Thread: [Bluemusic-users] I have a dream, or a major feature request
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From: <att...@gm...> - 2008-01-12 12:58:15
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Hi I really, really, really enjoy working with blue. Actually so much that I hope to more or less use it exclusively for the next CD for my project "modlys", that I'll start as soon as the first CD is out (should be within a month). However, there is one thing I really miss when working with blue: playing. For me many ideas are best worked when playing along. For the first CD I (besides two tracks in blue) used a lot (too many) programs including muse (sequencer), ardour (DAW), zynaddsubfx, ams, pd, phasex, (synths), specimen (sampler) and dssi instruments and ladspa plugins. I think all of that could be simplified, amplified and stabilized by using only the amazing blue. For an example of some of what I did, that is most naturally done with my fingers on the keys is the piano part in this track from the first CD: http://atte.dk/download/holde_pkt.mp3 Is there any hope that "playing keyboard into blue" will happen? In any case I think the cleanest and actually the easiest way to implement this would be to have instruments that work with both midi and score (it's the instrument designers responsibility, I know. I did a few tests in this direction a couple years ago, but left it an since my instruments have been mostly midi, before rediscovering blue a month ago). Then the auditioning while playing could be done with the midi part of the instrument, while blue is recording the incoming midi-data. Afterwards these should be translated to score data. I'm not sure but I think a lot of the midi processing (most importantly quantize) could be done with existing note processors. I do realize that it's not a simple task, and I might be the only user really needing this, but I can still hope that something like this could be implemented. So how about it? Am I crazy or off track? -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk |
From: Cesare M. <ce...@po...> - 2008-01-12 17:34:18
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Atte André Jensen wrote: > Hi > > I really, really, really enjoy working with blue. Actually so much that > I hope to more or less use it exclusively for the next CD for my project > "modlys", that I'll start as soon as the first CD is out (should be > within a month). > > However, there is one thing I really miss when working with blue: > playing. For me many ideas are best worked when playing along. For the > first CD I (besides two tracks in blue) used a lot (too many) programs > including muse (sequencer), ardour (DAW), zynaddsubfx, ams, pd, phasex, > (synths), specimen (sampler) and dssi instruments and ladspa plugins. I > think all of that could be simplified, amplified and stabilized by using > only the amazing blue. For an example of some of what I did, that is > most naturally done with my fingers on the keys is the piano part in > this track from the first CD: > > http://atte.dk/download/holde_pkt.mp3 > > Is there any hope that "playing keyboard into blue" will happen? > > In any case I think the cleanest and actually the easiest way to > implement this would be to have instruments that work with both midi and > score (it's the instrument designers responsibility, I know. I did a few > tests in this direction a couple years ago, but left it an since my > instruments have been mostly midi, before rediscovering blue a month > ago). Then the auditioning while playing could be done with the midi > part of the instrument, while blue is recording the incoming midi-data. > Afterwards these should be translated to score data. I'm not sure but I > think a lot of the midi processing (most importantly quantize) could be > done with existing note processors. > > I do realize that it's not a simple task, and I might be the only user > really needing this, but I can still hope that something like this could > be implemented. > > So how about it? Am I crazy or off track? > > Hi Atte, I've felt this need too. But I took another route. I made a very basic opcode to synchronize other apps with blue via jack transport. Maybe you can find it useful too: http://www.cesaremarilungo.com/download/csound/jackTransportOpcode.tar.gz jack_transport 0 -- start jack_transport 1 -- stop jack_transport 2 -- rewind Cheers, -c. -- www.cesaremarilungo.com |
From: <att...@gm...> - 2008-01-12 18:39:51
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Cesare Marilungo wrote: > I made a very basic opcode to synchronize other apps with blue via jack > transport. Maybe you can find it useful too: That sounds like a very cool workaround. The biggest problem as I see it, it that those other instruments doesn't benefit from blue's power. I mean if I could choose freely I'd choose csound over any synth (except for a few high end hardware synths), any time. > http://www.cesaremarilungo.com/download/csound/jackTransportOpcode.tar.gz > > jack_transport 0 -- start > jack_transport 1 -- stop > jack_transport 2 -- rewind I'm gonna have to check it out! -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk |
From: Cesare M. <ce...@po...> - 2008-01-12 18:59:49
