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From: Blake B. <Bla...@De...> - 2001-05-01 18:06:48
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Without simplicity for the "dumb" web developer you'll lose marketability. Smarty has been working quite well for us, the speed is excellent. We get complex page renders in 0.02-0.8 seconds, with multiple DB queries. We never could have finished our site within deadlines without an extremely simple template system. Smarty has both the simplicity and the required level of sophisication to offer a good solution to anyone, especially since you can define your own tag delimiters and basically add anything that is required by a specific installation. (Smarty.addons.php is nice for this.) There may be other superior technologies and more well-defined specifications but the simplicity is the selling feature of a template system IMHO. Blake Barnett Sr. Unix Architect DevelopOnline.com -----Original Message----- From: Alex Black [mailto:en...@tu...] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 10:45 AM To: binarycloud-dev Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] the xsl decision > On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Alex Black wrote: > >> hi all, >> >> I've been mulling over ditching support for "parsed/block" templates from r2 >> in favor of: >> -pure XSL >> -an XSL -> PHP makefile for speed in important areas. > > By this you mean droping "smarty"-style templates, right? I'm cool with it > as long as we can compile the XSL templates... :) Heh, you want to write the code? :) > I hate the XSL syntax, but it is the standard, so we web developers > are going to have to live with it, I guess. Well, I'm not in love with it either, but it's a hell of a lot more efficient than (even cached) "block style" templates. This isn't final, i.e. I need to work out some other things before I'm convinced that XSL - only - is a good option. _a -- alex black, ceo en...@tu... the turing studio, inc. http://www.turingstudio.com vox+510.666.0074 fax+510.666.0093 _______________________________________________ binarycloud-dev mailing list bin...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev |
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From: Blake B. <Bla...@De...> - 2001-05-01 21:37:57
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No, admittedly I only know what the acronym means. I do know it has been said to be overly complex. And quite frustrating to work with. People say the same things of linux but I have no problems there. So perhaps it requires a bit more investigation on my part. I think using XSL for other capabilities and still allowing people to have a simple template system is a good solution. Though it probably means twice (or more) as much work for you. * Blake -----Original Message----- From: Alex Black [mailto:en...@tu...] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:27 AM To: binarycloud-dev Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] the xsl decision > Without simplicity for the "dumb" web developer you'll lose marketability. > Smarty has been working quite well for us, the speed is excellent. We get Which is why I have note made a decision to ditch parsed templates. However, with XSL, you gain a _huge_ range of capabilities that are not available from parsed templates. (think on the fly PDFs, etc) > complex page renders in 0.02-0.8 seconds, with multiple DB queries. We > never could have finished our site within deadlines without an extremely > simple template system. Smarty has both the simplicity and the required > level of sophisication to offer a good solution to anyone, especially since > you can define your own tag delimiters and basically add anything that is > required by a specific installation. (Smarty.addons.php is nice for this.) > > There may be other superior technologies and more well-defined > specifications but the simplicity is the selling feature of a template > system IMHO. Have you used XSL? _alex -- alex black, ceo en...@tu... the turing studio, inc. http://www.turingstudio.com vox+510.666.0074 fax+510.666.0093 _______________________________________________ binarycloud-dev mailing list bin...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-05-01 21:58:41
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> No, admittedly I only know what the acronym means. I do know it has been > said to be overly complex. And quite frustrating to work with. People say > the same things of linux but I have no problems there. So perhaps it > requires a bit more investigation on my part. XSL has problems, absolutely. It is also the most powerful template tool I have come across, so it warrants attention. The syntax isn't complex, it's verbose, which bothers some people (including me). But when you work with it for a little while, you realize that in combination with some necessary tools, it's extremely powerful and flexible. You can render WML, HTML, and PDF from the _same_ document with XSL. That's beefy. > I think using XSL for other capabilities and still allowing people to have a > simple template system is a good solution. Though it probably means twice > (or more) as much work for you. The way that will need to go is I put the smarty templates in the spec, and see who in the community is willing to construct the subclass for TemplateManager. Starting with r2, there's going to be more code spec'd than will be generated inside turing. _alex -- alex black, ceo en...@tu... the turing studio, inc. http://www.turingstudio.com vox+510.666.0074 fax+510.666.0093 |
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From: Peter B. <re...@f2...> - 2001-05-02 19:40:39
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Ooops - forgot the link :-) http://yapbb.sourceforge.net/article.php?sid=5&mode=threaded&order=0 or http://www.hotscripts.com/Detailed/9932.html At 01:02 PM 5/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >I'm partial to a JSP-style on-the-fly recompilation based on file >modification dates (is that how JSP works? I'm not really sure, but I hope >you understand what I mean). Have a look at a new PHP template engine that appeared in the last couple of weeks: PHP Server Pages Cooker (PSPCooker) "PSPCooker is a new template engine for PHP, that mimics Sun's JSP functionality. External template files (static HTML files) are compiled into PHP files when requested. Then and on subsequent requests, the generated PHP files are executed. PSPCooker is able to detect when a HTML source file has been modified and will recompile the associated PHP file automatically." Hope that's useful, Peter. ---oOo--- Do you sendcard? http://www.sendcard.f2s.com/ PHP postcard script supporting 9 databases! ---oOo--- |
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From: Blake B. <Bla...@De...> - 2001-05-02 23:16:28
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This is what Smarty has been doing for a while. -----Original Message----- From: Luke Francl [mailto:fra...@tc...] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:41 PM To: bin...@li... Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] the xsl decision On Wed, 2 May 2001, Peter Bowyer wrote: > Have a look at a new PHP template engine that appeared in the last couple > of weeks: PHP Server Pages Cooker (PSPCooker) > > "PSPCooker is a new template engine for PHP, that mimics Sun's JSP > functionality. External template files (static HTML files) are compiled > into PHP files when requested. Then and on subsequent requests, the > generated PHP files are executed. PSPCooker is able to detect when a HTML > source file has been modified and will recompile the associated PHP file > automatically." Do you have a link? _______________________________________________ binarycloud-dev mailing list bin...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-05-02 23:27:37
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> This is what Smarty has been doing for a while. I'm inclined to use smarty because I respect it's author. in any case, the TemplateManager won't care about what kind of templates you like, as all of the actual template processing will be done by subclasses the use a generalized api. _a -- alex black, ceo en...@tu... the turing studio, inc. http://www.turingstudio.com vox+510.666.0074 fax+510.666.0093 |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-05-03 00:09:35
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> I'm inclined to use smarty because I respect it's author.
