[chiPHPug-discuss] Fwd: CHIPHPUG REDACTED

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I hate how this thing doesn't reply to list by default ;)   And no I'm not
trying to goad Rich though that can be fun too ...

Anyway I only sent this to Matt originally.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Hank Marquardt <hma...@gm...>
Date: Oct 26, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] CHIPHPUG REDACTED
To: matt donohue <mm_...@ya...>

I feel your pain, though I have a couple thoughts as well.

I was around at the beginning and then largely disappeared before rejoining
the lurker crowd a year ago or so.

I think the internet has all but killed user groups of all sorts, there
simply is better/bigger/more varied information out and available through
google usually than you'll find from a loose knit association of folks bound
by geography.

When this group started, php was in the early 3.x tree and was relatively
speaking not widely adopted or understood, but here were a few of us that
had experience with it and many more that were curious so we started meeting
mostly to help new folks and answer questions.   Today putting 'php
development' in google  or perusing a shelf at Border's will leave you with
decisions about what is good information and what is better information ...
not simply trying to find information.

So yes, we have just sort of drifted along without a lot of purpose,
traffic, etc.   At the end of the day though we still are a loose knit group
of folks bound by geography and a common interest, so with little
infrastructure to support we continue to exist, though perhaps not thrive.
It is what it is.

As to your suggestions, I certainly don't want to be a wet blanket, though
in starting a new site or purpose you're always faced with 'what can I do
different or better?' and against the traction other sites already have;
facebook, ning, twitter, myspace, second life, insert your favorite here ...
I'm not sure how to answer that question; though if you have an answer, go
for it.

The "Chicago PHP Society builds web site for No Kill Animal Shelter" is an
interesting idea ... a Chicago PHP Not for Profit Assistance Center could be
an interesting 'project' or entity of itself, though smaller freelance folks
would likely see that as competition to their market and not participate,
but still an interesting concept.

Probably not much heat or light shed above, but having been around since the
beginning I at least have perspective for what that's worth.

