Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] CHIPHPUG REDACTED

[matt d. <mm_...@ya...>]

Young? No. I said I've been on the almost list since it started.=0A=0A=0A=
=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...=
>=0ATo: chi...@li...=0ASent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:=
27:21 PM=0ASubject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] CHIPHPUG REDACTED=0A=0A=0AMatt,=
=0A=0A   Forgive me, but you must be fairly young. ;-)=0A=0A   User groups =
never have a "purpose" or "vision" or any such thing.. =0AIt's like a stree=
t market.. lotsa "other peoples treasure" and the odd =0Athing that you fin=
d valuable.=0A=0A   That being said, the value I find in it is keeping a lo=
ose finger on =0Athe pulse of local mindsets in relation to PHP.  That help=
s about as =0Amuch as watching CNN helps the average person, but I still fi=
nd it useful.=0A=0A   The other purpose it serves is a place for young peop=
le with energy =0Ato use it as a springboard to do interesting things with =
their time, =0Apassion and energy.  It does sound like you are volunteering=
 ;-)=0A=0A   It is a pool of people, although not like-minded, with at leas=
t one =0Aor more common interest that you can draw from, serve or dismiss a=
s your =0Aenthusiasm dictates.=0A=0A   I organize a yearly tech event and t=
ry and keep in touch with the =0Auser groups and support other people doing=
 interesting things.  Do =0Asomething interesting and I'll support it.=0A=
=0A   As to discussion, it is a community with _widely_ varying levels of =
=0Aexpertise so its hard to have a standard.  I personally would like to =
=0Ahave more involved discussions about some advanced topics but its =0Adif=
ficult on a list.  Meetings are better places for the discussion I =0Aenjoy=
, usually.=0A=0A   Cheers and have fun.. Maybe build a new website to help =
with some =0Ashortcomings you see.=0A=0A-jason=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Amatt donohue w=
rote:=0A> Preface- I know I must be wrong at least 51% of the time otherwis=
e, I would be way ahead at poker.=0A> =0A> In case anyone was put off by th=
e snark (Arlo already vented), I profer this rant,=0A>  =0A> I sometimes fi=
nd myself frustrated by the purpose of the list (and it's lack of humor). T=
here is hardly any dialog on the list beyond what framework is best to use =
and the rare question. Is it a list of vetted professionals or a loose coll=
ection of hacks? I know some people are on the list because they enjoy the =
meetings and socializing with other like minded people but, I've never been=
 that interested in any meeting topics and I prefer to learn things on my o=
wn (my being anti-social plays no part). That said- I'm sure I pissed off t=
he other half of the list but, I don't really care. Start a new dialog- wha=
t is the value of the list? Because if it doesn't change and grow it become=
s irrelevant, and If the list is supposed to be some adjunct to Craigslist'=
s Computer Gigs you can color me gone. I do enjoy helping other PHP users a=
nd believe I have good track record regarding, I just think the list should=
 have a higher standard, more diverse purpose and
 some=0A>  benefits for the members.=0A>  =0A> Things that bug:=0A> * The l=
ist has never had a good website since maybe the first year or two when the=
re where actual profiles on it. What are peoples skill-sets? Where do they =
work? Outside interests? How many members are there? I'm sure I could get a=
ll that at a meeting but, like I said, I haven't been to a meeting ever in =
8 plus years, and if we do want to represent a 'guild' as it where, we shou=
ld make some member data available to the public. =0A> * If the list was or=
ganized (i.e. a real website) and did represent a list of vetted profession=
als it would serve as a go-to resource for advertising agencies and other f=
reelance opportunities. The fact that there is no organization (and hence n=
o respect I'm guessing), has these potential revenue resources using other =
venues like craigslist and recruiters (uhhg). The list 'could' represent a =
job bench, if the effort was made and some minor marketing where applied. I=
 mean- look at other professions, they have societies that promote the memb=
ers. CHIPHPUG doesn't even know who it's members are? =0A> * Jobs posted to=
 the list should meet a standard or be called out- otherwise the list becom=
es as relevant as the most base job posted. Does the 'list' work for $15 an=
 hour and hack designers? I hope not. It's not about being elitist- It's st=
anding up for your vocation and not allowing other people to trivialize you=
r skills and what you represent. Other lists are much more mercenary. I hav=
e no idea why this one is so inclusive.=0A> It reminds me of when my colleg=
e would post $10 p/hr jobs on the job board (I paid you $20K a year and you=
 post that?). That debases everything you represent.=0A> * A Chicago PHP us=
ing company survey would be helpful, considering everyone on the list has e=
ither applied or worked at probably every PHP advocating company there is. =
Helpful info might include:=0A> hiring status, salary, reporting supervisor=
, environment, opinion etc.. I could fill a small book with my knowledge. I=
 mean, think about the time that would save people. =0A> * There isn't a PH=
P job out there that doesn't require knowledge of PHP and AJAX. So, since e=
veryone=0A> on the list is, for the most part, beyond proficient at PHP, ex=
tending the list to AJAX/Javascript concerns might invigorate it. I know, I=
 personally have way more to offer regarding JS than PHP and all of it is p=
ractical or relevant to the group. I doubt the list is composed of PHP 'bac=
kenders' and I've never had a job myself that didn't involve both UI and an=
d backend development.=0A> * Lastly- I know I already stated my reticence t=
o meetings but, a CHIPHPUG poker showdown I could get behind. $100 a pop- w=
inner gets bragging rights for a year. I'll host West loop.=0A>  =0A> Hope =
this stirs the nest... I really would like the list to have more purpose ca=
use I know Java and C# and still prefer the crack of PHP. Just wish it was =
represented better.=0A> =0A> Oh- and go Chicago Fire!!!=0A>  =0A> Rant over=
,=0A> Matt=0A> ------------------------------------------------------------=
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