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From: Christian B. <cb...@ce...> - 2012-06-16 09:08:11
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Hi! At last some action here. :-) I agree that for a project with so few active developers CVS should still be sufficient. But if it helps people working on the code I will gladly convert the CVS repository to git and put it on GitHub (and shut down the CVS). However, due to time constraints I won't always be able to respond to pull requests or review patches myself, so I'd place the main liability for keeping the repository up-to-date on Alexei if that's OK. My main concern is what to do with the files shared between B2 and SS. I guess the best starting point would be to put both projects into a single repository, including the symlinks, and eventually rework the directory layout later? As far as the crappy GTK prefs editor is concerned: If I was starting from scratch I'd implement it with Qt (in C++, not with Designer) and make it work on all supported host platforms. The current code was originally a quick'n'dirty port of the BeOS UI... Bye, Christian -- / Physics is an algorithm \/ www.cebix.net |
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From: Alexander v. G. <kal...@un...> - 2012-06-16 14:41:53
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On 16.06.2012 04:08, Christian Bauer wrote: > Hi! > > At last some action here. :-) > > I agree that for a project with so few active developers CVS should > still be sufficient. But if it helps people working on the code I will > gladly convert the CVS repository to git and put it on GitHub (and shut > down the CVS). Don't even have to use git... Subversion, Mercurial, all good choices. I simply am using git because it is a little more 'unixy' then Mercurial. > My main concern is what to do with the files shared between B2 and SS. I > guess the best starting point would be to put both projects into a > single repository, including the symlinks, and eventually rework the > directory layout later? I think that would be a positive thing. While I can easily see the reasoning behind using the symlink scripts, given the "mature" state of each codebase the current commits are minimal. I'd vote to do as you said for sheepshaver and keep B2 as-is. Maybe someday SS could do what B2 does and then you could drop B2 completely :) > As far as the crappy GTK prefs editor is concerned: If I was starting > from scratch I'd implement it with Qt (in C++, not with Designer) and > make it work on all supported host platforms. The current code was > originally a quick'n'dirty port of the BeOS UI... Haha, yeah. It's pretty easy to tell that not a lot has changed from a necessity standpoint (SS is mature, and the current pref editor "works") I actually have SheepShear compiling now on Haiku as of last night, however linking is another story :) -- Alex |
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From: Alexei S. <ale...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 15:36:10
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I am okay with switching to git, since it seems developers prefer it these days to SVN. (I've not fully embraced git myself since most stuff I work on is still using SVN and it suits my needs, but by all means let's go with git if that's what people like - and would give me an excuse to actually use/learn it.) Do any other open source projects use GitHub for their master copy? Does it make sense to also move our docs to their wikis and use their bug tracker? Anyone have any experience with that? Alternatively, we can go with Google Code, which also supports git and provides a wiki and an issue tracker (with which I'm more familiar with). (And since it's git, people can still use GitHub for their own forks and pull requests, etc.) Any opinions? -Alexei On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Alexander von Gluck <kal...@un... > wrote: > On 16.06.2012 04:08, Christian Bauer wrote: > > Hi! > > > > At last some action here. :-) > > > > I agree that for a project with so few active developers CVS should > > still be sufficient. But if it helps people working on the code I will > > gladly convert the CVS repository to git and put it on GitHub (and shut > > down the CVS). > > Don't even have to use git... Subversion, Mercurial, all good choices. > I simply am using git because it is a little more 'unixy' then Mercurial. > > > My main concern is what to do with the files shared between B2 and SS. I > > guess the best starting point would be to put both projects into a > > single repository, including the symlinks, and eventually rework the > > directory layout later? > > I think that would be a positive thing. While I can easily see the > reasoning > behind using the symlink scripts, given the "mature" state of each codebase > the current commits are minimal. > > I'd vote to do as you said for sheepshaver and keep B2 as-is. Maybe someday > SS could do what B2 does and then you could drop B2 completely :) > > > As far as the crappy GTK prefs editor is concerned: If I was starting > > from scratch I'd implement it with Qt (in C++, not with Designer) and > > make it work on all supported host platforms. The current code was > > originally a quick'n'dirty port of the BeOS UI... > > Haha, yeah. It's pretty easy to tell that not a lot has changed from a > necessity standpoint (SS is mature, and the current pref editor "works") > > I actually have SheepShear compiling now on Haiku as of last > night, however linking is another story :) > > -- Alex > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > basilisk-devel mailing list > bas...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/basilisk-devel > |