On 10/25/07, matt donohue <mm_...@ya...> wrote:
>
> Some thoughts-
> Picture this press release:
> "Chicago PHP Society builds web site for No Kill Animal Shelter".
> Or- you can be a list that answers 3 newbie questions a year and 1 really
> bad quote request.
> Like I said- re-invent yourselves and have a purpose or die. There is no
> PHP pulse anyone on this list needs to be abreast of. I don't need any
> advice or job off this list so what am I doing? No offense but, the last
> newbie we had was and is a jag.
>
> As for volunteering- Yes, I'll build and host a site. Any members would
> need to commit to a volunteer schedule for Chicago non-profits. Not sure you
> would want me in that position as I'm extremely liberal and quite dogmatic.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Anacreo <an...@gm...>
> To: chi...@li...
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:42:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] CHIPHPUG REDACTED
>
>
> Hmm I guess I'm more the care bare spirit.  While I do nod and agree with
> much of what you say Matt.  I do think slamming someone looking for help
> as
> a bit harsh.  For me I'm not much of a meeting type either, I'm more of
> the
> go it alone and toss an idea out when I'm frustrated by a problem.  I do
> enjoy problem solving which is why I join lists like this in the first
> place.  If someone has a problem I enjoy the challenge of trying to figure
> it out, that's all I am looking for in this user group, so to each their
> own.  I agree about the website though as a community user group who am I
> to
> complain about it if I'm not going to fix it.  If you want a new site /
> majordomo try building it and propose it and see if it gets ratified.
>
> Alec
>
> On 10/25/07, matt donohue < mm_...@ya...> wrote:
> >
> > Young? No. I said I've been on the almost list since it started.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Jason Rexilius < ja...@ho...>
> > To: chi...@li...
> > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:27:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] CHIPHPUG REDACTED
> >
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> >    Forgive me, but you must be fairly young. ;-)
> >
> >    User groups never have a "purpose" or "vision" or any such thing..
> > It's like a street market.. lotsa "other peoples treasure" and the odd
> > thing that you find valuable.
> >
> >    That being said, the value I find in it is keeping a loose finger on
> > the pulse of local mindsets in relation to PHP.  That helps about as
> > much as watching CNN helps the average person, but I still find it
> useful.
> >
> >    The other purpose it serves is a place for young people with energy
> > to use it as a springboard to do interesting things with their time,
> > passion and energy.  It does sound like you are volunteering ;-)
> >
> >    It is a pool of people, although not like-minded, with at least one
> > or more common interest that you can draw from, serve or dismiss as your
> > enthusiasm dictates.
> >
> >    I organize a yearly tech event and try and keep in touch with the
> > user groups and support other people doing interesting things.  Do
> > something interesting and I'll support it.
> >
> >    As to discussion, it is a community with _widely_ varying levels of
> > expertise so its hard to have a standard.  I personally would like to
> > have more involved discussions about some advanced topics but its
> > difficult on a list.  Meetings are better places for the discussion I
> > enjoy, usually.
> >
> >    Cheers and have fun.. Maybe build a new website to help with some
> > shortcomings you see.
> >
> > -jason
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > matt donohue wrote:
> > > Preface- I know I must be wrong at least 51% of the time otherwise, I
> > would be way ahead at poker.
> > >
> > > In case anyone was put off by the snark (Arlo already vented), I
> profer
> > this rant,
> > >
> > > I sometimes find myself frustrated by the purpose of the list (and
> it's
> > lack of humor). There is hardly any dialog on the list beyond what
> framework
> > is best to use and the rare question. Is it a list of vetted
> professionals
> > or a loose collection of hacks? I know some people are on the list
> because
> > they enjoy the meetings and socializing with other like minded people
> but,
> > I've never been that interested in any meeting topics and I prefer to
> learn
> > things on my own (my being anti-social plays no part). That said- I'm
> sure I
> > pissed off the other half of the list but, I don't really care. Start a
> new
> > dialog- what is the value of the list? Because if it doesn't change and
> grow
> > it becomes irrelevant, and If the list is supposed to be some adjunct to
> > Craigslist's Computer Gigs you can color me gone. I do enjoy helping
> other
> > PHP users and believe I have good track record regarding, I just think
> the
> > list should have a higher standard, more diverse purpose and
> > some
> > >  benefits for the members.
> > >
> > > Things that bug:
> > > * The list has never had a good website since maybe the first year or
> > two when there where actual profiles on it. What are peoples skill-sets?
> > Where do they work? Outside interests? How many members are there? I'm
> sure
> > I could get all that at a meeting but, like I said, I haven't been to a
> > meeting ever in 8 plus years, and if we do want to represent a 'guild'
> as it
> > where, we should make some member data available to the public.
> > > * If the list was organized (i.e. a real website) and did represent a
> > list of vetted professionals it would serve as a go-to resource for
> > advertising agencies and other freelance opportunities. The fact that
> there
> > is no organization (and hence no respect I'm guessing), has these
> potential
> > revenue resources using other venues like craigslist and recruiters
> (uhhg).
> > The list 'could' represent a job bench, if the effort was made and some
> > minor marketing where applied. I mean- look at other professions, they
> have
> > societies that promote the members. CHIPHPUG doesn't even know who it's
> > members are?
> > > * Jobs posted to the list should meet a standard or be called out-
> > otherwise the list becomes as relevant as the most base job posted. Does
> the
> > 'list' work for $15 an hour and hack designers? I hope not. It's not
> about
> > being elitist- It's standing up for your vocation and not allowing other
> > people to trivialize your skills and what you represent. Other lists are
>
> > much more mercenary. I have no idea why this one is so inclusive.
> > > It reminds me of when my college would post $10 p/hr jobs on the job
> > board (I paid you $20K a year and you post that?). That debases
> everything
> > you represent.
> > > * A Chicago PHP using company survey would be helpful, considering
> > everyone on the list has either applied or worked at probably every PHP
> > advocating company there is. Helpful info might include:
> > > hiring status, salary, reporting supervisor, environment, opinion
> etc..
> > I could fill a small book with my knowledge. I mean, think about the
> time
> > that would save people.
> > > * There isn't a PHP job out there that doesn't require knowledge of
> PHP
> > and AJAX. So, since everyone
> > > on the list is, for the most part, beyond proficient at PHP, extending
> > the list to AJAX/Javascript concerns might invigorate it. I know, I
> > personally have way more to offer regarding JS than PHP and all of it is
>
> > practical or relevant to the group. I doubt the list is composed of PHP
> > 'backenders' and I've never had a job myself that didn't involve both UI
> and
> > and backend development.
> > > * Lastly- I know I already stated my reticence to meetings but, a
> > CHIPHPUG poker showdown I could get behind. $100 a pop- winner gets
> bragging
> > rights for a year. I'll host West loop.
> > >
> > > Hope this stirs the nest... I really would like the list to have more
> > purpose cause I know Java and C# and still prefer the crack of PHP. Just
> > wish it was represented better.
> > >
> > > Oh- and go Chicago Fire!!!
> > >
> > > Rant over,
> > > Matt
> > >
> >
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