^^^
egh, its.
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From: Benjamin D. S. <be...@be...> - 2001-05-03 01:14:48
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As a long time user of PHPLIB templates, is there really that much of a performance increase using smarty or other "compiled" template program? -Ben On Wednesday 02 May 2001 16:16, you wrote: > This is what Smarty has been doing for a while. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Luke Francl [mailto:fra...@tc...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:41 PM > To: bin...@li... > Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] the xsl decision > > On Wed, 2 May 2001, Peter Bowyer wrote: > > Have a look at a new PHP template engine that appeared in the last couple > > of weeks: PHP Server Pages Cooker (PSPCooker) > > > > "PSPCooker is a new template engine for PHP, that mimics Sun's JSP > > functionality. External template files (static HTML files) are compiled > > into PHP files when requested. Then and on subsequent requests, the > > generated PHP files are executed. PSPCooker is able to detect when a HTML > > source file has been modified and will recompile the associated PHP file > > automatically." > > Do you have a link? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > binarycloud-dev mailing list > bin...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev > > _______________________________________________ > binarycloud-dev mailing list > bin...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev -- "Life is short. Live it!" |
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From: alex b. <en...@tu...> - 2001-05-03 04:55:23
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yes, there is > As a long time user of PHPLIB templates, is there really that much of a > performance increase using smarty or other "compiled" template program? |
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From: Blake B. <Bla...@De...> - 2001-05-03 18:03:37
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We noticed in the neighborhood of 30% increase in overall speed. With some pages getting as much as 125% increase in speed. (there were special cirumstances why this happened.. I don't recall what they were.) * Blake -----Original Message----- From: alex black [mailto:en...@tu...] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 9:53 PM To: bin...@li... Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] the xsl decision yes, there is > As a long time user of PHPLIB templates, is there really that much of a > performance increase using smarty or other "compiled" template program? _______________________________________________ binarycloud-dev mailing list bin...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev |
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From: Faine, M. <Mar...@ms...> - 2001-05-04 12:44:39
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How hard is it to set up binary cloud on my hosted box. I have no root access but I do have ssh access. It's running on a site hosted by http://www.phpwebhosting.com -Mark |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-05-04 18:04:09
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> How hard is it to set up binary cloud on my hosted box. I have no root > access but I do have ssh access. assuming that the apache global php.ini has the right settings (allow_call_time_pass_by_reference = On, etc) you can run .htaccess with the prepend directives instead of putting them in httpd.conf, and everything else should be essentially the same. the "no access to php.ini" thing can be a problem in certain circumstances if you don't have any ability to request changes. if you see errors related to allow call time pass by reference, you need to get the provider to modify their php.ini _alex -- alex black, ceo en...@tu... the turing studio, inc. http://www.turingstudio.com vox+510.666.0074 fax+510.666.0093 |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-05-01 18:26:32
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> Without simplicity for the "dumb" web developer you'll lose marketability. > Smarty has been working quite well for us, the speed is excellent. We get Which is why I have note made a decision to ditch parsed templates. However, with XSL, you gain a _huge_ range of capabilities that are not available from parsed templates. (think on the fly PDFs, etc) > complex page renders in 0.02-0.8 seconds, with multiple DB queries. We > never could have finished our site within deadlines without an extremely > simple template system. Smarty has both the simplicity and the required > level of sophisication to offer a good solution to anyone, especially since > you can define your own tag delimiters and basically add anything that is > required by a specific installation. (Smarty.addons.php is nice for this.) > > There may be other superior technologies and more well-defined > specifications but the simplicity is the selling feature of a template > system IMHO. Have you used XSL? _alex -- alex black, ceo en...@tu... the turing studio, inc. http://www.turingstudio.com vox+510.666.0074 fax+510.666.0093 |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-05-01 18:34:34
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I think it's worth clarifying that the TemplateManager will use subclasses for each template type - so like almost everything else in binarycloud, there's nothing that _prevents_ anyone from doing anything they want. What I'm talking about with regard to XSLT and the like is, will _I_ be using this in production, i.e. do I need to build this code for myself? The answer is increasingly no where parsed templates are concerned, especially in light of a few other projects that are part of r2. When I'm done with the r2 specs (which should be quite soon, despite their condition on the site) - I'm going to see what kind of support there is on this list and in the community for building some of these advanced tools, including an XSLT->PHP makefile, Smarty extensions to the TemplateManager, etc. Once the specs are done, the full power of the system will be evident (hm, did I steal that from darth vader, or was it the scary old general guy running the death star). anyway: the idea with the managers, and indeed all of the subsystems in binarycloud is that they should make the most basic assumptions they can to get a cohesive system functioning - so people can work within the system (benefiting from all the tools, etc.) without it getting in their way. /rant _alex -- alex black, ceo en...@tu... the turing studio, inc. http://www.turingstudio.com vox+510.666.0074 fax+510.666.0093 |
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