Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] chiPHPug-discuss Digest, Vol 13, Issue 12

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To phpWalter: It takes a man with a big heart to apologize, I gotta hand yo=
u that. To Richard: Thanks.I think Ruby on Rails is a good thing for PHP. R=
OR hasten's the process of a PHP Flagship Framework.  I work with so many h=
ard-to maintain legacy projects (poorly implemented MVC, sql queries found =
in view template pages, poorly formed sql queries), that I found myself chu=
ckling at http://www.railsenvy.com/ .  So many PHP based project platforms =
(phpBB, creLoaded, wordPress..) badly need upgrades and I believe PHP 5+ OO=
P and a PHP Flagship Framework would help. phpWalter, installing ROR on my =
dedicated server is on my iGoogle To-Do-List. I am hoping I wont accidental=
ly waste one terabyte of bandwidth like I did with my other pet project <gr=
in>. > From: chi...@li...> Subject: chiPH=
Pug-discuss Digest, Vol 13, Issue 12> To: chi...@li...urceforg=
e.net> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:50:44 -0700> > Send chiPHPug-discuss maili=
ng list submissions to> 	chi...@li...> > To subsc=
ribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> 	https://lists.sourcefor=
ge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> or, via email, send a message with =
subject or body 'help' to> 	chi...@li...>=
 > You can reach the person managing the list at> 	chiphpug-discuss-owner@l=
ists.sourceforge.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it =
is more specific> than "Re: Contents of chiPHPug-discuss digest..."> > > To=
day's Topics:> >    1. Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) (Anacreo)>   =
 2. Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) (Keith Casey)>    3. Rails was [=
 Re: PHP programmer opening	(phpWalter) ] (Nola Stowe)>    4.  PHP programm=
er opening (phpWalter) (Hank Marquardt)>    5. Re: PHP programmer opening (=
phpWalter) (Jason Rexilius)>    6. Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) (=
Richard Lynch)>    7. Re: Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter=
) ]>       (Richard Lynch)> > > -------------------------------------------=
---------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:35:21 =
-0500> From: Anacreo <an...@gm...>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] P=
HP programmer opening (phpWalter)> To: chi...@li...urceforge.n=
et> Message-ID:> 	<69c...@ma...ail.c=
om>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed> > Reg=
arding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on> Rails...=
  I can't believe I'm going to start learning another language...> Has anyo=
ne endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the Rails> framewo=
rk?> > On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote:> >> > I must apol=
ogize to the group, and to Jennifer.> >> > I should not have "ranted' like =
that. It was out of place.> >> > This is not the venue to share my frustrat=
ion at the state of affairs of> > the economy and the development community=
 at large.> >> > Walter> >> > ---------------------------------------------=
----------------------------> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Expre=
ss> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > =
control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > http://s=
ourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > ___________________________________________=
____> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > chi...@li...urceforge=
.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >> >=
 > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:=
44:59 -0400> From: "Keith Casey" <mai...@ca...>> Subject:=
 Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP programmer opening (phpWalter)> To: phpWalter <=
php...@to...>> Cc: chi...@li...> Message-I=
D:> 	<fd2...@ma...>> Content=
-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed> > On 5/23/07, php=
Walter <php...@to...> wrote:> > I should not have "ranted' like that=
. It was out of place.> > This is not the venue to share my frustration at =
the state of affairs of> > the economy and the development community at lar=
ge.> > The odd thing is that here on the DC PHP list - I'm the lead mod - w=
e> had a similar explosion last week.  It started from a single recruiter> =
posting a silly ad, a few people ranted, and it grew from there.> > I think=
 we - the community as a whole - is in this position where> those of us who=
 went through the 2000-2003 timeframe trying to> get/keep a job are a bit b=
urned, some of the companies looking to hire> are a bit clueless, and recru=
iters step in the middle.  Some of them> are clueless, some of them aren't =
and just have clueless clients...> but it's not good for anyone involved.> =
> My 0.02,> kc> > -- > D. Keith Casey Jr.> CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC> http://=
CaseySoftware.com> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date=
: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:50:25 -0500> From: "Nola Stowe" <mrn...@gm...=
m>> Subject: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening> 	(p=
hpWalter) ]> To: Anacreo <an...@gm...>> Cc: chi...@li...=
urceforge.net> Message-ID:> 	<43e95380705231550n76b169d1g474c54595d748e84@m=
ail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dfl=
owed> > what a subject change!> > I love ruby .... and rails is a great fra=
mework. It all depends on> your need. PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place.=
.. Its is my new goal> in life to end language hate. People who spew blanke=
t statments like> "XX language sucks!" ... of which I have been guilty to s=
ome extent> over the past ... i've learned there are purposes for language =
and in> some cases, they can work together :)  I wrote some posts about php=
> and rails getting along last summer at CodeSnipers.> > On 5/23/07, Anacre=
o <an...@gm...> wrote:> > Regarding that... boy am I impressed with t=
he video tours of Ruby on> > Rails...  I can't believe I'm going to start l=
earning another language...> > Has anyone endeavored down that road and hav=
e any thoughts about the Rails> > framework?> >> > On 5/23/07, phpWalter <p=
hpW...@to...> wrote:> > >> > > I must apologize to the group, and to =
Jennifer.> > >> > > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of pla=
ce.> > >> > > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of=
 affairs of> > > the economy and the development community at large.> > >> =
> > Walter> > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> > >=
 Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > > con=
trol of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > > http://so=
urceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > > __________________________________________=
_____> > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > > chi...@li...urce=
forge.net> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discus=
s> > >> > -----------------------------------------------------------------=
--------> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> > Download DB2 E=
xpress C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > control of your XML.=
 No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > http://sourceforge.net/power=
bar/db2/> > _______________________________________________> > chiPHPug-dis=
cuss mailing list> > chi...@li...> > https://list=
s.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >> > > -- > http://rubyg=
eek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl> http://DevChix.com - boys =
can't have all the fun> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4>=
 Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:50:33 -0500> From: "Hank Marquardt" <hmarquardt@=
gmail.com>> Subject: [chiPHPug-discuss]  PHP programmer opening (phpWalter)=
> To: chi...@li...> Message-ID:> 	<b27f504c070523=
155...@ma...>> Content-Type: text/plain; c=
harset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed> > I Love Rails ... done several produ=
ction jobs at this point and all I can> say is that if you like CakePHP,  y=
ou'll simply be blown away by Rails.   I> still code php as needed and at m=
y regular gig, but given a choice at this> point I'll do Rails any day.> > =
There are a couple downsides ... the execution model isn't multi-threaded s=
o> your headed back to CGI land basically.   There are some very nice> depl=
oyment scenarios for Rails but none of them are as easy as copying some> fi=
les to an apache server running mod_php and have it just work.> > Try it, y=
ou'll like it, but you may be spoiled.> > On 5/23/07, Anacreo <anacreo@gmai=
l.com> wrote:> >> > Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tou=
rs of Ruby on> > Rails...  I can't believe I'm going to start learning anot=
her language...> > Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any though=
ts about the Rails> > framework?> >> > On 5/23/07, phpWalter <phpWalter@tor=
res.ws> wrote:> > >> > > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer.> >=
 >> > > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place.> > >> > =
> This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of affairs of>=
 > > the economy and the development community at large.> > >> > > Walter> =
> >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------=
----------> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> > > Download=
 DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > > control of y=
our XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > > http://sourceforge=
.net/powerbar/db2/> > > _______________________________________________> > =
> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > > chi...@li...=
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> > >> >=
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------->=
 > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> > Download DB2 Express C =
- the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > control of your XML. No limit=
s. Just data. Click to get it now.> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/>=
 > _______________________________________________> > chiPHPug-discuss mail=
ing list> > chi...@li...> > https://lists.sourcef=
orge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >> > > --------------------------=
----> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:05:29 -0500> From: Jason Rexi=
lius <ja...@ho...>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP programmer=
 opening (phpWalter)> To: chi...@li...> Message-I=
D: <465...@ho...>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DI=
SO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed> > I dont think the rant was overboard, but I do=
 hope Jennifer wasn't offended.> > I personally think the rate is low and a=
m also a little tired of the > midwest penchant for trying to low ball on P=
HP because its not an > "enterprise" language.  In the Bay Area the dollar =
rate may be low for a > position and that means they're looking for college=
 kid or newbie who > can jell with a team or some such.> > All that being s=
aid, peoples points about environment making up for the > difference can be=
 valid.  Also, even if they are a "meta" search engine, > its still good on=
 the resume as they do push a lot of numbers.> > > > phpWalter wrote:> > I =
must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer.> > > > I should not have "ran=
ted' like that. It was out of place.> > > > This is not the venue to share =
my frustration at the state of affairs of> > the economy and the developmen=
t community at large.> > > > Walter> > > > --------------------------------=
-----------------------------------------> > This SF.net email is sponsored=
 by DB2 Express> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express=
 and take> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now=
.> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > ______________________________=
_________________> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > chiPHPug-discuss@list=
s.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-=
discuss> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Thu, 24 =
May 2007 12:47:10 -0500 (CDT)> From: "Richard Lynch" <ce...@l-...>> Subje=
ct: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP programmer opening (phpWalter)> To: "Keith C=
asey" <mai...@ca...>> Cc: chi...@li...urcefo=
rge.net, phpWalter> 	<php...@to...>> Message-ID: <41512.216.230.84.6=
7.1...@ww...>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=3Dis=
o-8859-1> > On Wed, May 23, 2007 5:44 pm, Keith Casey wrote:> > On 5/23/07,=
 phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote:> >> I should not have "ranted' like=
 that. It was out of place.> >> This is not the venue to share my frustrati=
on at the state of> >> affairs of> >> the economy and the development commu=
nity at large.> >> > The odd thing is that here on the DC PHP list - I'm th=
e lead mod - we> > had a similar explosion last week.  It started from a si=
ngle recruiter> > posting a silly ad, a few people ranted, and it grew from=