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Atte André Jensen wrote: > Cesare Marilungo wrote: > > >> I made a very basic opcode to synchronize other apps with blue via jack >> transport. Maybe you can find it useful too: >> > > That sounds like a very cool workaround. The biggest problem as I see > it, it that those other instruments doesn't benefit from blue's power. I > mean if I could choose freely I'd choose csound over any synth (except > for a few high end hardware synths), any time. > Me too. But you can use Rosegarden, for instance, just to record and playback midi and route its midi out to some csound instruments. Or record audio (synchronized to your blue project) and import it in blue at the mixing stage. > >> http://www.cesaremarilungo.com/download/csound/jackTransportOpcode.tar.gz >> >> jack_transport 0 -- start >> jack_transport 1 -- stop >> jack_transport 2 -- rewind >> > > I'm gonna have to check it out! > > -- www.cesaremarilungo.com |
From: <att...@gm...> - 2008-01-13 09:53:09
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Cesare Marilungo wrote: > But you can use Rosegarden, for instance, just to record and playback > midi and route its midi out to some csound instruments. Or record audio > (synchronized to your blue project) and import it in blue at the mixing > stage. Would you then import the midi intor blue or record the audio produced by csound and import that? The problem is that the mixing stage for me is really all over the place :-) Of course I do alot of that in the end, but I still like to be able to change every thing even at the last moment. -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk |
From: Cesare M. <ce...@po...> - 2008-01-13 11:35:23
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Atte André Jensen wrote: > Cesare Marilungo wrote: > > >> But you can use Rosegarden, for instance, just to record and playback >> midi and route its midi out to some csound instruments. Or record audio >> (synchronized to your blue project) and import it in blue at the mixing >> stage. >> > > Would you then import the midi intor blue or record the audio produced > by csound and import that? > > The problem is that the mixing stage for me is really all over the place > :-) Of course I do alot of that in the end, but I still like to be able > to change every thing even at the last moment. > > I understand what you're saying. Of course it would be awesome to make everything inside a single tool. -c. -- www.cesaremarilungo.com |
From: Atte A. J. <att...@gm...> - 2008-02-27 16:12:32
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Cesare Marilungo wrote: > I made a very basic opcode to synchronize other apps with blue via jack > transport. Maybe you can find it useful too: Indeed, it works. Could you elaborate a bit, for instance: 1) Should I set the tempo of blue/ardour to the same by hand? 2) Should it only be called once and from thereon jack/ardour should stay in sync with blue/csound? 3) How can I make it so that I only have to press one stop button (in either ardour/qjackctl/blue) and not both ardour and blue 4) How do you setup stuff on the blue side, which instrument/wrapper for jacktransport, which sndObj? 5) Do you have any solutions to the problem that csounds output disappears from jack on stop, and hence makes it impossible to do what I normally do: route audio of all applications through ardour? -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk |
From: Cesare M. <ce...@po...> - 2008-02-27 19:24:52
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Atte André Jensen wrote: > Cesare Marilungo wrote: > > >> I made a very basic opcode to synchronize other apps with blue via jack >> transport. Maybe you can find it useful too: >> > > Indeed, it works. Could you elaborate a bit, for instance: > > 1) Should I set the tempo of blue/ardour to the same by hand? > > Yes. > 2) Should it only be called once and from thereon jack/ardour should > stay in sync with blue/csound? > It only starts the transport when the instrument in which the opcode is used is played. So you should make an instrument with jacktransport 1 and call it once from the score with p2 = 0 or when you want to start it. Sync is not guaranteed. > 3) How can I make it so that I only have to press one stop button (in > either ardour/qjackctl/blue) and not both ardour and blue > You have to do both. Or you can call an instrument with: jacktransport 0 at the end of the score to stop ardour, too. > 4) How do you setup stuff on the blue side, which instrument/wrapper for > jacktransport, which sndObj? > > 5) Do you have any solutions to the problem that csounds output > disappears from jack on stop, and hence makes it impossible to do what I > normally do: route audio of all applications through ardour? > > This would require modifying the jack interface in csound. The opcode is just a quick hack and it is fairly limited, since it doesn't create another jack instance. It uses the one created by csound. I use this opcode when I want to record a track live to ardour (or whatever) over a base done in csound/blue, so the recorded track can be used with csound or the other way around (you render the csound performance and import it in ardour). I have an instrument like: instr 1 jacktransport p4 endin and I call it from the score with: i1 0 1 1 -c. -- www.cesaremarilungo.com |
From: Atte A. J. <att...@gm...> - 2008-02-27 19:42:39
