Thread: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2012-12-07 20:20:20
Attachments:
BassTreble.cpp
BassTreble.h
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This is my first attempt at writing more than a couple of lines of C++ so I hope you'll be gentle with me :=) Although Audacity has a "Bass Boost" effect we quite often get asked on the forum how to reduce bass, boost treble or reduce treble. It has also struck me as quite odd that out of these 4, only Bass Boost is provided. The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit. Attached is my attempt at providing a replacement for Bass Boost. It is a simple Bass/Treble effect - just two sliders, one for bass, one for treble, like on a hi-fi amp. +/- 15 dB on each. Unlike Bass Boost, if tracks are 32 bit float format the effect does not clip at 0 dB, making it easier for users to recover from overdoing the boost. I've only provided the .cpp and .h files as I'm not sure what else is required for building cross-platform. Steve |
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From: David B. <drb...@go...> - 2012-12-08 09:33:03
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On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 8:20 PM, Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...>wrote: > > > The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power > and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for > someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit. > thanks for writing this, I'm sure it will useful for users of screen readers, David. |
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From: Richard A. <ri...@au...> - 2012-12-08 18:15:47
Attachments:
BassTreble.patch
|
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 20:20:13 +0000 Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> wrote: > This is my first attempt at writing more than a couple of lines of C++ > so I hope you'll be gentle with me :=) Thank you for putting in the effort to write this. > Although Audacity has a "Bass Boost" effect we quite often get asked > on the forum how to reduce bass, boost treble or reduce treble. It has > also struck me as quite odd that out of these 4, only Bass Boost is > provided. > > The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power > and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for > someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit. It's also not straightforward to create curves in the Eq dialogue which replicate typical analogue EQs > Attached is my attempt at providing a replacement for Bass Boost. It > is a simple Bass/Treble effect - just two sliders, one for bass, one > for treble, like on a hi-fi amp. +/- 15 dB on each. Certainly a common request. > Unlike Bass Boost, if tracks are 32 bit float format the effect does > not clip at 0 dB, making it easier for users to recover from overdoing > the boost. That's a bug against Bass Boost, so nice to be able to fix by using this instead. > I've only provided the .cpp and .h files as I'm not sure what else is > required for building cross-platform. The easiest way to bundle up the files and associated changes to use the effect is by creating a patch from the top level of the audacity sources. This allows the changes to other files to be included, as well as new files. The resulting patch file represents exactly what would be changed in SVN if the change is accepted. I'm not sure what platform you are on, but on my Linux system, I added your files into my source tree, added the new files to SVN and ran svn di > BassTreble.patch To make the effect work (as I'm sure you know) requires it to be added to EffectManager.cpp. For compilation on Linux the new object file needs to be added to src/Makefile.in and configure re-run. There will be corresponding changes to the MS. and Apple project files for the toolchains, but I don't know what they are. I'm attaching the resulting patch for other people's convenience - this is entirely Steve's work. What does it do? Well, it certainly does what it says. I haven't tried to plot frequency responses for various control settings, but my impression is that the response keeps on rising or falling to the edge of the audio band, which wasn't quite what I expected to see (but this is just some quick white noise processing). I haven't tried listening to the results, or comparing to hardware EQ yet. Steve, I will look at the code in more detail and give feedback later, but in general looks good. Quick comment, we are slowly removing the comment blocks which start "Indentation settings for Vim and Emacs ..." from files, so I will want to drop these before committing - but that is definitely cosmetic. Richard |
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From: Martyn S. <mar...@gm...> - 2012-12-09 00:47:18
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Hi Steve
Nice piece of work!
And thanks to Richard for making it easily accessible.
I applied the patch on Windows, added the 2 files to the src/effects
section of the Audacity solution and it just compiled and ran! Well,
almost. There was an error but changing
Pi = 4 * atan(1);
to
Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0);
fixed that. I always put '1.' or '1.0' if I mean something is a
float, and that seems to un-confuse the compiler.
I've had a quick look through the code and it looks pretty good. A
couple of things that you need to change:
* We need to be able to type a minus sign into the boxes but the
validator won't let us. I think you can use AddNumericTextBox instead
of AddTextBox and then not have any of the Validator code. I see why
it's there (copy and paste from BassBoost), but you can allow '+' and
'-', which is what AddNumericTextBox does behind the scenes.
* I don't think that 'GetEffectCategories' is in use, but if/when it
is, is this the right category? Probably not.
Other than that, the code looks good to me!
On 07/12/2012 20:20, Steve the Fiddle wrote:
> This is my first attempt at writing more than a couple of lines of C++
> so I hope you'll be gentle with me :=)
>
> Although Audacity has a "Bass Boost" effect we quite often get asked
> on the forum how to reduce bass, boost treble or reduce treble. It has
> also struck me as quite odd that out of these 4, only Bass Boost is
> provided.
An historical thing, I'm sure. Bass Boost has been around a lot
longer than me! I'd be happy to see it replaced with this.
This code has one less parameter, the frequency. I'm sure that some
will argue that this is a loss. I do not thing that this should be
added to this effect, or it will make it more complex than the
original idea was looking for.
> The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power
> and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for
> someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit.
Indeed.
> Attached is my attempt at providing a replacement for Bass Boost. It
> is a simple Bass/Treble effect - just two sliders, one for bass, one
> for treble, like on a hi-fi amp. +/- 15 dB on each.
There could be a whole different thread about the actual parameters to
use for this effect, but let's keep that off this one and stick to code.
I take it that the bi-quad code is taken from previously tested stuff?
I didn't look too closely at it.
TTFN
Martyn
> Unlike Bass Boost, if tracks are 32 bit float format the effect does
> not clip at 0 dB, making it easier for users to recover from overdoing
> the boost.
>
> I've only provided the .cpp and .h files as I'm not sure what else is
> required for building cross-platform.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support
> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services
> Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> audacity-devel mailing list
> aud...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
|
|
From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2012-12-10 01:14:28
Attachments:
BassTreble-2.patch
|
Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. The new patch includes the changes to LoadEffects.cpp and Makefile.in (I'm on Linux). Note that I'm replacing BassBoost, so if you don''t want to remove BassBosst these parts will need to be modified. I wasn't sure how to get the new files included in an svn diff, but now I've found that I just needed to use svn add. The effect uses two biquad shelf filters. The formula came from a Google search and other than minor differences in parameter names is the same formula as used in BassBoost. There are no "standards" for two band equalizers (tone controls) but generally they tend to be similar to those used here with fairly gradual slopes either side of about 1 kHz. In this effect the bass filter levels out at about 150 Hz, and the treble at about 8 kHz. The response can easily be visualised by applying to white noise and then using Plot Spectrum. The slope and filter frequencies were determined by looking at the frequency responses of as many 2 band equalizers that I could find documentation for. (so as to give the effect a "typical" response". I've removed the "Vim and Emacs" comment blocks. The problem regarding Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); has been fixed. The effect categry has been changed to EQPlugin I couldn't work out how to use AddNumericTextBox. My attempts to do so caused segmentation faults and I could find no examples of its use elsewhere in Audacity, so to fix the problem with typing a minus sign I validated against wxFILTER_NUMERIC. I think that's all the issues that have been raised. Steve On 9 December 2012 00:47, Martyn Shaw <mar...@gm...> wrote: > Hi Steve > > Nice piece of work! > > And thanks to Richard for making it easily accessible. > > I applied the patch on Windows, added the 2 files to the src/effects section > of the Audacity solution and it just compiled and ran! Well, almost. There > was an error but changing > Pi = 4 * atan(1); > to > Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); > fixed that. I always put '1.' or '1.0' if I mean something is a float, and > that seems to un-confuse the compiler. > > I've had a quick look through the code and it looks pretty good. A couple > of things that you need to change: > > * We need to be able to type a minus sign into the boxes but the validator > won't let us. I think you can use AddNumericTextBox instead of AddTextBox > and then not have any of the Validator code. I see why it's there (copy and > paste from BassBoost), but you can allow '+' and '-', which is what > AddNumericTextBox does behind the scenes. > > * I don't think that 'GetEffectCategories' is in use, but if/when it is, is > this the right category? Probably not. > > Other than that, the code looks good to me! > > > On 07/12/2012 20:20, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >> >> This is my first attempt at writing more than a couple of lines of C++ >> so I hope you'll be gentle with me :=) >> >> Although Audacity has a "Bass Boost" effect we quite often get asked >> on the forum how to reduce bass, boost treble or reduce treble. It has >> also struck me as quite odd that out of these 4, only Bass Boost is >> provided. > > > An historical thing, I'm sure. Bass Boost has been around a lot longer than > me! I'd be happy to see it replaced with this. > > This code has one less parameter, the frequency. I'm sure that some will > argue that this is a loss. I do not thing that this should be added to this > effect, or it will make it more complex than the original idea was looking > for. > > >> The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power >> and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for >> someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit. > > > Indeed. > > >> Attached is my attempt at providing a replacement for Bass Boost. It >> is a simple Bass/Treble effect - just two sliders, one for bass, one >> for treble, like on a hi-fi amp. +/- 15 dB on each. > > > There could be a whole different thread about the actual parameters to use > for this effect, but let's keep that off this one and stick to code. > > I take it that the bi-quad code is taken from previously tested stuff? I > didn't look too closely at it. > > TTFN > Martyn > >> Unlike Bass Boost, if tracks are 32 bit float format the effect does >> not clip at 0 dB, making it easier for users to recover from overdoing >> the boost. >> >> I've only provided the .cpp and .h files as I'm not sure what else is >> required for building cross-platform. >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial >> Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support >> Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services >> Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> audacity-devel mailing list >> aud...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel >> > |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2012-12-10 02:45:03
|
| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:14:21 +0000 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. > > The new patch includes the changes to LoadEffects.cpp and Makefile.in > (I'm on Linux). > Note that I'm replacing BassBoost, so if you don''t want to remove > BassBosst these parts will need to be modified. > I wasn't sure how to get the new files included in an svn diff, but > now I've found that I just needed to use svn add. > > The effect uses two biquad shelf filters. The formula came from a > Google search and other than minor differences in parameter names is > the same formula as used in BassBoost. > > There are no "standards" for two band equalizers (tone controls) but > generally they tend to be similar to those used here with fairly > gradual slopes either side of about 1 kHz. In this effect the bass > filter levels out at about 150 Hz, and the treble at about 8 kHz. The > response can easily be visualised by applying to white noise and then > using Plot Spectrum. The slope and filter frequencies were determined > by looking at the frequency responses of as many 2 band equalizers > that I could find documentation for. (so as to give the effect a > "typical" response". > > I've removed the "Vim and Emacs" comment blocks. > > The problem regarding Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); has been fixed. > > The effect categry has been changed to EQPlugin > > I couldn't work out how to use AddNumericTextBox. My attempts to do so > caused segmentation faults and I could find no examples of its use > elsewhere in Audacity, so to fix the problem with typing a minus sign > I validated against wxFILTER_NUMERIC. > > > I think that's all the issues that have been raised. Thanks, all. I figured others might like to play with this, so for anyone on Windows who doesn't compile you can test Steve's effort (second patch) here: http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v2.zip . +1 to this replacing BassBoost, but if so, I wonder if people are going to say "I could choose the frequency before". Would it overcomplicate it for the users to have boxes that "adjusted" the bass and treble frequency somewhat, sliders centred on zero (no adjustment)? Or let them choose frequency explicitly? It would still be "simpler" than EQ. I appreciate e.g. the bass amplification spreads much wider than 150 Hz (and from what I can see, choosing "1000 Hz" in Bass Boost didn't amplify 1000 Hz much more than BassTreble does). But mightn't it be nicer if you could "target" the boost more on a particular bass or treble frequency (a bit like the opposite of Notch Filter)? This would not be "like" bass and treble controls, but does it have to be like those? Gale > On 9 December 2012 00:47, Martyn Shaw <mar...@gm...> wrote: > > Hi Steve > > > > Nice piece of work! > > > > And thanks to Richard for making it easily accessible. > > > > I applied the patch on Windows, added the 2 files to the src/effects section > > of the Audacity solution and it just compiled and ran! Well, almost. There > > was an error but changing > > Pi = 4 * atan(1); > > to > > Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); > > fixed that. I always put '1.' or '1.0' if I mean something is a float, and > > that seems to un-confuse the compiler. > > > > I've had a quick look through the code and it looks pretty good. A couple > > of things that you need to change: > > > > * We need to be able to type a minus sign into the boxes but the validator > > won't let us. I think you can use AddNumericTextBox instead of AddTextBox > > and then not have any of the Validator code. I see why it's there (copy and > > paste from BassBoost), but you can allow '+' and '-', which is what > > AddNumericTextBox does behind the scenes. > > > > * I don't think that 'GetEffectCategories' is in use, but if/when it is, is > > this the right category? Probably not. > > > > Other than that, the code looks good to me! > > > > > > On 07/12/2012 20:20, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > >> > >> This is my first attempt at writing more than a couple of lines of C++ > >> so I hope you'll be gentle with me :=) > >> > >> Although Audacity has a "Bass Boost" effect we quite often get asked > >> on the forum how to reduce bass, boost treble or reduce treble. It has > >> also struck me as quite odd that out of these 4, only Bass Boost is > >> provided. > > > > > > An historical thing, I'm sure. Bass Boost has been around a lot longer than > > me! I'd be happy to see it replaced with this. > > > > This code has one less parameter, the frequency. I'm sure that some will > > argue that this is a loss. I do not thing that this should be added to this > > effect, or it will make it more complex than the original idea was looking > > for. > > > > > >> The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power > >> and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for > >> someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit. > > > > > > Indeed. > > > > > >> Attached is my attempt at providing a replacement for Bass Boost. It > >> is a simple Bass/Treble effect - just two sliders, one for bass, one > >> for treble, like on a hi-fi amp. +/- 15 dB on each. > > > > > > There could be a whole different thread about the actual parameters to use > > for this effect, but let's keep that off this one and stick to code. > > > > I take it that the bi-quad code is taken from previously tested stuff? I > > didn't look too closely at it. > > > > TTFN > > Martyn > > > >> Unlike Bass Boost, if tracks are 32 bit float format the effect does > >> not clip at 0 dB, making it easier for users to recover from overdoing > >> the boost. > >> > >> I've only provided the .cpp and .h files as I'm not sure what else is > >> required for building cross-platform. > >> > >> Steve |
|
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2012-12-10 22:17:32
|
| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Mon, 10 Dec 2012 03:54:17 +0000 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > I think that for most users the Bass and Treble effect adds a lot more > than it takes away and the simplicity of the effect is ideal for > novice users. Those that are not familiar with audio editing they are > very likely to be familiar with Bass and Treble controls. Hmm, for users who are moderately skilled, the frequency control in Bass Boost may have been useful to do a quick and dirty but configurable bass boost rather than open EQ. Were Forum users struggling with understanding the Frequency control in the old Bass Boost? You could separate the frequency controls underneath the level controls if you are concerned they could confuse. > I agree that there may be some users that may want the old BassBoost > effect, so what I would suggest is that rather than imposing a more > complicated Bass and Treble effect on all users, we provide "Bass > Boost" as an optional Nyquist plug-in on the wiki. There is still the > loss of the "Preview" button, but they gain the benefit of an effect > that does not clip at 0 dB. > > Nyquist version of Bass Boost attached. How about adding controls for treble and treble frequency to that, then there would be more benefit to it, and it would match the new effect? Gale > On 10 December 2012 02:44, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > > | Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:14:21 +0000 > > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > >> Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. > >> > >> The new patch includes the changes to LoadEffects.cpp and Makefile.in > >> (I'm on Linux). > >> Note that I'm replacing BassBoost, so if you don''t want to remove > >> BassBosst these parts will need to be modified. > >> I wasn't sure how to get the new files included in an svn diff, but > >> now I've found that I just needed to use svn add. > >> > >> The effect uses two biquad shelf filters. The formula came from a > >> Google search and other than minor differences in parameter names is > >> the same formula as used in BassBoost. > >> > >> There are no "standards" for two band equalizers (tone controls) but > >> generally they tend to be similar to those used here with fairly > >> gradual slopes either side of about 1 kHz. In this effect the bass > >> filter levels out at about 150 Hz, and the treble at about 8 kHz. The > >> response can easily be visualised by applying to white noise and then > >> using Plot Spectrum. The slope and filter frequencies were determined > >> by looking at the frequency responses of as many 2 band equalizers > >> that I could find documentation for. (so as to give the effect a > >> "typical" response". > >> > >> I've removed the "Vim and Emacs" comment blocks. > >> > >> The problem regarding Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); has been fixed. > >> > >> The effect categry has been changed to EQPlugin > >> > >> I couldn't work out how to use AddNumericTextBox. My attempts to do so > >> caused segmentation faults and I could find no examples of its use > >> elsewhere in Audacity, so to fix the problem with typing a minus sign > >> I validated against wxFILTER_NUMERIC. > >> > >> > >> I think that's all the issues that have been raised. > > > > Thanks, all. I figured others might like to play with this, so for > > anyone on Windows who doesn't compile you can test Steve's > > effort (second patch) here: > > http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v2.zip . > > > > +1 to this replacing BassBoost, but if so, I wonder if people are > > going to say "I could choose the frequency before". > > > > Would it overcomplicate it for the users to have boxes that > > "adjusted" the bass and treble frequency somewhat, sliders > > centred on zero (no adjustment)? Or let them choose frequency > > explicitly? It would still be "simpler" than EQ. > > > > I appreciate e.g. the bass amplification spreads much wider than > > 150 Hz (and from what I can see, choosing "1000 Hz" in Bass Boost > > didn't amplify 1000 Hz much more than BassTreble does). But > > mightn't it be nicer if you could "target" the boost more on a > > particular bass or treble frequency (a bit like the opposite of > > Notch Filter)? > > > > This would not be "like" bass and treble controls, but does it > > have to be like those? > > > > > > > > Gale > > > > > > > >> On 9 December 2012 00:47, Martyn Shaw <mar...@gm...> wrote: > >> > Hi Steve > >> > > >> > Nice piece of work! > >> > > >> > And thanks to Richard for making it easily accessible. > >> > > >> > I applied the patch on Windows, added the 2 files to the src/effects section > >> > of the Audacity solution and it just compiled and ran! Well, almost. There > >> > was an error but changing > >> > Pi = 4 * atan(1); > >> > to > >> > Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); > >> > fixed that. I always put '1.' or '1.0' if I mean something is a float, and > >> > that seems to un-confuse the compiler. > >> > > >> > I've had a quick look through the code and it looks pretty good. A couple > >> > of things that you need to change: > >> > > >> > * We need to be able to type a minus sign into the boxes but the validator > >> > won't let us. I think you can use AddNumericTextBox instead of AddTextBox > >> > and then not have any of the Validator code. I see why it's there (copy and > >> > paste from BassBoost), but you can allow '+' and '-', which is what > >> > AddNumericTextBox does behind the scenes. > >> > > >> > * I don't think that 'GetEffectCategories' is in use, but if/when it is, is > >> > this the right category? Probably not. > >> > > >> > Other than that, the code looks good to me! > >> > > >> > > >> > On 07/12/2012 20:20, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > >> >> > >> >> This is my first attempt at writing more than a couple of lines of C++ > >> >> so I hope you'll be gentle with me :=) > >> >> > >> >> Although Audacity has a "Bass Boost" effect we quite often get asked > >> >> on the forum how to reduce bass, boost treble or reduce treble. It has > >> >> also struck me as quite odd that out of these 4, only Bass Boost is > >> >> provided. > >> > > >> > > >> > An historical thing, I'm sure. Bass Boost has been around a lot longer than > >> > me! I'd be happy to see it replaced with this. > >> > > >> > This code has one less parameter, the frequency. I'm sure that some will > >> > argue that this is a loss. I do not thing that this should be added to this > >> > effect, or it will make it more complex than the original idea was looking > >> > for. > >> > > >> > > >> >> The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power > >> >> and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for > >> >> someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit. > >> > > >> > > >> > Indeed. > >> > > >> > > >> >> Attached is my attempt at providing a replacement for Bass Boost. It > >> >> is a simple Bass/Treble effect - just two sliders, one for bass, one > >> >> for treble, like on a hi-fi amp. +/- 15 dB on each. > >> > > >> > > >> > There could be a whole different thread about the actual parameters to use > >> > for this effect, but let's keep that off this one and stick to code. > >> > > >> > I take it that the bi-quad code is taken from previously tested stuff? I > >> > didn't look too closely at it. > >> > > >> > TTFN > >> > Martyn > >> > > >> >> Unlike Bass Boost, if tracks are 32 bit float format the effect does > >> >> not clip at 0 dB, making it easier for users to recover from overdoing > >> >> the boost. > >> >> > >> >> I've only provided the .cpp and .h files as I'm not sure what else is > >> >> required for building cross-platform. > >> >> > >> >> Steve |
|
From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2012-12-10 23:45:53
|
