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From: Peter B. <re...@f2...> - 2001-08-15 07:35:34
|
At 05:16 PM 8/14/01 -0400, you wrote: >Dont be such a wimp Peter, the worst that'll happen is you'll learn >something. Yes I realise I'll learn something... however, I have 7.6 GB of data on my HD and only backups of 500Mb, so I can't afford to lose it :-) I also do not have a working knowledge of the Registry, so it hinders me a little (!) if I need to fix something :-( >Seriously though, its easy and if you mess up its easy to fix. >I've installed it several times, and its hasn't done anything to my machine. I'll give it a go when I've got 3-4 hours to download the components (11Mb I think you said??) Peter. ---oOo--- Do you sendcard? PHP e-card script supporting 9 databases! http://www.sendcard.f2s.com/ ---oOo--- |
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From: Phillip S. <te...@al...> - 2001-08-15 05:10:16
|
Greetings. I've been lurking on this list for awhile now, and have an interest in BC's capabilities. I consider myself to be an intermediate PHP developer, and am contemplating the possibility of using r2 as the framework for a project. Specifically, there is an existing open source project [ Ministry of Truth - http://mot.sourceforge.net ] that is no longer being actively maintained. I am giving serious thought to picking up development because I've not found any other software that fills the same niche, and because I've spoken with the original author who has encouraged me to do so. The problem with this is that I am not comfortable with the way its idea/essence is currently implemented, and would really want to rebuild it from the ground up (the TODO and feature list is long, and it seems pointless to try re-inventing the wheel with what's there). For those that don't care to visit the website, MOT currently allows one to group db tables/fields relationally into larger more useful things (e.g project tracking, hardware/software inventory, etc.), all without having to know anything about html/php/sql (given that it was originally written in 1998 and includes its own built-in XML parser, it's still an impressive and usable piece of software). r2 would appear to be a candidate for a new MOT framework (other possibilites might be Horde [ http://www.horde.org/ ]), but I have concerns about how to create a distributable "product" based on it (MOT will continue to be strictly GPL, of course). I'm having difficulty envisoning how I would incorporate it in such a way as to minimize the setup requirements for my user base. For some, getting Apache and PHP installed is enough of a hurdle (not everyone uses .rpm or .deb based systems). Would I say "you need Apache, PHP (plus all it's special dependencies), and r2 .. after you fight with that, you use MOT as a plug-in", or is there a recommended way I could easily encapsulate r2's overhead into my configuration system? I would like to be able to say "Here's MOT. Run the installer." once they have met the Apache/PHP requirement. Second, how viable is r2 as a development platform right now? Obviously it's still under heavy development, but is it becoming mature enough to start building production-quality applications? I expect that it will take me a few weeks to spec out what I will include as part of the initial rewrite of MOT (its existing functionality plus a subset of the TODO), so my question is more focused on the "stable" parts of r2. In other words, which components of MOT can I concentrate on re-implementing now using the least changing parts of r2? The website/documentation doesn't give a clear indication of what's complete and what's not.. guess I can always dive in and find out though. Looking at the mailing list archives, I see that some of my questions are answered (lots of recommendations from Alex to use r2 over r1 at this point). The recent "BC quick-start guide" thread is helpful, but I don't see anyone trying to use BC for something like this (most uses seem to be for custom website projects rather than a self-contained, portable web application). Correct me if I'm wrong. Just to be clear, I'm not in a major hurry here. If I was, then I would go ahead and consider r1 and worry about the conversion issues later. I get the feeling though that I will be able to plan my goals around r2's development cycle, and that enough of r2 is complete now. It would be helpful to have some idea on the overall status and usability of specific r2 sections (documentation on all this once r2 is finished is great, but I would still like to start developing now), and I would appreciate general feedback from anyone who is currently using it to do productive things. Thanks in advance (I tried getting subscribed to bc-general to post this there instead, but sourceforge seems to be eating my confirmations at the moment). Also, the BC website still states that bc-dev is for dev and support. Apologies if this isn't the best place for my inquiry. -phillip ----------------------------------------------------------------- UNIX Systems Administrator *windowmaker.org site maintainer ----------------------------------------------------------------- |
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From: Peter B. <re...@f2...> - 2001-08-15 02:16:06
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At 09:20 AM 8/14/01 -0700, you wrote: >Oh, no, it uses its own doc and app root, it's just like running an >application. I've installed it a few times and it's totally benign. > >I would be _really_ surprised if it did anything to your machine, because >cygwin just doesn't need to mess with the system that much. It probably >doesn't even install any DLLs. OK, I think I'll have a go :-) Just don't have enough disks available to make backups of all important files, so have to proceed very carefully... Have you thought about installing a web front to the CVS? Chora, the new one from Horde.org looks very nice - they are now using it on cvs.php.net and very good it is too. Cheers! Peter. --oOo-- Narrow Gauge on the web - photos, directory and forums! http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk --oOo-- Peter's web page - Scottish narrow gauge in 009 http://members.aol.com/reywob/ --oOo-- |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-15 01:38:38
|
hi all,
I just commited and will soon sync to sf cvs:
-The Page class can now do "static" module output. Ok, what the hell are
you talking about? :) static module output is an embedded call in markup
that loads and outputs the given modules. My intent is for users to be able
to define binarycloud pages in xml like this:
<page>
<init>
...
</init>
<templates>
...
</templates>
<markup>
<p align="right">
<bc:module name="HelloWorld" package="hello_world" id="module_id">
<param:any_api_param>value</param:any_api_param>
</bc:module>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%">
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<bc:module name="Example" package="example_package" id="module_id">
<param:any_api_param>value</param:any_api_param>
</bc:module>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<bc:module name="OtherWorld" package="hello_world" id="module_id">
<param:any_api_param>value</param:any_api_param>
</bc:module>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<hr>
</markup>
</page>
or like this:
<page>
<init>
<ini>true</ini>
<auth>false</auth>
<perm>false</perm>
<sess>true</sess>
<lang>true</lang>
<cache>true</cache>
</init>
<templates>
<default>
<name>exmaple_master</name>
<package>html.masters</package>
<type>html</type>
</default>
</templates>
<modules>
<content>
<layout>
<name>exmaple_layout</name>
<package>html.layouts</package>
</layout>
<load>
<module>
<id>product_list</id>
<name>ProductLister</name>
<package>user.mod.products</package>
<load_order>1</load_order>
<params>
<example>this is an option value</example>
<another>1</another>
</params>
</module>
<module>
<id>product_delete</id>
<name>DeleteProduct</name>
<package>user.mod.products</package>
<load_order>2</load_order>
</module>
</load>
</content>
</modules>
</page>
In the first example, you'll see there there is still a basic page
definition: core components, a master template, etc - but notice that there
is no modules array, and there is _markup_ in the page definition. Then,
have a look at <bc:module> tags - these will be interpreted (I say will,
because I haven't done that yet) at make-time into this:
<? $Page->BuildModule(array('name' => 'HelloWorld','package' =>
'hello_world','id' => 'first_one')); ?>
etc.
You can have a look at user/htdocs/static_module.php for an idea.
I like this syntax because it allows non-programmer users to define pages
and embed modules without worrying about php syntax - they use familiar tags
to call in modules that programmers provide.
Why is this worthwhile?
It means you can forego using layouts and module lists if you don't need the
advanced features page offers (load/init ordering, etc) - and it's obviously
convenient for embedding modules _anywhere_ (yes, you could embed one
module's output in another module's output!)
Oh yeah, I also made sure that these "new style pages" are cacheable
(user/htdocs/static_module.php is cached, for example)
I'm sure there will be questions on this, fire away!
:)
_alex
--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...
the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com
vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093
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From: Alby L. <al...@th...> - 2001-08-14 21:16:34
|
Dont be such a wimp Peter, the worst that'll happen is you'll learn something. Seriously though, its easy and if you mess up its easy to fix. I've installed it several times, and its hasn't done anything to my machine. Alby ----- Original Message ----- From: "alex black" <en...@tu...> To: <bin...@li...> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] Using CVS for r2 > > I'm scared of installing cygwin in case it mucks up my computer. Has > > anyone on the list had any problems?? > > > > Thanks, > > Peter. > > Oh, no, it uses its own doc and app root, it's just like running an > application. I've installed it a few times and it's totally benign. > > I would be _really_ surprised if it did anything to your machine, because > cygwin just doesn't need to mess with the system that much. It probably > doesn't even install any DLLs. > > best, > > _alex > > > > _______________________________________________ > binarycloud-dev mailing list > bin...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev > |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-14 19:59:24
|
>>> try cygwin, it is a quite good UNIX env running in Win32 box... >> I'm scared of installing cygwin in case it mucks up my computer. Has >> anyone on the list had any problems?? > With cygwin? Not really, the system itself works quite fine here (NT). But > it does not work properly with WinCVS. Winvcs launches cmd.exe for executing > the ssh command. And so you need the ssh.exe file for win. The one for > cygwin won't work 'caus it requires posix style paths, homedire etc, that > are only available with cygwin/bash. but what about _not_ using wincvs at all with cygwin, just using command-line cvs co -P pserver:... blah I haven't dried that (um, maybe I should) but it should work.. but yeah, I'm definitely voting for "or should I just get a linux box?" :) _alex |
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From: Andreas A. <a.a...@th...> - 2001-08-14 19:39:55
|
Hi Peter, Gerry, > Andreas posted a very good beginners guide to WinCVS on this mailing list > which which worked for a bit, but then it wouldn't. And SF is using ssh to interface cvs, it's even more confusing with wincvs. There is a very good starter guide at sf (docs) and some notes using wincvs. There is also a setup utility for win to setup wincvs for sf projects. > Any other CVS tools you can suggest? Apart from getting a Linux > machine... Hehe ;) I don't know other good tools. Under unix tkcvs is really cool. And tcl/tk is available under win too, maybe it runs under windoze too - but I never tried .. If you're willing to learn some parameter switchtes possibly the best way to go is with plain command line and EmacsNT. That's how I ended up under win. I attached the former "tutorial". But it's a bit out of date and it's base is pserver not ssh. Andi |
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From: Andreas A. <a.a...@th...> - 2001-08-14 19:39:44
|
Hi Peter, > >try cygwin, it is a quite good UNIX env running in Win32 box... > I'm scared of installing cygwin in case it mucks up my computer. Has > anyone on the list had any problems?? With cygwin? Not really, the system itself works quite fine here (NT). But it does not work properly with WinCVS. Winvcs launches cmd.exe for executing the ssh command. And so you need the ssh.exe file for win. The one for cygwin won't work 'caus it requires posix style paths, homedire etc, that are only available with cygwin/bash. So you have to have the ssh.exe cvs.exe etc for win seperately. I dont like that. If you can find a way entirely replacing cmd.exe with the cygwin bashloginshellstuff it might work. I'm not sure how to safely replace cmd.exe with the bash stuff. A few years ago it was possible to replace this with a shell called 4NT, 4OS2 4DOS etc. So replacing it with cygwin should be possible. Andi |
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From: TAO R. <ron...@ho...> - 2001-08-14 16:36:39
|
> > Same here :-) > > WinCVS seems to have a life of its own, it is not intuitive and the > > documentation is out of date :-( > > > > Andreas posted a very good beginners guide to WinCVS on this mailing list > > which which worked for a bit, but then it wouldn't. > > > > Any other CVS tools you can suggest? Apart from getting a Linux >machine... >heh... that wouldn't hurt.. :_) > >You can download cvs as part of the cygwin package for windows, and use it >on the command line just like you do on linux. > >you can look in r2/INFO for anonymous cvs access info. > >If you need instructions for WinCVS, Ronald's the man, as I have zero >experience with it. > >best, > >_alex > I don't have any experience with WinCVS too, conz I always get lost when I wanna to play with it....... and actually cygwin done quite well so why don't you guys try to play with cygwin... :) roni _________________________________________________________________ 在 http://explorer.msn.com.tw/intl.asp 免費下載 MSN Explorer |
