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From: Nola S. <mrn...@gm...> - 2007-09-27 00:41:10
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BarCamp Milwaukee 2, Saturday, October 13 through Sunday, October 14, 2007 http://barcampmilwaukee.com/ Last year's event was great fun and we think this year will be even better. We would love to have you come and spend time with us if you're available! Where is it? ---------- BarCamp is happening at the Schlitz Park Center, 1555 Rivercenter Drive in downtown Milwaukee, on the river's edge. I was in the meeting space the other day and the whole Schlitz Park and 3rd Street areas are getting revitalized. There's a great energy down there. Here's a map to where BarCamp will take place: http://tinyurl.com/37udgp What is BarCamp all about? ------------------------ It's a space and a place where people interested in learning and sharing can hang out, and learn with others who want to learn and share. BarCamp is a free event but there are also no passive attendees -- we encourage everyone to share something with the group -- whether expertise, knowledge, passion about a topic or simply helping out during the event. http://barcampmilwaukee.com/getting-started How Much is it? -------------- It's totally free! There will be food and camping space provided for attendees who need a place to crash on Saturday night, though you can drive home, or attend just Saturday, or just Sunday, whatever suits your schedule. If you decide to camp, just bring a pillow and a sleeping bag. :-) Free T-Shirt with Registration! -------------------------- Register, and you'll get a cool t-shirt for free: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1403125149&size=l IMPORTANT: It's critical that you sign up by Wednesday, September 26th, and be sure to include your shirt size! Once we take the art and shirt info to the printer on the 26th, there's no guarantee of getting a t-shirt! I would love to have you come to BarCamp Milwaukee 2. It's going to be a great time of learning, sharing and getting to know all kinds of different, interesting people from Milwaukee and the Midwest. Sign up here: http://barcampmilwaukee.com/user/register If you have any questions about the event, send me a note. I'm happy to provide answers. -- http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl http://DevChix.com <http://devchix.com/> - boys can't have all the fun |
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From: Jason R. <ja...@ho...> - 2007-09-30 15:10:08
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Mostly common sense, particularly the "PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ARE LIKE GIRLFRIENDS: THE NEW ONE IS BETTER BECAUSE *YOU* ARE BETTER" http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html |
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From: Anacreo <an...@gm...> - 2007-09-30 18:15:48
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Jason, Thanks for sharing that article. I'd have to say that after playing with Ruby on Rails and being very excited about it, I dropped it like a dead fish. I kind of agree with the author. I don't think PHP is a language that deserves to be dropped yet. I do think it has enough power to accomplish almost any task you throw at it, and for the good programmers out there you can get very clean and maintainable code. The comments on the site are really silly and disregard business realities for simple bias. I've talked to so many ex-Ruby on Rails users and they've all dropped it for one reason or another and they are usually reasons I didn't even think of. Any new programming language be it Perl, Java, or PHP should smack with, "Geez I couldn't even do this before". I dropped Perl as soon as I started with PHP because it was better in so many respects as a language. And when I started coding in Java I thought wow maybe I should have started out as a C programmer so I could be a Java programmer. And that's another thing, I never got into C because there weren't real world business problems that I couldn't accomplish in Perl (there still aren't). I'm not saying Ruby on Rails isn't a good skill but there were quite a few posts in the article who remind me why I'm a UNIX vs a Windows person. I have the skills already to accomplish in UNIX because it's taught me to understand how everything works underneath. Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP is UNIX. Both get the job done one is completely in your control. Alec On 9/30/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote: > > Mostly common sense, particularly the "PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ARE LIKE > GIRLFRIENDS: THE NEW ONE IS BETTER BECAUSE *YOU* ARE BETTER" > > > http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > |
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From: Nola S. <mrn...@gm...> - 2007-10-01 14:57:46
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>Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP is UNIX. Both get the job done one is completely in your control. Thats absurd. The point of the article was that this guy, through learning another language/framework he improved his php. On 9/30/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: > > Jason, > Thanks for sharing that article. I'd have to say that after playing > with > Ruby on Rails and being very excited about it, I dropped it like a dead > fish. I kind of agree with the author. I don't think PHP is a language > that deserves to be dropped yet. I do think it has enough power to > accomplish almost any task you throw at it, and for the good programmers > out > there you can get very clean and maintainable code. The comments on the > site are really silly and disregard business realities for simple bias. > I've talked to so many ex-Ruby on Rails users and they've all dropped it > for > one reason or another and they are usually reasons I didn't even think of. > > Any new programming language be it Perl, Java, or PHP should smack with, > "Geez I couldn't even do this before". I dropped Perl as soon as I > started > with PHP because it was better in so many respects as a language. And > when > I started coding in Java I thought wow maybe I should have started out as > a > C programmer so I could be a Java programmer. And that's another thing, I > never got into C because there weren't real world business problems that I > couldn't accomplish in Perl (there still aren't). > > I'm not saying Ruby on Rails isn't a good skill but there were quite a > few > posts in the article who remind me why I'm a UNIX vs a Windows person. I > have the skills already to accomplish in UNIX because it's taught me to > understand how everything works underneath. Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP > is UNIX. Both get the job done one is completely in your control. > > Alec > > On 9/30/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote: > > > > Mostly common sense, particularly the "PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ARE LIKE > > GIRLFRIENDS: THE NEW ONE IS BETTER BECAUSE *YOU* ARE BETTER" > > > > > > > http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > > chi...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > -- http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun |
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From: Neil Y. <ny...@as...> - 2007-10-01 15:16:16
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I completely agree with Nola - the author says in one of his posts in = the comments that he should have just have disguised the name of the = languages so that readers might have understood the point (as Nola summarized = below) rather than just coming back with a knee-jerk defense of their favorite language. I think this response blog sums up the fanatic response pretty well: http://www.pervasivecode.com/blog/2007/09/23/immature-developer-attitudes= -re vealed-in-flames-regarding-cdbaby/ Neil -----Original Message----- From: chi...@li... [mailto:chi...@li...] On Behalf Of = Nola Stowe Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:58 AM To: Anacreo Cc: chiphpug-discuss Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] good article >Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP is UNIX. Both get the job done one is completely in your control. Thats absurd. The point of the article was that this guy, through learning another language/framework he improved his php. |
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From: Anacreo <an...@gm...> - 2007-10-01 15:18:38
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What's so absurd about that point? With Windows you can use a few widgets and crank out some functionality very quickly, but if you need something those widgets don't provide you're going to have to start writing code at a much lower level and work your way there, how is this not identical to Ruby on Rails? UNIX gives you a very complete basic vocabulary to get everything done and generally you have to put more lines of code in and do things your way but it's exactly what you need, how is PHP any different from that? Alec On 10/1/07, Nola Stowe <mrn...@gm...> wrote: > > >Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP is UNIX. Both get the job done one is > completely in your control. > > Thats absurd. > > The point of the article was that this guy, through learning another > language/framework he improved his php. > > > > On 9/30/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: > > > Jason, > > Thanks for sharing that article. I'd have to say that after playing > > with > > Ruby on Rails and being very excited about it, I dropped it like a dead > > fish. I kind of agree with the author. I don't think PHP is a language > > > > that deserves to be dropped yet. I do think it has enough power to > > accomplish almost any task you throw at it, and for the good programmers > > out > > there you can get very clean and maintainable code. The comments on the > > > > site are really silly and disregard business realities for simple bias. > > I've talked to so many ex-Ruby on Rails users and they've all dropped it > > for > > one reason or another and they are usually reasons I didn't even think > > of. > > > > Any new programming language be it Perl, Java, or PHP should smack > > with, > > "Geez I couldn't even do this before". I dropped Perl as soon as I > > started > > with PHP because it was better in so many respects as a language. And > > when > > I started coding in Java I thought wow maybe I should have started out > > as a > > C programmer so I could be a Java programmer. And that's another thing, > > I > > never got into C because there weren't real world business problems that > > I > > couldn't accomplish in Perl (there still aren't). > > > > I'm not saying Ruby on Rails isn't a good skill but there were quite a > > few > > posts in the article who remind me why I'm a UNIX vs a Windows > > person. I > > have the skills already to accomplish in UNIX because it's taught me to > > understand how everything works underneath. Ruby on Rails is Windows, > > PHP > > is UNIX. Both get the job done one is completely in your control. > > > > Alec > > > > On 9/30/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote: > > > > > > Mostly common sense, particularly the "PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ARE LIKE > > > GIRLFRIENDS: THE NEW ONE IS BETTER BECAUSE *YOU* ARE BETTER" > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > > > chi...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > > chi...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > > > > > > -- > http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl > http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun |
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From: Jason R. <ja...@ho...> - 2007-10-01 15:28:19
