Re: [Clamwin-users] Clamwin-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 5

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Joshua:

Never said or even suggested that Clamwin clients were "ignorant,
consumptive users"...do you know something I do not? You seem a bit
defensive--rather like people do with religion--which was precisely my
point.

There is lots of good open source software, and that is why I was making the
point that such software must be a quality product, also having quality
customer service. My message was that just because open source code is
generated by non-paid coders, this does not "immunize" these designers from
criticism by users--nor should they be immune to such criticism.

Just like in commercial enterprise, the designers need to say, "Yes sir, we
have a problem and I am sorry it troubled you." That is what the developers
of Linux, Firefox, and Apache do with THEIR users.

But some open source coders do not do that, do they? Rather, they tend to
say and suggest something like, "You are very rude for criticizing software
that is given to you for free, immediately demanding that it work well--you
need to show some respect!" And if you will not acknowledge that this is
true, you can be certain that many others on this list will.

My discussion was not about the desirability of open source software, but a
treatise regarding how certain open source designers respond to their users.
Some designers respond professionally, others do not.

You yourself stated of open source users, "they know that are able to work
directly with the developers of a software product". But if that is so in
the case of Clamwin, why are we even having this discussion--which was
initiated by your users?

DT

-----Original Message-----
From: cla...@li...
[mailto:cla...@li...] 
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 5:08 AM
To: cla...@li...
Subject: Clamwin-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 5

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Users and Open Source (jerry)
   2. remove me from your list (Bobbie Clark)
   3. Re: Users and Open Source (Alch)

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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:11:45 -0500
From: "jerry" <an...@ho...>
Subject: Re: [Clamwin-users] Users and Open Source
To: "ClamWin Users Discussion List"
	<cla...@li...>
Message-ID: <BLU...@ph...l>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

AND YOUR POINT IS???
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joshua Martin 
  To: ClamWin Users Discussion List 
  Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 2:09 PM
  Subject: [Clamwin-users] Users and Open Source

  David:

  I don't want this mailing list to be a soap box for either type of
software production (open source or proprietary), but I must say that I am
distasted by your assumption that my clients are ignorant, consumptive users
who care nothing about the terms by which they are "allowed" to use software
created by a proprietary source.

  In fact, I have a few business owners who are excited to learn that a
piece of software they use is open source - not necessarily because it costs
less or enables more flexible use. Rather, they know that are able to work
directly with the developers of a software product (just as we're doing
right here, right now) to fix problems, improve functionality, or expand
features.

  I don't know what kind of clients you have to work with - but I am quite
the lucky consultant here in Southwest Virgina, because my clients actually
care whether or not they are using a software product whose developers
worked just to make a buck, or rather to create a more useful, secure, and
flexible technology.

  BTW..... What about???

  Apache  (used by 50% of the Web)

  Firefox  (used by 20% users)

  FreeBSD  (used by Yahoo! and once used by Microsoft)

  PacketFilter  (used by Chinese government firewall)

  SELinux  (created by NSA)

  K Desktop Environment  (used by Lowe's Hardware)

  SUSE Linux  (used by Wal-Mart)

  Linux kernel  (used by Cisco for $ routers)

  Red Hat Enterprise Linux  (used by Google)

  OpenOffice (used by more than 150 million users and standard in 30
countries)

  Is all this just crappy code???

  -- 
  _________________________________

  Joshua S. Martin

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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 21:25:35 -0700
From: Bobbie Clark <bbn...@az...>
Subject: [Clamwin-users] remove me from your list
To: ClamWin Users Discussion List
	<cla...@li...>
Message-ID: <496...@az...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I do not want to receive all these blog messages. please remove my address.

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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:11:07 +1100
From: Alch <al...@us...>
Subject: Re: [Clamwin-users] Users and Open Source
To: ClamWin Users Discussion List
	<cla...@li...>
Message-ID: <496...@us...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Just a friendly reminder to keep this mailing list focused on issues 
related to ClamWin. Please take any other matters off this list and to a 
private discussion.

jerry wrote:
> /AND YOUR POINT IS???/
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Joshua Martin <mailto:jos...@gm...>
>     *To:* ClamWin Users Discussion List
>     <mailto:cla...@li...>
>     *Sent:* Saturday, January 03, 2009 2:09 PM
>     *Subject:* [Clamwin-users] Users and Open Source
>
>     David:
>
>     I don't want this mailing list to be a soap box for either type of
>     software production (open source or proprietary), but I must say
>     that I am distasted by your assumption that my clients are
>     ignorant, consumptive users who care nothing about the terms by
>     which they are "allowed" to use software created by a proprietary
>     source.
>
>     In fact, I have a few business owners who are excited to learn
>     that a piece of software they use is open source - not necessarily
>     because it costs less or enables more flexible use. Rather, they
>     know that are able to work directly with the developers of a
>     software product (just as we're doing right here, right now) to
>     fix problems, improve functionality, or expand features.
>
>     I don't know what kind of clients you have to work with - but I am
>     quite the lucky consultant here in Southwest Virgina, because my
>     clients actually care whether or not they are using a software
>     product whose developers worked just to make a buck, or rather to
>     create a more useful, secure, and flexible technology.
>
>     BTW..... What about???
>
>
>     Apache  (used by 50% of the Web)
>
>     Firefox  (used by 20% users)
>
>     FreeBSD  (used by Yahoo! and once used by Microsoft)
>
>     PacketFilter  (used by Chinese government firewall)
>
>     SELinux  (created by NSA)
>
>     K Desktop Environment  (used by Lowe's Hardware)
>
>     SUSE Linux  (used by Wal-Mart)
>
>     Linux kernel  (used by Cisco for $ routers)
>
>     Red Hat Enterprise Linux  (used by Google)
>
>     OpenOffice (used by more than 150 million users and standard in 30
>     countries)
>
>
>     Is all this just crappy code???
>
>     -- 
>     _________________________________
>
>     Joshua S. Martin
>
>
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>
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--
>
>
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>     _______________________________________________
>     Clamwin-users mailing list
>     Cla...@li...
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/clamwin-users
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Clamwin-users mailing list
> Cla...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/clamwin-users
>   

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End of Clamwin-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 5
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Re: [Clamwin-users] Clamwin-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 5

Antivirus software with virus scanning and virus definition updates

Re: [Clamwin-users] Clamwin-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 5