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From: alex b. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-14 16:23:25
|
> I'm scared of installing cygwin in case it mucks up my computer. Has > anyone on the list had any problems?? > > Thanks, > Peter. Oh, no, it uses its own doc and app root, it's just like running an application. I've installed it a few times and it's totally benign. I would be _really_ surprised if it did anything to your machine, because cygwin just doesn't need to mess with the system that much. It probably doesn't even install any DLLs. best, _alex |
|
From: alex b. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-14 16:22:07
|
> Same here :-) > WinCVS seems to have a life of its own, it is not intuitive and the > documentation is out of date :-( > > Andreas posted a very good beginners guide to WinCVS on this mailing list > which which worked for a bit, but then it wouldn't. > > Any other CVS tools you can suggest? Apart from getting a Linux machine... heh... that wouldn't hurt.. :_) You can download cvs as part of the cygwin package for windows, and use it on the command line just like you do on linux. you can look in r2/INFO for anonymous cvs access info. If you need instructions for WinCVS, Ronald's the man, as I have zero experience with it. best, _alex |
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From: alex b. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-14 16:18:13
|
I will add it back, I accidentally killed it in the sync. thanks for pointing that out ronald :) _a ----- Original Message ----- From: "TAO Ronald" <ron...@ho...> To: <bin...@li...> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] Using CVS for r2 > >I'm willing to get the latest cvs source, but I've never used cvs. > >Any tips > >or references to docs for setting it up? I have downloaded WinCVS, > >but I'm > >a bit confused on how to use it to access the binarycloud cvs > >repository. > > > >Thanks, > >Gerry > > > Gerry, > > I suggest you to have a look one this first.... > the installation tutorial on Win32 > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/binarycloud/r2/INSTALL.WIN= 32? rev=3D1.5&content-type=3Dtext/vnd.viewcvs-markup > > but it seem that this copy losing the file list of cygwin... > if you want the list, you can trace back form the mailling list > > happy hacking :) > > roni > > _________________________________________________________________ > =A6b http://explorer.msn.com.tw/intl.asp =A7K=B6O=A4U=B8=FC MSN Explore= r > > > _______________________________________________ > binarycloud-dev mailing list > bin...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev > |
|
From: alex b. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-14 16:17:20
|
> I'd like some help in determining if BinaryCloud is ideal for the projects
> I'll be developing. Most of the stuff I'll be doing is not large. The
> largest project will be to build a system to manage information on
partners
> of our NGO. Each partner will have a profile, i.e. basic background
> information. Next, there will be information about the relationship
between
> each partner and us, i.e. a project. For each project or for a group of
> projects, there will be evaluation criteria to determine how well the
> project(s) succeeded.
>
> One example of how this system would be used is for the Agriculture
> program. They work with thousands of farmers. Each farmer will have a
> profile containing family, health, economic data. Each year, information
> will be entered on projects to improve the farmer's health and economic
> situation, e.g., growing a high-yield rice crop.
Cool, and without even knowing more I can tell you that R2 with
EntityManager will save you untold amounts of time :)
> There will be a ton 'o data collected that needs to be assessed so we can
> determine what factor mix will most benefit the farmers, in terms of land,
> crop selection, investment, time to harvest, etc. Staff will be able to
ask
> lots of scenario and what-if questions.
>
> So, I'm looking for a framework that will help our small project team,
> which is just getting its feet wet in PHP web development, build such a
> system and others on a smaller scale (e.g., an inventory management
system).
>
> Is BinaryCloud overkill, or if not, what are the main benefits of going
> with bc?
first, bs is not overkill. it provides you with a rich toolset for building
applications that you would otherwise have to cobble together from disparate
projects or build yourself. it is a bit heavy if you're new to php, i.e.
fully OO, etc - but you can get used to that fairly quickly if you have
other programming experience.
the benefits:
-modular, structured code
-system documentation will be part of your codebase if you adhere to the
comment standards (trust me, having auto-generated documentation is soooo
nice :)
-powerful tools for managing large datasets.
-table (list) & form builders for auto-generating forms based on your
record types.
-continuing expansion and revision of the system.
for example, you could build a single module that was responsible for
presenting 'farmer info' under different circumstances: a list of farmers,
or a farmer detail, or a form for editing a farmer's information. - all in
one module, which would accept a paramter for the 'mode' to use.
tools like these don't exist anywhere else in the php community.
best,
_alex
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From: Peter B. <re...@f2...> - 2001-08-14 13:01:37
|
At 08:53 PM 8/14/01 +0800, you wrote: >try cygwin, it is a quite good UNIX env running in Win32 box... I'm scared of installing cygwin in case it mucks up my computer. Has anyone on the list had any problems?? Thanks, Peter. ---oOo--- Do you sendcard? http://www.sendcard.f2s.com/ PHP postcard script supporting 9 databases! ---oOo--- |
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From: TAO R. <ron...@ho...> - 2001-08-14 12:53:11
|
>At 12:12 PM 8/14/01 -0700, you wrote: >>I have downloaded WinCVS, but I'm a bit confused on how to use it >>to >>access the binarycloud cvs repository. > >Same here :-) >WinCVS seems to have a life of its own, it is not intuitive and the >documentation is out of date :-( > >Andreas posted a very good beginners guide to WinCVS on this mailing >list >which which worked for a bit, but then it wouldn't. > >Any other CVS tools you can suggest? Apart from getting a Linux >machine... > >Thanks, >Peter. > try cygwin, it is a quite good UNIX env running in Win32 box... roni _________________________________________________________________ 在 http://explorer.msn.com.tw/intl.asp 免費下載 MSN Explorer |
|
From: Peter B. <re...@f2...> - 2001-08-14 12:41:07
|
At 12:12 PM 8/14/01 -0700, you wrote: >I have downloaded WinCVS, but I'm a bit confused on how to use it to >access the binarycloud cvs repository. Same here :-) WinCVS seems to have a life of its own, it is not intuitive and the documentation is out of date :-( Andreas posted a very good beginners guide to WinCVS on this mailing list which which worked for a bit, but then it wouldn't. Any other CVS tools you can suggest? Apart from getting a Linux machine... Thanks, Peter. --oOo-- Narrow Gauge on the web - photos, directory and forums! http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk --oOo-- Peter's web page - Scottish narrow gauge in 009 http://members.aol.com/reywob/ --oOo-- |
|
From: TAO R. <ron...@ho...> - 2001-08-14 10:33:03
|
>I'm willing to get the latest cvs source, but I've never used cvs. >Any tips >or references to docs for setting it up? I have downloaded WinCVS, >but I'm >a bit confused on how to use it to access the binarycloud cvs >repository. > >Thanks, >Gerry > Gerry, I suggest you to have a look one this first.... the installation tutorial on Win32 http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/binarycloud/r2/INSTALL.WIN32?rev=1.5&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup but it seem that this copy losing the file list of cygwin... if you want the list, you can trace back form the mailling list happy hacking :) roni _________________________________________________________________ 在 http://explorer.msn.com.tw/intl.asp 免費下載 MSN Explorer |
|
From: Gerry K. <ge...@mc...> - 2001-08-14 09:02:57
|
