I'm cloning a Dell XPS desktop machine with two RAID1 (they are mirrored, but I can never remember what number that is) 150GB drives. XP is installed with updates, drivers, etc.. I can successfully clone device-image to a USB hd, but when I move that clone to another identical machine (they are hardware identical, even the same service tag), I get the NTLDR missing message when I try to boot from the hard drive again. I have tried a variety of the image creation and restore options for NTFS images, but no dice. I searched the forums, and I found some similar discussion, but nothing quite like my problem. I have tried a straight dd clone, ntfsclone, and of course the usual particlone->-> etc. Interestingly, the ntfsclone gave me a different error.
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Anonymous
-
2010-06-22
Apologies. I sent that first one too soon. When restoring the ntfsclone image, I get this error:
Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corrupt:
/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/CONFIG/SYSTEM
You can attempt to repair this file by …. (using recovering console)
I have noted another forum post that said the images can be corrupted, so for extensive testing of the ntfs clone version, I used separate images for each test. My next plan is to go back to default clone, with many copies, and try each of the many restore options.
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Anonymous
-
2010-06-29
Thanks for responding, Steven. While I didn't find that exact post (Search fail: I was searching for the specific error rather than for missing OS), I have tried the restore options that the FAQ suggests. I have tried a few of the others (ntfsfix and recovery console: neither worked), but they are not really viable solutions. This is a very simple clone (as far as I can tell), and it can't be a case of one-time image corruption or something as I have had this result with more than one machine and with several images. Further, this is for a research lab, and the restore solution must be as simple as possible. It also seems strange that a clean image would require repair once it is restored. Any other ideas?
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What is fishy to me is that Dell Service Tags are unique to each machine. You should not have any two machines with the same service tag. Are these gray market?
If all your machines have physical RAID1 mirroring, then you don't need any software cloning application.
What happens when you break the mirror and physically move one of the drives to another machine?
Do you get the same error?
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Did you make sure that the BIOS level version and configuration is the same on all machines?
Sure it does not say IDE as opposed to RAID on the other system? Try toggling it.
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Anonymous
-
2010-06-30
Thanks for your replies, Robert. I'll try to answer each:
1) Service Tags: These are not actually unique. If you buy a bunch of identical machines (ie for a lab), they all come with the same service tag. It simplifies things for both parties.
2) Physically moving the drive works. However, this is not a workable solution for my purposes. I need something that can be simplified enough for only moderately technical users to do. Further, physical (read: inside the case) access to the machines is severely restricted. Basically, I am hoping for the same solution I am able to use for my Macs (which I do with Clonezilla): user's machine has problems, user grabs portable hd and boot cd, user follows simple instructions for restore, user fixes their own machine. I have a very unique lab situation where users are trusted (with admin access and access to a portable hd) and have some technical knowledge. However, if the steps get too complicated, they will just call me, and that's part of what I want to avoid. I also want to avoid the "it's 3 am and I just need a machine that prints, but no one is here to fix it" problem.
3) At the moment, I am trying to clone back to the same machine as even that is not working, so the BIOS stuff should be identical. However, I will try toggling and get back to you.
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If the problem is on the boot loader, maybe you can try to install grub as the boot loader. It's easier for Clonezilla to clone and re-enable that on the destination disk.
I knew this is not a perfect solution, but when you have no other solution, and when I can not find why it fails there, this could be the best one I can find now.
Steven.
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Hope you got these workstations working by now. If so, let us know what was done to make it bootable. If not, don't give up.
The following are some random thoughts and hope that one or more of these would fix things.
Over the years, the solution has evolved. Solution D. has been parallel to some of the others.
A.) fdisk /mbr
B.) Adding entries to the boot.ini text file to point to the correct disk.
C.) bcdedit.exe and bcdboot.exe because boot.ini not necessarily used in WinVista / Win7.
D.) Using "F8" to repair a broken boot up.
If you are doing a disk-to-image, then i would not think this would be an issue. But i suppose it could be there is a hidden boot partition that is not getting duplicated?
