chiphpug-discuss

[chiPHPug-discuss] Smarty old JSON fresh

[matt d. <mm_...@ya...>]

Trust me- I inherited a Smarty mess and you don't want to go there.
As much as I want to vent, I won't bore anyone.
 
I mostly build data driven business apps and prefer using PHP, JSON and AJAX.
One thing I'm interested in is building javascript template stores and just sending data with JSON (from PHP data row objects)
and letting JS format the template. I use PHP to parse regular HTML into JS template fragments and assemble them on demand.
It handles huge chunks of data very quickly. Think of a quote that has 200 parts. If I sent HTML from the server it would
be about 10MB. Much too long for a sales reps attention span.
(We also use Apache's compression mod but sometimes that has issues).  
I also use Prototype library and other Proto add on's like Event.Selectors.
If you haven't checked out Event.Selectors do it now: http://www.encytemedia.com/event-selectors/
Instead of 50 different repetitive onchange or onclicks you can move all that logic out of the template and the library loads it as
a CSS event listener you define once.
Anyone else doing apps like this?
 
I also recommend anyone on the list subscribe to Ajaxian. I'm always seeing really cool techniques from the newsletter.
http://ajaxian.com/ 
 
Lastly-
Our company also tried an India remote team experiment and although I got a nice trip to New Delhi and Chennai out it, it was not worth enduring the bad phone connections and really bad programming we got tired of re-writing from scratch.
If you think 3 years experience is weak here. 3 years experience from India gets you some really tortuous spaghetti coding.
I noticed things that I never knew drove me crazy. Like someone always using a var $int_ID instead of $ID even though all our tables use ID as an integer? It's pointless. Trivial? You tell me.
I'm sure there are good India programmers out there in a country that big. We just didn't find them- they tend to move here.
Side-note- India programming operations have really cool communal lunches which are amazing and quite tasty. I just wish I didn't see the condition of the lunch truck on my way out.
 
Matt

----- Original Message ----
From: Larry Garfield <la...@ga...>
To: chi...@li...
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:19:43 PM
Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) ]


Smarty used as a tag library, yeah, over-engineered.

Smarty used as a pull-based architecture, I can see being nice.  One of these 
days I should try using it that way to see if I'm right. :-)

On Thursday 24 May 2007, matt donohue wrote:
> You forgot ColdFusion.
> And throw Smarty into the bad idea category (and don't anyone try and
> convince me otherwise).
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Richard Lynch <ce...@l-...>
> To: Nola Stowe <mrn...@gm...>
> Cc: chi...@li...; Anacreo <an...@gm...>
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:50:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening
> (phpWalter) ]
>
>
> I dunno...
>
> I mean, okay, Ruby/Rails, Python, Perl are all great and have their
> place even if they're not for me.
>
> But you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that ASP and VB don't
> suck, by any objective measure. :-)
>
> To be fair, AppleScript also sucks, mainly because there are about a
> hundred ways you COULD express anything, but only 5 of them work, and
> with no rationale behind the 1-in-20 I could ever discern...  I found
> myself more frustrated by its English-like syntax and loosely-defined
> documentation than helped...  But maybe that's just me.
>
> COBOL pretty much sucks too, come to think of it...
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2007 5:50 pm, Nola Stowe wrote:
> > what a subject change!
> >
> > I love ruby .... and rails is a great framework. It all depends on
> > your need. PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place... Its is my new goal
> > in life to end language hate. People who spew blanket statments like
> > "XX language sucks!" ... of which I have been guilty to some extent
> > over the past ... i've learned there are purposes for language and in
> > some cases, they can work together :)  I wrote some posts about php
> > and rails getting along last summer at CodeSnipers.
> >
> > On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote:
> >> Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on
> >> Rails...  I can't believe I'm going to start learning another
> >> language...
> >> Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the
> >> Rails
> >> framework?
> >>
> >> On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote:
> >> > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer.
> >> >
> >> > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place.
> >> >
> >> > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of
> >>
> >> affairs of
> >>
> >> > the economy and the development community at large.
> >> >
> >> > Walter
> >> >
> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >--- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> >> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> >> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> >> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
> >> > chi...@li...
> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> >> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> >> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> >> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
> >> chi...@li...
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
> >
> > --
> > http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl
> > http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> > _______________________________________________
> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
> > chi...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss


-- 
Larry Garfield            AIM: LOLG42
la...@ga...        ICQ: 6817012

"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of 
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, 
which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to 
himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession 
of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it."  -- Thomas 
Jefferson

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
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_______________________________________________
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Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Smarty old JSON fresh

[Anacreo <an...@gm...>]

Well Matt,
  I have to agree with you long before there was a notion of AJAX, I used
rudimentary PHP to pass lots of data to JavaScript and let JavaScript do the
rendering, even on slow machines this moved a lot faster then sending the
data via HTML.  I just happened to be showing someone my PHP code and
noticed on these new 4ghz machines the site just flies 6 years after the
fact with no change to the original code.

  I ended up losing a friend over the Smarty thing.  I agreed to do a site
in PHP at a certain price and timeline.  He then insisted it all be done in
Smarty.  By the time I learned Smarty (and bitched that it was a mess and I
could write a simpler system), I was a month behind schedule and unhappy
with the added complexity.  I'm learning there are some REAL maintenance
issues with Ruby on Rails as I delve deeper, and perhaps it only is nice on
a small quick project but not for something critical that just has to work.


  I don't know what JSON is so I may have to investigate that avenue, thanks
for the information about it.  ...10 Googleseconds later... JSON looks very
nice!  I could drop in some code to make my scripts use it for their PHP ->
JS data moving.  I'm not sure if it's any better then my code but atleast I
can say it's using a standard interface in its documentation!

  And back to the India deal.  I just was asked by a customer for a bid on
re-writing a site I wrote part of and protoyped the rest of 7 years ago
(Truck Logistics).  He had gone down the path of having a fat client written
by an Indian house.  After that failed miserably he showed them my prototype
and they said they could write it for him and 2 years of failed deliveries,
he's now back to me.

  In the end maybe it's just the programmer and the language, database,
interchange format, is just personal preference and won't really impact the
end project.

  I don't gamble much but I like the idea of purely social events!

Alec

On 5/25/07, matt donohue <mm_...@ya...> wrote:
>
> Trust me- I inherited a Smarty mess and you don't want to go there.
> As much as I want to vent, I won't bore anyone.
>
> I mostly build data driven business apps and prefer using PHP, JSON and
> AJAX.
> One thing I'm interested in is building javascript template stores and
> just sending data with JSON (from PHP data row objects)
> and letting JS format the template. I use PHP to parse regular HTML into
> JS template fragments and assemble them on demand.
> It handles huge chunks of data very quickly. Think of a quote that has 200
> parts. If I sent HTML from the server it would
> be about 10MB. Much too long for a sales reps attention span.
> (We also use Apache's compression mod but sometimes that has issues).
> I also use Prototype library and other Proto add on's like Event.Selectors
> .
> If you haven't checked out Event.Selectors do it now:
> http://www.encytemedia.com/event-selectors/
> Instead of 50 different repetitive onchange or onclicks you can move all
> that logic out of the template and the library loads it as
> a CSS event listener you define once.
> Anyone else doing apps like this?
>
> I also recommend anyone on the list subscribe to Ajaxian. I'm always
> seeing really cool techniques from the newsletter.
> http://ajaxian.com/
>
> Lastly-
> Our company also tried an India remote team experiment and although I got
> a nice trip to New Delhi and Chennai out it, it was not worth enduring the
> bad phone connections and really bad programming we got tired of re-writing
> from scratch.
> If you think 3 years experience is weak here. 3 years experience from
> India gets you some really tortuous spaghetti coding.
> I noticed things that I never knew drove me crazy. Like someone always
> using a var $int_ID instead of $ID even though all our tables use ID as an
> integer? It's pointless. Trivial? You tell me.
> I'm sure there are good India programmers out there in a country that big.
> We just didn't find them- they tend to move here.
> Side-note- India programming operations have really cool communal lunches
> which are amazing and quite tasty. I just wish I didn't see the condition of
> the lunch truck on my way out.
>
> Matt
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Larry Garfield <la...@ga...>
> To: chi...@li...
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:19:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening
> (phpWalter) ]
>
>
> Smarty used as a tag library, yeah, over-engineered.
>
> Smarty used as a pull-based architecture, I can see being nice.  One of
> these
> days I should try using it that way to see if I'm right. :-)
>
> On Thursday 24 May 2007, matt donohue wrote:
> > You forgot ColdFusion.
> > And throw Smarty into the bad idea category (and don't anyone try and
> > convince me otherwise).
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Richard Lynch <ce...@l-...>
> > To: Nola Stowe <mrn...@gm...>
> > Cc: chi...@li...; Anacreo <an...@gm...>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:50:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening
> > (phpWalter) ]
> >
> >
> > I dunno...
> >
> > I mean, okay, Ruby/Rails, Python, Perl are all great and have their
> > place even if they're not for me.
> >
> > But you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that ASP and VB don't
> > suck, by any objective measure. :-)
> >
> > To be fair, AppleScript also sucks, mainly because there are about a
> > hundred ways you COULD express anything, but only 5 of them work, and
> > with no rationale behind the 1-in-20 I could ever discern...  I found
> > myself more frustrated by its English-like syntax and loosely-defined
> > documentation than helped...  But maybe that's just me.
> >
> > COBOL pretty much sucks too, come to think of it...
> >
> > On Wed, May 23, 2007 5:50 pm, Nola Stowe wrote:
> > > what a subject change!
> > >
> > > I love ruby .... and rails is a great framework. It all depends on
> > > your need. PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place... Its is my new goal
> > > in life to end language hate. People who spew blanket statments like
> > > "XX language sucks!" ... of which I have been guilty to some extent
> > > over the past ... i've learned there are purposes for language and in
> > > some cases, they can work together :)  I wrote some posts about php
> > > and rails getting along last summer at CodeSnipers.
> > >
> > > On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote:
> > >> Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on
> > >> Rails...  I can't believe I'm going to start learning another
> > >> language...
> > >> Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the
> > >> Rails
> > >> framework?
> > >>
> > >> On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote:
> > >> > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer.
> > >> >
> > >> > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place.
> > >> >
> > >> > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of
> > >>
> > >> affairs of
> > >>
> > >> > the economy and the development community at large.
> > >> >
> > >> > Walter
> > >> >
> > >> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >--- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> > >> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> > >> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> > >> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
> > >> > chi...@li...
> > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
> > >>
> > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> > >> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> > >> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> > >> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
> > >> chi...@li...
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl
> > > http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun
> > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
> > > chi...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
>
>
> --
> Larry Garfield            AIM: LOLG42
> la...@ga...        ICQ: 6817012
>
> "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
> exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
> which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
> himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the
> possession
> of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it."  --
> Thomas
> Jefferson
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> _______________________________________________
> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
> chi...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> _______________________________________________
> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
> chi...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
>

Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Smarty old JSON fresh

[Sarah G. <sa...@fa...>]

Re: Smarty. I've used it on a couple large scale projects (one for 
Nickolodeon, one for a clinical competence system at a large hospital) 
and in both cases found it a helpful technology in terms of code 
separation, partial caching, and a "pure" design layer.  I've seen a lot 
of nastiness about it, in terms of complexity and over-engineering, and 
while there were tons of features on it we had no need for, the basic 
get-up-and-running was straightforward, and learning slight variants on 
looping and conditional constructs simply was not challenge they've been 
presented as at times[{foreach..} v foreach(...) just didn't stop me in 
my tracks :)].  The learning curve was worth the rewards, in my two 
experiences.