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Cesare Marilungo wrote: > I use this opcode when I want to record a track live to ardour (or > whatever) over a base done in csound/blue, so the recorded track can be > used with csound or the other way around (you render the csound > performance and import it in ardour). Ah, I see. I was expecting something that'd allow me to "develop" the track in ardour/muse/blue at the same time with the three programs syncing along. This seems to be out of scope for the jacktransport opcode, right? It's merely offering a way of recording the output of csound to for instance ardour once in a while. In that case it doesn't make much difference from render to disc and importing (with link-to-file) this into ardour, except if one is using realtime controls during the csound performance, right? -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk |
From: Cesare M. <ce...@po...> - 2008-02-27 20:20:18
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Atte André Jensen wrote: > Cesare Marilungo wrote: > > >> I use this opcode when I want to record a track live to ardour (or >> whatever) over a base done in csound/blue, so the recorded track can be >> used with csound or the other way around (you render the csound >> performance and import it in ardour). >> > > Ah, I see. I was expecting something that'd allow me to "develop" the > track in ardour/muse/blue at the same time with the three programs > syncing along. This seems to be out of scope for the jacktransport > opcode, right? > > It's merely offering a way of recording the output of csound to for > instance ardour once in a while. In that case it doesn't make much > difference from render to disc and importing (with link-to-file) this > into ardour, except if one is using realtime controls during the csound > performance, right? > > It's is intended for the use you're describing, with the limitations that you lose the connections to the csound jack instance when you stop csound (or it ends the score) and that you have to stop ardour manually. If you use csound to process audio input, or if you want to record the csound output and/or process it inside ardour you can still leave some space in your score to have the time to connect stuff and then start the transport after n seconds. -c. -- www.cesaremarilungo.com |
From: Atte A. J. <att...@gm...> - 2008-02-27 20:21:09
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Atte André Jensen wrote: > It's merely offering a way of recording the output of csound to for > instance ardour once in a while. In that case it doesn't make much > difference from render to disc and importing (with link-to-file) this > into ardour, except if one is using realtime controls during the csound > performance, right? Hmmm, I can't let this go. Maybe Steve has an idea of what can be done: I want to be abl to start blue and jack will automatically start at the same spot. While looking at <RENDER:START> and experimenting with different things, I can't get my head around it. How do I write an instrument (and layout some "triggering" of it in blue) that'll start jack at the spot where csound was started. It should work at any tempo and be fairly automatic. It must be possible... -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk |
From: Atte A. J. <att...@gm...> - 2008-02-29 06:28:25
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Steven Yi wrote: > Hi Atte, > > There already is a <RENDER_START> variable; it is described here: I know. I played with it, bt (bacause my tempo isn't 60) it doesn't work for this purpose. > So perhaps > <RENDER_START_ABSOLUTE>? (If so, please file a request in the request > tracker). Done, thanks. -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk |
From: Mark V. P. <Mar...@te...> - 2008-01-12 20:10:27
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I'm not sure, but maybe Blue Live is what you want. I haven't tried it myself yet. See under Other Features in the table of contents in the Blue manual. Atte André Jensen schreef: > Hi > > I really, really, really enjoy working with blue. Actually so much that > I hope to more or less use it exclusively for the next CD for my project > "modlys", that I'll start as soon as the first CD is out (should be > within a month). > > However, there is one thing I really miss when working with blue: > playing. For me many ideas are best worked when playing along. For the > first CD I (besides two tracks in blue) used a lot (too many) programs > including muse (sequencer), ardour (DAW), zynaddsubfx, ams, pd, phasex, > (synths), specimen (sampler) and dssi instruments and ladspa plugins. I > think all of that could be simplified, amplified and stabilized by using > only the amazing blue. For an example of some of what I did, that is > most naturally done with my fingers on the keys is the piano part in > this track from the first CD: > > http://atte.dk/download/holde_pkt.mp3 > > Is there any hope that "playing keyboard into blue" will happen? > > In any case I think the cleanest and actually the easiest way to > implement this would be to have instruments that work with both midi and > score (it's the instrument designers responsibility, I know. I did a few > tests in this direction a couple years ago, but left it an since my > instruments have been mostly midi, before rediscovering blue a month > ago). Then the auditioning while playing could be done with the midi > part of the instrument, while blue is recording the incoming midi-data. > Afterwards these should be translated to score data. I'm not sure but I > think a lot of the midi processing (most importantly quantize) could be > done with existing note processors. > > I do realize that it's not a simple task, and I might be the only user > really needing this, but I can still hope that something like this could > be implemented. > > So how about it? Am I crazy or off track? > > -- Mark _________________________________________ When you get lemons, you make lemonade. When you get hardware, you make software. |