If you are doing a partition-to-image, and there are separate boot and system partitions, then copying some files and marking the partition bootable may get things working.
Since these are new machines, they are most certainly EFI based. EFI installations may only use boot.ini for older operating systems, Win7 may exclusively use Boot Configuration Data and not use boot.ini at all. What version of Windows are you cloning?
The second screen shot is the easy thing to - "F8" at bootup - windows may be able to repair itself - look at the WinRE section. I do remember having to use F8 to boot identically cloned machines before.
Interesting that machines are shipped with the same service tag because i was thinking that was the same as the serial number. Obviously, your shop is bigger than my shop.
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Anonymous
-
2010-07-06
Thanks again for all of the suggestions! First, I must say that I am away from my machines for two weeks, so unfortunately, I can't try anything new for a while, but I suppose we can still discuss. However, feel free to just ignore me for a couple of weeks!
1) Grub: this seems like a reasonable solution. A solution that means front-end work for me, but allows good imaging is fine. I assume that a grubbed machine will NOT need grub to be reinstalled after the image, right?
2) fdisk /mbr
This one I have tried. Sometimes it causes a blue screen of death which is worrisome. There is a BIOS update that I may try.
3) I have not yet tried BCD-based or F8 solution.
Some quick info:
- I am cloning XP
- Machines are native XP (so 3 years old approximately), and that's what I'm trying to image/restore. Does that mean they are EFI? I assume that since they are XP the bcdedit solutions will not work. Is that right?
- I am doing a whole disk to image clone, so I should be having the minimum number of problems. Something hidden is still possible. I should look at the partitions with linux. Will "hidden" partitions show up in Clonezilla when I'm selecting partitions?
I have tried the other repair options (F2 automated repair, and recovery console), but I'm looking forward to giving this F8 magic a shot. Thanks again for all you help, folks.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I'm cloning a Dell XPS desktop machine with two RAID1 (they are mirrored, but I can never remember what number that is) 150GB drives. XP is installed with updates, drivers, etc.. I can successfully clone device-image to a USB hd, but when I move that clone to another identical machine (they are hardware identical, even the same service tag), I get the NTLDR missing message when I try to boot from the hard drive again. I have tried a variety of the image creation and restore options for NTFS images, but no dice. I searched the forums, and I found some similar discussion, but nothing quite like my problem. I have tried a straight dd clone, ntfsclone, and of course the usual particlone->-> etc. Interestingly, the ntfsclone gave me a different error.
Apologies. I sent that first one too soon. When restoring the ntfsclone image, I get this error:
Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corrupt:
/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/CONFIG/SYSTEM
You can attempt to repair this file by …. (using recovering console)
I have noted another forum post that said the images can be corrupted, so for extensive testing of the ntfs clone version, I used separate images for each test. My next plan is to go back to default clone, with many copies, and try each of the many restore options.
Maybe you can check this:
http://drbl.sourceforge.net/faq/fine-print.php?path=./2_System/23_Missing_OS.faq#23_Missing_OS.faq
Steven.
Thanks for responding, Steven. While I didn't find that exact post (Search fail: I was searching for the specific error rather than for missing OS), I have tried the restore options that the FAQ suggests. I have tried a few of the others (ntfsfix and recovery console: neither worked), but they are not really viable solutions. This is a very simple clone (as far as I can tell), and it can't be a case of one-time image corruption or something as I have had this result with more than one machine and with several images. Further, this is for a research lab, and the restore solution must be as simple as possible. It also seems strange that a clean image would require repair once it is restored. Any other ideas?
What is fishy to me is that Dell Service Tags are unique to each machine. You should not have any two machines with the same service tag. Are these gray market?
If all your machines have physical RAID1 mirroring, then you don't need any software cloning application.
What happens when you break the mirror and physically move one of the drives to another machine?
Do you get the same error?
Did you make sure that the BIOS level version and configuration is the same on all machines?
Sure it does not say IDE as opposed to RAID on the other system? Try toggling it.
Thanks for your replies, Robert. I'll try to answer each:
1) Service Tags: These are not actually unique. If you buy a bunch of identical machines (ie for a lab), they all come with the same service tag. It simplifies things for both parties.
