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Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP / Magento Job
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From: matt d. <mm_...@ya...> - 2009-09-16 04:01:04
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Thanks Jason- To Janine- I would say yes, you probabaly need to know some Drupal or Magento or some hook to get started but don't let those things color your world. Your goal should be to get to some place where your problem solving skills shine. Not your abillity to utlilize a framework. Here's my longer rant- It's been decided. If you don't get a negative response in 12 hours you are 100% correct. Always. (although Richard will still reply about 1 week later) I concurred at exactly September 15, 2009 8:45:03 AM. Having hacked Drupal to get some simple ajax working. I won't comment on what I saw reading the code since there's vested parties on this list. Obviously big frameworks are easy to beat up on because they're easier to sell and consequently everywhere. Ad Agencies can't sell individual programmers- they need to sell a brand. So, sexy names like Drupal take root even though there's nothing great under the covers. Not that there isn't good work there somewhere. Programmers would be wise to fight this. I do. DISCLAIMER/CLAIMER- I work at home 5 days a week, I'm repsonsible for a large in-house ERP system that I only touch for big projects. I'm lazy, although I work 16 hour days. I mostly train jr devs from scratch on this system. They like it when they finally understand it 6 months later. Otherwise they think they are drowning. I have a dog that is high maintenance. I've written more java and C# than anything lately (for billed projects) although that doesn't make me think anything less of PHP. I have an Ethiopian Coffee plant that enjoys the Chicago climate. I'm spacey and look up simple things like str_replace. I don't consider myself a great programmer but think I make up for it by writing super basic code that just fucking works. I have OCD and that's key to trying something for the 100th time before it works because sometimes it takes me that long. I've done side projects using Drupal and I'm NOT a fan. Not that I haven't read a few million lines of various code at this point in my life to have perspective. Our ERP system is 900K lines and I've read it twice(?) There's ugly there but it's hard to rip ERP code out unless you're adventurous. I do know shit from shinola and I yes, I am an old. ________________________________ From: Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> To: Chicago PHP User Group <chi...@li...> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:45:02 AM Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP / Magento Job As someone who just spent 3 months helping a team put drupal into production and 2 weeks replacing it I can tell you that Drupal has a very narrow use-case where it shines. It is NOT a general framework that can help you build a web app by any wild stretch of the imagination. It is not even a good CMS for simple needs. What Drupal is good at is being a complex CMS that is heavily integrated into business operations that are content-centric. Its not for the casual content editor or blogger. Drupal is a perfect case to illustrate Matt's point. Drupal is good at a particular thing and if you are doing that thing it can be great. But as you deviate from that thing there is an almost exponential increase in difficulty trying to make it work. I personally dislike frameworks as most of them tend to give you a lot of rope, allow you to to tie knots very quickly and help you up on to the gallows with shiny buttons. They tend to encourage bad architecture design patterns while emphasizing language semantics and details. Hearing developers get hot and bothered about cool programming models a particular framework encourages is a lot like seeing people get excited about the shiny brass on the Titanic. That is _not_ to say that code-reuse is bad or that you should always invent the wheel yourself but usually frameworks go to far without going far enough (meaning the whole architecture not just language constructs). I'm a BIG fan of libraries and components and code generators.. anything to help you get the job done more efficiently. [looks around].... how'd I end up on this soap box?.. [quickly steps down] matt donohue wrote: > Just my opinion! Larry can sell you on merits. > I think frameworks like Drupal are designed to minimize what a developer can do and I prefer a more flexible, smaller framework that empowers. > It's generally a sign the company does not value (or trust) developers and would rather swap them in like sparkplugs. Probably for good reasons! > Also- any code in a database is a deal-breaker for me. If you like developing in web forms then have at it. > > I also read a good article once about 'green' development which states the case that heavy frameworks or declarative languages like Ruby are pretty wasteful enviroment wise. CPU's = heat, heat = cooling, cooling = wasted energy. > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Janine Starykowicz <jr...@ba...> > To: Chicago PHP User Group <chi...@li...> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:47:53 PM > Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP / Magento Job > > matt donohue wrote: >> It would help if the following occured more often: >> Drupal? Sorry- No thanks. >> > > Can you explain why to a relative newbie who is considering Drupal? > > Janine > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf _______________________________________________ chiPHPug-discuss mailing list chi...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss |
