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Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] CHIPHPUG REDACTED
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From: matt d. <mm_...@ya...> - 2007-10-26 04:33:19
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Some thoughts-=0APicture this press release:=0A"Chicago PHP Society builds =
web site for No Kill Animal Shelter".=0AOr- you can be a list that answers =
3 newbie questions a year and 1 really bad quote request.=0ALike I said- re=
-invent yourselves and have a purpose or die. There is no PHP pulse anyone =
on this list needs to be abreast of. I don't need any advice or job off thi=
s list so what am I doing? No offense but, the last newbie we had was and i=
s a jag.=0A=0AAs for volunteering- Yes, I'll build and host a site. Any mem=
bers would need to commit to a volunteer schedule for Chicago non-profits. =
Not sure you would want me in that position as I'm extremely liberal and qu=
ite dogmatic. =0A=0AMatt=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Ana=
creo <an...@gm...>=0ATo: chi...@li...=0ASent: Thursd=
ay, October 25, 2007 10:42:06 PM=0ASubject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] CHIPHPUG=
REDACTED=0A=0A=0AHmm I guess I'm more the care bare spirit. While I do no=
d and agree with=0Amuch of what you say Matt. I do think slamming someone =
looking for help as=0Aa bit harsh. For me I'm not much of a meeting type e=
ither, I'm more of the=0Ago it alone and toss an idea out when I'm frustrat=
ed by a problem. I do=0Aenjoy problem solving which is why I join lists li=
ke this in the first=0Aplace. If someone has a problem I enjoy the challen=
ge of trying to figure=0Ait out, that's all I am looking for in this user g=
roup, so to each their=0Aown. I agree about the website though as a commun=
ity user group who am I to=0Acomplain about it if I'm not going to fix it. =
If you want a new site /=0Amajordomo try building it and propose it and se=
e if it gets ratified.=0A=0AAlec=0A=0AOn 10/25/07, matt donohue <mm_donohue=
@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A>=0A> Young? No. I said I've been on the almost list s=
ince it started.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> ----- Original Message ----=0A> From: Jaso=
n Rexilius <ja...@ho...>=0A> To: chi...@li...=0A>=
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:27:21 PM=0A> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-dis=
cuss] CHIPHPUG REDACTED=0A>=0A>=0A> Matt,=0A>=0A> Forgive me, but you mu=
st be fairly young. ;-)=0A>=0A> User groups never have a "purpose" or "v=
ision" or any such thing..=0A> It's like a street market.. lotsa "other peo=
ples treasure" and the odd=0A> thing that you find valuable.=0A>=0A> Tha=
t being said, the value I find in it is keeping a loose finger on=0A> the p=
ulse of local mindsets in relation to PHP. That helps about as=0A> much as=
watching CNN helps the average person, but I still find it useful.=0A>=0A>=
The other purpose it serves is a place for young people with energy=0A>=
to use it as a springboard to do interesting things with their time,=0A> p=
assion and energy. It does sound like you are volunteering ;-)=0A>=0A> =
It is a pool of people, although not like-minded, with at least one=0A> or =
more common interest that you can draw from, serve or dismiss as your=0A> e=
nthusiasm dictates.=0A>=0A> I organize a yearly tech event and try and k=
eep in touch with the=0A> user groups and support other people doing intere=
sting things. Do=0A> something interesting and I'll support it.=0A>=0A> =
As to discussion, it is a community with _widely_ varying levels of=0A> ex=
pertise so its hard to have a standard. I personally would like to=0A> hav=
e more involved discussions about some advanced topics but its=0A> difficul=
t on a list. Meetings are better places for the discussion I=0A> enjoy, us=
ually.=0A>=0A> Cheers and have fun.. Maybe build a new website to help w=
ith some=0A> shortcomings you see.=0A>=0A> -jason=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> matt =
donohue wrote:=0A> > Preface- I know I must be wrong at least 51% of the ti=
me otherwise, I=0A> would be way ahead at poker.=0A> >=0A> > In case anyone=
was put off by the snark (Arlo already vented), I profer=0A> this rant,=0A=
