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#229 A few minor suggestion
I really like your tool.
Here some features I think would be nice.
Windows-Key:
Tapping twice switches to the other UI (Modern/Metro / Desktop)
Shift Windows is nice, but in addition Windows+Shift would also be nice.
Option to Switch from Metro only to Desktop over key. Without opening the Menu.
Like from Metro: Tapping Windows-Key only switches to the UI (no opening of any kind of menu)
Please please:
Try to recreate 1-2 skins that look more natural.
I understand that you're not a graphics guy but this is really important to new users as many (pretty sure) will think 'If this doesn't look right. I won't use it"
I really enjoy your program but my this was one of my first thoughts. - The skins aren't standard as we know it doesn't match the default experience we unfortunatly just expect.
xpeclient showed me a skin which he uses. This was the only reason I write this to you.
As I see it is possible to customize it the right way.
This will really get you people to use this software.
UI is unfortunatly an important part.
Another UI think:
I personaly don't like the fading 'button' after clicking on some options like "Documents" or something.
Maybe this already can be turned off but I haven't found the right setting (yet)
Question:
Is it possible to show all programms the "in-view" of the programms colum like we know from Windows Vista / 7.
I really like the old flawor like with expanding options form XP but maybe others want this 'All Programms' in the left colum as they know it. (All Programms / Back switch)
So basically you want the menu to look and behave exactly like in Windows 7. That's not my goal. There are already multiple programs that do that. What's the point of another one? Also, it is not possible to achieve the exact Windows 7 look/feel AND at the same time remain as flexible and configurable. It is one or the other. You can't have both.
Just for reference, what do you propose EXACTLY to change to make the menu more "natural"? Don't cheat and look at xpclient's skin :)
As for the fading, you need "Fade speed" in the General Behavior tab. Set it to 0.
If you set "Windows Key opens" to "Start Menu in Desktop and Start Screen in Metro", then you can switch to Desktop without opening the Menu. Thanks for liking my skin. Where did you see it? Neowin most probably.
It's the core strength of Classic Shell's menu that it's a cascading menu. You can increase the value of "Hover delay" so the menu doesn't close accidentally as mouse moves.
Last edit: xpclient 2013-07-24
I thought "Start Menu in Desktop and Start Screen in Metro" also opens the menu. Can't check atm.
Basicly what I don't like in the UI is the fontsize. I think it's bigger than normal or the wrong font (sergoe or thahoma i guess is regular - I don't check that now.)
I'm not saying it should look the same as W7 i was more asking for an option but not for me.
I never liked it that i couldn't ordner folder above the applications in vista/7.
I like the cascading menu like in xp, so i like the basic function.
My prior suggestions are about the windows key functions which i guess would be easy to implement. twice tapping would be especially cool.
@xp: neowin - pm's (modern ui)
Last edit: John Doe 2012-11-05
I don't think double-tap is a good idea. That would mean that the menu must not open immediately after you press the Win key, but wait a second to check if you are going to press it again. Double-click or double-tap only work if the second click is a meaningful extension of the first - like click to select, double-click to select and execute.
Shift+Win currently has a problem that it doesn't work if you have an elevated program open. That's because the elevated program doesn't allow for other programs (like the start menu) to steal its keys. So I don't want to expand on that feature by adding a Win+Shift combination.
As of 3.6.2, you can set "Windows Key opens" to Start Menu in Desktop and Start Screen in Metro. This will also make Windows key show the desktop without opening the menu when in Metro.
I agree with the font size issue as well as other horrible looking non-standard look. Ivo has decided not to give users what they want even if they don't know themselves how to make it look the same. It looks absolutely horrible and users certainly deserve the original font size, when in every single dialog elsewhere in Windows, the size is 9, not 10. You can open the skin in elevated Resource Hacker instance and change the following values from -10 to -9:
Main_font
Submenu_separator_font
Last edit: xpclient 2012-11-05
Somehow I doubt that by changing the font size by 10% the menu will become from "absolutely horrible" to great.
I agree with the problems of twice tapping. The shift issue makes sense. unfortunatly. But I guess you get the point. sometimes i hold shift first somethimes the win key and than just tap the released one again as i think i'm going back... twice tap would be just very easy but i absolutly understand that this could interfer with normal usage.
The font and ui thing is not about 10% or reading it's more about 'this is different' users will think: 'why is this different?' 'why has this to be different?' 'can't it be the same'? it's only about habit/usage.
I currently testing the skin of xpclient. this one is pretty good.
Some other UI thing I found today - the searchbox doesn't match - the box is to big or the text is not centered and it's not italic/kursiv but last isn't importing.
Yes, it will look better by doing that one change. Combining all such efforts to make it look exact will make it great.
Making the classic start menu look and feel like the Windows 7 menu is unattainable goal. They are fundamentally different - in the way they arrange their items, the way they handle the mouse and keyboard, etc. There is just no way to reconcile both under the same program.
So no matter what I try, there will always be "but in Windows 7 the start menu does/looks ....". There is no winning that game. So I choose not to play. I choose to make a feature-rich and customizable menu that may resemble the Windows 7 menu in some key points to make it easy for people to figure it out. Matching the font or the position of the shutdown button perfectly is not part of that goal.
I personally like the larger font that goes with the larger icons and smaller font to go with the smaller icons. To me it looks more balanced. If somebody wants to create a skin that does things differently, I will gladly add a link to it on the front page for everybody to download.
As for the search box, the text is not italic because that's how the "hint" text in the system edit box works. I would have to implement my own hint text system if I want to replace the font. And then I would have to add a setting in the skin, because some people may not like the italic. So I prefer to keep it simple and simply do whatever is built into the system.
The box is as big as the width of the menu. The width of the menu is determined by the longest menu item in that column. You can limit that from the settings if it gets too wide.
I am not sure what you mean about not being centered.
Search box text is not same for localization - so it gets auto translated into all the supported languages. That should not change, it's alright. See, this has a reason to be different. But font, jumplist arrow size, width of the menu, user picture, pinned items not on top, grey submenus, huge user name font that doesn't fit in dual column when user name is slightly longer - all these have no reason to be different. Anyways, I will make a more matching skin with user picture jutting out but for that I need the shadow/transparency issue on Windows 8 fixed (which doesn't happen on Windows 7). :)
I only want that more users use this tool (w8). And i just speek for thoose people who might don't want to deal with non-default ui. You know that most users decide within the first seconds.
I only 'complain' about the search text that is not centered from top to bottom. It's slightly higher positioned.
little highlightning (background) by the search box would be cool, but i guess this is not possible.
What i also recommend is: if no icon (for apps / programs) is set (none) it should align to the left without the 'icon' space.
all only recommendations and suggestions.
Well John Doe, good news for you. Try the latest beta of Classic Shell linked from the home page. It is now an exact Windows 7 style menu.
Last edit: xpclient 2013-07-24