Re: [CEDET-devel] CEDET, future and Emacs

[Vladimir N. <loc...@gm...>]

I'm thinking that it is not really feasible to compete with systems that
deliberately aim at supporting IDE-like behaviour. (I.e. LSP)

I think that CEDET's (or, rather, semantic's) potential strength rather
lies in supporting the modes that are unlikely to ever get LSP support.
That's why I was speaking about Scheme, since the Scheme ecosystem consists
of hundreds of almost unmaintained components.
And what's more, there _are_ Scheme standards that are expected to be the
"lingua franca" but do not have any "actual software" implementing them
which would expose it's parser through the lsp, so when I am programming
some obscure (but very useful in niche cases) Scheme system, I would be
able to tell Emacs "well, it's more or less r7rs, do your best".

awk is unlikely to ever get support for lsp, xml/sgml, json, that kind of
guys that don't have a 'single source of authority', or if they have one,
it's not being universally obeyed. Many of them do have their own "modes"
at the moment, but I suspect them to be collections of regexp tricks rather
than semantically consistent parsers. (OTOH, speed may be a bottleneck here)


On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 at 02:18, Fermin <fm...@po...> wrote:

> I think that you can also look into reusing LSP if it's available, but
> expand on the "traditional" IDE features - refactoring (maybe starting with
> simple rename, method extract, etc.), more templates for code, etc. - for
> these things we may not need to have full-blown parsers.
>
> The thing is that, there is already a GNU Emacs LSP client (eglot) that is
> probably going to be merge into Emacs, so I'm not a big fan of overlapping
> functionalities, and giving that LSP doesn't expose the AST, I don't think
> it can be THAT usefull.
>
> Another area is support for build tools, like, Maven for Java, etc. -
> these tools bring more context for code completion, etc.  I had a private
> branch of CEDET that had better support for Maven, Leiningen, and other
> build tools: https://github.com/alexott/cedet/tree/devel - for example, I
> had working completion for Java when using 3rd party libraries:
> https://alexott.blogspot.com/2012/10/new-version-of-article-about-emacscedet.html
>
> That's great! I will look further if we can merge this changes, I also
> think that support more static/easy to parse languages can also be a nice
> and easy addition.
>
> P.S. Unfortunately, right now I don't have much free time, so I surrended
> & using Idea for Java/Scala code
>
> I can totally understand this, no problem, I saw that the history of Emacs
> and java is... interesting to say the least 😅
>
> On 28/03/2021 20:08, Alex Ott wrote:
>
> I think that you can also look into reusing LSP if it's available, but
> expand on the "traditional" IDE features - refactoring (maybe starting with
> simple rename, method extract, etc.), more templates for code, etc. - for
> these things we may not need to have full-blown parsers.
>
> Another area is support for build tools, like, Maven for Java, etc. -
> these tools bring more context for code completion, etc.  I had a private
> branch of CEDET that had better support for Maven, Leiningen, and other
> build tools: https://github.com/alexott/cedet/tree/devel - for example, I
> had working completion for Java when using 3rd party libraries:
> https://alexott.blogspot.com/2012/10/new-version-of-article-about-emacscedet.html
>
> P.S. Unfortunately, right now I don't have much free time, so I surrended
> & using Idea for Java/Scala code
>
> On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 8:00 PM Fermin <fm...@po...> wrote:
>
>> You are right, keeping up with new languages is quite hard, I think this
>> is why CEDET need more people involve, we can never match
>> the level of adoption of LSP, but we can provide a decent programming
>> experience for a variety of languages.
>>
>> Focusing on a balance between popular (to attract users) and stable
>> (languages that don't require a lot of changes over time) can be
>> an interesting strategy, I'm not saying to focus all the energy into
>> writing a javascript production parser or a Ada parser, something in
>>  between, that can be stable enough and popular enough.
>>
>> For now, I think improving the actual parsing infrastructure is more
>> critical that supporting new languages, giving the synchronous nature
>> of CEDET, right now is not well suited for large projects, Emacs now
>> support (partially, and in a hackish way) asynchronous processing
>> <https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/async.html>,
>> and I hope in the near future, with native compilation
>> <https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GccEmacs>, the elisp performance can
>> improve drastically ,which can really play really well if CEDET is prepared
>> to take advantage of this changes.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28/03/2021 19:13, Alex Ott wrote:
>>
>> Imho, LSP is still required - it's quite hard to build grammars for
>> multiple languages, and maintain them as languages evolve...
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 6:15 PM Pankaj Jangid <pa...@co...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Vladimir Nikishkin <loc...@gm...> writes:
>>>
>>> > Things are actually moving (albeit not super fast), just not inside
>>> the SF
>>> > repo. Since cedet was merged into the main emacs tree, you need to grep
>>> > emacs' git log, not sf repos.
>>>
>>> Yup. Just saw one more commit today. I build emacs-master daily for my
>>> personal use.
>>>
>>> By "not moving" I meant that the expectations are high. Things like LSP
>>> would not be required if CEDET is seriously taken care of.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> With best wishes,                    Alex Ott
>> http://alexott.net/
>> Twitter: alexott_en (English), alexott (Russian)
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> With best wishes,                    Alex Ott
> http://alexott.net/
> Twitter: alexott_en (English), alexott (Russian)
>
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-- 
Yours sincerely, Vladimir Nikishkin
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