#8 [Feature request] Show radar range of other ATCs

[Progman]

In OpenRadar you can see the radar range of other ATCs. This way you can see when you should/can send a flight strip to the other ATC. For incoming traffic this might be an indicator when you should deal with the aircraft or if the aircraft is still in control of the other ATC.

For these reasons it should be possible to see the radar range of the other ATCs on the radar. For SOLO mode, specially for APP or CTR solo mode, the ATC radar range should be visible as well to see when I can send the flight strip to the other ATC instead of getting the error message all the time telling me the aircraft is too far away.

[Michael Filhol]

Hi,
My first reaction to this request is that it is neither reliably possible (technically) with the current state of FGMS, nor realistic.

First, radar range seems NOT to be what you are actually after, since you mention the possibility for handoffs. If we are talking about a way to know if an ACFT is close enough to an ATC before handing it over, we are setting off on a very unrealistic path in my opinion because "handover range" is nonsensical in real life. Strips can be sent out wherever the system allows, or passed by hand to somebody in the next chair or floor below, and that is coordinated and expected by involved ATCs regardless of ACFT and ATC physical locations.

Then, radar range is almost never a relevant piece of information, and no ATC will permanently display it. Also, it is line-of-sight, so not normally a circle, and most of the time more than one radar signal is used to combine different sources, the overall coverage not resulting in anything as simple as a distance-to-centre value. Plus, unless you know the information from elsewhere, there is no way you can detect it from your position.

Now like you say, OpenRadar equates radar range (IRL mostly irrelevant) and handover range (IRL non-existant), and incidentally ASSUMES that everybody has a 100-NM range and LIMITS handoffs to ATCs that are {no} further than 180 NM away. I remember personally helping its developer Wolfram with the math to draw these arcs outlining "ATC ranges" in OpenRadar a few years ago. His proposed system has done a great deal to create the MP experience everybody has enjoyed since, and ATC-pie willingly made use of it afterwards to push it forward instead of disrupting anything. But Pie is meant as a simulator of real-life practice so I will not hard code any of those assumptions. This comes with compromise in user interaction; see the note on interoperability with OpenRadar.

Technically, radar range of an FGMS-connected client cannot reliably be known, unless you assume a 100 NM range which is no more a constant, not even per MP server. ATC-pie even lets you choose your range, and {OpenRadar} probably draws bad circles when an ATC-pie client connects nearby with a different value.

The question could however be pushed further for the solo mode you mention. I will check (I forgot since I wrote it) what information is given to the player in general, and see if anything forces the uncomfortable try-see-what-happens situation that you describe. To me, if the user knows what the rule is (distance thresholds and limits), she should set up her own tricks to know what to do. E.g. annotate the radar (SHIFT+double-click), use the measuring tool (right-click&drag), properly draw the approprate boudaries if she comes here often...

EDIT: {missing words}

[Michael Filhol]

Hi,
Back about the following solo mode issue I said I would check out:

I will check (I forgot since I wrote it) what information is given to the player in general, and see if anything forces the uncomfortable try-see-what-happens situation that you describe.

When you open up a new CTR solo scenario, you see four ATCs and know their position from the tooltip in the ATC list. Basically, all are respectively due N/W/E/S from the radar centre.

As for distance thresholds (when to hand over), you actually configure that ATC coordination aspect in the location settings, airspace rules tab: "hand over ACFT past <choice> NM from radar centre".

With this, my personal opinion is that there is enough there to know what to do.