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Actually, there is a small grain of truth to that which the article suggests, and that is RoR is a framework which has a proscribed way of doing things and has a set view of the world. Breaking out of this is not easy. This observation on the Windows.NET vs. Unix/PHP comparison was made on this list just a week ago, which is part of why I sent this article along. Its not a great comparison to make as RoR is a framework and PHP is a language. It would be more valid to compare RoR with Cake. What I will say is that Frameworks are generally the next step further than the Coldfusion view of the world, in that they make easy or moderately difficult things easy, and complicated or hard things impossible. Its further along than Coldfusion in that analogy as it does make things that are moderately difficult or repetitive easy, which is a win for a lot of basic apps. I think what most people are finding is that, growth beyond rapid prototype or migration of something that is already large and complicated from a language-based custom solution to a proscribed framework is hard. When you really get going with a complicated or scale-intensive app, you will find that maturity of the platform really matters and that a lot of frameworks dont have the years under their belt that a language like PHP does. All that being said, it would be insane to say that there aren't a lot (and perhaps majority) of use cases where a framework or proscribed approach isn't a big win. The large scale, complicated apps are actually the edge cases and not the norm. Nola Stowe wrote: >> Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP is UNIX. Both get the job done one is > completely in your control. > > Thats absurd. > > The point of the article was that this guy, through learning another > language/framework he improved his php. > > > > On 9/30/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: >> Jason, >> Thanks for sharing that article. I'd have to say that after playing >> with >> Ruby on Rails and being very excited about it, I dropped it like a dead >> fish. I kind of agree with the author. I don't think PHP is a language >> that deserves to be dropped yet. I do think it has enough power to >> accomplish almost any task you throw at it, and for the good programmers >> out >> there you can get very clean and maintainable code. The comments on the >> site are really silly and disregard business realities for simple bias. >> I've talked to so many ex-Ruby on Rails users and they've all dropped it >> for >> one reason or another and they are usually reasons I didn't even think of. >> >> Any new programming language be it Perl, Java, or PHP should smack with, >> "Geez I couldn't even do this before". I dropped Perl as soon as I >> started >> with PHP because it was better in so many respects as a language. And >> when >> I started coding in Java I thought wow maybe I should have started out as >> a >> C programmer so I could be a Java programmer. And that's another thing, I >> never got into C because there weren't real world business problems that I >> couldn't accomplish in Perl (there still aren't). >> >> I'm not saying Ruby on Rails isn't a good skill but there were quite a >> few >> posts in the article who remind me why I'm a UNIX vs a Windows person. I >> have the skills already to accomplish in UNIX because it's taught me to >> understand how everything works underneath. Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP >> is UNIX. Both get the job done one is completely in your control. >> >> Alec >> >> On 9/30/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote: >>> Mostly common sense, particularly the "PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ARE LIKE >>> GIRLFRIENDS: THE NEW ONE IS BETTER BECAUSE *YOU* ARE BETTER" >>> >>> >>> >> http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list >>> chi...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ >> _______________________________________________ >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list >> chi...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss >> > > > |
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From: Peter H. <ph...@ma...> - 2007-10-04 15:06:10
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On Mon, Oct 01, 2007 at 10:27:50AM -0500, Jason Rexilius wrote: > Actually, there is a small grain of truth to that which the article > suggests, and that is RoR is a framework which has a proscribed way of > doing things and has a set view of the world. Breaking out of this is > not easy. I think the article has two vital points and no others. First: Learn everything, even stuff you won't directly use, because it'll teach you about the stuff you do use. Second: Never underestimate the cost of integrating with existing company assets, both the obvious physical ones but also the skillsets people have. > Its not a great comparison to make as RoR is a framework and PHP is a > language. It would be more valid to compare RoR with Cake. http://www.railsenvy.com/2007/8/24/rails-vs-php -- Peter Harkins - http://push.cx - http://NearbyGamers.com |
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From: Arlo L. <ar...@ar...> - 2007-10-04 15:32:29
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Hi folks, > http://www.railsenvy.com/2007/8/24/rails-vs-php Wow, I love PHP, but I'd never go so far as to produce a video about it! (smile) Seriously, though, does anyone else feel like we're hearing too much polemic about the tools of our trade, as if it's the tools themselves and not the skills and experience we apply to them that make us good developers? -Arlo _______________________________ Arlo Leach 773.769.6106 http://arlomedia.com Make friends with your computer http://compyschool.com |
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From: Larry G. <la...@ga...> - 2007-10-04 22:34:17
