Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] good article

[Jason R. <ja...@ho...>]

Actually, there is a small grain of truth to that which the article 
suggests, and that is RoR is a framework which has a proscribed way of 
doing things and has a set view of the world.  Breaking out of this is 
not easy.  This observation on the Windows.NET vs. Unix/PHP comparison 
was made on this list just a week ago, which is part of why I sent this 
article along.

Its not a great comparison to make as RoR is a framework and PHP is a 
language.  It would be more valid to compare RoR with Cake.

What I will say is that Frameworks are generally the next step further 
than the Coldfusion view of the world, in that they make easy or 
moderately difficult things easy, and complicated or hard things 
impossible.  Its further along than Coldfusion in that analogy as it 
does make things that are moderately difficult or repetitive easy, which 
is a win for a lot of basic apps.

I think what most people are finding is that, growth beyond rapid 
prototype or migration of something that is already large and 
complicated from a language-based custom solution to a proscribed 
framework is hard.

When you really get going with a complicated or scale-intensive app, you 
will find that maturity of the platform really matters and that a lot of 
frameworks dont have the years under their belt that a language like PHP 
does.

All that being said, it would be insane to say that there aren't a lot 
(and perhaps majority) of use cases where a framework or proscribed 
approach isn't a big win.  The large scale, complicated apps are 
actually the edge cases and not the norm.




Nola Stowe wrote:
>> Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP is UNIX.  Both get the job done one is
> completely in your control.
> 
> Thats absurd.
> 
> The point of the article was that this guy, through learning another
> language/framework he improved his php.
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/30/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote:
>> Jason,
>>   Thanks for sharing that article.  I'd have to say that after playing
>> with
>> Ruby on Rails and being very excited about it, I dropped it like a dead
>> fish.  I kind of agree with the author.  I don't think PHP is a language
>> that deserves to be dropped yet.  I do think it has enough power to
>> accomplish almost any task you throw at it, and for the good programmers
>> out
>> there you can get very clean and maintainable code.  The comments on the
>> site are really silly and disregard business realities for simple bias.
>> I've talked to so many ex-Ruby on Rails users and they've all dropped it
>> for
>> one reason or another and they are usually reasons I didn't even think of.
>>
>>   Any new programming language be it Perl, Java, or PHP should smack with,
>> "Geez I couldn't even do this before".  I dropped Perl as soon as I
>> started
>> with PHP because it was better in so many respects as a language.  And
>> when
>> I started coding in Java I thought wow maybe I should have started out as
>> a
>> C programmer so I could be a Java programmer.  And that's another thing, I
>> never got into C because there weren't real world business problems that I
>> couldn't accomplish in Perl (there still aren't).
>>
>>   I'm not saying Ruby on Rails isn't a good skill but there were quite a
>> few
>> posts in the article who remind me why I'm a UNIX vs a Windows person.  I
>> have the skills already to accomplish in UNIX because it's taught me to
>> understand how everything works underneath.  Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP
>> is UNIX.  Both get the job done one is completely in your control.
>>
>> Alec
>>
>> On 9/30/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote:
>>> Mostly common sense, particularly the "PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ARE LIKE
>>> GIRLFRIENDS: THE NEW ONE IS BETTER BECAUSE *YOU* ARE BETTER"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> 
> 
>