2) Physically moving the drive works. However, this is not a workable solution for my purposes. I need something that can be simplified enough for only moderately technical users to do. Further, physical (read: inside the case) access to the machines is severely restricted. Basically, I am hoping for the same solution I am able to use for my Macs (which I do with Clonezilla): user's machine has problems, user grabs portable hd and boot cd, user follows simple instructions for restore, user fixes their own machine. I have a very unique lab situation where users are trusted (with admin access and access to a portable hd) and have some technical knowledge. However, if the steps get too complicated, they will just call me, and that's part of what I want to avoid. I also want to avoid the "it's 3 am and I just need a machine that prints, but no one is here to fix it" problem.
3) At the moment, I am trying to clone back to the same machine as even that is not working, so the BIOS stuff should be identical. However, I will try toggling and get back to you.
If the problem is on the boot loader, maybe you can try to install grub as the boot loader. It's easier for Clonezilla to clone and re-enable that on the destination disk.
I knew this is not a perfect solution, but when you have no other solution, and when I can not find why it fails there, this could be the best one I can find now.
Steven.
Hope you got these workstations working by now. If so, let us know what was done to make it bootable. If not, don't give up.
The following are some random thoughts and hope that one or more of these would fix things.
Over the years, the solution has evolved. Solution D. has been parallel to some of the others.
A.) fdisk /mbr
B.) Adding entries to the boot.ini text file to point to the correct disk.
C.) bcdedit.exe and bcdboot.exe because boot.ini not necessarily used in WinVista / Win7.
D.) Using "F8" to repair a broken boot up.
If you are doing a disk-to-image, then i would not think this would be an issue. But i suppose it could be there is a hidden boot partition that is not getting duplicated?
If you are doing a partition-to-image, and there are separate boot and system partitions, then copying some files and marking the partition bootable may get things working.
Since these are new machines, they are most certainly EFI based. EFI installations may only use boot.ini for older operating systems, Win7 may exclusively use Boot Configuration Data and not use boot.ini at all. What version of Windows are you cloning?
Look at the two screenshots in the following URL:
http://www.multibooters.co.uk/articles/windows_seven.html#ntldr_object
Wondering if you have looked at bcdedit.exe?
The second screen shot is the easy thing to - "F8" at bootup - windows may be able to repair itself - look at the WinRE section. I do remember having to use F8 to boot identically cloned machines before.
If the machines are cloned when hibernated, that would result in a different BCD than when Windows was Shutdown.
http://www.multibooters.co.uk/links.html
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc721886%28WS.10%29.aspx
Interesting that machines are shipped with the same service tag because i was thinking that was the same as the serial number. Obviously, your shop is bigger than my shop.
This white paper word document may be something else we all need to know. Haven't read it, but may be important.
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/firmware/bcdedit_reff.mspx
Thanks again for all of the suggestions! First, I must say that I am away from my machines for two weeks, so unfortunately, I can't try anything new for a while, but I suppose we can still discuss. However, feel free to just ignore me for a couple of weeks!
1) Grub: this seems like a reasonable solution. A solution that means front-end work for me, but allows good imaging is fine. I assume that a grubbed machine will NOT need grub to be reinstalled after the image, right?
2) fdisk /mbr
This one I have tried. Sometimes it causes a blue screen of death which is worrisome. There is a BIOS update that I may try.
3) I have not yet tried BCD-based or F8 solution.
Some quick info:
- I am cloning XP
- Machines are native XP (so 3 years old approximately), and that's what I'm trying to image/restore. Does that mean they are EFI? I assume that since they are XP the bcdedit solutions will not work. Is that right?
- I am doing a whole disk to image clone, so I should be having the minimum number of problems. Something hidden is still possible. I should look at the partitions with linux. Will "hidden" partitions show up in Clonezilla when I'm selecting partitions?
I have tried the other repair options (F2 automated repair, and recovery console), but I'm looking forward to giving this F8 magic a shot. Thanks again for all you help, folks.