That said, those were like 3-4 years ago. If I were starting a project 
*now* I wouldn't use Smarty, and I'd be surprised and suspicious to see 
it chosen as the technology on a new project.  Different if you're 
maintaining.  When it was newer, there simply wasn't the proliferation 
of out-of-the-box frameworks that we're seeing today, at least not for 
PHP (or at least not that I was aware of).  Using Smarty with a database 
abstraction layer was a sort of ad-hoc attempt at separation of concerns 
in larger projects, and gave you stuff that's expected now in frameworks 
such as Rails or Cake.  For instance, it played well with PEAR packages 
such as HTML_QuickForm and DB_DataObject_FormBuilder, so you could 
generate forms (with validation) from db models with a couple lines of 
code, and have pretty much one or 2 .tpl files for as many db table 
forms as needed.  It let you simulate MVC before MVC was so explicitly 
packaged in this or that framework, and in my experiences gave us a 
cleaner code-base.

Now I'd pick up CakePHP or Rails.  I was at Rails Conf last week (also 
PHP Conf) and have been learning both Ruby (the language) and the Rails 
framework for the past 6+ months.  For anyone so inclined, I recommend 
taking a look at both, and I agree with the general enthusiasm for Rails 
that's cropped up on some posts. Even at PHP Conf there was a talk 
entitled "What PHP can learn from Ruby on Rails". I missed that (being 
at RailsConf), but was glad to see it there, because in general it's 
good to see languages and frameworks learning from each other instead of 
caught in the knee-jerk "you suck no *you* suck" baiting that seems to 
tempt so many.  Some things do suck for particular tasks, and some 
things suck when better solutions come along, and OK some things just 
suck entirely, but that's rarely the case. One thing I found odd was 
that CakePHP was not presenting at PHPConf, even though a presentation 
on that would be a great complement to the aforementioned talk, and is 
definitely timely.

The other exciting thing to see was that at both conferences there was 
an increased focus on testing. PHP covered SimpleTest and PHPunit and 
Rails couldn't hit TDD enough. A few years ago at a PHP conference there 
was no mention of testing.  So you can see the cross-pollination of 
better practices, it helps everyone.  In the end, not to sing Kumbaya 
here, each of these languages / frameworks / extensions have their 
place: either for a particular problem domain or for a particular place 
in time.  

Except Flash, of course :) but whatever.  I'm sure souls more charitable 
than I can make a case even for Flash...