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From: Giulio P. <giu...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 16:47:30
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Il 16/06/2012 17:35, Alexei Svitkine ha scritto: > I am okay with switching to git, since it seems developers prefer it > these days to SVN. (I've not fully embraced git myself since most stuff > I work on is still using SVN and it suits my needs, but by all means > let's go with git if that's what people like - and would give me an > excuse to actually use/learn it.) > > Do any other open source projects use GitHub for their master copy? Does > it make sense to also move our docs to their wikis and use their bug > tracker? Anyone have any experience with that? I know of this project: https://github.com/marytts/marytts/ that is using github as its main development platform. If one decides to use git, using all the features of github is a very good option in my opinion, because all the provided features integrate very well with git. The drawback (missing feature) of github is that the whole interface is very developer oriented and projects are missing a real main page. it is one of the best option for developers, but non-developers users may be confused (e.g., where should I download the software releases? hint: there is a link called Downloads, but it is not very visible). If it is possible to update this page: http://sheepshaver.cebix.net/ with references to github pages, I think there is no need for other source farms. > Alternatively, we can go with Google Code, which also supports git and > provides a wiki and an issue tracker (with which I'm more familiar > with). (And since it's git, people can still use GitHub for their own > forks and pull requests, etc.) One of the main features of github that you are going to miss is that it allows to "centralize" development. That is you can track the work of your contributors with the "Network graph" (e.g., https://github.com/marytts/marytts/network) and your developers community with the "Network members" (e.g., https://github.com/marytts/marytts/network/members). This works outside git, spanning several git repositories that has been cloned using what github calls a "Fork". Bests, Giulio. > On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Alexander von Gluck > <kal...@un... <mailto:kal...@un...>> wrote: > > On 16.06.2012 04:08, Christian Bauer wrote: > > Hi! > > > > At last some action here. :-) > > > > I agree that for a project with so few active developers CVS should > > still be sufficient. But if it helps people working on the code I will > > gladly convert the CVS repository to git and put it on GitHub (and > shut > > down the CVS). > > Don't even have to use git... Subversion, Mercurial, all good choices. > I simply am using git because it is a little more 'unixy' then > Mercurial. > > > My main concern is what to do with the files shared between B2 and > SS. I > > guess the best starting point would be to put both projects into a > > single repository, including the symlinks, and eventually rework the > > directory layout later? > > I think that would be a positive thing. While I can easily see the > reasoning > behind using the symlink scripts, given the "mature" state of each > codebase > the current commits are minimal. > > I'd vote to do as you said for sheepshaver and keep B2 as-is. Maybe > someday > SS could do what B2 does and then you could drop B2 completely :) > > > As far as the crappy GTK prefs editor is concerned: If I was starting > > from scratch I'd implement it with Qt (in C++, not with Designer) and > > make it work on all supported host platforms. The current code was > > originally a quick'n'dirty port of the BeOS UI... > > Haha, yeah. It's pretty easy to tell that not a lot has changed from a > necessity standpoint (SS is mature, and the current pref editor "works") > > I actually have SheepShear compiling now on Haiku as of last > night, however linking is another story :) > > -- Alex > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. > Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in > malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > basilisk-devel mailing list > bas...@li... > <mailto:bas...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/basilisk-devel > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > basilisk-devel mailing list > bas...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/basilisk-devel |
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From: Charles S. <bas...@ch...> - 2012-06-16 16:27:54
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On Jun 16, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Alexander von Gluck wrote: > I'd vote to do as you said for sheepshaver and keep B2 as-is. Maybe someday > SS could do what B2 does and then you could drop B2 completely :) I disagree with this one. Basilisk II is quite useful for running late 68k Mac stuff, and it would be a shame for it not to pick up any improvements that get made to the shared code. Charles |
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From: Robert M. <mr...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 19:58:43