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On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:32:19 -0500, Arlo Leach <ar...@ar...> wrote: > Hi folks, > >> http://www.railsenvy.com/2007/8/24/rails-vs-php > > Wow, I love PHP, but I'd never go so far as to produce a video about it! > (smile) > > Seriously, though, does anyone else feel like we're hearing too much > polemic > about the tools of our trade, as if it's the tools themselves and not the > skills and experience we apply to them that make us good developers? There's two reasons I have no interest in Ruby on Rails. 1) The Rails-style definition of MVC is fundamentally wrong, flawed, and too restrictive IME. 2) Every RoR fan I know is just like that site. :-) Let's put some Ruby without Rails in front of them and watch them wet themselves. It's still a funny video, though, especially if, like me, you dislike Rails frameworks in general. :-) --Larry Garfield |
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From: Nola S. <mrn...@gm...> - 2007-10-01 16:14:26
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If you want to compare stuff, compare CakePHP to Rails. Comparing php to rails is stupid. Of course you can do "anything you want" in php, because its not a framework. Rails is a framework which has predefined decisions and configuration, making it more limiting to a programmer who doesn't want to follow those conventions. On 10/1/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote: > > Actually, there is a small grain of truth to that which the article > suggests, and that is RoR is a framework which has a proscribed way of > doing things and has a set view of the world. Breaking out of this is > not easy. This observation on the Windows.NET vs. Unix/PHP comparison > was made on this list just a week ago, which is part of why I sent this > article along. > > Its not a great comparison to make as RoR is a framework and PHP is a > language. It would be more valid to compare RoR with Cake. > > What I will say is that Frameworks are generally the next step further > than the Coldfusion view of the world, in that they make easy or > moderately difficult things easy, and complicated or hard things > impossible. Its further along than Coldfusion in that analogy as it > does make things that are moderately difficult or repetitive easy, which > is a win for a lot of basic apps. > > I think what most people are finding is that, growth beyond rapid > prototype or migration of something that is already large and > complicated from a language-based custom solution to a proscribed > framework is hard. > > When you really get going with a complicated or scale-intensive app, you > will find that maturity of the platform really matters and that a lot of > frameworks dont have the years under their belt that a language like PHP > does. > > All that being said, it would be insane to say that there aren't a lot > (and perhaps majority) of use cases where a framework or proscribed > approach isn't a big win. The large scale, complicated apps are > actually the edge cases and not the norm. > > > > > Nola Stowe wrote: > >> Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP is UNIX. Both get the job done one is > > completely in your control. > > > > Thats absurd. > > > > The point of the article was that this guy, through learning another > > language/framework he improved his php. > > > > > > > > On 9/30/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: > >> Jason, > >> Thanks for sharing that article. I'd have to say that after playing > >> with > >> Ruby on Rails and being very excited about it, I dropped it like a dead > >> fish. I kind of agree with the author. I don't think PHP is a > language > >> that deserves to be dropped yet. I do think it has enough power to > >> accomplish almost any task you throw at it, and for the good > programmers > >> out > >> there you can get very clean and maintainable code. The comments on > the > >> site are really silly and disregard business realities for simple bias. > >> I've talked to so many ex-Ruby on Rails users and they've all dropped > it > >> for > >> one reason or another and they are usually reasons I didn't even think > of. > >> > >> Any new programming language be it Perl, Java, or PHP should smack > with, > >> "Geez I couldn't even do this before". I dropped Perl as soon as I > >> started > >> with PHP because it was better in so many respects as a language. And > >> when > >> I started coding in Java I thought wow maybe I should have started out > as > >> a > >> C programmer so I could be a Java programmer. And that's another > thing, I > >> never got into C because there weren't real world business problems > that I > >> couldn't accomplish in Perl (there still aren't). > >> > >> I'm not saying Ruby on Rails isn't a good skill but there were quite > a > >> few > >> posts in the article who remind me why I'm a UNIX vs a Windows > person. I > >> have the skills already to accomplish in UNIX because it's taught me to > >> understand how everything works underneath. Ruby on Rails is Windows, > PHP > >> is UNIX. Both get the job done one is completely in your control. > >> > >> Alec > >> > >> On 9/30/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote: > >>> Mostly common sense, particularly the "PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ARE LIKE > >>> GIRLFRIENDS: THE NEW ONE IS BETTER BECAUSE *YOU* ARE BETTER" > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > >>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > >>> chi...@li... > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > >>> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > >> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > >> chi...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > -- http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun |
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From: Anacreo <an...@gm...> - 2007-10-01 18:14:52
