## Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat

 Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat From: Les Jones - 2006-06-30 04:04:09 ```Linton, Thank for a detailed explanation. I've played the Strat somewhat, but again, I'm just learning the ins and outs of electric guitars. I noticed when switching especially at the 2 and 4 positions how I get, for lack of a better word, a plucky sound. Now I understand why. You notes have brought that together for me. Thanks a ton! Les ** SMITH Linton wrote: > Les, > > the pickups of a guitar produce an alternating current and voltage > waveform which represents the vibration of the string above the pickup. > That is to say, that as the string goes back and forward, a current & > voltage is generated by the pickup which runs back and forth in sympathy > with the string vibration...... > > > Linton. > > Linton Smith > DMS Subject Matter Expert > AP-3C Support Contract > Tenix Defence - Aerospace Division > > > "What do YOU care what other people think?" > > ```

 Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat From: SMITH Linton - 2006-06-29 22:36:05 ```Les, the pickups of a guitar produce an alternating current and voltage waveform which represents the vibration of the string above the pickup. That is to say, that as the string goes back and forward, a current & voltage is generated by the pickup which runs back and forth in sympathy with the string vibration. Due to the physics of coils and magnets, the phase relationship of the current flow and the string vibration is dependent on exactly how the pickup is manufactured: specifically the wire can be wound onto the magnet post clockwise or counter clockwise. For a given string vibration, clockwise produces an electric current that flows one way while counter clockwise produces an electric current that flows in the opposite direction. eg (forgive the ascci text graphics) String Vibration: x x x x x x x x... x x x x x Clockwise (for convention) x x x x x x x x... x x x x x Counter Clockwise (given the above convention) x x x x x x x x... x x x x x OK now all pickups are made the same way. So what this means is that we can think of the wires coming out of the pickup has having a polarity ie +/- like a battery. Now like a battery if you had two pickups exposed to the exact, and I mean exact, same string vibration in the exact same way, and you connected the pickups in series, thereby adding their output voltages you would get twice the output voltage of a single pickup.=20=20 +______ <--------- )=20=20 ) - ____) + |___ 2 x Single Pickup Voltage ) ) -______) <--------- This is an in-phase series connection. If you reversed the polarity on one and reconnected them and given the same conditions of string etc you would get no output. (same as what happens when two identical batteries are connected positive to positive). this is an out-of-phase series connection. Now what would happen if the two pickups were exposed to the same string vibration in a not-identical manner and were connected in out-of-phase?=20 The signal at the first pickup would NOT match the second identically and so when added together there would be a non-zero signal. That signal would be the difference of the string vibration measured by the first pickup (say the bridge pickup on a strat) and the second pickup (say the middle pickup on a strat). It would tend to be reedy and thin sounding because this difference signal would be dominated by the higher frequencies and overtones This is what happens in single pole pickup guitars like strats that have switch wiring that allows the player to mix his pickup signals in an out-of-phase manner. On a Strat this is switch positions 2 (bridge and center pickups) and 4 (center and neck pickups). HTH Linton. Linton Smith DMS Subject Matter Expert AP-3C Support Contract Tenix Defence - Aerospace Division "What do YOU care what other people think?" -----Original Message----- From: audacity-users-bounces@... [mailto:audacity-users-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Les Sent: Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:00 PM To: audacity-users@... Subject: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat jimi Photon wrote .......:(BTW...you'd be better off to use a strat for=20 that knopfler tone...les pauls are a little different sounding than=20 Mark's signature out-of-phase strat tone) ** I've been using Audacity for quite a while and have loved it. Aside from that, I've been an acoustic player for 30 some odd years and and just=20 went electric last August. Can you explain what "out of phase" means in reference to the Strat.=20 I've stepped up to the plate and now have a Strat Deluxe and a=20 Rickenbacker 360/12. I'm very much interested in developing my styles on the electrics, but being an acoustic guitarist I don't know the electric guitarist vocabulary very well. Here's a sample of my Audacity work (about 8 tracks worth of stuffness)=20 and the Rickenbacker .... http://croakingfrogmusic.com/mp3/uip.mp3 Thanks, Les Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&dat=3D1= 21642 --=20 Mailing list: Audacity-users@... To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users Disclaimer : The contents of this e-mail including any attachments are intended only for the person or entity to which this e-mail is addressed. If you are not, or believe you may not be, the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Tenix does not warrant nor guarantee that this email communication is free from errors, virus, interception or interference. ```
 Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat From: SMITH Linton - 2006-07-02 22:50:52 ```your welcome -----Original Message----- From: audacity-users-bounces@... [mailto:audacity-users-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Les Jones Sent: Friday, 30 June 2006 1:34 PM To: Discussion list for Audacity users Subject: Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat Linton, Thank for a detailed explanation. I've played the Strat somewhat, but=20 again, I'm just learning the ins and outs of electric guitars. I noticed when switching especially at the 2 and 4 positions how I get, for lack=20 of a better word, a plucky sound. Now I understand why. You notes have=20 brought that together for me. Thanks a ton! Les ** SMITH Linton wrote: > Les, > > the pickups of a guitar produce an alternating current and voltage > waveform which represents the vibration of the string above the pickup. > That is to say, that as the string goes back and forward, a current & > voltage is generated by the pickup which runs back and forth in sympathy > with the string vibration...... > > > Linton. > > Linton Smith > DMS Subject Matter Expert > AP-3C Support Contract > Tenix Defence - Aerospace Division > > > "What do YOU care what other people think?" > >=20=20=20 Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&dat=3D1= 21642 --=20 Mailing list: Audacity-users@... To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users Disclaimer : The contents of this e-mail including any attachments are intended only for the person or entity to which this e-mail is addressed. If you are not, or believe you may not be, the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Tenix does not warrant nor guarantee that this email communication is free from errors, virus, interception or interference. ```
 Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat From: SMITH Linton - 2006-07-16 22:03:19 ```Also Jimi Hendrix used to have his guitar maintenance man "break" the switch. I think he removed the spring so that jimi could position the switch in the "in-between" position. cheers Linton=20 -----Original Message----- From: audacity-users-bounces@... [mailto:audacity-users-bounces@...] On Behalf Of MoonCaine Sent: Monday, 17 July 2006 4:22 AM To: Discussion list for Audacity users Subject: Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat A short way I heard it explained is this: the center pickup's 2 wires are swapped, which results in phase cancelling whenever that pickup is mixed with one of the others. Out-of-phase pickups make a kind of 'scooped' sound, that cuts out the midrange and makes the pluck sound stand out more. If you want more details: Originally, it was accidental. The Strat wasn't designed to mix the pickups together, and the makers didn't realize that one pickup was sometimes wired backwards. Players discovered this funky tone, and either found a way to "trick" the switch into an in-between position, or, for some guitars, get in there and swap two wire connections to make that trick possible. Later, when Fender realized players liked that tone, they modified the guitars so that you could switch to that tone normally, instead of having to "trick" your guitar. If you're a Knopfler fan, you probably saw him pictured with the red Strat he played back in the Sultans Of Swing days. See the duct tape on the pickup switch? That's there because he's got an old Strat with a 3-position switch, and the tape helps him get the switch to a position "in between" 2 pickup selections. Later Strats came with a 5- position switch so you could skip the duct tape. Perfect example of this pickup sound, clearly and easily audible: the Steely Dan song, "Hey Nineteen". --moonie On Jun 30, 2006, at 12:04 AM, Les Jones wrote: > Linton, > > Thank for a detailed explanation. I've played the Strat somewhat, but=20 > again, I'm just learning the ins and outs of electric guitars. I=20 > noticed when switching especially at the 2 and 4 positions how I get,=20 > for lack of a better word, a plucky sound. Now I understand why. You=20 > notes have brought that together for me. > > Thanks a ton! > > Les > ** > > SMITH Linton wrote: >> Les, >> >> the pickups of a guitar produce an alternating current and voltage=20 >> waveform which represents the vibration of the string above the=20 >> pickup. >> That is to say, that as the string goes back and forward, a current & >> voltage is generated by the pickup which runs back and forth in=20 >> sympathy with the string vibration...... >> >> >> Linton. >> >> Linton Smith >> DMS Subject Matter Expert >> AP-3C Support Contract >> Tenix Defence - Aerospace Division >> >> >> "What do YOU care what other people think?" >> >> > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services,=20=20 > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your=20=20 > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache=20=20 > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?