On 10 December 2012 22:17, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > | Mon, 10 Dec 2012 03:54:17 +0000 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect >> I think that for most users the Bass and Treble effect adds a lot more >> than it takes away and the simplicity of the effect is ideal for >> novice users. Those that are not familiar with audio editing they are >> very likely to be familiar with Bass and Treble controls. > > Hmm, for users who are moderately skilled, the frequency control > in Bass Boost may have been useful to do a quick and dirty but > configurable bass boost rather than open EQ. As with the Bass Boost Nyquist plug-in. For users that really want it then it's just a tiny download away. > > Were Forum users struggling with understanding the Frequency > control in the old Bass Boost? You could separate the frequency > controls underneath the level controls if you are concerned they > could confuse. The only comments regarding Bass Boost that I recall seeing are about the lack of bass cut and the lack of treble control. I don't recall anyone asking for Treble boost / cut with a frequency control. > > >> I agree that there may be some users that may want the old BassBoost >> effect, so what I would suggest is that rather than imposing a more >> complicated Bass and Treble effect on all users, we provide "Bass >> Boost" as an optional Nyquist plug-in on the wiki. There is still the >> loss of the "Preview" button, but they gain the benefit of an effect >> that does not clip at 0 dB. >> >> Nyquist version of Bass Boost attached. > > How about adding controls for treble and treble frequency to that, > then there would be more benefit to it, and it would match the new > effect? I'm looking at my stereo system: Bass, Treble, Volume and Balance. Adding frequency controls immediately takes it far away from being familiar and comfortable, Sure we could add Bass Frequency, Treble frequency, Mid level, Mid frequency, Mid Q, LF roll-off and all of these features would be extremely useful, but I don't think that is the point of this effect. The Bass and Treble effect is intended to be quick, simple, accessible and familiar. If users want finer control I would expect that they would use the Equalization effect. There is also a proposal on the wiki for providing a simpler interface to the Equalization effect that will help to fill the gap between the "big" Equalization effect and a simple Bass and Treble effect. http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Graphic_Equalizer_-_simple It seems quite ironic that Gale is asking me to make an effect more complicated :=) Steve > > > > Gale > > > >> On 10 December 2012 02:44, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >> > >> > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >> > | Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:14:21 +0000 >> > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect >> >> Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. >> >> >> >> The new patch includes the changes to LoadEffects.cpp and Makefile.in >> >> (I'm on Linux). >> >> Note that I'm replacing BassBoost, so if you don''t want to remove >> >> BassBosst these parts will need to be modified. >> >> I wasn't sure how to get the new files included in an svn diff, but >> >> now I've found that I just needed to use svn add. >> >> >> >> The effect uses two biquad shelf filters. The formula came from a >> >> Google search and other than minor differences in parameter names is >> >> the same formula as used in BassBoost. >> >> >> >> There are no "standards" for two band equalizers (tone controls) but >> >> generally they tend to be similar to those used here with fairly >> >> gradual slopes either side of about 1 kHz. In this effect the bass >> >> filter levels out at about 150 Hz, and the treble at about 8 kHz. The >> >> response can easily be visualised by applying to white noise and then >> >> using Plot Spectrum. The slope and filter frequencies were determined >> >> by looking at the frequency responses of as many 2 band equalizers >> >> that I could find documentation for. (so as to give the effect a >> >> "typical" response". >> >> >> >> I've removed the "Vim and Emacs" comment blocks. >> >> >> >> The problem regarding Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); has been fixed. >> >> >> >> The effect categry has been changed to EQPlugin >> >> >> >> I couldn't work out how to use AddNumericTextBox. My attempts to do so >> >> caused segmentation faults and I could find no examples of its use >> >> elsewhere in Audacity, so to fix the problem with typing a minus sign >> >> I validated against wxFILTER_NUMERIC. >> >> >> >> >> >> I think that's all the issues that have been raised. >> > >> > Thanks, all. I figured others might like to play with this, so for >> > anyone on Windows who doesn't compile you can test Steve's >> > effort (second patch) here: >> > http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v2.zip . >> > >> > +1 to this replacing BassBoost, but if so, I wonder if people are >> > going to say "I could choose the frequency before". >> > >> > Would it overcomplicate it for the users to have boxes that >> > "adjusted" the bass and treble frequency somewhat, sliders >> > centred on zero (no adjustment)? Or let them choose frequency >> > explicitly? It would still be "simpler" than EQ. >> > >> > I appreciate e.g. the bass amplification spreads much wider than >> > 150 Hz (and from what I can see, choosing "1000 Hz" in Bass Boost >> > didn't amplify 1000 Hz much more than BassTreble does). But >> > mightn't it be nicer if you could "target" the boost more on a >> > particular bass or treble frequency (a bit like the opposite of >> > Notch Filter)? >> > >> > This would not be "like" bass and treble controls, but does it >> > have to be like those? >> > >> > >> > >> > Gale >> > >> > >> > >> >> On 9 December 2012 00:47, Martyn Shaw <mar...@gm...> wrote: >> >> > Hi Steve >> >> > >> >> > Nice piece of work! >> >> > >> >> > And thanks to Richard for making it easily accessible. >> >> > >> >> > I applied the patch on Windows, added the 2 files to the src/effects section >> >> > of the Audacity solution and it just compiled and ran! Well, almost. There >> >> > was an error but changing >> >> > Pi = 4 * atan(1); >> >> > to >> >> > Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); >> >> > fixed that. I always put '1.' or '1.0' if I mean something is a float, and >> >> > that seems to un-confuse the compiler. >> >> > >> >> > I've had a quick look through the code and it looks pretty good. A couple >> >> > of things that you need to change: >> >> > >> >> > * We need to be able to type a minus sign into the boxes but the validator >> >> > won't let us. I think you can use AddNumericTextBox instead of AddTextBox >> >> > and then not have any of the Validator code. I see why it's there (copy and >> >> > paste from BassBoost), but you can allow '+' and '-', which is what >> >> > AddNumericTextBox does behind the scenes. >> >> > >> >> > * I don't think that 'GetEffectCategories' is in use, but if/when it is, is >> >> > this the right category? Probably not. >> >> > >> >> > Other than that, the code looks good to me! >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On 07/12/2012 20:20, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> This is my first attempt at writing more than a couple of lines of C++ >> >> >> so I hope you'll be gentle with me :=) >> >> >> >> >> >> Although Audacity has a "Bass Boost" effect we quite often get asked >> >> >> on the forum how to reduce bass, boost treble or reduce treble. It has >> >> >> also struck me as quite odd that out of these 4, only Bass Boost is >> >> >> provided. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > An historical thing, I'm sure. Bass Boost has been around a lot longer than >> >> > me! I'd be happy to see it replaced with this. >> >> > >> >> > This code has one less parameter, the frequency. I'm sure that some will >> >> > argue that this is a loss. I do not thing that this should be added to this >> >> > effect, or it will make it more complex than the original idea was looking >> >> > for. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power >> >> >> and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for >> >> >> someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Indeed. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Attached is my attempt at providing a replacement for Bass Boost. It >> >> >> is a simple Bass/Treble effect - just two sliders, one for bass, one >> >> >> for treble, like on a hi-fi amp. +/- 15 dB on each. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > There could be a whole different thread about the actual parameters to use >> >> > for this effect, but let's keep that off this one and stick to code. >> >> > >> >> > I take it that the bi-quad code is taken from previously tested stuff? I >> >> > didn't look too closely at it. >> >> > >> >> > TTFN >> >> > Martyn >> >> > >> >> >> Unlike Bass Boost, if tracks are 32 bit float format the effect does >> >> >> not clip at 0 dB, making it easier for users to recover from overdoing >> >> >> the boost. >> >> >> >> >> >> I've only provided the .cpp and .h files as I'm not sure what else is >> >> >> required for building cross-platform. >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2012-12-11 23:43:12
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| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Mon, 10 Dec 2012 23:45:45 +0000 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > On 10 December 2012 22:17, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > > | Mon, 10 Dec 2012 03:54:17 +0000 > > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > >> I think that for most users the Bass and Treble effect adds a lot more > >> than it takes away and the simplicity of the effect is ideal for > >> novice users. Those that are not familiar with audio editing they are > >> very likely to be familiar with Bass and Treble controls. > > > > Hmm, for users who are moderately skilled, the frequency control > > in Bass Boost may have been useful to do a quick and dirty but > > configurable bass boost rather than open EQ. > > As with the Bass Boost Nyquist plug-in. For users that really want it > then it's just a tiny download away. > > > > > Were Forum users struggling with understanding the Frequency > > control in the old Bass Boost? You could separate the frequency > > controls underneath the level controls if you are concerned they > > could confuse. > > The only comments regarding Bass Boost that I recall seeing are about > the lack of bass cut and the lack of treble control. > I don't recall anyone asking for Treble boost / cut with a frequency control. So, although the frequency control may have been unfamiliar, it was apparently causing no problem. > >> I agree that there may be some users that may want the old BassBoost > >> effect, so what I would suggest is that rather than imposing a more > >> complicated Bass and Treble effect on all users, we provide "Bass > >> Boost" as an optional Nyquist plug-in on the wiki. There is still the > >> loss of the "Preview" button, but they gain the benefit of an effect > >> that does not clip at 0 dB. > >> > >> Nyquist version of Bass Boost attached. > > > > How about adding controls for treble and treble frequency to that, > > then there would be more benefit to it, and it would match the new > > effect? > > I'm looking at my stereo system: > Bass, Treble, Volume and Balance. > > Adding frequency controls immediately takes it far away from being > familiar and comfortable, > Sure we could add Bass Frequency, Treble frequency, Mid level, Mid > frequency, Mid Q, LF roll-off and all of these features would be > extremely useful, but I don't think that is the point of this effect. > > The Bass and Treble effect is intended to be quick, simple, accessible > and familiar. > > If users want finer control I would expect that they would use the > Equalization effect. There is also a proposal on the wiki for > providing a simpler interface to the Equalization effect that will > help to fill the gap between the "big" Equalization effect and a > simple Bass and Treble effect. > http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Graphic_Equalizer_-_simple Indeed, but it still looks a lot more intimidating than a Bass-Treble with four controls would be. Somehow four controls would seem more fun to play with than two. More ways to change the sound. That's just how it struck me. If you're also saying a single Frequency control for bass and one for treble isn't going to give enough control to make a significant difference, that would completely convince me. Frankly I don't think the Frequency control in BassBoost made as much difference as it should have done, for whatever reason. > It seems quite ironic that Gale is asking me to make an effect more > complicated :=) Not ironic or inconsistent :=). I always prefer not to remove existing features (unless they are bad). You never know who is finding them useful or convenient. IMO what the controls do/ say they do/leave unexplained makes them complicated or not, more than the quantity of them. Anyway, if two controls has to be the maximum, I agree this is still much nicer than BassBoost. Thanks, Gale > > Steve > > > > > > > > > Gale > > > > > > > >> On 10 December 2012 02:44, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > >> > > >> > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > >> > | Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:14:21 +0000 > >> > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > >> >> Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. > >> >> > >> >> The new patch includes the changes to LoadEffects.cpp and Makefile.in > >> >> (I'm on Linux). > >> >> Note that I'm replacing BassBoost, so if you don''t want to remove > >> >> BassBosst these parts will need to be modified. > >> >> I wasn't sure how to get the new files included in an svn diff, but > >> >> now I've found that I just needed to use svn add. > >> >> > >> >> The effect uses two biquad shelf filters. The formula came from a > >> >> Google search and other than minor differences in parameter names is > >> >> the same formula as used in BassBoost. > >> >> > >> >> There are no "standards" for two band equalizers (tone controls) but > >> >> generally they tend to be similar to those used here with fairly > >> >> gradual slopes either side of about 1 kHz. In this effect the bass > >> >> filter levels out at about 150 Hz, and the treble at about 8 kHz. The > >> >> response can easily be visualised by applying to white noise and then > >> >> using Plot Spectrum. The slope and filter frequencies were determined > >> >> by looking at the frequency responses of as many 2 band equalizers > >> >> that I could find documentation for. (so as to give the effect a > >> >> "typical" response". > >> >> > >> >> I've removed the "Vim and Emacs" comment blocks. > >> >> > >> >> The problem regarding Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); has been fixed. > >> >> > >> >> The effect categry has been changed to EQPlugin > >> >> > >> >> I couldn't work out how to use AddNumericTextBox. My attempts to do so > >> >> caused segmentation faults and I could find no examples of its use > >> >> elsewhere in Audacity, so to fix the problem with typing a minus sign > >> >> I validated against wxFILTER_NUMERIC. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I think that's all the issues that have been raised. > >> > > >> > Thanks, all. I figured others might like to play with this, so for > >> > anyone on Windows who doesn't compile you can test Steve's > >> > effort (second patch) here: > >> > http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v2.zip . > >> > > >> > +1 to this replacing BassBoost, but if so, I wonder if people are > >> > going to say "I could choose the frequency before". > >> > > >> > Would it overcomplicate it for the users to have boxes that > >> > "adjusted" the bass and treble frequency somewhat, sliders > >> > centred on zero (no adjustment)? Or let them choose frequency > >> > explicitly? It would still be "simpler" than EQ. > >> > > >> > I appreciate e.g. the bass amplification spreads much wider than > >> > 150 Hz (and from what I can see, choosing "1000 Hz" in Bass Boost > >> > didn't amplify 1000 Hz much more than BassTreble does). But > >> > mightn't it be nicer if you could "target" the boost more on a > >> > particular bass or treble frequency (a bit like the opposite of > >> > Notch Filter)? > >> > > >> > This would not be "like" bass and treble controls, but does it > >> > have to be like those? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Gale > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> On 9 December 2012 00:47, Martyn Shaw <mar...@gm...> wrote: > >> >> > Hi Steve > >> >> > > >> >> > Nice piece of work! > >> >> > > >> >> > And thanks to Richard for making it easily accessible. > >> >> > > >> >> > I applied the patch on Windows, added the 2 files to the src/effects section > >> >> > of the Audacity solution and it just compiled and ran! Well, almost. There > >> >> > was an error but changing > >> >> > Pi = 4 * atan(1); > >> >> > to > >> >> > Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); > >> >> > fixed that. I always put '1.' or '1.0' if I mean something is a float, and > >> >> > that seems to un-confuse the compiler. > >> >> > > >> >> > I've had a quick look through the code and it looks pretty good. A couple > >> >> > of things that you need to change: > >> >> > > >> >> > * We need to be able to type a minus sign into the boxes but the validator > >> >> > won't let us. I think you can use AddNumericTextBox instead of AddTextBox > >> >> > and then not have any of the Validator code. I see why it's there (copy and > >> >> > paste from BassBoost), but you can allow '+' and '-', which is what > >> >> > AddNumericTextBox does behind the scenes. > >> >> > > >> >> > * I don't think that 'GetEffectCategories' is in use, but if/when it is, is > >> >> > this the right category? Probably not. > >> >> > > >> >> > Other than that, the code looks good to me! > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On 07/12/2012 20:20, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> This is my first attempt at writing more than a couple of lines of C++ > >> >> >> so I hope you'll be gentle with me :=) > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Although Audacity has a "Bass Boost" effect we quite often get asked > >> >> >> on the forum how to reduce bass, boost treble or reduce treble. It has > >> >> >> also struck me as quite odd that out of these 4, only Bass Boost is > >> >> >> provided. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > An historical thing, I'm sure. Bass Boost has been around a lot longer than > >> >> > me! I'd be happy to see it replaced with this. > >> >> > > >> >> > This code has one less parameter, the frequency. I'm sure that some will > >> >> > argue that this is a loss. I do not thing that this should be added to this > >> >> > effect, or it will make it more complex than the original idea was looking > >> >> > for. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >> The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power > >> >> >> and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for > >> >> >> someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Indeed. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >> Attached is my attempt at providing a replacement for Bass Boost. It > >> >> >> is a simple Bass/Treble effect - just two sliders, one for bass, one > >> >> >> for treble, like on a hi-fi amp. +/- 15 dB on each. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > There could be a whole different thread about the actual parameters to use > >> >> > for this effect, but let's keep that off this one and stick to code. > >> >> > > >> >> > I take it that the bi-quad code is taken from previously tested stuff? I > >> >> > didn't look too closely at it. > >> >> > > >> >> > TTFN > >> >> > Martyn > >> >> > > >> >> >> Unlike Bass Boost, if tracks are 32 bit float format the effect does > >> >> >> not clip at 0 dB, making it easier for users to recover from overdoing > >> >> >> the boost. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I've only provided the .cpp and .h files as I'm not sure what else is > >> >> >> required for building cross-platform. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Steve |
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2012-12-12 01:55:00
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> Anyway, if two controls has to be the maximum, I agree this is > still much nicer than BassBoost. > I think that all of the feedback has agreed on that it is preferable to Bass Boost. Subject to code review I think it would be good to get it "out there". Steve |
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From: Richard A. <ric...@go...> - 2012-12-10 16:16:44
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On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 03:54:17 +0000 Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> wrote: > There is still the > loss of the "Preview" button, but they gain the benefit of an effect > that does not clip at 0 dB. Adding the preview button back shouldn't be difficult as the structure is mostly in the SimpleEffectMono superclass (I think). Richard |
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From: Peter S. <pet...@ya...> - 2012-12-10 16:25:56
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Richard, does that mean that we could also get a preview button for Steve's new Adjustable Fade too? That would be very useful methinks. Peter. Peter Sampson Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780 Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299 ________________________________ From: Richard Ash <ric...@go...> To: aud...@li... Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 03:54:17 +0000 Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> wrote: > There is still the > loss of the "Preview" button, but they gain the benefit of an effect > that does not clip at 0 dB. Adding the preview button back shouldn't be difficult as the structure is mostly in the SimpleEffectMono superclass (I think). Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d _______________________________________________ audacity-devel mailing list aud...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2012-12-10 03:54:24
Attachments:
bassboost.ny
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Thanks for providing the Windows build Gale. I think that for most users the Bass and Treble effect adds a lot more than it takes away and the simplicity of the effect is ideal for novice users. Those that are not familiar with audio editing they are very likely to be familiar with Bass and Treble controls. I agree that there may be some users that may want the old BassBoost effect, so what I would suggest is that rather than imposing a more complicated Bass and Treble effect on all users, we provide "Bass Boost" as an optional Nyquist plug-in on the wiki. There is still the loss of the "Preview" button, but they gain the benefit of an effect that does not clip at 0 dB. Nyquist version of Bass Boost attached. Steve On 10 December 2012 02:44, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > | Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:14:21 +0000 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect >> Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. >> >> The new patch includes the changes to LoadEffects.cpp and Makefile.in >> (I'm on Linux). >> Note that I'm replacing BassBoost, so if you don''t want to remove >> BassBosst these parts will need to be modified. >> I wasn't sure how to get the new files included in an svn diff, but >> now I've found that I just needed to use svn add. >> >> The effect uses two biquad shelf filters. The formula came from a >> Google search and other than minor differences in parameter names is >> the same formula as used in BassBoost. >> >> There are no "standards" for two band equalizers (tone controls) but >> generally they tend to be similar to those used here with fairly >> gradual slopes either side of about 1 kHz. In this effect the bass >> filter levels out at about 150 Hz, and the treble at about 8 kHz. The >> response can easily be visualised by applying to white noise and then >> using Plot Spectrum. The slope and filter frequencies were determined >> by looking at the frequency responses of as many 2 band equalizers >> that I could find documentation for. (so as to give the effect a >> "typical" response". >> >> I've removed the "Vim and Emacs" comment blocks. >> >> The problem regarding Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); has been fixed. >> >> The effect categry has been changed to EQPlugin >> >> I couldn't work out how to use AddNumericTextBox. My attempts to do so >> caused segmentation faults and I could find no examples of its use >> elsewhere in Audacity, so to fix the problem with typing a minus sign >> I validated against wxFILTER_NUMERIC. >> >> >> I think that's all the issues that have been raised. > > Thanks, all. I figured others might like to play with this, so for > anyone on Windows who doesn't compile you can test Steve's > effort (second patch) here: > http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v2.zip . > > +1 to this replacing BassBoost, but if so, I wonder if people are > going to say "I could choose the frequency before". > > Would it overcomplicate it for the users to have boxes that > "adjusted" the bass and treble frequency somewhat, sliders > centred on zero (no adjustment)? Or let them choose frequency > explicitly? It would still be "simpler" than EQ. > > I appreciate e.g. the bass amplification spreads much wider than > 150 Hz (and from what I can see, choosing "1000 Hz" in Bass Boost > didn't amplify 1000 Hz much more than BassTreble does). But > mightn't it be nicer if you could "target" the boost more on a > particular bass or treble frequency (a bit like the opposite of > Notch Filter)? > > This would not be "like" bass and treble controls, but does it > have to be like those? > > > > Gale > > > >> On 9 December 2012 00:47, Martyn Shaw <mar...@gm...