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Yes, we need Bas2, it's the only way to run System 6 and older System 7s, and they're the only way to run a lot of cool stuff (including much that I wrote myself and have a fondness for :-) On 6/16/12, Charles Srstka <bas...@ch...> wrote: > On Jun 16, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Alexander von Gluck wrote: > I disagree with this one. Basilisk II is quite useful for running late 68k > Mac stuff, and it would be a shame for it not to pick up any improvements > that get made to the shared code. -- Robert Munafo -- mrob.com Follow me at: gplus.to/mrob - fb.com/mrob27 - twitter.com/mrob_27 - mrob27.wordpress.com - youtube.com/user/mrob143 - rilybot.blogspot.com |
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From: Frank T. <fra...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 16:35:33
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On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Charles Srstka < bas...@ch...> wrote: > On Jun 16, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Alexander von Gluck wrote: > > I'd vote to do as you said for sheepshaver and keep B2 as-is. Maybe someday > SS could do what B2 does and then you could drop B2 completely :) > > > I disagree with this one. Basilisk II is quite useful for running late 68k > Mac stuff, and it would be a shame for it not to pick up any improvements > that get made to the shared code. > > And Basilisk II seems to be a bit more flexible about the memory model . > Charles > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > basilisk-devel mailing list > bas...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/basilisk-devel > > |
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From: Robert M. <mr...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 20:09:19
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Also, Basilisk II's 680x0 emulation is waaaaaay faster than SheepShaver running Apple's 68K emulation. Sometimes it's even faster than a PowerPC version of the same program running on SheepShaver. Here are some benchmarks for my Mandelbrot program, showing floating-point performance of IEEE 32-bit and 64-bit floating-point add/subtract/multiply. All are on the same 2.2 GHz Nehalem Core i7: BasiliskII's JIT compiler running a 68K native version of the program: Single precision: 227 MFLOPs/sec Double precision: 55.2 MFLOPs/sec SheepShaver running a PowerPC native version of the app: Single precision: 148 MFLOPs/sec Double precision: 164 MFLOPs/sec SheepShaver's JIT compiler running Apple's 68K emulator, running the 68K version of the program and using SANE library for floating point: Single precision: 0.74 MFLOPs/sec Double precision: 0.69 MFLOPs/sec >> I disagree with this one. Basilisk II is quite useful for running late >> 68k Mac stuff, and it would be a shame for it not to pick up any improvements >> that get made to the shared code. >> >> And Basilisk II seems to be a bit more flexible about the memory model . -- Robert Munafo -- mrob.com Follow me at: gplus.to/mrob - fb.com/mrob27 - twitter.com/mrob_27 - mrob27.wordpress.com - youtube.com/user/mrob143 - rilybot.blogspot.com |
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From: Robert M. <mr...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 17:05:53
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Regarding the symlinks, I think it's important to keep as much code shared as possible. I don't care as much about whether that's done with symlinks, or in the more standard way with a single directory tree with shared files and two build targets. Either way I still have to read a README to find out how to build it, and how to get the result running, and that's not going to change. On the prefs editor issue, I couldn't care less. I've used both GUI versions (there's a Mac-specific one, that some of you may have used) as well as editing the textfile directly. Once again, you have to RTFM to know how to set your prefs, and the task of actually setting them is insignificant by comparison. On 6/16/12, Christian Bauer <cb...@ce...> wrote: > [...] > My main concern is what to do with the files shared between B2 and SS. I > guess the best starting point would be to put both projects into a > single repository, including the symlinks, and eventually rework the > directory layout later? > > As far as the crappy GTK prefs editor is concerned: If I was starting > from scratch I'd implement it with Qt (in C++, not with Designer) and > make it work on all supported host platforms. The current code was > originally a quick'n'dirty port of the BeOS UI... -- Robert Munafo -- mrob.com Follow me at: gplus.to/mrob - fb.com/mrob27 - twitter.com/mrob_27 - mrob27.wordpress.com - youtube.com/user/mrob143 - rilybot.blogspot.com |
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From: Alexei S. <ale...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 17:16:53
