MS working to kill W8 Start button hacks.

Greg
2012-05-31
2012-10-29
1 2 > >> (Page 1 of 2)
  • Greg

    Greg - 2012-05-31

    Microsoft have been stripping out "legacy" Start menu code in time for the
    Windows 8 Release Preview.

    http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-working-to-kill-windows-8-start-button-
    hacks

    How will Classic Shell be able to work around this latest unnecessary
    limitation, assuming you hadn't
    already anticipated this happening, and creating a solution for the next
    version of Classic Shell ... ?

     
  • Anonymous - 2012-05-31

    The Release Preview isn't out yet so there is no reason to believe the 'rumor'
    nor a way to test anything. Why not be patient? :) It's not like Classic Shell
    is going to disappear overnight.

     
  • Greg

    Greg - 2012-05-31

    I know Classic Shell won't be going away anytime soon. I'll certainly download
    the Release Preview of Windows 8
    when it's out later today or tomorrow, install it in a VMware virtual machine,
    and try Classic Shell 3.5. I'm thinking
    the actual folders for the Start menu will have been removed, along with the
    hooks to make the folders appear
    as a Start menu that comes up on the Desktop on clicking the Start Orb.

    There's certainly plenty of bitching about it in the Neowin.net comment thread
    attached to the linked article.

     
  • Ivo Beltchev

    Ivo Beltchev - 2012-05-31

    This article is a repost of another article that just states this as a fact,
    but with no details or sources. Sounds like FUD to me. I will believe it when
    I see it :)

    That said, Classic Shell and other such tools depend on undocumented behavior.
    It is expected that such behavior will change between major versions, or
    between service packs or even minor updates. I don't believe Microsoft is
    actively breaking our software. This is not an arms-race (we find an exploit
    and they plug in the next version). It is more like catch-up (they are
    changing their undocumented behavior, and we find a workaround).

    Please try the new version when it comes out, and report any problems you are
    seeing with 3.5.0.

     
  • Greg

    Greg - 2012-05-31

    Despite what the article says, whether it's FUD or not, I've refrained from
    joining in with the bitching by those that say W8
    will be a pile of dumbed down s**t, versus the pro-Metro shills saying it'ill
    be the best OS ever and Metro is awesome!

    I've adopted a wait-and-see policy on this for now. While they may or may not
    have made Start menu restoration hacks
    such as Classic Shell a bit harder to work around the limitation, Microsoft
    could go all the way when W8 is finalised.

     
  • Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman - 2012-05-31

    I am a user of Classic Shell. I have got it on my Windows Vista,Windows 7 and
    now Windows 8 laptops. I just want to say I am very impressed with your
    software. It works great on my Windows Vista and I love the Windows XP start
    menu which I always use. And I also have Classic Explorer as well. It works
    great on Windows 7 and I have now installed it on Windows 8 CP.

    And on Windows 8 it is very much needed, where as you know you don't get the
    Windows start menu. But now I have both the Windows XP start button and start
    menu on my Windows 8 CP. But I have read on the web that Microsoft plan to
    change their source code so that start menu software that can bring back the
    start button and Windows start menu may not work in Windows 8 RP.

    I hope this is not true, as I cannot work with the Metro start menu, as it is
    just not the same as having the traditional,Windows XP or Classic start menu I
    am used to. And Classic Shell is very much needed on Windows 8 by most users
    and me. I hope that if Microsoft is silly enough to make it more difficult for
    us to enable the start button and start menu in Windows 8 RP and future
    editions.That you will find a new way to make Classic Shell work in Windows 8
    RP and the final versions. As I don't want to give up using Classic Shell on
    Windows 8 and I cannot work without my Classic Windows XP or Windows 7 start
    menu.

    Even if Microsoft make it more difficult to make start menu software work on
    Windows 8 RP and future versions.please persevere and find a solution to keep
    Classic Shell working on Windows 8. So that I and other users can carry on
    using it. Andrea Borman.

     
  • Greg

    Greg - 2012-06-01

    I can confirm the rumours were indeed FUD ... Classic Shell works on Windows 8
    Release Preview:


    Question is though ... could the so-called "legacy" Start menu code still be
    ripped out for the finalised version of Windows 8 ... ?

