Thread: [chaos-devel] My plan
Status: Pre-Alpha
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From: Henrik Hallin-UU <he...@ca...> - 2007-03-15 10:05:24
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To start working on chaos without storm Create a Chaos.* hierarchy of classes for service handling, filesystem, networking, tornado etc. Chaos.Service.* Chaos.FileSystem.* Chaos.Network.* Chaos.Tornado.* I don't know if we need Chaos.Storm.* stuff or if the kernel could just be a service like everything else (/services/storm/*). Write a "middleware" that implements the service stuff and listens on some socket. Make sure the Chaos.Service.* library talks to this middleware via this socket. Write a simple filesystem server that only uses interfaces under Chaos.*. Write a simple shell that only uses interfaces under Chaos.*. This ought to be quite simple and could be used as a playground for developing the service related stuff and some libraries to get started. One could then start writing a tornado server using GTK.NET or Windows.Forms or whatever is needed to get a graphics surface to draw on. After that we could write our first tornado application! I think this is the easiest track to get started. What do you think? -- Henrik Hallin Casper Minisystem AB Tel. kontor: 018-10 00 18 Tel. direkt: 0707-958 959 |
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From: Henrik Hallin-UU <he...@ca...> - 2007-03-22 10:38:13
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Hi, What we can start doing now is to implement a real shell (Cluido). This ought to easy debugging of servers. Anyone up for the task? Also, it would be really interesting to start hacking at a tornado server. Some of the console related stuff needed by tornado is already there. I/someone only need to implement mouse and keyboard passing from the console server. This ought to be fairly simple and shouldn't take more than a couple of hours. -- Henrik Hallin Casper Minisystem AB Tel. kontor: 018-10 00 18 Tel. direkt: 0707-958 959 |
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From: Johannes L. <joh...@gm...> - 2007-03-22 11:33:32
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Good work so far! Just tested the 0.0.1-release. On 3/22/07, Henrik Hallin-UU <he...@ca...> wrote: > What we can start doing now is to implement a real shell (Cluido). This > ought to easy debugging of servers. Anyone up for the task? I'll try to spend some time on this. |
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From: Henrik Hallin-M1 <he...@ca...> - 2007-03-22 13:07:31
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The 0.0.1 release is really outdated though. :) You should try the latest stuff in SVN... Johannes Lundberg skrev: > Good work so far! Just tested the 0.0.1-release. > > On 3/22/07, Henrik Hallin-UU <he...@ca...> wrote: >> What we can start doing now is to implement a real shell (Cluido). This >> ought to easy debugging of servers. Anyone up for the task? > > I'll try to spend some time on this. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > chaos-devel mailing list > cha...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chaos-devel -- Henrik Hallin Casper Minisystem AB Tel. kontor: 018-10 00 18 Tel. direkt: 0707-958 959 |
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From: Johannes L. <joh...@gm...> - 2007-03-22 16:04:07
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On 3/22/07, Henrik Hallin-M1 <he...@ca...> wrote: > The 0.0.1 release is really outdated though. :) > > You should try the latest stuff in SVN... Ah, cool. The updates you wrote about earlier today? I will do that when I get back from work. |
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From: Henrik Hallin-M1 <he...@ca...> - 2007-03-22 16:33:09
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You should subscribe to the svn-list so you can see that we are constantly checking in new stuff. :) Johannes Lundberg skrev: > On 3/22/07, Henrik Hallin-M1 <he...@ca...> wrote: >> The 0.0.1 release is really outdated though. :) >> >> You should try the latest stuff in SVN... > > Ah, cool. The updates you wrote about earlier today? I will do that > when I get back from work. -- Henrik Hallin Casper Minisystem AB Tel. kontor: 018-10 00 18 Tel. direkt: 0707-958 959 |
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From: Per L. <pe...@gm...> - 2007-03-22 23:05:13
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Henrik Hallin-UU wrote: Hi Henrik, > What we can start doing now is to implement a real shell (Cluido). This > ought to easy debugging of servers. Anyone up for the task? Johannes volunteered and I might also be able to help with some bits there. The Chaos.Security is also something that needs to be implemented soon, as you wrote in another email. As I mentioned to you, we should make Storm.NET launch a set of servers on startup (and give them the capabilities it feels like). Then the Server.Boot should launch Cluido, dropping capabilities as needed. The capability system can be fairly easy but flexible. Perhaps just a set of regular expressions or something. The important point is: Storm.NET has full capabilities (.* in regexp talk). When launching a new server, it can set any capability less than or equal to its own capabilities on the new process. Likewise when the Server.Boot will launch Cluido, it can give it less than or equal to its own capabilities. If we go the regexp road (maybe a bit overkill really) I think the "less than or equal" formula might be a bit hard to implement, to put it mildly. ;) Perhaps a form of simpler globbing is more suitable: Service.* - access to all services. Service.Console - access to a specific service. Storm.CreateService - access to the specific system call in Storm.NET. The problem here is not the implementation really but rather to find a suitable level of fine-grainedness. If you make it too specific, it might get over-complicated to add capabilities to a user etc. (you need to find all the specific capabilities that he needs - can obviously be partially remedied by having capability groups, preferrably with a form of inheritance so that a capability group can contain other capability groups). If you make it too non-specific, we have reimplemented Linux, welcome to the 70's again. :-P Back to where we are now: As soon as the IPC works again :) (it is currently broken in SVN but you are already well aware of this) I think we release chaos.net 0.0.2, to make sure people see that things are proceeding quickly in the right direction. Now, bedtime... -- "stormG3 is obsolete" Best regards, Per Lundberg |