From: <att...@gm...> - 2008-01-13 09:59:22
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Mark Van Peteghem wrote: > I'm not sure, but maybe Blue Live is what you want. I'm still to try that out, thank for suggesting it! I went over the manual entry again, and I'm not totally clear about how it works, but I'm sure that becomes clear when playing around with it. I'll report back later when I tried it out! -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk |
From: Steven Y. <ste...@gm...> - 2008-01-13 01:22:59
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Hi Atte, The mp3 is nice! Mark mentioned blueLive, and I did do some work on basic MIDI recording sometime last year; the SCO Pad part of blueLive was what I worked on which is supposed to work like Finale-like notation. It didn't record in real time but instead recorded pitches and incremented time using 4 for quarter note, 5 for half note, etc. (Strange, just testing, it doesn't work with the number pad here but does work the the numbers on the top of the keyboard). This part of blueLive does work on Windows as it uses Java's midi system. I would like it really if this work could be used to support MIDI recording in realtime. Something that would be necessary: -Instrument note metadata system needs to be implemented (some discussion has been done here, but basically need to allow describing instrument pfields in instrument with types and ranges; this would be used all around blue then as note template data for things like midi input, pianoroll or tracker note template filling, etc.) -make sure times are mapped to tempo if tempo changes used (this makes me want the tempo editor to be written first; i think this would be useful anyways as we could create our own tempo map to be readable by instruments) -figure out UI for recording, how to handle recording of MIDI data (auto create generic soundObjects?) There's a great number of things in blue I'd like to work on now especially with all the great ideas you've been bringing up, but I am so crunched right now for time with a number of writing and other projects. =3D( It'd be nice to draft some Java programmers sometime, but that doesn't seem likely. Hopefully can finish up with my projects sooner rather than later as I'd rather be working on and with blue right now! steven On Jan 12, 2008 4:58 AM, Atte Andr=E9 Jensen <att...@gm...> wrote: > Hi > > I really, really, really enjoy working with blue. Actually so much that > I hope to more or less use it exclusively for the next CD for my project > "modlys", that I'll start as soon as the first CD is out (should be > within a month). > > However, there is one thing I really miss when working with blue: > playing. For me many ideas are best worked when playing along. For the > first CD I (besides two tracks in blue) used a lot (too many) programs > including muse (sequencer), ardour (DAW), zynaddsubfx, ams, pd, phasex, > (synths), specimen (sampler) and dssi instruments and ladspa plugins. I > think all of that could be simplified, amplified and stabilized by using > only the amazing blue. For an example of some of what I did, that is > most naturally done with my fingers on the keys is the piano part in > this track from the first CD: > > http://atte.dk/download/holde_pkt.mp3 > > Is there any hope that "playing keyboard into blue" will happen? > > In any case I think the cleanest and actually the easiest way to > implement this would be to have instruments that work with both midi and > score (it's the instrument designers responsibility, I know. I did a few > tests in this direction a couple years ago, but left it an since my > instruments have been mostly midi, before rediscovering blue a month > ago). Then the auditioning while playing could be done with the midi > part of the instrument, while blue is recording the incoming midi-data. > Afterwards these should be translated to score data. I'm not sure but I > think a lot of the midi processing (most importantly quantize) could be > done with existing note processors. > > I do realize that it's not a simple task, and I might be the only user > really needing this, but I can still hope that something like this could > be implemented. > > So how about it? Am I crazy or off track? > > -- > peace, love & harmony > Atte > > http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen > http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketpl= ace > _______________________________________________ > Bluemusic-users mailing list > Blu...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluemusic-users > |
From: <att...@gm...> - 2008-01-13 10:09:29
|
Steven Yi wrote: > The mp3 is nice! Thanks :-) > Mark mentioned blueLive, and I did do some work on basic MIDI > recording sometime last year; the SCO Pad part of blueLive was what I > worked on which is supposed to work like Finale-like notation. I never used finale, so... > It > didn't record in real time but instead recorded pitches and > incremented time using 4 for quarter note, 5 for half note, etc. > (Strange, just testing, it doesn't work with the number pad here but > does work the the numbers on the top of the keyboard). This part of > blueLive does work on Windows as it uses Java's midi system. So it's like step recording; select a length, press the note on the midi keyboard, for every note? Is that behaviour part of blue live now, or were you just referring to some experiments you did on local code? > I would like it really if