> wrote: >> > Hi Steve >> > >> > Nice piece of work! >> > >> > And thanks to Richard for making it easily accessible. >> > >> > I applied the patch on Windows, added the 2 files to the src/effects section >> > of the Audacity solution and it just compiled and ran! Well, almost. There >> > was an error but changing >> > Pi = 4 * atan(1); >> > to >> > Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); >> > fixed that. I always put '1.' or '1.0' if I mean something is a float, and >> > that seems to un-confuse the compiler. >> > >> > I've had a quick look through the code and it looks pretty good. A couple >> > of things that you need to change: >> > >> > * We need to be able to type a minus sign into the boxes but the validator >> > won't let us. I think you can use AddNumericTextBox instead of AddTextBox >> > and then not have any of the Validator code. I see why it's there (copy and >> > paste from BassBoost), but you can allow '+' and '-', which is what >> > AddNumericTextBox does behind the scenes. >> > >> > * I don't think that 'GetEffectCategories' is in use, but if/when it is, is >> > this the right category? Probably not. >> > >> > Other than that, the code looks good to me! >> > >> > >> > On 07/12/2012 20:20, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >> >> >> >> This is my first attempt at writing more than a couple of lines of C++ >> >> so I hope you'll be gentle with me :=) >> >> >> >> Although Audacity has a "Bass Boost" effect we quite often get asked >> >> on the forum how to reduce bass, boost treble or reduce treble. It has >> >> also struck me as quite odd that out of these 4, only Bass Boost is >> >> provided. >> > >> > >> > An historical thing, I'm sure. Bass Boost has been around a lot longer than >> > me! I'd be happy to see it replaced with this. >> > >> > This code has one less parameter, the frequency. I'm sure that some will >> > argue that this is a loss. I do not thing that this should be added to this >> > effect, or it will make it more complex than the original idea was looking >> > for. >> > >> > >> >> The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power >> >> and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for >> >> someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit. >> > >> > >> > Indeed. >> > >> > >> >> Attached is my attempt at providing a replacement for Bass Boost. It >> >> is a simple Bass/Treble effect - just two sliders, one for bass, one >> >> for treble, like on a hi-fi amp. +/- 15 dB on each. >> > >> > >> > There could be a whole different thread about the actual parameters to use >> > for this effect, but let's keep that off this one and stick to code. >> > >> > I take it that the bi-quad code is taken from previously tested stuff? I >> > didn't look too closely at it. >> > >> > TTFN >> > Martyn >> > >> >> Unlike Bass Boost, if tracks are 32 bit float format the effect does >> >> not clip at 0 dB, making it easier for users to recover from overdoing >> >> the boost. >> >> >> >> I've only provided the .cpp and .h files as I'm not sure what else is >> >> required for building cross-platform. >> >> >> >> Steve > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
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From: Peter S. <pet...@ya...> - 2012-12-10 09:50:20
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Steve wrote: >I think that for most users the Bass and Treble effect adds a lot more >than it takes away and the simplicity of the effect is ideal for >novice users. +1 the simplicity of this effect and its commonality with simple hi-fi tone controls is its attractiveness. Steve wrote: > ... I would suggest is that rather than imposing a more complicated Bass and Treble effect on all users, we provide "Bass Boost" as an optional Nyquist plug-in on the wiki. +1 Peter. Peter Sampson Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780 Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299 ________________________________ From: Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> To: Audacity-Devel list <aud...@li...> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 3:54 AM Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect Thanks for providing the Windows build Gale. I think that for most users the Bass and Treble effect adds a lot more than it takes away and the simplicity of the effect is ideal for novice users. Those that are not familiar with audio editing they are very likely to be familiar with Bass and Treble controls. I agree that there may be some users that may want the old BassBoost effect, so what I would suggest is that rather than imposing a more complicated Bass and Treble effect on all users, we provide "Bass Boost" as an optional Nyquist plug-in on the wiki. There is still the loss of the "Preview" button, but they gain the benefit of an effect that does not clip at 0 dB. Nyquist version of Bass Boost attached. Steve On 10 December 2012 02:44, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > | Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:14:21 +0000 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect >> Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. >> >> The new patch includes the changes to LoadEffects.cpp and Makefile.in >> (I'm on Linux). >> Note that I'm replacing BassBoost, so if you don''t want to remove >> BassBosst these parts will need to be modified. >> I wasn't sure how to get the new files included in an svn diff, but >> now I've found that I just needed to use svn add. >> >> The effect uses two biquad shelf filters. The formula came from a >> Google search and other than minor differences in parameter names is >> the same formula as used in BassBoost. >> >> There are no "standards" for two band equalizers (tone controls) but >> generally they tend to be similar to those used here with fairly >> gradual slopes either side of about 1 kHz. In this effect the bass >> filter levels out at about 150 Hz, and the treble at about 8 kHz. The >> response can easily be visualised by applying to white noise and then >> using Plot Spectrum. The slope and filter frequencies were determined >> by looking at the frequency responses of as many 2 band equalizers >> that I could find documentation for. (so as to give the effect a >> "typical" response". >> >> I've removed the "Vim and Emacs" comment blocks. >> >> The problem regarding Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); has been fixed. >> >> The effect categry has been changed to EQPlugin >> >> I couldn't work out how to use AddNumericTextBox. My attempts to do so >> caused segmentation faults and I could find no examples of its use >> elsewhere in Audacity, so to fix the problem with typing a minus sign >> I validated against wxFILTER_NUMERIC. >> >> >> I think that's all the issues that have been raised. > > Thanks, all. I figured others might like to play with this, so for > anyone on Windows who doesn't compile you can test Steve's > effort (second patch) here: > http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v2.zip . > > +1 to this replacing BassBoost, but if so, I wonder if people are > going to say "I could choose the frequency before". > > Would it overcomplicate it for the users to have boxes that > "adjusted" the bass and treble frequency somewhat, sliders > centred on zero (no adjustment)? Or let them choose frequency > explicitly? It would still be "simpler" than EQ. > > I appreciate e.g. the bass amplification spreads much wider than > 150 Hz (and from what I can see, choosing "1000 Hz" in Bass Boost > didn't amplify 1000 Hz much more than BassTreble does). But > mightn't it be nicer if you could "target" the boost more on a > particular bass or treble frequency (a bit like the opposite of > Notch Filter)? > > This would not be "like" bass and treble controls, but does it > have to be like those? > > > > Gale > > > >> On 9 December 2012 00:47, Martyn Shaw <mar...@gm...> wrote: >> > Hi Steve >> > >> > Nice piece of work! >> > >> > And thanks to Richard for making it easily accessible. >> > >> > I applied the patch on Windows, added the 2 files to the src/effects section >> > of the Audacity solution and it just compiled and ran! Well, almost. There >> > was an error but changing >> > Pi = 4 * atan(1); >> > to >> > Pi = 4.0 * atan(1.0); >> > fixed that. I always put '1.' or '1.0' if I mean something is a float, and >> > that seems to un-confuse the compiler. >> > >> > I've had a quick look through the code and it looks pretty good. A couple >> > of things that you need to change: >> > >> > * We need to be able to type a minus sign into the boxes but the validator >> > won't let us. I think you can use AddNumericTextBox instead of AddTextBox >> > and then not have any of the Validator code. I see why it's there (copy and >> > paste from BassBoost), but you can allow '+' and '-', which is what >> > AddNumericTextBox does behind the scenes. >> > >> > * I don't think that 'GetEffectCategories' is in use, but if/when it is, is >> > this the right category? Probably not. >> > >> > Other than that, the code looks good to me! >> > >> > >> > On 07/12/2012 20:20, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >> >> >> >> This is my first attempt at writing more than a couple of lines of C++ >> >> so I hope you'll be gentle with me :=) >> >> >> >> Although Audacity has a "Bass Boost" effect we quite often get asked >> >> on the forum how to reduce bass, boost treble or reduce treble. It has >> >> also struck me as quite odd that out of these 4, only Bass Boost is >> >> provided. >> > >> > >> > An historical thing, I'm sure. Bass Boost has been around a lot longer than >> > me! I'd be happy to see it replaced with this. >> > >> > This code has one less parameter, the frequency. I'm sure that some will >> > argue that this is a loss. I do not thing that this should be added to this >> > effect, or it will make it more complex than the original idea was looking >> > for. >> > >> > >> >> The Equalization effect can provide these options, but often the power >> >> and complexity of the Equalization effect is way over the top for >> >> someone that just wants to turn the bass/treble up or down a bit. >> > >> > >> > Indeed. >> > >> > >> >> Attached is my attempt at providing a replacement for Bass Boost. It >> >> is a simple Bass/Treble effect - just two sliders, one for bass, one >> >> for treble, like on a hi-fi amp. +/- 15 dB on each. >> > >> > >> > There could be a whole different thread about the actual parameters to use >> > for this effect, but let's keep that off this one and stick to code. >> > >> > I take it that the bi-quad code is taken from previously tested stuff? I >> > didn't look too closely at it. >> > >> > TTFN >> > Martyn >> > >> >> Unlike Bass Boost, if tracks are 32 bit float format the effect does >> >> not clip at 0 dB, making it easier for users to recover from overdoing >> >> the boost. >> >> >> >> I've only provided the .cpp and .h files as I'm not sure what else is >> >> required for building cross-platform. >> >> >> >> Steve > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d _______________________________________________ audacity-devel mailing list aud...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
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From: Gale (A. Team) <ga...@au...> - 2013-01-03 04:43:35
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"Stevethefiddle" wrote: > I agree that there may be some users that may want the old BassBoost > effect, so what I would suggest is that rather than imposing a more > complicated Bass and Treble effect on all users, we provide "Bass > Boost" as an optional Nyquist plug-in on the wiki. There is still the > loss of the "Preview" button, but they gain the benefit of an effect > that does not clip at 0 dB. > > Nyquist version of Bass Boost attached. Thanks. Uploaded and documented here: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Nyquist_Plug-in_Packs_and_Legacy_Plug-ins#Bass_Boost . Gale -- View this message in context: http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/Bass-and-Treble-effect-tp7556814p7557129.html Sent from the audacity-devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
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From: Richard A. <ri...@au...> - 2012-12-13 15:20:49
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On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 02:10:43 +0000
Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> Your comment is extremely interesting. I presume that you mean
> "EffectSimpleMono" ?
Yes, I didn't have the Audacity source in front of me at the time.
> One of the major drawbacks for Nyquist effect
> plug-ins is the lack of "Preview". There are dozens of Nyquist effect
> plug-ins for which the ability to preview would be a godsend.
> I've had a look but I can't work out whether "Preview" would be
> possible or not. I noticed your "disclaimer" with the words "I think",
> and was wondering if could confirm if this actually is the case.
I had hoped that the structure was a bit more OO than it actually is.
Conceptually, in all the effects that I've looked at, the OnPreview()
method (which is hooked to the Preview button) does the same thing:
OnPreview()
{
save_the_previous_effect_parameters();
// gets control settings from UI into effect
TransferDataFromWindow();
mEffect->Preview();
restore_the_previous_effect_parameters();
}
The reason they are saving and restoring settings is in order to leave
the effect in the state we found it if the user cancels (except for
effects which don't do this ...).
This is a standard pattern, so we shouldn't have to write it in every
effect, rather in some sort of master template/superclass. I haven't
looked at the details, but my idea is to see if there isn't a sensible
way to implement save_the_previous_effect_parameters() and
restore_the_previous_effect_parameters() as generic code which takes
the ShuttleGui object as it's sole parameter and stores whatever it
finds there. This might also have relevance to commands (which need to
provide the effect settings externally) and chains (which need to do
both read and write of settings).