    For now though at least, Start menu sanity in Windows 8 prevails ... !

     
  • Ivo Beltchev

    Ivo Beltchev - 2012-06-01

    Great news! Thanks for testing.
    I'm still downloading the ISOs, but will probably have time to play with them
    only during the weekend.

    I believe the legacy code that was ripped out was for the old start menu. Of
    course it will be deleted. It is unused code.
    Classic Shell does not depend on any code from Windows. I use mostly
    documented APIs. I rely on some undocumented behaviors around the handling of
    the Win key but there is little chance for them being altered much, because
    the OS still needs to handle the Win key somehow.

    Anyway, there are stll some edge cases that need to be tested with the new
    version, particuarly with the new hot corners and the multi-monitor support
    that was introduced in the RP.

     
  • Anonymous - 2012-06-01

    Why not announce on the Facebook page that multi-monitor testers are needed?

     
  • Ivo Beltchev

    Ivo Beltchev - 2012-06-01

    It is not.

     
  • Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman - 2012-06-01

    Yes, I have just read on a Windows 8 forum and on another forum that Classic
    Shell does work on the new Windows 8 Release Preview. So whoever wrote those
    posts on the web telling us that Classic Shell and other start menu software
    would not work on Windows 8 RP,did not know what they were talking about. As
    it is simply NOT True and the information we were given is deliberately
    misleading.

    The posts on the 2 forums I have read from 2 posters who have tried Classic
    Shell on Windows 8 RP say that it IS WORKING on Windows 8 RP. So i now look
    forward to installing Windows 8 RP when i get time and installing and using
    Classic Shell,of course. Keep up the good work,Andrea Borman.

     
  • Rand

    Rand - 2012-06-02

    The hacks hacks to disable the Ribbon in Explorer still function in the RP as
    well, so it's possible MS simply hasn't removed the relevant legacy code yet.
    There are still a few changes we know their planning that haven't been
    implemented yet (Removal of Aero Glass/transparency effects etc.).

    I wouldn't be too concerned though, it wouldn't appear classic shell is too
    dependent on Win Code, and ibeltchev seems pretty confident he can make it
    work and save everyone that plans to attempt to use Win8.

     
  • Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman - 2012-06-02

    Well Randpc,I have not got round to installing Windows 8 RP but I will. I am
    still on Windows 8 CP at the moment.

    But people should get their facts right and the authors of the posts that told
    us that Microsoft stopped Classic Shell and other start menu software from
    working in Windows 8 RP.Either did not know what they were talking about, or
    were lying.

    Whoever wrote those posts should have at least installed the RP version of
    Windows 8 and tested Classic Shell and other start menu software
    themselves,before writing posts like that. And spreading misleading
    information.

    One other poster who commented on The Verge reckons that Classic Shell and
    other start menu software are using their own code to get the start button and
    start menu on Windows 8 as well as on Windows Vista and 7. So if that is the
    case,the start menu software is not effected by Microsoft's change of code.

    It could be true, as when Windows 8 CP first came out,you noticed that Classic
    Shell,the old version did not work on Windows 8 CP then. But Start Menu 7 and
    Vista start Menu still did. But then Classic Shell was updated with the new
    version we now have and are using. And that does work on Windows 8 CP and RP.
    Andrea Borman.

     
  • Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman - 2012-06-15

    I have just installed Windows 8 RP and yes,Classic Shell is working on it. The
    only thing is that it does not run automatically at start up like it did on
    previous versions of Windows. So I just click the desktop shortcut to bring up
    the start menu. Not a big problem but I would like to have automatic start up.
    But still classic Shell is working. Andrea Borman.

     
  • Greg

    Greg - 2012-06-15

    Classic Shell runs automatically at Windows 8 startup for me, on both the
    Consumer Preview and Release Preview.

     
  • Ivo Beltchev

    Ivo Beltchev - 2012-06-15

    Andrea, when you say that you have to click the desktop shortcut, do you mean
    the desktop tile in the start screen? And if so, if you click it, do you see
    the start button?