Hi, I'd like some help in determining if BinaryCloud is ideal for the projects I'll be developing. Most of the stuff I'll be doing is not large. The largest project will be to build a system to manage information on partners of our NGO. Each partner will have a profile, i.e. basic background information. Next, there will be information about the relationship between each partner and us, i.e. a project. For each project or for a group of projects, there will be evaluation criteria to determine how well the project(s) succeeded. One example of how this system would be used is for the Agriculture program. They work with thousands of farmers. Each farmer will have a profile containing family, health, economic data. Each year, information will be entered on projects to improve the farmer's health and economic situation, e.g., growing a high-yield rice crop. There will be a ton 'o data collected that needs to be assessed so we can determine what factor mix will most benefit the farmers, in terms of land, crop selection, investment, time to harvest, etc. Staff will be able to ask lots of scenario and what-if questions. So, I'm looking for a framework that will help our small project team, which is just getting its feet wet in PHP web development, build such a system and others on a smaller scale (e.g., an inventory management system). Is BinaryCloud overkill, or if not, what are the main benefits of going with bc? TIA, Gerry |
|
From: Gerry K. <ge...@mc...> - 2001-08-14 09:02:39
|
I'm willing to get the latest cvs source, but I've never used cvs. Any tips or references to docs for setting it up? I have downloaded WinCVS, but I'm a bit confused on how to use it to access the binarycloud cvs repository. Thanks, Gerry |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-13 23:50:11
|
> Yup, please upload it. Thanks and let me know if I can help in way to make > xml2php functional. > > Andris Spruds hi Andris, I have done a sync, and the file is there: binarycloud/base/lib/XMLUtils.php I suggest you try with some simple xml array examples first, maybe in isolation from the make system. after that, I'll pass on some more complex stuff. _do_not_ bother using the current bcp.xml sample in user/htdocs/ because it is _really_ old. I'm going to update it as soon as you have something working :) best, _alex |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-13 18:55:27
|
anyone want a mail alias at binarycloud.com ? :) anyone who has commited files to CVS is welcome to one. send me a (private) email with the alias you would like and the target address: alias: al...@bi... target: en...@tu... ") _alex -- alex black, ceo en...@tu... the turing studio, inc. http://www.turingstudio.com vox+510.666.0074 fax+510.666.0093 |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-13 18:34:00
|
> At 11:41 AM 09/08/01 -0700, you wrote: >>> At 10:34 PM 08/08/01 -0700, you wrote: >>> >> >> oh yes, >> >> edit user/conf/file_permissions.conf - remove the whitespace at the end of >> the file. > > There was only one blank line at the end of the file, which I deleted - why > would this be a problem? Because it's sent as output to the browser, which is expecting a header. >> also, in prepend, comment out the breakcrumbs_and_tabs.lib > > Done. > >> _a > > However, I still get a blank screen. This has been a very disappointing > start, so far. I don't have much more time to evaluate this dev framework, > I'm afraid. Don't bother with r1. You're looking at old code with old instructions - I suggest you download the current r2 cvs snapshot and set that up. best, _alex > Regards, > Gerry |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-13 18:32:18
|
> I'm in the process of trying to get r1 working. I'm just wondering though, > how much work will it be to migrate an application developed with r1 to r2? > How soon will r2 be released? Don't write an app with r1, you're better off writing apps within r2. Portions of r2 are "out" already, including the page render pipeline. If you need things from r1 you can just bring them over into r2 :) _alex > Thanks, > Gerry |
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From: Alex B. <en...@tu...> - 2001-08-13 18:28:41
|
xml2php is a tool that 'makes' xml array structures into php array structures. the idea is to keep all the 'ease of use' of xml, without the runtime overhead of parsing it. :) _a > This project sounds interesting. I'd like to know more about xml2php. > > Gerry > > > _______________________________________________ > binarycloud-dev mailing list > bin...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev > |
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From: Andris S. <li...@ap...> - 2001-08-13 17:35:59
|
> > 2) The use of XMLUtils library in xml2php.php- do you have such > library > > already (if so, where can I download it), or are you going to start and > > create it from the beginning? > > It exists, I'll put it in CVS if you'd like to play around with it :) Yup, please upload it. Thanks and let me know if I can help in way to make xml2php functional. Andris Spruds |
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