Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] good article

[Nola S. <mrn...@gm...>]

If you want to compare stuff, compare CakePHP to Rails.

Comparing php to rails is stupid.  Of course you can do "anything you want"
in php, because its not a framework. Rails is a framework which has
predefined decisions and configuration, making it more limiting to a
programmer who doesn't want to follow those conventions.



On 10/1/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote:
>
> Actually, there is a small grain of truth to that which the article
> suggests, and that is RoR is a framework which has a proscribed way of
> doing things and has a set view of the world.  Breaking out of this is
> not easy.  This observation on the Windows.NET vs. Unix/PHP comparison
> was made on this list just a week ago, which is part of why I sent this
> article along.
>
> Its not a great comparison to make as RoR is a framework and PHP is a
> language.  It would be more valid to compare RoR with Cake.
>
> What I will say is that Frameworks are generally the next step further
> than the Coldfusion view of the world, in that they make easy or
> moderately difficult things easy, and complicated or hard things
> impossible.  Its further along than Coldfusion in that analogy as it
> does make things that are moderately difficult or repetitive easy, which
> is a win for a lot of basic apps.
>
> I think what most people are finding is that, growth beyond rapid
> prototype or migration of something that is already large and
> complicated from a language-based custom solution to a proscribed
> framework is hard.
>
> When you really get going with a complicated or scale-intensive app, you
> will find that maturity of the platform really matters and that a lot of
> frameworks dont have the years under their belt that a language like PHP
> does.
>
> All that being said, it would be insane to say that there aren't a lot
> (and perhaps majority) of use cases where a framework or proscribed
> approach isn't a big win.  The large scale, complicated apps are
> actually the edge cases and not the norm.
>
>
>
>
> Nola Stowe wrote:
> >> Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP is UNIX.  Both get the job done one is
> > completely in your control.
> >
> > Thats absurd.
> >
> > The point of the article was that this guy, through learning another
> > language/framework he improved his php.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/30/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote:
> >> Jason,
> >>   Thanks for sharing that article.  I'd have to say that after playing
> >> with
> >> Ruby on Rails and being very excited about it, I dropped it like a dead
> >> fish.  I kind of agree with the author.  I don't think PHP is a
> language
> >> that deserves to be dropped yet.  I do think it has enough power to
> >> accomplish almost any task you throw at it, and for the good
> programmers
> >> out
> >> there you can get very clean and maintainable code.  The comments on
> the
> >> site are really silly and disregard business realities for simple bias.
> >> I've talked to so many ex-Ruby on Rails users and they've all dropped
> it
> >> for
> >> one reason or another and they are usually reasons I didn't even think
> of.
> >>
> >>   Any new programming language be it Perl, Java, or PHP should smack
> with,
> >> "Geez I couldn't even do this before".  I dropped Perl as soon as I
> >> started
> >> with PHP because it was better in so many respects as a language.  And
> >> when
> >> I started coding in Java I thought wow maybe I should have started out
> as
> >> a
> >> C programmer so I could be a Java programmer.  And that's another
> thing, I
> >> never got into C because there weren't real world business problems
> that I
> >> couldn't accomplish in Perl (there still aren't).
> >>
> >>   I'm not saying Ruby on Rails isn't a good skill but there were quite
> a
> >> few
> >> posts in the article who remind me why I'm a UNIX vs a Windows
> person.  I
> >> have the skills already to accomplish in UNIX because it's taught me to
> >> understand how everything works underneath.  Ruby on Rails is Windows,
> PHP
> >> is UNIX.  Both get the job done one is completely in your control.
> >>
> >> Alec
> >>
> >> On 9/30/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote:
> >>> Mostly common sense, particularly the "PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ARE LIKE
> >>> GIRLFRIENDS: THE NEW ONE IS BETTER BECAUSE *YOU* ARE BETTER"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
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> >
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