Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Data Models

[Jason R. <ja...@ho...>]

Not sure about all of that.  I know of a few people who mostly lurk on 
the list and respond to a few things that use PHP in large production 
environments.

I must say a little mea culpa for seeing a worthwhile question and not 
taking the time to respond.  That being said I dont think the list is 
about frameworks for intranet sites.

Alec's system is pretty ugly in certain respects but I can see cases 
where it would work well.  I dont think its a great general solution but 
I dont think he was pitching it that way.

As to the original question I looked at the various ORM's out there 
(which is similar to the path you started down) and, yes, ended up 
writing my own because I wanted to abstract away data persistence not 
SQL statements, meaning that at my data persistence layer consisted of 
at the very least file, MySQL, Lucene and specialized mem-based dbs and 
I wanted a common interface.  Maybe in the future it would also have 
CouchDB, Casandra Mongo or some other models in there as well.

I did look at:
Doctrine
Propel
CoughPHP

and a few others.

CoughPHP seemed the best for what I wanted but it was still tied to a 
SQL database.

I will share a disagreement I have with my friend Harper and that is on 
the subject of JOINs.. He says no joins at all (and thats how Threadless 
runs) while I say joins are like memory allocation, there are times when 
a smart developer needs them and can make good use of them, but rarely 
and with caution.  We both fall on the side of less JOINs the better.

A model that makes it hard to do JOINs is not a bad thing.  It will make 
your developers avoid them.  So I wouldn't add complexity to your 
interface to enable arbitrary JOINs, I would instead add an escape hatch 
in your interface where you can override or extend specific instances 
easily for the _few_ cases where JOINs are truly good.

I may be open-sourcing some of the components I've developed over the 
years and I'd be happy to give a talk on it at the next meeting.. 
whenever that is?..






Anacreo wrote:
> Yeah I don't have time for this...  I've received similar poo poo
> responses from this group on similar type discussions.
> 
> I'll tell you I'm a performance EXPERT and have been designing large
> scale systems for over 15 years.
> 
> The general arguments have always been that the approach is too simple
> or too not what you guys are doing.  Try working on a large scale and
> you'll realize ruby on rails and PHP with training wheels isn't quite
> the only answer.
> 
> As for arbitrary numbers its not so arbitrary your code should meet
> your demands.  When I signed up I didn't realize this group was PHP
> for pea-pod size projects with a pea-pod brained Arlo.
> 
> Alec
> 
> On 4/20/10, matt donohue <mm_...@ya...> wrote:
>> I'm resisting the urge to respond to this... or the 3000 columns.
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Steve Gadlin <sg...@wc...>
>> To: Chicago PHP User Group <chi...@li...>
>> Sent: Tue, April 20, 2010 4:40:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Data Models
>>
>> I'm a big fan of one table design.  When I need a second table, I often
>> create an entirely separate database for it, just to keep things separate.
>> I don't like it when my tables "touch."  Viruses spread easier when they do.
>>
>> Hi Arlo.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> On 4/20/10 4:37 PM, "Arlo Leach" <ar...@ar...> wrote:
>>
>>>> I wasn't being sarcastic at all Arlo I was giving you a design pattern
>>>> for
>>>> working with very large customizeable and extensible data set, sorry if
>>>> you
>>>> can't wrap your head around this design.
>>>
>>> Well ... sure, I can wrap my head around it, but all the superlatives like
>>> "wonderful," "fascinating," "brilliant" and "fun" plus the arbitrary,
>>> large
>>> numbers and the generality of your "elements" example made it sound like a
>>> joke ... my mistake then. The Onion video is still funny, though.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Arlo
>>>
>>> _______________________________
>>>
>>> Arlo Leach
>>> 773.769.6106
>>> http://arlomedia.com
>>>
>>> The killer app for the iPad
>>> http://washboardapp.com
>>>
>>>
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>>> chi...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
>> --
>> Steve Gadlin
>> Web Development Manager
>> Weigel Broadcasting
>> 312.660.8375
>> sg...@wc...
>>
>>
>>
>>
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