If we can do that, then the code in ::OnPreview() becomes not just the
same pattern, but actually the same in all the effects, and we can put
in in the superclass for all ShuttleGui effects (there may not be one,
but this may be an excuse to shuttle-ise some legacy code and/or create
one).
If we can do that, then there seems no good reason not to derive
the NyquistEffect class from the same parent, thus giving it (or at
least the Chain-able ones) preview support.
There seems to be more work than I had hoped for here (because there is
less infrastructure in place than I hoped), but all the steps should be
ones that lead to a smaller code base at the end of it!
Richard
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From: Norm C <n_b...@ho...> - 2012-12-14 02:37:23
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This discussion prompts me to chime in earlier than I was planning to, but: I have a Parametric EQ effect that I've been using for a while and had planned on seeing whether there's interest in getting it into the Audacity mainline. It's a pretty standard parametric: high and low shelves, plus 3 cut/boost filters. All 5 have controllable frequency, gain and bandwidth. Being a native Effect it has Preview for free. It also has all the capability of the proposed Bass/Treble effect (and the Bass Boost, obviously) plus a good deal more. Perhaps the extra stuff would be too complex for a novice user, but all they have to do is set the cut/boost gains to 0 and then they're left with pretty much as has been proposed for the Bass/Treble plugin. In the way of justification, CoolEdit Pro / Audition has a pretty similar effect, though with a few more options. And the frequency response graph is pretty useful. And I've found the Parametric Filter very useful while producing quite a few multitrack songs lately. Thoughts? Should I modify this effect (simplify/expand/other) and accelerate my testing of it, and get it in soon, rather than a Bass/Treble with less capability and no Preview (albeit a much simpler UI)? Norm <http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/file/n7556900/ParamFilter.png> -- View this message in context: http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/Bass-and-Treble-effect-tp7556814p7556900.html Sent from the audacity-devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2012-12-14 12:34:24
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On 14 December 2012 02:37, Norm C <n_b...@ho...> wrote: > This discussion prompts me to chime in earlier than I was planning to, but: I > have a Parametric EQ effect that I've been using for a while and had planned > on seeing whether there's interest in getting it into the Audacity mainline. > It's a pretty standard parametric: high and low shelves, plus 3 cut/boost > filters. All 5 have controllable frequency, gain and bandwidth. Being a > native Effect it has Preview for free. Thanks for the input but I think you've missed the point a bit. The discussion re. not having "Preview" was with regard to providing "Bass Boost" as an optional (downloadable) Nyquist plug-in for any users that particularly want the old Bass Boost effect. Nyquist plug-ins do not currently have preview. The Bass and Treble effect being considered is a built in effect (as per the submitted patch). It is intended to be suitable for complete novices, which is why I have limited the user interface options to those that will be familiar to all users. As a built in "EffectSimpleMono" it does have Preview. Personally I'd love to see parametric Eq. as per channel real time effects in the Mixer Board, but that is a different discussion. Steve > > It also has all the capability of the proposed Bass/Treble effect (and the > Bass Boost, obviously) plus a good deal more. Perhaps the extra stuff would > be too complex for a novice user, but all they have to do is set the > cut/boost gains to 0 and then they're left with pretty much as has been > proposed for the Bass/Treble plugin. > > In the way of justification, CoolEdit Pro / Audition has a pretty similar > effect, though with a few more options. And the frequency response graph is > pretty useful. > > And I've found the Parametric Filter very useful while producing quite a few > multitrack songs lately. > > Thoughts? Should I modify this effect (simplify/expand/other) and accelerate > my testing of it, and get it in soon, rather than a Bass/Treble with less > capability and no Preview (albeit a much simpler UI)? > > Norm > > <http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/file/n7556900/ParamFilter.png> > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/Bass-and-Treble-effect-tp7556814p7556900.html > Sent from the audacity-devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2012-12-16 00:46:22
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| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:34:18 +0000 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > On 14 December 2012 02:37, Norm C <n_b...@ho...> wrote: > > This discussion prompts me to chime in earlier than I was planning to, but: I > > have a Parametric EQ effect that I've been using for a while and had planned > > on seeing whether there's interest in getting it into the Audacity mainline. > > It's a pretty standard parametric: high and low shelves, plus 3 cut/boost > > filters. All 5 have controllable frequency, gain and bandwidth. Being a > > native Effect it has Preview for free. > > Thanks for the input but I think you've missed the point a bit. The > discussion re. not having "Preview" was with regard to providing "Bass > Boost" as an optional (downloadable) Nyquist plug-in for any users > that particularly want the old Bass Boost effect. Or, provide them with an optional downloadable Nyquist plug-in that is the proposed Bass Treble with the option of some kind of frequency adjustment for each of bass and treble. This assumes a single frequency control for bass and treble would be effective, but I still haven't seen Steve's opinion on that. > The Bass and Treble effect being considered is a built in effect (as > per the submitted patch). It is intended to be suitable for complete > novices, which is why I have limited the user interface options to > those that will be familiar to all users. I think the discussion is about the level of complexity wanted in alternatives to the current Equalizer. I principle I prefer Norm's suggested Parametric EQ to the suggested slimmed down "alternative" Graphic EQ: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Graphic_Equalizer_-_simple . I think Norm's version might benefit from presets for genre (like you see in many EQ's in software audio players) but possibly without the complication of saving and loading presets. To me, Norm's Parametric EQ belongs as a second alternative "simpler" EQ, not as a replacement for Bass - Treble where Steve is trying to emulate bass and treble controls on an amplifier. I remain very unconvinced it needs to be as "simple" as two controls (not least it's not rich GUI so doesn't even look like a pair of knobs). :=) But (subject to code review) I'd be happy to see it committed and see what the reaction is (if any) to the loss of frequency control. Gale > Personally I'd love to see parametric Eq. as per channel real time > effects in the Mixer Board, but that is a different discussion. > > Steve > > > > > > It also has all the capability of the proposed Bass/Treble effect (and the > > Bass Boost, obviously) plus a good deal more. Perhaps the extra stuff would > > be too complex for a novice user, but all they have to do is set the > > cut/boost gains to 0 and then they're left with pretty much as has been > > proposed for the Bass/Treble plugin. > > > > In the way of justification, CoolEdit Pro / Audition has a pretty similar > > effect, though with a few more options. And the frequency response graph is > > pretty useful. > > > > And I've found the Parametric Filter very useful while producing quite a few > > multitrack songs lately. > > > > Thoughts? Should I modify this effect (simplify/expand/other) and accelerate > > my testing of it, and get it in soon, rather than a Bass/Treble with less > > capability and no Preview (albeit a much simpler UI)? > > > > Norm > > > > <http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/file/n7556900/ParamFilter.png> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/Bass-and-Treble-effect-tp7556814p7556900.html > > Sent from the audacity-devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2012-12-16 03:01:23
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On 16 December 2012 00:45, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > | Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:34:18 +0000 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect >> On 14 December 2012 02:37, Norm C <n_b...@ho...> wrote: >> > This discussion prompts me to chime in earlier than I was planning to, but: I >> > have a Parametric EQ effect that I've been using for a while and had planned >> > on seeing whether there's interest in getting it into the Audacity mainline. >> > It's a pretty standard parametric: high and low shelves, plus 3 cut/boost >> > filters. All 5 have controllable frequency, gain and bandwidth. Being a >> > native Effect it has Preview for free. >> >> Thanks for the input but I think you've missed the point a bit. The >> discussion re. not having "Preview" was with regard to providing "Bass >> Boost" as an optional (downloadable) Nyquist plug-in for any users >> that particularly want the old Bass Boost effect. > > Or, provide them with an optional downloadable Nyquist plug-in > that is the proposed Bass Treble with the option of some kind > of frequency adjustment for each of bass and treble. > > This assumes a single frequency control for bass and treble > would be effective, but I still haven't seen Steve's opinion on > that. As a simple "tone control" the Bass and Treble effect has preset frequency and slope parameters for the high shelf and low shelf filters such that the bass and treble affect frequencies either side of about 1 kHz, (which is typical for bass and treble controls). If any of the frequency or slope parameters are changed then this relationship is lost. I don't really see much point in having variable frequency low and high shelf filters unless the slope for each is also adjustable, but then that leaves an obvious gap in functionality in that there is no "mid" control. I think this is one case where a half way house is neither here nor there. > > >> The Bass and Treble effect being considered is a built in effect (as >> per the submitted patch). It is intended to be suitable for complete >> novices, which is why I have limited the user interface options to >> those that will be familiar to all users. > > I think the discussion is about the level of complexity wanted in > alternatives to the current Equalizer. That is not what I was discussing, though I agree that it probably is worth discussing. I thought that this thread was about replacing the Bass Boost effect with a Bass and Treble effect. I look forward to seeing Norm's parametric Eq. but I think that it deserves to be discussed separately. Steve > > I principle I prefer Norm's suggested Parametric EQ to the suggested > slimmed down "alternative" Graphic EQ: > http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Graphic_Equalizer_-_simple . > > I think Norm's version might benefit from presets for genre (like > you see in many EQ's in software audio players) but possibly > without the complication of saving and loading presets. > > To me, Norm's Parametric EQ belongs as a second alternative > "simpler" EQ, not as a replacement for Bass - Treble where > Steve is trying to emulate bass and treble controls on an > amplifier. I remain very unconvinced it needs to be as "simple" > as two controls (not least it's not rich GUI so doesn't even > look like a pair of knobs). :=) > > But (subject to code review) I'd be happy to see it committed > and see what the reaction is (if any) to the loss of frequency > control. > > > > > Gale > > > >> Personally I'd love to see parametric Eq. as per channel real time >> effects in the Mixer Board, but that is a different discussion. >> >> Steve >> >> >> > >> > It also has all the capability of the proposed Bass/Treble effect (and the >> > Bass Boost, obviously) plus a good deal more. Perhaps the extra stuff would >> > be too complex for a novice user, but all they have to do is set the >> > cut/boost gains to 0 and then they're left with pretty much as has been >> > proposed for the Bass/Treble plugin. >> > >> > In the way of justification, CoolEdit Pro / Audition has a pretty similar >> > effect, though with a few more options. And the frequency response graph is >> > pretty useful. >> > >> > And I've found the Parametric Filter very useful while producing quite a few >> > multitrack songs lately. >> > >> > Thoughts? Should I modify this effect (simplify/expand/other) and accelerate >> > my testing of it, and get it in soon, rather than a Bass/Treble with less >> > capability and no Preview (albeit a much simpler UI)? >> > >> > Norm >> > >> > <http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/file/n7556900/ParamFilter.png> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > View this message in context: http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/Bass-and-Treble-effect-tp7556814p7556900.html >> > Sent from the audacity-devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2012-12-16 23:53:19