matt donohue wrote:
> Trust me- I inherited a Smarty mess and you don't want to go there.
> As much as I want to vent, I won't bore anyone.
>  
> I mostly build data driven business apps and prefer using PHP, JSON and AJAX.
> One thing I'm interested in is building javascript template stores and just sending data with JSON (from PHP data row objects)
> and letting JS format the template. I use PHP to parse regular HTML into JS template fragments and assemble them on demand.
> It handles huge chunks of data very quickly. Think of a quote that has 200 parts. If I sent HTML from the server it would
> be about 10MB. Much too long for a sales reps attention span.
> (We also use Apache's compression mod but sometimes that has issues).  
> I also use Prototype library and other Proto add on's like Event.Selectors.
> If you haven't checked out Event.Selectors do it now: http://www.encytemedia.com/event-selectors/
> Instead of 50 different repetitive onchange or onclicks you can move all that logic out of the template and the library loads it as
> a CSS event listener you define once.
> Anyone else doing apps like this?
>  
> I also recommend anyone on the list subscribe to Ajaxian. I'm always seeing really cool techniques from the newsletter.
> http://ajaxian.com/ 
>  
> Lastly-
> Our company also tried an India remote team experiment and although I got a nice trip to New Delhi and Chennai out it, it was not worth enduring the bad phone connections and really bad programming we got tired of re-writing from scratch.
> If you think 3 years experience is weak here. 3 years experience from India gets you some really tortuous spaghetti coding.
> I noticed things that I never knew drove me crazy. Like someone always using a var $int_ID instead of $ID even though all our tables use ID as an integer? It's pointless. Trivial? You tell me.
> I'm sure there are good India programmers out there in a country that big. We just didn't find them- they tend to move here.
> Side-note- India programming operations have really cool communal lunches which are amazing and quite tasty. I just wish I didn't see the condition of the lunch truck on my way out.
>  
> Matt
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Larry Garfield <la...@ga...>
> To: chi...@li...
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:19:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) ]
>
>
> Smarty used as a tag library, yeah, over-engineered.
>
> Smarty used as a pull-based architecture, I can see being nice.  One of these 
> days I should try using it that way to see if I'm right. :-)
>
> On Thursday 24 May 2007, matt donohue wrote:
>   
>> You forgot ColdFusion.
>> And throw Smarty into the bad idea category (and don't anyone try and
>> convince me otherwise).
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Richard Lynch <ce...@l-...>
>> To: Nola Stowe <mrn...@gm...>
>> Cc: chi...@li...; Anacreo <an...@gm...>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:50:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening
>> (phpWalter) ]
>>
>>
>> I dunno...
>>
>> I mean, okay, Ruby/Rails, Python, Perl are all great and have their
>> place even if they're not for me.
>>
>> But you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that ASP and VB don't
>> suck, by any objective measure. :-)
>>
>> To be fair, AppleScript also sucks, mainly because there are about a
>> hundred ways you COULD express anything, but only 5 of them work, and
>> with no rationale behind the 1-in-20 I could ever discern...  I found
>> myself more frustrated by its English-like syntax and loosely-defined
>> documentation than helped...  But maybe that's just me.
>>
>> COBOL pretty much sucks too, come to think of it...
>>
>> On Wed, May 23, 2007 5:50 pm, Nola Stowe wrote:
>>     
>>> what a subject change!
>>>
>>> I love ruby .... and rails is a great framework. It all depends on
>>> your need. PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place... Its is my new goal
>>> in life to end language hate. People who spew blanket statments like
>>> "XX language sucks!" ... of which I have been guilty to some extent
>>> over the past ... i've learned there are purposes for language and in
>>> some cases, they can work together :)  I wrote some posts about php
>>> and rails getting along last summer at CodeSnipers.
>>>
>>> On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on
>>>> Rails...  I can't believe I'm going to start learning another
>>>> language...
>>>> Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the
>>>> Rails
>>>> framework?
>>>>
>>>> On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of
>>>>>           
>>>> affairs of
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> the economy and the development community at large.
>>>>>
>>>>> Walter
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
>>>>> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
>>>>> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
>>>>> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
>>>>> chi...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
>>>>>           
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
>>>> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
>>>> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
>>>> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
>>>> chi...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
>>>>         
>>> --
>>> http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl
>>> http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
>>> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
>>> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
>>> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list
>>> chi...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss
>>>       
>
>
>   

Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Smarty old JSON fresh

[Kenneth D. <ke...@se...>]

Sarah Gray wrote:
> Now I'd pick up CakePHP or Rails.  I was at Rails Conf last week (also 
> PHP Conf) and have been learning both Ruby (the language) and the Rails 
> framework for the past 6+ months.  For anyone so inclined, I recommend 
> taking a look at both, and I agree with the general enthusiasm for Rails 
> that's cropped up on some posts. Even at PHP Conf there was a talk 
> entitled "What PHP can learn from Ruby on Rails".

Perhaps I can encourage you to look at Andromeda, 
http://www.andromeda-project.org, we are basically the "unframework", 
building upon a very powerful database specification system that I don't 
think anybody else has come close to.  This is not because "they suck" 
but simply because all frameworks out there are concentrating on code 
structure, while we concentrate on automating development tasks based on 
an extremely detailed database specification.

Andromeda is targeted at those who do complex business database 
applications and who need maximum attention to building a powerful 
database.  We also have features for source control, publishing, and 
documentation generation.  Check out the mailing lists at 
www.sourceforge.net/projects/andro.

...we now return you to your regularly scheduled list.

-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com    www.andromeda-project.org
631-689-7200   Fax: 631-689-0527
cell: 631-379-0010