=20 > cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&dat=3D121642 > --=20 > Mailing list: Audacity-users@... > To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users -- Geek tip: never try to type on your laptop while holding a=20=20 permanent marker at the same time. It'll end in tears. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&dat=3D1= 21642 --=20 Mailing list: Audacity-users@... To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users Disclaimer : The contents of this e-mail including any attachments are intended only for the person or entity to which this e-mail is addressed. If you are not, or believe you may not be, the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Tenix does not warrant nor guarantee that this email communication is free from errors, virus, interception or interference. ```
 Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat From: MoonCaine - 2006-07-18 04:38:40 ```Besides breaking the spring, guitar techs would sometimes take a file to the switch's backside, to add a notch or two where needed. None of these things was completely reliable, and eventually Fender got on the ball and made a 5-position switch. --James On Jul 16, 2006, at 6:03 PM, SMITH Linton wrote: > Also Jimi Hendrix used to have his guitar maintenance man "break" the > switch. I think he removed the spring so that jimi could position the > switch in the "in-between" position. > > cheers > > Linton > > -----Original Message----- > From: audacity-users-bounces@... > [mailto:audacity-users-bounces@...] On Behalf Of > MoonCaine > Sent: Monday, 17 July 2006 4:22 AM > To: Discussion list for Audacity users > Subject: Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat > > A short way I heard it explained is this: the center pickup's 2 wires > are swapped, which results in phase cancelling whenever that pickup is > mixed with one of the others. Out-of-phase pickups make a kind of > 'scooped' sound, that cuts out the midrange and makes the pluck sound > stand out more. > > If you want more details: > > Originally, it was accidental. The Strat wasn't designed to mix the > pickups together, and the makers didn't realize that one pickup was > sometimes wired backwards. Players discovered this funky tone, and > either found a way to "trick" the switch into an in-between position, > or, for some guitars, get in there and swap two wire connections to > make > that trick possible. > > Later, when Fender realized players liked that tone, they modified the > guitars so that you could switch to that tone normally, instead of > having to "trick" your guitar. > > If you're a Knopfler fan, you probably saw him pictured with the red > Strat he played back in the Sultans Of Swing days. See the duct > tape on > the pickup switch? That's there because he's got an old Strat with a > 3-position switch, and the tape helps him get the switch to a position > "in between" 2 pickup selections. Later Strats came with a 5- position > switch so you could skip the duct tape. > > Perfect example of this pickup sound, clearly and easily audible: the > Steely Dan song, "Hey Nineteen". > > --moonie > > > > > On Jun 30, 2006, at 12:04 AM, Les Jones wrote: > >> Linton, >> >> Thank for a detailed explanation. I've played the Strat somewhat, but >> again, I'm just learning the ins and outs of electric guitars. I >> noticed when switching especially at the 2 and 4 positions how I get, >> for lack of a better word, a plucky sound. Now I understand why. You >> notes have brought that together for me. >> >> Thanks a ton! >> >> Les >> ** >> >> SMITH Linton wrote: >>> Les, >>> >>> the pickups of a guitar produce an alternating current and voltage >>> waveform which represents the vibration of the string above the >>> pickup. >>> That is to say, that as the string goes back and forward, a >>> current & > >>> voltage is generated by the pickup which runs back and forth in >>> sympathy with the string vibration...... >>> >>> >>> Linton. >>> >>> Linton Smith >>> DMS Subject Matter Expert >>> AP-3C Support Contract >>> Tenix Defence - Aerospace Division >>> >>> >>> "What do YOU care what other people think?" >>> >>> >> >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> -- >> Mailing list: Audacity-users@... >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page: >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users > > -- Geek tip: never try to type on your laptop while holding a > permanent marker at the same time. It'll end in tears. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > - > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > -- > Mailing list: Audacity-users@... > To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users > > > Disclaimer : > The contents of this e-mail including any attachments are intended > only > for the person or entity to which this e-mail is addressed. If you > are not, > or believe you may not be, the intended recipient, please advise > the sender > immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any > copies. > Tenix does not warrant nor guarantee that this email communication > is free > from errors, virus, interception or interference. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > -- > Mailing list: Audacity-users@... > To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ US Citizens, tell your elected representatives what you want and expect: http://www.senate.gov/ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ```
 Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat From: Les Jones - 2006-06-30 04:04:09 ```Linton, Thank for a detailed explanation. I've played the Strat somewhat, but again, I'm just learning the ins and outs of electric guitars. I noticed when switching especially at the 2 and 4 positions how I get, for lack of a better word, a plucky sound. Now I understand why. You notes have brought that together for me. Thanks a ton! Les ** SMITH Linton wrote: > Les, > > the pickups of a guitar produce an alternating current and voltage > waveform which represents the vibration of the string above the pickup. > That is to say, that as the string goes back and forward, a current & > voltage is generated by the pickup which runs back and forth in sympathy > with the string vibration...... > > > Linton. > > Linton Smith > DMS Subject Matter Expert > AP-3C Support Contract > Tenix Defence - Aerospace Division > > > "What do YOU care what other people think?" > > ```
 Re: [Audacity-users] off topic - out of phase strat From: MoonCaine - 2006-07-16 18:58:02 ```A short way I heard it explained is this: the center pickup's 2 wires are swapped, which results in phase cancelling whenever that pickup is mixed with one of the others. Out-of-phase pickups make a kind of 'scooped' sound, that cuts out the midrange and makes the pluck sound stand out more. If you want more details: Originally, it was accidental. The Strat wasn't designed to mix the pickups together, and the makers didn't realize that one pickup was sometimes wired backwards. Players discovered this funky tone, and either found a way to "trick" the switch into an in-between position, or, for some guitars, get in there and swap two wire connections to make that trick possible. Later, when Fender realized players liked that tone, they modified the guitars so that you could switch to that tone normally, instead of having to "trick" your guitar. If you're a Knopfler fan, you probably saw him pictured with the red Strat he played back in the Sultans Of Swing days. See the duct tape on the pickup switch? That's there because he's got an old Strat with a 3-position switch, and the tape helps him get the switch to a position "in between" 2 pickup selections. Later Strats came with a 5- position switch so you could skip the duct tape. Perfect example of this pickup sound, clearly and easily audible: the Steely Dan song, "Hey Nineteen". --moonie On Jun 30, 2006, at 12:04 AM, Les Jones wrote: > Linton, > > Thank for a detailed explanation. I've played the Strat somewhat, but > again, I'm just learning the ins and outs of electric guitars. I > noticed > when switching especially at the 2 and 4 positions how I get, for lack > of a better word, a plucky sound. Now I understand why. You notes have > brought that together for me. > > Thanks a ton! > > Les > ** > > SMITH Linton wrote: >> Les, >> >> the pickups of a guitar produce an alternating current and voltage >> waveform which represents the vibration of the string above the >> pickup. >> That is to say, that as the string goes back and forward, a current & >> voltage is generated by the pickup which runs back and forth in >> sympathy >> with the string vibration...... >> >> >> Linton. >> >> Linton Smith >> DMS Subject Matter Expert >> AP-3C Support Contract >> Tenix Defence - Aerospace Division >> >> >> "What do YOU care what other people think?" >> >> > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > -- > Mailing list: Audacity-users@... > To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users -- Geek tip: never try to type on your laptop while holding a permanent marker at the same time. It'll end in tears. ```