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From: Per L. <pe...@gm...> - 2007-03-15 14:17:23
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Henrik Hallin-UU wrote: > One could then start writing a tornado server using GTK.NET or > Windows.Forms or whatever is needed to get a graphics surface to draw > on. After that we could write our first tornado application! > > I think this is the easiest track to get started. > > What do you think I think this is an excellent idea, Henrik! Good work. And, obviously you have made the right conclusion about the GUI that what we need is a graphics surface (a framebuffer) to draw whatever graphics we want on. DirectX could be an idea but I think the disadvantage of that is that you need to install the DirectX SDK to be able to compile stuff that uses DirectX. Hopefully, we can get something similar with Windows.Forms. Henrik and me chatted a bit about this on MSN and we've set up a new SVN repository for this project, surprisingly code-named chaos.net. :-) The URL is https://chaos.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/chaos/trunk/chaos.net. What you need for compiling this is either Microsoft Visual Studio or the .NET 2.0 SDK + SharpDevelop (which I use) which is freely available for download. GNU/Linux is not required any more so this should make it simpler for people to help out in the project. Henrik is currently hacking around so it's gonna be very interesting to see what comes out of this! What we decided is that for the "test" environment (which builds on top of the existing .NET runtime etc), we use UDP for message connection between service providers and clients. It ought to be one of the simplest way to communicate and we don't need the ACK packets anyway since the IPC is message-based. -- Best regards, Per Lundberg |
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From: Henrik Hallin-UU <he...@ca...> - 2007-03-16 13:57:06
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I will check in a large chunk of code later today. I've been working on getting an initial attempt at the IPC mechanism working. This includes Storm.NET which sits in the middle and manages all services and connections together with a library (Chaos.Service) that will make it easy to write servers and applications. This will probably be working within a few days. After that, people are welcome to write server, write applications or rewrite what I have just written. :) Henrik Per Lundberg skrev: > Per Lundberg wrote: >> I think this is an excellent idea, Henrik! Good work. [...] >> > Hey, what's the matter with you people??? Where's the stunning response? > :-) Come on now, we're gonna take the world with storm again (pun > intended) and this time, it'll be a lot easier to get the project to a > thrilling point where it looks much more like a real operating system > than the old chaos ever came to. > > So, please show some enthusiasm now. :-) > -- Henrik Hallin Casper Minisystem AB Tel. kontor: 018-10 00 18 Tel. direkt: 0707-958 959 |
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From: Johan H. <joh...@gm...> - 2007-03-16 22:04:34
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So. How compatible will this be with Windows CE .NET/.NET Compact Framework= ? ;-) On 3/16/07, Henrik Hallin-UU <he...@ca...> wrote: > I will check in a large chunk of code later today. I've been working on > getting an initial attempt at the IPC mechanism working. This includes > Storm.NET which sits in the middle and manages all services and > connections together with a library (Chaos.Service) that will make it > easy to write servers and applications. This will probably be working > within a few days. After that, people are welcome to write server, write > applications or rewrite what I have just written. :) > > Henrik > > Per Lundberg skrev: > > Per Lundberg wrote: > >> I think this is an excellent idea, Henrik! Good work. [...] > >> > > Hey, what's the matter with you people??? Where's the stunning response= ? > > :-) Come on now, we're gonna take the world with storm again (pun > > intended) and this time, it'll be a lot easier to get the project to a > > thrilling point where it looks much more like a real operating system > > than the old chaos ever came to. > > > > So, please show some enthusiasm now. :-) > > > > -- > Henrik Hallin > Casper Minisystem AB > Tel. kontor: 018-10 00 18 > Tel. direkt: 0707-958 959 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share y= our > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3D= DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > chaos-devel mailing list > cha...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chaos-devel > --=20 6accd=E613eff7i319n4o4qrr4s8t12ux |
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From: Per L. <pe...@gm...> - 2007-03-16 13:00:51
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Per Lundberg wrote: > I think this is an excellent idea, Henrik! Good work. [...] > Hey, what's the matter with you people??? Where's the stunning response? :-) Come on now, we're gonna take the world with storm again (pun intended) and this time, it'll be a lot easier to get the project to a thrilling point where it looks much more like a real operating system than the old chaos ever came to. So, please show some enthusiasm now. :-) -- Best regards, Per Lundberg |
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From: Jonatan B. <Jon...@te...> - 2007-03-16 13:52:57
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p0ng!!!!! Per Lundberg wrote: > Per Lundberg wrote: > >> I think this is an excellent idea, Henrik! Good work. [...] >> >> > Hey, what's the matter with you people??? Where's the stunning response? > :-) Come on now, we're gonna take the world with storm again (pun > intended) and this time, it'll be a lot easier to get the project to a > thrilling point where it looks much more like a real operating system > than the old chaos ever came to. > > So, please show some enthusiasm now. :-) > > |
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From: Daniel A. <da...@se...> - 2007-03-16 14:05:05
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> Per Lundberg wrote: >> I think this is an excellent idea, Henrik! Good work. [...] >> > Hey, what's the matter with you people??? Where's the stunning > response? > :-) Come on now, we're gonna take the world with storm again (pun > intended) and this time, it'll be a lot easier to get the project to a > thrilling point where it looks much more like a real operating system > than the old chaos ever came to. > > So, please show some enthusiasm now. :-) *does the wave* ALL HAIL chaos! / d |
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