 there.> >> > I think we - the community as a whole - is in this position w=
here> > those of us who went through the 2000-2003 timeframe trying to> > g=
et/keep a job are a bit burned, some of the companies looking to hire> > ar=
e a bit clueless, and recruiters step in the middle.  Some of them> > are c=
lueless, some of them aren't and just have clueless clients...> > but it's =
not good for anyone involved.> > I personally have given up on Recruiters, =
for my own personal purposes.> > I have no objection to posting their Job O=
ffers, but I'm not likely to> ever work with one again...> > I've never had=
 a good experience with a recruiter, personally, in my> half-dozen or so in=
teractions.> > I have no doubt that somewhere out there is a good one, but =
I'm not> willing to spend any more time trying to figure out the good from =
the> bad, when they all sound good at first.> > As far as pricing and the d=
ot-boom, dot-bomb, and dot-boom 2.0 goes,> I'd have to say that prices are =
going up steadily at this point, and> certainly there seems to be a lot mor=
e work.> > I daresay it's even more SENSIBLE work available than in the hey=
day of> dot-boom -- Though the ridiculous no-chance-of-long-term-success gl=
ut> of the dot-boom added in changes that. But I'd take less work with> bet=
ter chances of success over the IPO VC zero to sixty to zero glut> any day.=
> > -- > Some people have a "gift" link here.> Know what I want?> I want yo=
u to buy a CD from some indie artist.> http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch>=
 Yeah, I get a buck. So?> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message=
: 7> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:50:37 -0500 (CDT)> From: "Richard Lynch" <ce=
o...@l-...>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programme=
r opening> 	(phpWalter) ]> To: "Nola Stowe" <mrn...@gm...>> Cc: ch=
iph...@li..., Anacreo> 	<an...@gm...>> Messag=
e-ID: <415...@ww...>> Content-Type=
: text/plain;charset=3Diso-8859-1> > I dunno...> > I mean, okay, Ruby/Rails=
, Python, Perl are all great and have their> place even if they're not for =
me.> > But you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that ASP and VB don'=
t> suck, by any objective measure. :-)> > To be fair, AppleScript also suck=
s, mainly because there are about a> hundred ways you COULD express anythin=
g, but only 5 of them work, and> with no rationale behind the 1-in-20 I cou=
ld ever discern...  I found> myself more frustrated by its English-like syn=
tax and loosely-defined> documentation than helped...  But maybe that's jus=
t me.> > COBOL pretty much sucks too, come to think of it...> > On Wed, May=
 23, 2007 5:50 pm, Nola Stowe wrote:> > what a subject change!> >> > I love=
 ruby .... and rails is a great framework. It all depends on> > your need. =
PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place... Its is my new goal> > in life to en=
d language hate. People who spew blanket statments like> > "XX language suc=
ks!" ... of which I have been guilty to some extent> > over the past ... i'=
ve learned there are purposes for language and in> > some cases, they can w=
ork together :)  I wrote some posts about php> > and rails getting along la=
st summer at CodeSnipers.> >> > On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wro=
te:> >> Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby o=
n> >> Rails...  I can't believe I'm going to start learning another> >> lan=
guage...> >> Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts abo=
ut the> >> Rails> >> framework?> >>> >> On 5/23/07, phpWalter <phpWalter@to=
rres.ws> wrote:> >> >> >> > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer.=
> >> >> >> > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place.> >>=
 >> >> > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of> >> =
affairs of> >> > the economy and the development community at large.> >> >>=
 >> > Walter> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------> >> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express=
> >> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> >=
> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> >> > h=
ttp://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> >> > _________________________________=
______________> >> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> >> > chiPHPug-discuss@l=
ists.sourceforge.net> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chi=
phpug-discuss> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------=
----------------------> >> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> >=
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> >> con=
trol of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> >> http://sou=
rceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> >> ____________________________________________=
___> >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> >> chi...@li...urceforg=
e.net> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >>=
> >> >> > --> > http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl=
> > http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun> >> > ----------------=
---------------------------------------------------------> > This SF.net em=
ail is sponsored by DB2 Express> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE versio=
n of DB2 express and take> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Cli=
ck to get it now.> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > ______________=
_________________________________> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > chiPH=
Pug...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/li=
stinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >> > > -- > Some people have a "gift" link here.> =
Know what I want?> I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist.> http://c=
dbaby.com/browse/from/lynch> Yeah, I get a buck. So?> > > > > -------------=
-----------------> > ------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> Downloa=
d DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> control of your=
 XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> http://sourceforge.net/po=
werbar/db2/> > ------------------------------> > __________________________=
_____________________> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> chiPHPug-discuss@list=
s.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-di=
scuss> > > End of chiPHPug-discuss Digest, Vol 13, Issue 12> **************=
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