     
  • Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman - 2012-06-15

    No,when Windows 8 starts I get the start screen and then I click the desktop
    tile and get taken to my desktop. The start button menu should then be visible
    in the left hand corner, but I have to manually click the Classic Shell Icon
    shortcut I pinned to my desktop to start it. But it should run automatically
    on start up. I should not have to start it myself. But apart from that it
    works. But in all other versions of Windows 8/windows 7 and Windows Vista
    Classic shell runs automatic on start up. but not in Windows 8 RP. Yet it is
    listed as a start up program in Task schedule. Andrea Borman.

     
  • Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman - 2012-06-15

    But once i click the desktop shortcut,I then see the start button. And
    sorry,it's Task Manager not Task schedule. Andrea Borman.

     
  • Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman - 2012-06-25

    Well I have installed Windows 8 RP on my second laptop and it's the same
    thing.Classic Shell start menu does not run automatically on start up. You
    have to click the shortcut on the desktop or taskbar to start it.

    I think it could be some kind of bug in Windows 8 RP either that or this
    problem may be fixed in the next new version of Classic Shell.

    But here is a solution that works for me,you place the classic shell start
    menu settings shortcut in thetart up folder.

    To do this- copy the Classic Shell start menu settings shortcut from your
    desktop.
    Then in the Run box or Run command type" shell:startup" this opens the start
    up folder. Then paste in the shorcut in the start up folder.

    Now the Classic Shell start menu will run every time your computer starts on
    start up. It's not the perfect solution but it works or does the trick. Andrea
    Borman.

     
  • Greg

    Greg - 2012-06-25

    Strange ... it works for me OK on startup. I installed Classic Shell as
    Administrator as I usually do for most system add-ons.
    I context click (right click) the ClassicShellSetup_3_5_0.exe file, select
    Run as Administrator, and followed the prompts.

    Classic Shell starts just a few seconds after clicking the Desktop tile on the
    Start screen.

     
  • Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman - 2012-06-25

    So do I have an Administrator account on my Windows 8RP which is the only
    account on my computer. But no,unless i put the shortcut in the start up
    folder it won't run automatically at start up. Although when I look in Task
    Manager it says that the Classic Shell start menu is set to run at start up
    but it does not.Unless you put the shortcut in the start up folder.

    but don't forget Windows 8 is slower than Windows 7 and there could be several
    other programs running at start up. So maybe Classic Shell is not set on high
    priority setting. I tried changing this but it reverts back to normal priority
    settings on the next start up. But Classic Shell still works on Windows 8
    RP,so I still have my Windows XP start menu.

    I only hope Classic Shell will still work in the RTM version of Windows
    8.Andrea Borman

     
  • Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman - 2012-06-25

    But one thing you said about running the installer files ad Administator.No I
    did not do that,I did not see the need to. As i am logged into my account ad
    Administator so I thought the computer assumes I am the admin. And no I don't
    have UAC both USC and Smart Screen are both permanently disabled as they are
    on Windows 7. Andrea Borman

     
  • Ivo Beltchev

    Ivo Beltchev - 2012-06-25

    Do you automatically log in, or do you have to enter a password every time?
    Does it work if you log out and then log back in?

    I think the problem may be that the service sometimes starts too late and
    misses the "login" event.
    Try this. Go to
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\ClassicShellService
    Add a new string value called “Group”. Set it to “UIGroup”.
    Remove the alternate way you are starting Classic Shell.
    Restart and see if it works.

     
  • Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman - 2012-06-25

    No No,I don't have a password on my account and I don't have a Microsoft
    account on Windows 8 either. just an ordinary Administator account like on
    Windows 7,with no password.

    But I am not comfortable with editing the registry as it could mess up
    Windows,it's happened before. Is there no other way round it.?

    But maybe when you make a new version of Classic Shell,it will be fixed in the
    next version. But the problem although not a big one could be to do with
    Windows 8 RP. Andrea Borman.

     
  • Greg

    Greg - 2012-06-25

    Very unwise to be running as Administrator on Windows without a password.
    That's a huge security no-no right there.

     
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