, and 4 old versions. There was no mention of required BIOS setting changes for the kernel to recognize the hardware so i left them in the default state. If need be, i can run through them again having different settings--loving how fast my type-c flash drive is!
Second seems to be using mdadm. I know nothing about this so i haven't tried, but I’m interested!
Third, there seems to be some type of RST driver for Linux out there. Again know nothing about it, but still interested.
So how about you peoples’:
- Any other suggestions or info to add, or perhaps other helpful links to share?
- Does anyone have insight to my questions? I know I'm wrong, tell me how please.
- Can anyone get an ASUS Zenbook 13 - UX333FAC to do the thing with native RST settings?
- If AHCI is the only way to go, any suggestions to create a cleaner image?
- If there's anything I can test I would be happy to do so, however I'm gonna need some serious instructive support. I am a technician who likes doing these things, but have I mentioned it's been awhile since Ive touched a Linux terminal?
‘18: Intel Optane Cloning.
Mentioning a pitfall of the workaround: switching to AHCI causing CZ to back up the “raw” data of a partition, including the unused space. Also mentioning an Intel RST driver supporting Linux. Unsure if the driver is useful.
Alexander,
Thanks for sharing this. I actually have no any experience about Intel Optane memory. Maybe I have to buy one and try it on GNU/Linux. However, it seems Intel Optane memory is not available on the market anymore? I can not find it online...
Steven
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I feel like its more likely that im not using the terminology correctly. The ASUS Zenbook 13 laptop was bought new ~3 weeks ago specs here. Based on readings on the ROG forum "Intel RST w/Optane" seems like just a name for Intel's newest chipsets/storage controllers in order to manage SATA / PCIe. Based on Table Rocker's comments (discussion attached below) they do this by creating a virtual RAID. I believe this is considered FakeRAID?
Based on what ive read before, it sounded like CZ/Linux on hardware using any kind of RAID is supported differently for each device. Is this correct?
RAID is complicated, and diverse. Clonezilla does not support it well.
I do not have any machine which comes with "Intel RST w/Optane" so I actually have no idea how it's run on GNU/Linux. Do you know any version of Linux kernel supports that?
Thanks.
Steven
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
During my searches I saw several "solutions" like this for ubuntu and others. To which I thought someone might have used a tweak like this to get clonezilla running, but Im not experienced enough to recognize if theyre usefull for clonezilla or not.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I am looking for insight to the problems with Clonezilla (more appropriately, linux kernels) not functioning on devices controlled by Intel RST premium with Optane. I have found lots of great info from all the way back to 2008 (as far as i can tell) but i am left with some unanswered questions which i might have missed. As a side note, I thought it would be helpful to have a grouping of the most helpful links pertaining to this subject. Apologies if my questions are redundant/ignorant, or if a list of links to this topic has already been implemented. It’s been awhile since I’ve touched Linux--be gentle! A small list of four links are at the bottom for supporting others; please add to if I missed something.
And BTW--my god Steven--you and your team have worked so much at not only developing, but also responding to every single discussion! Echoing Mark Petersen’s words:
Getting to it! As I understand, Intel devices that are running RST/Optane and are not currently supported by Linux kernels require first adjusting BIOS settings:
Now it seems this method works, but i have read and likely discovered myself that this causes CZ to read the entire partition as full: creating a “raw” image of the entire drive, including unused space. I would then imagine that if the image was used to recover a drive, that it would rewrite--everything! I believe this poses problems:
Many, including myself, are using SSDs. If i used this workaround, wouldn’t the recovery image i restore rewrite the entire drive, including unused space? Isn’t that just as bad--or worse--than defragmenting the drive?
I believe I was successful in creating an image of my SSD in question by placing the Intel driven drive into an external adapter, and running CZ on an AMD driven device. At the time I didnt even know Intel RST was a thing, nor a problem. Now I am concerned that the image I created externally will not be restorable while the drive is installed in the original Intel device: an ASUS Zenbook 13 - UX333FAC.
a). . . . . For example, even if I place the BIOS into AHCI, wouldn’t CZ restore the externally extracted image in a different manner than if it was restoring a “raw” image (extracted while the SSD is in the intel device, in AHCI mode)? If that’s the case, would the restored SSD boot back up correctly when the BIOS is placed back into RST/Optane? If not, that means i have to take the drive back out of this tiny azz laptop if/when i want to implement the image… risky and a time-suck! I’ve zapped main boards, and cracked housings at my work by doing less.