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I think it makes sense to stick both codebases in the same repo as two side-by-side subtrees. We could even have the symlinks checked in, so the separate script to generate them won't be required. -Alexei On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Robert Munafo <mr...@gm...> wrote: > Regarding the symlinks, I think it's important to keep as much code > shared as possible. > > I don't care as much about whether that's done with symlinks, or in > the more standard way with a single directory tree with shared files > and two build targets. Either way I still have to read a README to > find out how to build it, and how to get the result running, and > that's not going to change. > > On the prefs editor issue, I couldn't care less. I've used both GUI > versions (there's a Mac-specific one, that some of you may have used) > as well as editing the textfile directly. Once again, you have to RTFM > to know how to set your prefs, and the task of actually setting them > is insignificant by comparison. > > On 6/16/12, Christian Bauer <cb...@ce...> wrote: > > [...] > > My main concern is what to do with the files shared between B2 and SS. I > > guess the best starting point would be to put both projects into a > > single repository, including the symlinks, and eventually rework the > > directory layout later? > > > > As far as the crappy GTK prefs editor is concerned: If I was starting > > from scratch I'd implement it with Qt (in C++, not with Designer) and > > make it work on all supported host platforms. The current code was > > originally a quick'n'dirty port of the BeOS UI... > > -- > Robert Munafo -- mrob.com > Follow me at: gplus.to/mrob - fb.com/mrob27 - twitter.com/mrob_27 - > mrob27.wordpress.com - youtube.com/user/mrob143 - rilybot.blogspot.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > basilisk-devel mailing list > bas...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/basilisk-devel > |
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From: Alexei S. <ale...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 17:23:47
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On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Alexei Svitkine <ale...@gm...>wrote: > We could even have the symlinks checked in, so the separate script to > generate them won't be required. Looks like that wouldn't work well with Windows. Sigh: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5917249/git-symlinks-in-windows -Alexei |
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From: Robert M. <mr...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 20:16:03
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Gee, well if the Windows solution involves a post-checkout script to run a bunch of "mklink" commands, then we might as well *not* include the symlinks in the repository, and retain the "make links" step that we have now (but still move to Git or some other newer source code management). On 6/16/12, Alexei Svitkine <ale...@gm...> wrote: > On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Alexei Svitkine wrote: > >> We could even have the symlinks checked in, so the separate script to >> generate them won't be required. > > Looks like that wouldn't work well with Windows. Sigh: > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5917249/git-symlinks-in-windows -- Robert Munafo -- mrob.com Follow me at: gplus.to/mrob - fb.com/mrob27 - twitter.com/mrob_27 - mrob27.wordpress.com - youtube.com/user/mrob143 - rilybot.blogspot.com |
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From: Alexei S. <ale...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 17:38:49
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On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 5:08 AM, Christian Bauer <cb...@ce...> wrote: > Hi! > > At last some action here. :-) > > I agree that for a project with so few active developers CVS should > still be sufficient. But if it helps people working on the code I will > gladly convert the CVS repository to git and put it on GitHub (and shut > down the CVS). However, due to time constraints I won't always be able > to respond to pull requests or review patches myself, so I'd place the > main liability for keeping the repository up-to-date on Alexei if that's > OK. > Sounds like there's a lot of interest in moving to GitHub, so let's do it. Can you create a new GitHub repo containing both SS and BasiliskII sources from the CVS TOT and add me as a collaborator? (https://github.com/asvitkine ) This will then become the new "upstream" repo for SS + BasiliskII and we'll go from there. -Alexei |
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From: Alexander v. G. <kal...@un...> - 2012-06-16 18:09:10
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On 16.06.2012 12:38, Alexei Svitkine wrote: > On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 5:08 AM, Christian Bauer <cb...@ce... [1]> wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> At last some action here. :-) >> >> I agree that for a project with so few active developers CVS should >> still be sufficient. But if it helps people working on the code I will >> gladly convert the CVS repository to git and put it on GitHub (and shut >> down the CVS). However, due to time constraints I won't always be able >> to respond to pull requests or review patches myself, so I'd place the >> main liability for keeping the repository up-to-date on Alexei if that's >> OK. > > Sounds like there's a lot of interest in moving to GitHub, so let's do it. Yay! Glad to hear I was the motivation for this! :D There are some examples of git usage and a flow chart I threw together a while back if anyone wants a *quick* crash course on GIT: https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/get-source-git Tips: * Always git pull --rebase before you commit. This will mimic a central repo better and avoid a mass amount of merges -- Alex |
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From: Robert M. <mr...@gm...> - 2012-06-16 20:31:36