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Well I don't think comparing two things that can achieve the same results is "stupid" for the record. That's like saying you can't compare the advantages of a car vs a bus for getting to a sporting event because they're different. If you want to find out which is the best way to create a certain website then comparing PHP and Ruby on Rails has real world merit. I also believe that weighing people's opinions is good for helping someone to determine what's right for them. Alec On 10/1/07, Nola Stowe <mrn...@gm...> wrote: > > If you want to compare stuff, compare CakePHP to Rails. > > Comparing php to rails is stupid. Of course you can do "anything you > want" > in php, because its not a framework. Rails is a framework which has > predefined decisions and configuration, making it more limiting to a > programmer who doesn't want to follow those conventions. > > > > On 10/1/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote: > > > > Actually, there is a small grain of truth to that which the article > > suggests, and that is RoR is a framework which has a proscribed way of > > doing things and has a set view of the world. Breaking out of this is > > not easy. This observation on the Windows.NET vs. Unix/PHP comparison > > was made on this list just a week ago, which is part of why I sent this > > article along. > > > > Its not a great comparison to make as RoR is a framework and PHP is a > > language. It would be more valid to compare RoR with Cake. > > > > What I will say is that Frameworks are generally the next step further > > than the Coldfusion view of the world, in that they make easy or > > moderately difficult things easy, and complicated or hard things > > impossible. Its further along than Coldfusion in that analogy as it > > does make things that are moderately difficult or repetitive easy, which > > is a win for a lot of basic apps. > > > > I think what most people are finding is that, growth beyond rapid > > prototype or migration of something that is already large and > > complicated from a language-based custom solution to a proscribed > > framework is hard. > > > > When you really get going with a complicated or scale-intensive app, you > > will find that maturity of the platform really matters and that a lot of > > frameworks dont have the years under their belt that a language like PHP > > does. > > > > All that being said, it would be insane to say that there aren't a lot > > (and perhaps majority) of use cases where a framework or proscribed > > approach isn't a big win. The large scale, complicated apps are > > actually the edge cases and not the norm. > > > > > > > > > > Nola Stowe wrote: > > >> Ruby on Rails is Windows, PHP is UNIX. Both get the job done one is > > > completely in your control. > > > > > > Thats absurd. > > > > > > The point of the article was that this guy, through learning another > > > language/framework he improved his php. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/30/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: > > >> Jason, > > >> Thanks for sharing that article. I'd have to say that after > playing > > >> with > > >> Ruby on Rails and being very excited about it, I dropped it like a > dead > > >> fish. I kind of agree with the author. I don't think PHP is a > > language > > >> that deserves to be dropped yet. I do think it has enough power to > > >> accomplish almost any task you throw at it, and for the good > > programmers > > >> out > > >> there you can get very clean and maintainable code. The comments on > > the > > >> site are really silly and disregard business realities for simple > bias. > > >> I've talked to so many ex-Ruby on Rails users and they've all dropped > > it > > >> for > > >> one reason or another and they are usually reasons I didn't even > think > > of. > > >> > > >> Any new programming language be it Perl, Java, or PHP should smack > > with, > > >> "Geez I couldn't even do this before". I dropped Perl as soon as I > > >> started > > >> with PHP because it was better in so many respects as a > language. And > > >> when > > >> I started coding in Java I thought wow maybe I should have started > out > > as > > >> a > > >> C programmer so I could be a Java programmer. And that's another > > thing, I > > >> never got into C because there weren't real world business problems > > that I > > >> couldn't accomplish in Perl (there still aren't). > > >> > > >> I'm not saying Ruby on Rails isn't a good skill but there were > quite > > a > > >> few > > >> posts in the article who remind me why I'm a UNIX vs a Windows > > person. I > > >> have the skills already to accomplish in UNIX because it's taught me > to > > >> understand how everything works underneath. Ruby on Rails is > Windows, > > PHP > > >> is UNIX. Both get the job done one is completely in your control. > > >> > > >> Alec > > >> > > >> On 9/30/07, Jason Rexilius <ja...@ho...> wrote: > > >>> Mostly common sense, particularly the "PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ARE > LIKE > > >>> GIRLFRIENDS: THE NEW ONE IS BETTER BECAUSE *YOU* ARE BETTER" > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/7_reasons_i_switched_back_to_p_1.html > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > > >>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > > >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > > >>> chi...@li... > > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > > >>> > > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > > >> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > > >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > > >> chi...@li... > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > > chi...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > > > > > > -- > http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl > http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > |
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