> >=0A> > I sometimes find myself frustrated by the purpose of the list (an=
d it's=0A> lack of humor). There is hardly any dialog on the list beyond wh=
at framework=0A> is best to use and the rare question. Is it a list of vett=
ed professionals=0A> or a loose collection of hacks? I know some people are=
on the list because=0A> they enjoy the meetings and socializing with other=
like minded people but,=0A> I've never been that interested in any meeting=
topics and I prefer to learn=0A> things on my own (my being anti-social pl=
ays no part). That said- I'm sure I=0A> pissed off the other half of the li=
st but, I don't really care. Start a new=0A> dialog- what is the value of t=
he list? Because if it doesn't change and grow=0A> it becomes irrelevant, a=
nd If the list is supposed to be some adjunct to=0A> Craigslist's Computer =
Gigs you can color me gone. I do enjoy helping other=0A> PHP users and beli=
eve I have good track record regarding, I just think the=0A> list should ha=
ve a higher standard, more diverse purpose and=0A> some=0A> > benefits for=
the members.=0A> >=0A> > Things that bug:=0A> > * The list has never had a=
good website since maybe the first year or=0A> two when there where actual=
profiles on it. What are peoples skill-sets?=0A> Where do they work? Outsi=
de interests? How many members are there? I'm sure=0A> I could get all that=
at a meeting but, like I said, I haven't been to a=0A> meeting ever in 8 p=
lus years, and if we do want to represent a 'guild' as it=0A> where, we sho=
uld make some member data available to the public.=0A> > * If the list was =
organized (i.e. a real website) and did represent a=0A> list of vetted prof=
essionals it would serve as a go-to resource for=0A> advertising agencies a=
nd other freelance opportunities. The fact that there=0A> is no organizatio=
n (and hence no respect I'm guessing), has these potential=0A> revenue reso=
urces using other venues like craigslist and recruiters (uhhg).=0A> The lis=
t 'could' represent a job bench, if the effort was made and some=0A> minor =
marketing where applied. I mean- look at other professions, they have=0A> s=
ocieties that promote the members. CHIPHPUG doesn't even know who it's=0A> =
members are?=0A> > * Jobs posted to the list should meet a standard or be c=
alled out-=0A> otherwise the list becomes as relevant as the most base job =
posted. Does the=0A> 'list' work for $15 an hour and hack designers? I hope=
not. It's not about=0A> being elitist- It's standing up for your vocation =
and not allowing other=0A> people to trivialize your skills and what you re=
present. Other lists are=0A> much more mercenary. I have no idea why this o=
ne is so inclusive.=0A> > It reminds me of when my college would post $10 p=
/hr jobs on the job=0A> board (I paid you $20K a year and you post that?). =
That debases everything=0A> you represent.=0A> > * A Chicago PHP using comp=
any survey would be helpful, considering=0A> everyone on the list has eithe=
r applied or worked at probably every PHP=0A> advocating company there is. =
Helpful info might include:=0A> > hiring status, salary, reporting supervis=
or, environment, opinion etc..=0A> I could fill a small book with my knowle=
dge. I mean, think about the time=0A> that would save people.=0A> > * There=
isn't a PHP job out there that doesn't require knowledge of PHP=0A> and AJ=
AX. So, since everyone=0A> > on the list is, for the most part, beyond prof=
icient at PHP, extending=0A> the list to AJAX/Javascript concerns might inv=
igorate it. I know, I=0A> personally have way more to offer regarding JS th=
an PHP and all of it is=0A> practical or relevant to the group. I doubt the=
list is composed of PHP=0A> 'backenders' and I've never had a job myself t=
hat didn't involve both UI and=0A> and backend development.=0A> > * Lastly-=
I know I already stated my reticence to meetings but, a=0A> CHIPHPUG poker=
showdown I could get behind. $100 a pop- winner gets bragging=0A> rights f=
or a year. I'll host West loop.=0A> >=0A> > Hope this stirs the nest... I r=
eally would like the list to have more=0A> purpose cause I know Java and C#=
and still prefer the crack of PHP. Just=0A> wish it was represented better=
.=0A> >=0A> > Oh- and go Chicago Fire!!!=0A> >=0A> > Rant over,=0A> > Matt=
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