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I would recommend this to anyone wanting to understand what Git actually does: ftp.newartisans.com/pub/git.from.bottom.up.pdf "Git From the Bottom Up" by John Wiegley (PDF file), December 2009 He explains blobs, the index (aka "staging area"), working tree, rebasing, etc. with lots of details like identifying a commit by an unambiguous initial substring of its SHA1 hash. There are a bunch of good illustrations showing the structure of the repository and working tree databases. Alex wrote: > There are some examples of git usage and a flow chart I threw together a > while back if anyone wants a *quick* crash course on GIT: > > https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/get-source-git > > Tips: > * Always git pull --rebase before you commit. > This will mimic a central repo better and avoid a mass amount of merges -- Robert Munafo -- mrob.com Follow me at: gplus.to/mrob - fb.com/mrob27 - twitter.com/mrob_27 - mrob27.wordpress.com - youtube.com/user/mrob143 - rilybot.blogspot.com |
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From: Christian B. <cb...@ce...> - 2012-06-18 18:39:53
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Hi! On 06/16/2012 07:38 PM, Alexei Svitkine wrote: > Can you create a new GitHub repo containing both SS and BasiliskII > sources from the CVS TOT and add me as a collaborator? Let me know whether this works for you: https://github.com/cebix/macemu Bye, Christian -- / Physics is an algorithm \/ www.cebix.net |
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From: Alexei S. <ale...@gm...> - 2012-06-18 23:06:50
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Seems to work, thanks! On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Christian Bauer <cb...@ce...> wrote: > Hi! > > On 06/16/2012 07:38 PM, Alexei Svitkine wrote: > > Can you create a new GitHub repo containing both SS and BasiliskII > > sources from the CVS TOT and add me as a collaborator? > > Let me know whether this works for you: > https://github.com/cebix/macemu > > Bye, > Christian > > -- > / Physics is an algorithm > \/ www.cebix.net > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > basilisk-devel mailing list > bas...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/basilisk-devel > |
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From: Alexei S. <ale...@gm...> - 2012-07-07 18:14:28
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Hey Christian, Do you mind updating http://sheepshaver.cebix.net/ to point at the new GIT repo instead of the old CVS one? -Alexei On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Alexei Svitkine <ale...@gm...>wrote: > Seems to work, thanks! > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Christian Bauer <cb...@ce...> wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> On 06/16/2012 07:38 PM, Alexei Svitkine wrote: >> > Can you create a new GitHub repo containing both SS and BasiliskII >> > sources from the CVS TOT and add me as a collaborator? >> >> Let me know whether this works for you: >> https://github.com/cebix/macemu >> >> Bye, >> Christian >> >> -- >> / Physics is an algorithm >> \/ www.cebix.net >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Live Security Virtual Conference >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >> _______________________________________________ >> basilisk-devel mailing list >> bas...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/basilisk-devel >> > > |
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From: Alexei S. <ale...@gm...> - 2015-12-29 16:46:05
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Hey Christian, I've also now added your cxmon project to this same repo, since it seemed relevant and there were people asking on the macemu github about where to get it. If you're fine with this, it would be good to update the cxmon website to mention the git repo is now its official repository. On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Alexei Svitkine <ale...@gm...> wrote: > Hey Christian, > > Do you mind updating http://sheepshaver.cebix.net/ to point at the new > GIT repo instead of the old CVS one? > > -Alexei > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Alexei Svitkine < > ale...@gm...> wrote: > >> Seems to work, thanks! >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Christian Bauer <cb...@ce...> wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> On 06/16/2012 07:38 PM, Alexei Svitkine wrote: >>> > Can you create a new GitHub repo containing both SS and BasiliskII >>> > sources from the CVS TOT and add me as a collaborator? >>> >>> Let me know whether this works for you: >>> https://github.com/cebix/macemu >>> >>> Bye, >>> Christian >>> >>> -- >>> / Physics is an algorithm >>> \/ www.cebix.net >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> basilisk-devel mailing list >>> bas...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/basilisk-devel >>> >> >> > |
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From: Christian B. <cb...@ce...> - 2016-01-31 15:13:54
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Hi! On 29.12.2015 17:45, Alexei Svitkine wrote: > I've also now added your cxmon project to this same repo Thanks! I've updated the autotools files a little and removed the generated files from the repository. Bye, Christian -- / Physics is an algorithm \/ www.cebix.net |
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