Wont “raw” images created like this be significantly larger than needed? How is this method different from creating a compressed dd image?
a). . . . . The size of the external image vs the “raw” image I previously mentioned are at 12.3 GB and 27.6 GB. To note, this is not a 1:1 comparison but close enough. Both images are of the ASUS laptop: the 1st, the external img of it untouched; the 2nd, an internal img of it after turned on and unwanted bloatware removed+windows recovery flash drive created--if that matters… This means once again, I have to take the drive back out of this tiny azz laptop if/when i want to extract a new image!
It seems like there are solutions which allow for CZ to run while RST is active. The first is to attempt to find a version of CZ that supports one’s device hardware as the linux kernel changes everything. To note, I went through 9 versions of CZ-live: 2 stable, 3 testing, and 4 old versions. There was no mention of required BIOS setting changes for the kernel to recognize the hardware so i left them in the default state. If need be, i can run through them again having different settings--loving how fast my type-c flash drive is!
clonezilla-live-2.6.5-21-amd64
clonezilla-live-2.6.6-15-amd64
clonezilla-live-2.6.7-28-amd64
clonezilla-live-2.6.8-1-amd64
clonezilla-live-20200302-eoan-amd64
clonezilla-live-20200428-focal-amd64
clonezilla-live-20200703-focal-amd64
clonezilla-live-20200809-focal-amd64
clonezilla-live-20200809-groovy-amd64
Second seems to be using mdadm. I know nothing about this so i haven't tried, but I’m interested!
Third, there seems to be some type of RST driver for Linux out there. Again know nothing about it, but still interested.
So how about you peoples’:
- Any other suggestions or info to add, or perhaps other helpful links to share?
- Does anyone have insight to my questions? I know I'm wrong, tell me how please.
- Can anyone get an ASUS Zenbook 13 - UX333FAC to do the thing with native RST settings?
- If AHCI is the only way to go, any suggestions to create a cleaner image?
- If there's anything I can test I would be happy to do so, however I'm gonna need some serious instructive support. I am a technician who likes doing these things, but have I mentioned it's been awhile since Ive touched a Linux terminal?
‘08-14: clonezilla and raid.
Earliest discussion and 1st support of fakeRAID.
‘16-17: Make Clonezilla able to understand mdadm raid volumes
Mentioning the use of mdadm; Quote-- Mark Petersen; and how I wish all support discussions would look like online.
‘18: Intel Optane Cloning.
Mentioning a pitfall of the workaround: switching to AHCI causing CZ to back up the “raw” data of a partition, including the unused space. Also mentioning an Intel RST driver supporting Linux. Unsure if the driver is useful.
‘18-19: #289 Unable to detect NVMe drive when booting Clonezilla in UEFI mode
Most plain explanation of a workaround and source info--Guy Painsky.
Last edit: Alexander 2020-08-16
Alexander,
Thanks for sharing this. I actually have no any experience about Intel Optane memory. Maybe I have to buy one and try it on GNU/Linux. However, it seems Intel Optane memory is not available on the market anymore? I can not find it online...
Steven
Hi Steven,
I feel like its more likely that im not using the terminology correctly. The ASUS Zenbook 13 laptop was bought new ~3 weeks ago specs here. Based on readings on the ROG forum "Intel RST w/Optane" seems like just a name for Intel's newest chipsets/storage controllers in order to manage SATA / PCIe. Based on Table Rocker's comments (discussion attached below) they do this by creating a virtual RAID. I believe this is considered FakeRAID?
Based on what ive read before, it sounded like CZ/Linux on hardware using any kind of RAID is supported differently for each device. Is this correct?
To jog memory, your last couple replies to similar complaints were to:
- Table Rocker, April CloneZilla on Acer Nitro 5
- bookie56, Jan Hard drive not found by clonezilla live
Last edit: Alexander 2020-08-16
RAID is complicated, and diverse. Clonezilla does not support it well.
I do not have any machine which comes with "Intel RST w/Optane" so I actually have no idea how it's run on GNU/Linux. Do you know any version of Linux kernel supports that?
Thanks.
Steven
Dont have time right now, but Ill look into that as soon as i can. A quick search brought up several DIY fixes people have done for example: Ubuntu – How to use Intel Optane Memory for SSD Caching.
During my searches I saw several "solutions" like this for ubuntu and others. To which I thought someone might have used a tweak like this to get clonezilla running, but Im not experienced enough to recognize if theyre usefull for clonezilla or not.
Thanks. Maybe you can share those you have found, and we will try to know if it works for Clonezilla or not.
Steven
thank you so much for your support. i apologise for being absent. i will do my best to have a response by the end of next weekend.
No problem. Please take your time since we are all busy, too.
Steven