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| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Sun, 16 Dec 2012 03:01:16 +0000 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > On 16 December 2012 00:45, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > > | Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:34:18 +0000 > > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > >> On 14 December 2012 02:37, Norm C <n_b...@ho...> wrote: > >> > This discussion prompts me to chime in earlier than I was planning to, but: I > >> > have a Parametric EQ effect that I've been using for a while and had planned > >> > on seeing whether there's interest in getting it into the Audacity mainline. > >> > It's a pretty standard parametric: high and low shelves, plus 3 cut/boost > >> > filters. All 5 have controllable frequency, gain and bandwidth. Being a > >> > native Effect it has Preview for free. > >> > >> Thanks for the input but I think you've missed the point a bit. The > >> discussion re. not having "Preview" was with regard to providing "Bass > >> Boost" as an optional (downloadable) Nyquist plug-in for any users > >> that particularly want the old Bass Boost effect. > > > > Or, provide them with an optional downloadable Nyquist plug-in > > that is the proposed Bass Treble with the option of some kind > > of frequency adjustment for each of bass and treble. > > > > This assumes a single frequency control for bass and treble > > would be effective, but I still haven't seen Steve's opinion on > > that. > > As a simple "tone control" the Bass and Treble effect has preset > frequency and slope parameters for the high shelf and low shelf > filters such that the bass and treble affect frequencies either side > of about 1 kHz, (which is typical for bass and treble controls). If > any of the frequency or slope parameters are changed then this > relationship is lost. I don't really see much point in having variable > frequency low and high shelf filters unless the slope for each is also > adjustable, but then that leaves an obvious gap in functionality in > that there is no "mid" control. I think this is one case where a half > way house is neither here nor there. OK, but another possibility would be a "mid" slider but still without a frequency control, so still "simple"? This can be very useful for directly reducing "tinny" quality, the only other solution to which is covering the tinniness with bass increase. A treble reduction in Bass - Treble helps, but reducing the mid is better. Of course Norm's version does at the moment have (three) mid controls. > >> The Bass and Treble effect being considered is a built in effect (as > >> per the submitted patch). It is intended to be suitable for complete > >> novices, which is why I have limited the user interface options to > >> those that will be familiar to all users. > > > > I think the discussion is about the level of complexity wanted in > > alternatives to the current Equalizer. > > That is not what I was discussing, though I agree that it probably is > worth discussing. > I thought that this thread was about replacing the Bass Boost effect > with a Bass and Treble effect. Since Bass - Treble is a candidate as a simple alternative to EQ, I think we are discussing what the simplest alternative should do. Again, I've no problem in committing Bass - Treble and seeing what the real world thinks of it. > I look forward to seeing Norm's parametric Eq. but I think that it > deserves to be discussed separately. Yes, if it does not replace Bass - Treble. I don't think it should do so, unless we don't want a second EQ of moderate difficulty. I'm +1 on a second EQ, and I think the overall gain indicator in Norm's Parametric EQ is a great idea. Gale > > I principle I prefer Norm's suggested Parametric EQ to the suggested > > slimmed down "alternative" Graphic EQ: > > http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Graphic_Equalizer_-_simple . > > > > I think Norm's version might benefit from presets for genre (like > > you see in many EQ's in software audio players) but possibly > > without the complication of saving and loading presets. > > > > To me, Norm's Parametric EQ belongs as a second alternative > > "simpler" EQ, not as a replacement for Bass - Treble where > > Steve is trying to emulate bass and treble controls on an > > amplifier. I remain very unconvinced it needs to be as "simple" > > as two controls (not least it's not rich GUI so doesn't even > > look like a pair of knobs). :=) > > > > But (subject to code review) I'd be happy to see it committed > > and see what the reaction is (if any) to the loss of frequency > > control. > > > > > > > > > > Gale > > > > > > > >> Personally I'd love to see parametric Eq. as per channel real time > >> effects in the Mixer Board, but that is a different discussion. > >> > >> Steve > >> > >> > >> > > >> > It also has all the capability of the proposed Bass/Treble effect (and the > >> > Bass Boost, obviously) plus a good deal more. Perhaps the extra stuff would > >> > be too complex for a novice user, but all they have to do is set the > >> > cut/boost gains to 0 and then they're left with pretty much as has been > >> > proposed for the Bass/Treble plugin. > >> > > >> > In the way of justification, CoolEdit Pro / Audition has a pretty similar > >> > effect, though with a few more options. And the frequency response graph is > >> > pretty useful. > >> > > >> > And I've found the Parametric Filter very useful while producing quite a few > >> > multitrack songs lately. > >> > > >> > Thoughts? Should I modify this effect (simplify/expand/other) and accelerate > >> > my testing of it, and get it in soon, rather than a Bass/Treble with less > >> > capability and no Preview (albeit a much simpler UI)? > >> > > >> > Norm > >> > > >> > <http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/file/n7556900/ParamFilter.png> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > View this message in context: http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/Bass-and-Treble-effect-tp7556814p7556900.html > >> > Sent from the audacity-devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2012-12-18 00:54:54
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| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:00:59 +0000 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > Updated version of "Bass and Treble" effect. > > Changes: > > The half gain low shelf frequency is a little lower and the half gain > high shelf frequency is a little higher. > This makes the bass setting a bit more "bassy" and the treble setting > a bit more "trebly". > The filter slopes have been slightly reduced so that a smooth response > across the audio range is maintained. > > A "Gain" slider control has been added. > This allows users to compensate for the inevitable overall change in > gain when applying frequency boost or cut. > > These changes also makes it easier to adjust the mid-frequency range: > As with a conventional Bass/Treble control on an amplifier of music > player, to increase the mid frequencies, simply turn down the bass and > treble and turn the "volume" (gain slider) up a bit. To reduce the > mid-frequencies, turn up the bass and treble and turn the "volume" > (gain) down a bit. > > Fringe benefit: The Bass control now behaves a little more like the > default settings of the old "Bass Boost" effect. > > Unless there are problems that I am not aware of, I expect this to be > my "final" version of this effect. > > Steve Thanks, Steve. Here is a Windows build for anyone who may need it: http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v3.zip . I'm not sure the gain slider is an improvement for the rank novices you are targeting. Will they know what the word "gain" means? If they figure out it increases or reduces the volume, won't they get confused/disappointed if they for example set bass to +8 dB then gain to -8 dB and the track ends up too quiet? If one is trying to get the peak to 0 dB or close you still have to experiment with the gain to get it right. Would a checkbox to normalize to a chosen level be more useful? My personal reaction on trying to fix a number of tinny sounding songs here is that turning up bass and treble and turning down the volume as you might do in the absence of an equalizer is a poor substitute for an actual control for the mid frequencies. We don't have to have a mid control (the effect is called "Bass and Treble" after all) but I think volume adjustment should stand or not on its own merits of adjusting the volume. Should you add a balance control and make it like the four controls on an amplifier? I don't think so because I still see the value of this as a "very simple EQ", but I wonder if you considered it. One other thing - should we write the settings to .cfg? I assume people who used Bass Boost were doing just that and may want to continue doing so. A flat initialised setting for each session could be irritating for such people. Gale |
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2012-12-18 03:10:19
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On 18 December 2012 00:54, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > | Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:00:59 +0000 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect >> Updated version of "Bass and Treble" effect. >> >> Changes: >> >> The half gain low shelf frequency is a little lower and the half gain >> high shelf frequency is a little higher. >> This makes the bass setting a bit more "bassy" and the treble setting >> a bit more "trebly". >> The filter slopes have been slightly reduced so that a smooth response >> across the audio range is maintained. >> >> A "Gain" slider control has been added. >> This allows users to compensate for the inevitable overall change in >> gain when applying frequency boost or cut. >> >> These changes also makes it easier to adjust the mid-frequency range: >> As with a conventional Bass/Treble control on an amplifier of music >> player, to increase the mid frequencies, simply turn down the bass and >> treble and turn the "volume" (gain slider) up a bit. To reduce the >> mid-frequencies, turn up the bass and treble and turn the "volume" >> (gain) down a bit. >> >> Fringe benefit: The Bass control now behaves a little more like the >> default settings of the old "Bass Boost" effect. >> >> Unless there are problems that I am not aware of, I expect this to be >> my "final" version of this effect. >> >> Steve > > Thanks, Steve. > > Here is a Windows build for anyone who may need it: > http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v3.zip . Thanks Gale > > I'm not sure the gain slider is an improvement for the rank > novices you are targeting. Will they know what the word "gain" > means? I would hope so as we use the term throughout the manual (e.g. http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/audio_tracks.html#gain) > > If they figure out it increases or reduces the volume, won't they > get confused/disappointed if they for example set bass to +8 dB > then gain to -8 dB and the track ends up too quiet? If one is > trying to get the peak to 0 dB or close you still have to experiment > with the gain to get it right. Would a checkbox to normalize to a > chosen level be more useful? Probably not, because we then need to decide how to handle multiple selected tracks. If the effect is applied to multiple tracks then one may not want to amplify each track by different amounts. The "gain" slider is just a matter of convenience. I added it because while I was using the "Bass and Treble" effect I kept thinking "I wish this had a gain control". > > My personal reaction on trying to fix a number of tinny sounding > songs here is that turning up bass and treble and turning down > the volume as you might do in the absence of an equalizer is a > poor substitute for an actual control for the mid frequencies. How do you cope with your hi-fi? Of course, many users will be happy to use the Equalizer, but if you just want to quickly push the bass or treble up or down a bit, then this is a lot more convenient. > > We don't have to have a mid control (the effect is called "Bass > and Treble" after all) but I think volume adjustment should stand > or not on its own merits of adjusting the volume. Yes. It is a convenience. After a short while using the effect without a gain control it soon becomes tedious that you can't, for example, increase the bass without the level going above 0 dB. The gain control is not intended to replace the Amplify or Normalize effects, it just means that while you are previewing the effect, if it starts clipping you can pull down the gain without the need to cancel the effect, apply Amplify, then re-select the effect, > > Should you add a balance control and make it like the four controls > on an amplifier? I don't think so because I still see the value of this > as a "very simple EQ", but I wonder if you considered it. It's a bass and treble (tone) control. We already have "pan" for panning (balance). > > One other thing - should we write the settings to .cfg? I assume > people who used Bass Boost were doing just that and may want > to continue doing so. A flat initialised setting for each session > could be irritating for such people. I guess that depends if the user is in the habit of "zeroing the desk" after use (or not). (Bass Boost does not write settings to .cfg) Steve > > > > > Gale > |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2012-12-19 01:18:07
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| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Tue, 18 Dec 2012 03:10:12 +0000 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > On 18 December 2012 00:54, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > > | Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:00:59 +0000 > > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect > >> Updated version of "Bass and Treble" effect. > >> > >> Changes: > >> > >> The half gain low shelf frequency is a little lower and the half gain > >> high shelf frequency is a little higher. > >> This makes the bass setting a bit more "bassy" and the treble setting > >> a bit more "trebly". > >> The filter slopes have been slightly reduced so that a smooth response > >> across the audio range is maintained. > >> > >> A "Gain" slider control has been added. > >> This allows users to compensate for the inevitable overall change in > >> gain when applying frequency boost or cut. > >> > >> These changes also makes it easier to adjust the mid-frequency range: > >> As with a conventional Bass/Treble control on an amplifier of music > >> player, to increase the mid frequencies, simply turn down the bass and > >> treble and turn the "volume" (gain slider) up a bit. To reduce the > >> mid-frequencies, turn up the bass and treble and turn the "volume" > >> (gain) down a bit. > >> > >> Fringe benefit: The Bass control now behaves a little more like the > >> default settings of the old "Bass Boost" effect. > >> > >> Unless there are problems that I am not aware of, I expect this to be > >> my "final" version of this effect. > >> > >> Steve > > > > Thanks, Steve. > > > > Here is a Windows build for anyone who may need it: > > http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v3.zip . > > Thanks Gale > > > > > I'm not sure the gain slider is an improvement for the rank > > novices you are targeting. Will they know what the word "gain" > > means? > > I would hope so as we use the term throughout the manual > (e.g. http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/audio_tracks.html#gain) That's mainly my question throughout - if we are oversimplifying this effect. The user new to computers won't get far with Audacity if they expect familiarity with an amplifier or MP3 player. > > If they figure out it increases or reduces the volume, won't they > > get confused/disappointed if they for example set bass to +8 dB > > then gain to -8 dB and the track ends up too quiet? If one is > > trying to get the peak to 0 dB or close you still have to experiment > > with the gain to get it right. Would a checkbox to normalize to a > > chosen level be more useful? > > Probably not, because we then need to decide how to handle multiple > selected tracks. > If the effect is applied to multiple tracks then one may not want to > amplify each track by different amounts. Should we scale to 0 dB then (or a selectable level) like Amplify? > The "gain" slider is just a matter of convenience. I added it because > while I was using the "Bass and Treble" effect I kept thinking "I wish > this had a gain control". It's a convenience, but I think it has potential issues for novices (for example they could boost the volume to excess, thinking they could do it "safely" if they reduced the treble by the same amount). I just wanted to be sure you'd considered that. > > My personal reaction on trying to fix a number of tinny sounding > > songs here is that turning up bass and treble and turning down > > the volume as you might do in the absence of an equalizer is a > > poor substitute for an actual control for the mid frequencies. > > How do you cope with your hi-fi? > Of course, many users will be happy to use the Equalizer, but if you > just want to quickly push the bass or treble up or down a bit, then > this is a lot more convenient. I use my HiFi to play analogue LP's and accept I cannot EQ as I might like, or to listen to digital media files processed in Audacity (often LP transfers) where I was able to EQ as I wished. It's one of the compensating advantages of digital. The suggestion (no more than that) was just that a mid frequency control could be useful in an effect that's offering very basic frequency adjustment. If we get a "second simple EQ" sometime then the lack of a mid adjustment in "Bass and Treble" matters a lot less. > > We don't have to have a mid control (the effect is called "Bass > > and Treble" after all) but I think volume adjustment should stand > > or not on its own merits of adjusting the volume. > > Yes. It is a convenience. After a short while using the effect without > a gain control it soon becomes tedious that you can't, for example, > increase the bass without the level going above 0 dB. The gain control > is not intended to replace the Amplify or Normalize effects, it just > means that while you are previewing the effect, if it starts clipping > you can pull down the gain without the need to cancel the effect, > apply Amplify, then re-select the effect, OK, I accept that, but without preview being sent to the playback meters you can never really tell if the result is going to clip or not until you play the processed waveform. Hence the suggestion for normalizing or scaling which takes all the guesswork out of it. > > Should you add a balance control and make it like the four controls > > on an amplifier? I don't think so because I still see the value of this > > as a "very simple EQ", but I wonder if you considered it. > > It's a bass and treble (tone) control. > > We already have "pan" for panning (balance). > > > One other thing - should we write the settings to .cfg? I assume > > people who used Bass Boost were doing just that and may want > > to continue doing so. A flat initialised setting for each session > > could be irritating for such people. > > I guess that depends if the user is in the habit of "zeroing the desk" > after use (or not). > (Bass Boost does not write settings to .cfg) I know Bass Boost does not write to .cfg, but I worry a bit about the current users of that effect. We are already removing the frequency control (alright, let's see what happens with user reaction). But then we want users of Bass Boost to be forced to adjust the controls as well, whereas before they could if desired get some kind of bass boost just by pressing "OK". So especially if Bass Boost is the most common quick EQ you'd want to do, I think writing to Prefs should be considered - at least for a future iteration. After all, EQ stores the curve, and you can be pretty sure no-one would apply Bass - Treble with the settings it initialises to. Gale |
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2012-12-19 02:49:53
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On 19 December 2012 01:17, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > | Tue, 18 Dec 2012 03:10:12 +0000 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect >> On 18 December 2012 00:54, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >> > >> > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >> > | Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:00:59 +0000 >> > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect >> >> Updated version of "Bass and Treble" effect. >> >> >> >> Changes: >> >> >> >> The half gain low shelf frequency is a little lower and the half gain >> >> high shelf frequency is a little higher. >> >> This makes the bass setting a bit more "bassy" and the treble setting >> >> a bit more "trebly". >> >> The filter slopes have been slightly reduced so that a smooth response >> >> across the audio range is maintained. >> >> >> >> A "Gain" slider control has been added. >> >> This allows users to compensate for the inevitable overall change in >> >> gain when applying frequency boost or cut. >> >> >> >> These changes also makes it easier to adjust the mid-frequency range: >> >> As with a conventional Bass/Treble control on an amplifier of music >> >> player, to increase the mid frequencies, simply turn down the bass and >> >> treble and turn the "volume" (gain slider) up a bit. To reduce the >> >> mid-frequencies, turn up the bass and treble and turn the "volume" >> >> (gain) down a bit. >> >> >> >> Fringe benefit: The Bass control now behaves a little more like the >> >> default settings of the old "Bass Boost" effect. >> >> >> >> Unless there are problems that I am not aware of, I expect this to be >> >> my "final" version of this effect. >> >> >> >> Steve >> > >> > Thanks, Steve. >> > >> > Here is a Windows build for anyone who may need it: >> > http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v3.zip . >> >> Thanks Gale >> >> > >> > I'm not sure the gain slider is an improvement for the rank >> > novices you are targeting. Will they know what the word "gain" >> > means? >> >> I would hope so as we use the term throughout the manual >> (e.g. http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/audio_tracks.html#gain) > > That's mainly my question throughout - if we are oversimplifying > this effect. The user new to computers won't get far with > Audacity if they expect familiarity with an amplifier or MP3 player. > > >> > If they figure out it increases or reduces the volume, won't they >> > get confused/disappointed if they for example set bass to +8 dB >> > then gain to -8 dB and the track ends up too quiet? If one is >> > trying to get the peak to 0 dB or close you still have to experiment >> > with the gain to get it right. Would a checkbox to normalize to a >> > chosen level be more useful? >> >> Probably not, because we then need to decide how to handle multiple >> selected tracks. >> If the effect is applied to multiple tracks then one may not want to >> amplify each track by different amounts. > > Should we scale to 0 dB then (or a selectable level) like Amplify? > > >> The "gain" slider is just a matter of convenience. I added it because >> while I was using the "Bass and Treble" effect I kept thinking "I wish >> this had a gain control". > > It's a convenience, but I think it has potential issues for novices > (for example they could boost the volume to excess, thinking they > could do it "safely" if they reduced the treble by the same amount). > > I just wanted to be sure you'd considered that. > > >> > My personal reaction on trying to fix a number of tinny sounding >> > songs here is that turning up bass and treble and turning down >> > the volume as you might do in the absence of an equalizer is a >> > poor substitute for an actual control for the mid frequencies. >> >> How do you cope with your hi-fi? >> Of course, many users will be happy to use the Equalizer, but if you >> just want to quickly push the bass or treble up or down a bit, then >> this is a lot more convenient. > > I use my HiFi to play analogue LP's and accept I cannot EQ as I > might like, or to listen to digital media files processed in Audacity > (often LP transfers) where I was able to EQ as I wished. It's one > of the compensating advantages of digital. > > The suggestion (no more than that) was just that a mid frequency > control could be useful in an effect that's offering very basic > frequency adjustment. If we get a "second simple EQ" sometime > then the lack of a mid adjustment in "Bass and Treble" matters a lot > less. > > >> > We don't have to have a mid control (the effect is called "Bass >> > and Treble" after all) but I think volume adjustment should stand >> > or not on its own merits of adjusting the volume. >> >> Yes. It is a convenience. After a short while using the effect without >> a gain control it soon becomes tedious that you can't, for example, >> increase the bass without the level going above 0 dB. The gain control >> is not intended to replace the Amplify or Normalize effects, it just >> means that while you are previewing the effect, if it starts clipping >> you can pull down the gain without the need to cancel the effect, >> apply Amplify, then re-select the effect, > > OK, I accept that, but without preview being sent to the playback > meters you can never really tell if the result is going to clip or > not until you play the processed waveform. Hence the suggestion > for normalizing or scaling which takes all the guesswork out of it. > > >> > Should you add a balance control and make it like the four controls >> > on an amplifier? I don't think so because I still see the value of this >> > as a "very simple EQ", but I wonder if you considered it. >> >> It's a bass and treble (tone) control. >> >> We already have "pan" for panning (balance). >> >> > One other thing - should we write the settings to .cfg? I assume >> > people who used Bass Boost were doing just that and may want >> > to continue doing so. A flat initialised setting for each session >> > could be irritating for such people. >> >> I guess that depends if the user is in the habit of "zeroing the desk" >> after use (or not). >> (Bass Boost does not write settings to .cfg) > > I know Bass Boost does not write to .cfg, but I worry a bit about > the current users of that effect. We are already removing the > frequency control (alright, let's see what happens with user > reaction). But then we want users of Bass Boost to be forced > to adjust the controls as well, whereas before they could if > desired get some kind of bass boost just by pressing "OK". Let's not forget that if the original audio is much over -6 dB peak, then the default settings of Bass Boost will cause permanent damage due to clipping that can only be fixed with "Undo". Steve > > So especially if Bass Boost is the most common quick EQ you'd > want to do, I think writing to Prefs should be considered - at > least for a future iteration. After all, EQ stores the curve, and > you can be pretty sure no-one would apply Bass - Treble with > the settings it initialises to. > > > > > Gale > |
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