this work could be used to support MIDI > recording in realtime. Something that would be necessary: Great! > -Instrument note metadata system needs to be implemented (some > discussion has been done here, but basically need to allow describing > instrument pfields in instrument with types and ranges; this would be > used all around blue then as note template data for things like midi > input, pianoroll or tracker note template filling, etc.) Do you mean like: "map velocity (0-127) to p5 and midi note to p4 which expects pitch class format"? > -make sure times are mapped to tempo if tempo changes used (this makes > me want the tempo editor to be written first; i think this would be > useful anyways as we could create our own tempo map to be readable by > instruments) Isn't the t-statement enough? I didn't use tempo change with blue yet, but I expect them to work out-of-the-box... > -figure out UI for recording, how to handle recording of MIDI data > (auto create generic soundObjects?) Something like that... > There's a great number of things in blue I'd like to work on now > especially with all the great ideas you've been bringing up, but I am > so crunched right now for time with a number of writing and other > projects. =( It'd be nice to draft some Java programmers sometime, > but that doesn't seem likely. Hopefully can finish up with my > projects sooner rather than later as I'd rather be working on and with > blue right now! It's good to hear that you have an interrest in taking blue to new areas! No worries regarding time available. For now I can live with soundObjects, blue live (which I'm still to try out) or the midi-sync to jack option mentioned by Cesare. Of course it could be very nice eventually... -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk |
From: Steven Y. <ste...@gm...> - 2008-02-29 06:14:45
|
Hi Atte, There already is a <RENDER_START> variable; it is described here: http://csounds.com/stevenyi/blue/usermanual/html/blueVariables.html It does not however take into account tempo statements so it might not quite work for you. This was useful back in the day before the mixer and effects and when creating always-on instruments that always started at time 0 (blue translates and scales score depending on when render is started). If you need this to be the real time (i.e. taking into account tempo statement timewarping), I think we would need a separate variable as RENDER_START has it's own use case and there is legacy concerns to keep it exactly as-is. So perhaps <RENDER_START_ABSOLUTE>? (If so, please file a request in the request tracker). Thanks! steven On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Atte André Jensen <att...@gm...> wrote: > Atte André Jensen wrote: > > > It's merely offering a way of recording the output of csound to for > > instance ardour once in a while. In that case it doesn't make much > > difference from render to disc and importing (with link-to-file) this > > into ardour, except if one is using realtime controls during the csound > > performance, right? > > Hmmm, I can't let this go. Maybe Steve has an idea of what can be done: > > I want to be abl to start blue and jack will automatically start at the > same spot. > > While looking at <RENDER:START> and experimenting with different things, > I can't get my head around it. How do I write an instrument (and layout > some "triggering" of it in blue) that'll start jack at the spot where > csound was started. It should work at any tempo and be fairly automatic. > > It must be possible... > > > > -- > peace, love & harmony > Atte > > http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen > http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Bluemusic-users mailing list > Blu...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluemusic-users > |
From: Steven Y. <ste...@gm...> - 2008-02-29 06:41:07
|
Hi Atte, I checked in a first attempt. Would you mind updating from CVS and giving it a try? (It should be called <RENDER_START_ABSOLUTE>) Thanks, steven On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 10:28 PM, Atte André Jensen <att...@gm...> wrote: > Steven Yi wrote: > > Hi Atte, > > > > There already is a <RENDER_START> variable; it is described here: > > I know. I played with it, bt (bacause my tempo isn't 60) it doesn't work > for this purpose. > > > > So perhaps > > <RENDER_START_ABSOLUTE>? (If so, please file a request in the request > > tracker). > > Done, thanks. > > -- > > > peace, love & harmony > Atte > > http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen > http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Bluemusic-users mailing list > Blu...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluemusic-users > |
From: Atte A. J. <att...@gm...> - 2008-03-01 07:26:53
Attachments:
sync.blue
|
Steven Yi wrote: > I checked in a first attempt. Would you mind updating from CVS and > giving it a try? (It should be called <RENDER_START_ABSOLUTE>) It seems to work very well, thanks. I had to experiment a bit before figuring out which one line of code to place where :-) Attached is what I came up with. However, one thing is missing for integration with jack to be acceptable: a way to trigger the "jacktransport 0" when stopping blue. I don't think this is neccesary right now? It should basically sent the above (or some user-defined csound code, either osc code or sco code) when the stop-button is clicked or F9 is pressed. Is this something you'd consider? -- peace, love & harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk |