A recent Nubie to EAA. Almost Embarrassed to ask this.
I have been using my Celestron 6se with Starsense to align and locate objects. Then using my Player One Uranus C Camera and Sharpcap 4.0 Pro to Live stack via my laptop at the Telescope.
My Starsense is close and I am usually able to find the item in my field of view without using an eyepiece.
I read that Astap with Sharpcap is an Essential.
There is only one other person in my area interested in EAA. We compare notes and exchange information. He is stuck at the same spot that I am.
I have downloaded Astap Platform and Database 18 and Installed them with ASCOM. The Test you can run in Sharpcap says its functioning.
SO what do I do with it now ?
I have Googled - Viewed Youtube videos - Read Cloudy Night Forums - Searched the forum here and I find much information about using it but nothing that shows how to get to the point of using it.
All the threads and videos seem to begin with it already hooked up and working. Big Gap.
I know there is a area for telescope control in Sharpcap.
Something must connect it to the telescope besides the camera cable - Right ?
Do I need another program or device ?
Will I still use Starsense hand control ?
Will I still use Starsense to align ?
So many others have figured it out but its got us baffled. I read raving reviews of how much its improved others experiences.
At age 70 these things just don't fall into place anymore. Afraid to mess up the working routine I have.
Thank You
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Mike,
It is very intimidating when you first start out with EAA. I think the piece that you are missing is that you need to also control the telescope mount from your computer. When it is all working you can select the object in sharpcap which then tells the telescope to go there. Sharpcap then starts taking pictures and sending then to ASTAP so that it knows which direction to nudge the telescope for getting the object centered.
For telescope control, you need a USB cable to connect your Celestron Handset to your computer. From Celestron, download the CPWI program (https://www.celestron.com/pages/celestron-pwi-telescope-control-software). With CPWI, you will use your computer to control the scope (Once connected, the handset doesn't do anything other than making the connection). CWPI knows how to use the starsense camera and it is more convenient because it loads the time and location from your computer.,
Also install the ASCOM software (https://ascom-standards.org/Downloads/Index.htm) which provides the driver that sharpcap will be looking for to control the scope. You may already have ASCOM installed if you needed it for the camera.
Also be aware that ASTAP can be sensitive to focus (focus first before using). It is also sensitive to field of view so be sure that you tell sharpcap what the focal length of your scope is.
-Bob
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It does seem that so many instructions are written for people who already know what to do.
Celestrons Starsense manual has so much missing info about some of its features. It will mention that its a feature but not what it does or how to use it.
Your message hit exactly where I was confused. I Made some progress tonight.
I downloaded CPWI and Installed.
I had a Mini USB to USB cable and I hooked it up per the instructions.
If I turn on the telescope first the controller finds the Ss Camera and GPS and Wants to Align with the handset. It looks just like normal.
Starting the software first then the telescope leaves the handset at Verifying Packages . Then when I start CPWI it makes 2 attempts to connect - and gives an error message that the connection was not made and instructs to check my connections etc.
Now the handset has changed the message BOOT LOADER SERIAL CFM REQUEST
I triple checked the connections against the diagram. They are correct.
I have been unable to find threads or google info with that error message other than one about a problem updating a different Handset.
3am here - off to bed - will start fresh in the late morning.
Again, thanks for helping me know what direction I needed to look to.
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Here is the order that I use....
1) power up the mount with the handset connected.
2) Connect the handset to the computer with the USB cable.
3) Start CPWI.
4) In CPWI, connect using the "Hand Controller" option - my guess is that you are missing this key point.
5) When CWPI makes the connection, the hand controller will say: "Boot Loader Serial Pass Through"
In CPWI, there is a connection option for "Mount USB", but that is used only for mounts that have a USB port allowing computer connection without using the hand controller.
-Bob
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Good Morning ( Here ) - Clear skys abound.
Very Puzzling
Just to confirm - I have been using the Hand Controller option.
While I have tried "other " orders of connection that has been my path.
Powered up - Starsence HC does its usual Verifying Packages - Counts down to about 25 and Displays waiting for Camera - GPS etc for a minute or so and comes to " Press Align to ..... as normal.
Plug in Cord from Mini PC in bottom of HC to USB port on Window 10 computer.
Start CPWI - then click Start option in bottom right corner of the start up square. Click on connection in Upper Left of the main CPWI screen - Click on Hand Controller - 6 options drop down and the icons spin - Changes to 3 icons - returns to no Icons - then Auto tries again - 6 spinning Icons - 3 Spinning Icons and message box in center of screen appears and tells....
"Unable to communicate with any Celestron Device."
also tells to check to make sure cables are connected etc
and in the last line says "Note Only Nexstar + and StarSense Hand Controllers are Supported. "
4-5 . The Press Align to ... Message that was on the HC gets replaced with " Boot Loader Serial CFM Request" - NOT "Boot Loader Serial Pass Through"
Thinking that maybe it was requesting Celestron Firmware Manager update ( IE CFM Request ) - I went thru that process and it verified that my HC was up to date. No Changes were made.
My HC version is 1.22.21333 that still shows on Celestron site to be latest.
Next thought was that maybe I had a bad cable ? BUT .. The CFM process requires 2 Mini USB to USB cables to connect. Since it completed successfully in verifies that both my cables are OK.
I do note that when connected ONLY from the Mount that the Ss process is normal. IF ONLY the cable from computer to bottom of the HC is connected that the HC shows Verifying Packages 29 . So it appears to be connecting from both ends.
Very Puzzling.
Thanks Again
MIKE in OREGON
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I would add that you don't want to be connecting the starsense camera to the PC. That interface is only used to update firmware.
True - its only attached to the 6se mount port when in system.
It was only connected in the loop for the CFM.
USB to HC - HC to Mount - Mount to Starsense - Starsense to PC.
Will read that thread in a bit - working on honey do's for another hour or so.
Thanks Again
Whoo Hoo
What an Adventure - LOL I would never have made it without you.
That Driver tip seemed so right. I tried the main one in the CN thread but continued to fail. Kept trying other orders of connection etc. Continued to Fail.
Downloaded the Older Prolific Driver from that thread and replaced the previous driver and Continued to Fail. Always the same messages. Hand Set still wanting Serial CFM Update .
Changed Ports - still a fail. Made at least 20 attempts and started trying different order of connection attempts etc.
After a 2AM Fail - I closed CPWI and went outside for a bit to sit in the dark and think about what else to try.
When I came in , I forgot that the Mount and Hand control was still on and still connected.
I restarted CPWI to look for the version info to be sure I had downloaded the latest. I clicked Connection / Hand Controller as usual and it brought up Its Center Starsense Screen. ???
Seemed a shame to shut it down but it was indoors and would do no good to let it run. So I shut down and tried again. FAIL
Thinking maybe it just needed additional time to percolate , I let it sit for 15 - 20 minutes as before - FAIL.
After more experimentation I eventually learned that I need to connect the mount to the handset and the handset to the computer. - then attempt to load CPWI and HAVE IT FAIL. Then, leave it hooked up to the mount - close CPWI - restart CPWI and connect ..... and it works.
**It has to fail and re initialize in order to connect. **
Makes no sense but it works. I confirmed it multiple times.
So....... I have browsed the left border features - and they work.
Now Twas 3:30 AM and cloudy so ... Off to bed.
I Cant THANK YOU enough for your help.
IF you still have time and patience with me, any additional info would be appreciated as Tonight I hope to figure out the Alignment options.
I usually use USER AUTO ALIGN with my hand control and I start it from a North East - Level Position to shoot between a Couple trees for the first image and then move to South and then South West for the other 2 Starsense images , but I see no option to get to my saved User Auto Align.
It requests to Point North to Start but so does the Starsense for my Hand Set Alignment and It doesn't seem to matter.
I do see the dome map option that allows you to set positions by click for the mount to move to for its starsense images.
SO... assuming I get it to aligned with CPWI .... what does CPWI do with Sharpcap now ?
I have been thru the Sharpcap Menus and in settings have set the ASTAP file location. I find no reference to CPWI in Sharpcap. Do they interact any more once aligned ?
In Sharpcap I have done the Check and Sharpcap confirms that ASTAP is connected. I have clicked on the Plate solve option in tools and it takes an image ( although just of the inside of the camera cap ) and fails of course because there no stars in the image. It does look like its ready.
So Happy to have made some progress !!
MIKE
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Mike,
Sorry. I forgot about that "always fails the first time" problem. I don't think you need to actually restart CPWI, just select connect using the "Hand Controller" a second time. I am actually using a Beta version of CPWI (2.3.4 beta 5) that seems to have that fixed. To find out about beta versions, you can join https://teamcelestron.com/ in that forum you can complain directly to Celestron software developers and it is also a good place to get support from other members. You can also find the 2.3.4 beta versions here: https://software.celestron.com/installers/CPWI/CPWI_2.4.3/. I am staying at Beta 5 for now because Beta 6 seemed to have more than the usual number of complaints. I see today that there is a Beta 7 version, but so far there is no discussion of that in Team Celestron, so I would stay away from that one also.
About StarSense. When you use CPWI, it doesn't pick up any information that you previously saved in the hand control. However, I don't think you need to re-calibrate the camera, because that info is saved in the camera itself. CPWI has a "custom points" menu item to set your alignment points. I don't actually use that my self because my observing location has pretty good views in all directions - I use auto four points alignment. Sometimes the trees get in the way, but it just goes on to try something else.
Finally, in SharpCap, you need to tell it about your telescope mount. Go to "SharpCap settings", select the "Hardware" tab, then select "CPWI" as the Mount Hardware. If you don't see that option, then something is amiss with your ASCOM setup.
You are getting close. This is a hobby that requires persistence!
-Bob
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Ha Ha - Sorta makes me feel better that it was not just a ME issue.
I missed the CPWI Option in Hardware / Mounts so I checked - applied and Saved.
Made a Quick Attempt to Load and got error message -
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Oops photo did not attach to the Post - will try again
I did a google search of the error message and it led me to a Cloudy Nights Thread that has the same issue and "several" fixes Seems different thing occurs and different things fix with this stuff.
Come on Celestron !
And about re starting CPWI without re starting the program :
I tried again tonight and after the first fail I am not give an option in Connection to try again . The only option I am offered is Cancel.
I will get out to the shop in a bit and try opening in different order and if that fails try re installing CPWI and ............
BOB
I have appreciated your help so much. I could never had reached the point I'm at without it. Thought I would report whats taken place since the last post.
Per the findings of others in the link I posted in the last reply, I tried re-installing CPWI and it still gave the error message.
Tried Re installing others in order - still a fail so I deleted everything including the driver updates and tried starting over in the recommended order to no avail. I made a list of possible combinations and started trying them. Attempt 11 worked. Its not the order that worked others that posted in the thread that I referenced but, worked for me.
Sharpcap has recognized CPWI and now gives the Telescope Controls Box in the bottom right corner.
I've had a couple chances between Clouds and Fire Smoke to get out. Getting the features figured out.
Alignment last night was right on. 10 of 10 objects on a list were right on. Didn't need the plate solving feature.
My mount seems to March on some GoTo's. Items found and nicely centered - viewed at 1 second live view - often move up the screen with each 1 second view. Using scope control and bumping up and down, I can get it to stop. Is that Backlash ?
I didn't experience it before CPWI. My hand control backlash settings were 0 - 0 in the Starsense HC.
BUT ... I read in celestrons CPWI instructions :
"NOTE: Gear backlash compensation is ONLY RECOMMENDED FOR VISUAL USE and may be counterproductive when used during astrophotography. When tracking is enabled, the mount will be moving in one or both axes. Pressing a direction button
opposite to the direction of tracking will cause the gear backlash compensation to activate twice; once when you push the
direction button, and again when you release it and tracking resumes."
Since Eaa is so different than astrophotography - is Eaa considered to be like Visual Use ?
Thus ... do you think backlash adjustments are warranted ?
Wind direction coming from Southern Oregon for the next few days and even breathing outside is not recommended.
Thanks Again
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Thanks for the update, I have been thinking of you and wondering how it was going for you.
Yes, you are seeing backlash. Assuming you aren't using the equatorial wedge, the mount is moving all the time in both axis to track the stars. When you move the mount manually, it can take a few seconds for the mount tracking to take up the slack in the gears causing apparent movement of the target while that's going on.
On gotos, the mount control software should be approaching the target in a direction that minimizes the effect of backlash. I think its logic for the altitude (up/down) axis assumes that the mount is front-heavy so that is something for you to check. I have the Evolution mount so I am not sure how much you can adjust the SE mount to move the scope forward. On my mount, when the camera is attached, I move the scope as far forward as possible.
The other thing that I would ask, is are you looking at the moon? If yes, set the tracking rate in CPWI to Lunar which helps in the east-west tracking. The moon will slowly move north/south even so. The reason is that the moon is moving fairly fast against the background of the stars and the mount tracking does not really model its motion precisely.
If you find that backlash compensation helps you in CPWI, there is no reason not to use it with sharpcap. Personally, I don't use it because, as you already know, it is easy enough to manually stop the movement.
One last bit of advice... You have two choices for slew controls, one offered inside sharpcap and one offered by CPWI. I think using the CPWI slew controls will be more reliable for you.
Now that you have things working with sharpcap, you can use sharpcap's list of objects and do the goto inside sharpcap. the plate solving comes into play if there is a need to correct for inaccurate goto and also for re-centering if the target drifts off-center for any reason. Plate solving is much easier than using slew controls for centering the target of interest, especially for dim objects that may not be visible in the live-view mode.
I live in the Kansas City area. We are also seeing the sky obscured by smoke lately.
-Bob
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I will experiment with the CPWI Backlash Settings.
It puzzled me since my Handset Settings were 0 - 0 and never experienced that with an eyepiece or Starsense HC / Eaa.
I tried to wait it out a couple times and it just kept going and going. Marched off the screen and another screen after.
It is approaching from Up and Right .
Not doing the Moon --
Looking at DSO's. I've been most interested lately in position of items. I have only taken a couple of Very short exposures just to have a reference of how close it was to centered. I did take a Nice M33 after manually stopping the march the other night. I usually limit my saves to 10 minutes but let it run for just over 20 and it looked pretty nice. 20 minutes is a long go for a Alt Az Mount.
Scope Control
My Laptop is smaller that I wish it was - and does not have the keypad. The Control + I - J -- K - L feels clumsy.
I found a right rate for the Sharpcap slew.
If I had a full keyboard I would like the CPWI control method that would be available.
Your recommendation to use sharpcaps list of objects surprised me. I didn't know there was one.
I went out to the shop and I don't have anything like it on my setup.
I verified that I have the latest Sharpcap.
The only "Target " reference in my header is Target Name. I read the manual and see where the target option is but its not on my set up. I went thru all the settings in Sharpcap and Cpwi dont see any option that offers anything like it - or indicates Target.
Something is not right somewhere. There is No Screen that looks even close to what I see in the Sharpcap manual. My Mount setting in Sharpcap Settings is set to Cpwi and there is not option for Celestron 6se etc.
Plus ... When I look at the sky map in Cpwi and remove the ID for Stars so that only NGC and Messier Items SHOULD show - it only annotates 1 item. I can click on the little fuzzies and it shows me its HR - NGC - M Number and info but nothing is labeled besides 1 item - Beehive cluster. Zooming in shows more potential items as little fuzzy spots but none with any annotation.
Hmmmm
I can get a photo of what I see if it will help .
3:30 AM Off to bed .
Thanks
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I would not have expected CPWI to be worse than the hand control for the "marching" problem. I have seen something like that occasionally, but corrected it by re-doing the star sense alignment. I assume that I did something like kick the tripod leg. I try to be careful about not fiddling too much with my hands on the scope after doing the alignment (I have the celestron focus motor, so I don't have to ever touch the scope for focusing). Also pay attention to the USB cables. I route the camera cable over the top of the scope, then in front of the pivot for the altitude axis. That way the cable comes off the mount near the center of rotation (minimizes cable drag). I also use the cord wrap feature in CPWI to assure that the scope does not turn more than 180 degrees from the starting location (the point where you enable cord wrap).
In SharpCap, the catalog of DSOs, Stars, Planets is available under this sequence of menus: Tools-> Goto Co-ordinates -> Goto a target from a catalog -> More... To take best advantage of plate solving, you need to use SharpCap's goto capability. If you have the Pro version of SharpCap (highly recommended), after plate solving you can click anywhere on the image to re-center on that point.
As a planetarium program, CPWI is not great. I use SkySafari on my iphone to decide what to point at, then use the goto capability in SharpCap to select the target object by name from the catalog.
There are also PC planetarium programs that you can use. I mostly use Carts de Ciel, but Stellarium is also very popular. These programs can connect to your scope (via ASCOM driver) to show where it is pointed and can also be used to select and slew the scope to a new target. You still use CPWI, but only for the initial alignment (but keep it running to provide the ASCOM interface).
-Bob
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You are Amazing.
When I saw that option I "ASSUMED" that like in the Nexstar HC that "Goto Co-ordinates" was just telling you where you were looking or with input in RA DEC, where you wanted to be. I went right on by it.
I had searched the Sharpcap Manual covering the tools drop down and the manual doesn't even mention that option.
In sequencer ?
Without this thread and your input - I might have used sharpcap for the rest of my life without knowing that the Target Feature was there.
As one gets Older ( 71 soon ) you become more hesitant to wade into links that you don't know what are.
I wish you were near here - I'd take you for a Steak Dinner. (Your KC beef is probably better that ours though )
I cannot wait for the clearer skies "promised" by the weather guy this weekend so I can try it out outdoors with an actual align.
I only had a few minutes to fiddle with it today but clicked on a target ( un-aligned ) and the scope moved to its assumed position.
So Excited !!
You Said:
"As a planetarium program, CPWI is not great. I use SkySafari on my iphone to decide what to point at, then use the goto capability in SharpCap to select the target object by name from the catalog."
That sounds great !
I had dismissed Sky Safari , being only "easily" available to interact for Phone.
With this new Sharpcap function the way you do sounds like a great option for me and my phone.
My Phone isnt bad but is not Top of the Line so I will read and see what version of Sky Safari to try.
I have heard many rave about Sky Safari.
I will experiment with Backlash settings in both. The Clutches are tight on the Scope. It isnt prone to move with light force but would move if pushed hard by accident etc.
I have used the Cordwrap feature in the past and like you, I have found a pretty sweet cord organization layout. I would definitely use Cordwrap if I were sitting indoors with scope outdoors But, I'm always sitting next to the telescope at this point and pretty in touch with were its headed and how to Halt it.
And... you said
"If you have the Pro version of SharpCap (highly recommended), after plate solving you can click anywhere on the image to re-center on that point."
I do have Sharpcap Pro. That feature sounds Amazingly useful.
Learning every day ! Will report .
Thanks Again MIKE
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Bob - So Sorry to have abandoned the thread for a bit . We had one of those sad family issues and things with my whole system went squirley. Heres whats has gone on.
I was so close ... Cpwi was working - Aligning Starsense from Cpwi with a saved user alignment - Sharpcap database was working - I was getting plate solves but had not yet had a solve and sync work but morale was high.
The smoke / haze and increasing moon kept me indoors for a few nights so I checked my Starsense firmware and did updates.
Next night out - I aligned - found M27 - M33 - requested M74 and my mount went up up and past 90 before I could stop it since handset with direction buttons is non functional. No Clearance issue - thank goodness. Corrected and restarted. M27 OK - M33 OK - M31 OK - requested M110 and was told it was outside my Slew Filter Range. ??? It was not.
Requested M110 again thinking maybe I had big fingered a wrong button or ? and noted that the screen says that I requested M4. Yes - M4 is outside my slew limit.
Repeated Requests for M110 and others kept showing M4. M33 - M31 - M27 did not.
Most NGC requests showed NGC 0598. Requesting NGC 0598 brings up NGC 0598. IC requests similar not showing the IC item that I ask for.
Re-loaded firmware - did 0 key start to refresh hand set - re-set defaults each several times with no better result.
Thinking I had a Glitch CFM installation - I re-did again and again . Re set filter limits again and again and eventually that issue seemed resolved but now Starsense needed to be re calibrated. Did the Process and the re-alignment but no improvement. Centered with 9mm EP de-focused.
Offset Numbers changed but alignment did not. RA number stays fairly consistent but Dec number ranges + 350 to + 425. Eventually after using Speed 4 to do final center and changing to Speed 9 - the handset began to freeze and displayed several weird characters.
I dug out the Spare SS handset - did firmware updates and had same issue ( Its a RJ type connection and other is Mini USB ).
I put Starsense in the box and got out the Nexstar + HC and still problems. When doing 2 star I always do first star as first target and re-center and replace it - and same with Star 2. Went ut back and forth several times and still does not find the alignment stars.
Contacted Celestron - sent all my info - got a fast reply. The Celestron 5a / 12v power supply I have used for the last year + on all three telescopes puts out 15.xx volts. Celestron thinks that is the issue. I have 2 Celestron and 1 OTHER 12v power supplies ( 2amp ) that also put out 15.xx volt. I checked my Battery 12v power tank and other battery unit I use remote and verified they have 12.6 and 13.1 volt. Tried them to no avail.
Sent photo of my power supply / multi meter / hooked up with 12v sticker showing and mm displaying 15.xx volts.
Celestron says they are sending me a power supply to try. Nice - Great customer service.
In reading threads, searching for answers, I have found another thread of Evolution users doing firmware update and experiencing the frozen handset and weird characters like mine when changing speed setting between low to 9.
Have had several other instances of Mount heading over 90 with no need to - errant slews - HC freezing in other places. Nothing seems consistent other than ... its not working right.
Wondering if I have multiple issues ( voltage - Firmware - Starsense ) affecting my stuff ?
THUS - have many times thought maybe I had found something that would fix it so I could get back to where I was an make contact here but ...........
Awaiting shipment from Celestron. Will try the new power supply and report back to them and see where that leads.
I sent a link to the other thread at CN to Celestron and ask if there was a known firmware issue but have had no reply about that.
Hope things are going better for you.
Rain this week and winds blowing the the smoke the other way - moon about gone - beautiful but cold sky. I did get out my old buddy - SC8+ with sky commander - its kinda like making coffee with a percolator - LOL but it works. I've never had a camera on it before but I caught a decent Orion Nebula with it.
Thanks again for all your time and efforts of the past to help me.
Again apology for going MIA for so long.
MIKE in OREGON
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A recent Nubie to EAA. Almost Embarrassed to ask this.
I have been using my Celestron 6se with Starsense to align and locate objects. Then using my Player One Uranus C Camera and Sharpcap 4.0 Pro to Live stack via my laptop at the Telescope.
My Starsense is close and I am usually able to find the item in my field of view without using an eyepiece.
I read that Astap with Sharpcap is an Essential.
There is only one other person in my area interested in EAA. We compare notes and exchange information. He is stuck at the same spot that I am.
I have downloaded Astap Platform and Database 18 and Installed them with ASCOM. The Test you can run in Sharpcap says its functioning.
SO what do I do with it now ?
I have Googled - Viewed Youtube videos - Read Cloudy Night Forums - Searched the forum here and I find much information about using it but nothing that shows how to get to the point of using it.
All the threads and videos seem to begin with it already hooked up and working. Big Gap.
I know there is a area for telescope control in Sharpcap.
Something must connect it to the telescope besides the camera cable - Right ?
Do I need another program or device ?
Will I still use Starsense hand control ?
Will I still use Starsense to align ?
So many others have figured it out but its got us baffled. I read raving reviews of how much its improved others experiences.
At age 70 these things just don't fall into place anymore. Afraid to mess up the working routine I have.
Thank You
Mike,
It is very intimidating when you first start out with EAA. I think the piece that you are missing is that you need to also control the telescope mount from your computer. When it is all working you can select the object in sharpcap which then tells the telescope to go there. Sharpcap then starts taking pictures and sending then to ASTAP so that it knows which direction to nudge the telescope for getting the object centered.
For telescope control, you need a USB cable to connect your Celestron Handset to your computer. From Celestron, download the CPWI program (https://www.celestron.com/pages/celestron-pwi-telescope-control-software). With CPWI, you will use your computer to control the scope (Once connected, the handset doesn't do anything other than making the connection). CWPI knows how to use the starsense camera and it is more convenient because it loads the time and location from your computer.,
Also install the ASCOM software (https://ascom-standards.org/Downloads/Index.htm) which provides the driver that sharpcap will be looking for to control the scope. You may already have ASCOM installed if you needed it for the camera.
Also be aware that ASTAP can be sensitive to focus (focus first before using). It is also sensitive to field of view so be sure that you tell sharpcap what the focal length of your scope is.
-Bob
Thank you Bob.
It does seem that so many instructions are written for people who already know what to do.
Celestrons Starsense manual has so much missing info about some of its features. It will mention that its a feature but not what it does or how to use it.
Your message hit exactly where I was confused. I Made some progress tonight.
I downloaded CPWI and Installed.
I had a Mini USB to USB cable and I hooked it up per the instructions.
If I turn on the telescope first the controller finds the Ss Camera and GPS and Wants to Align with the handset. It looks just like normal.
Starting the software first then the telescope leaves the handset at Verifying Packages . Then when I start CPWI it makes 2 attempts to connect - and gives an error message that the connection was not made and instructs to check my connections etc.
Now the handset has changed the message BOOT LOADER SERIAL CFM REQUEST
I triple checked the connections against the diagram. They are correct.
I have been unable to find threads or google info with that error message other than one about a problem updating a different Handset.
3am here - off to bed - will start fresh in the late morning.
Again, thanks for helping me know what direction I needed to look to.
Mike,
Here is the order that I use....
1) power up the mount with the handset connected.
2) Connect the handset to the computer with the USB cable.
3) Start CPWI.
4) In CPWI, connect using the "Hand Controller" option - my guess is that you are missing this key point.
5) When CWPI makes the connection, the hand controller will say: "Boot Loader Serial Pass Through"
In CPWI, there is a connection option for "Mount USB", but that is used only for mounts that have a USB port allowing computer connection without using the hand controller.
-Bob
Hello Mike,
Hopefully Bob can guide you to get the stuff working. I will read the posts and hopefully you make soon progress.
Cheers, Han
Good Morning ( Here ) - Clear skys abound.
Very Puzzling
Just to confirm - I have been using the Hand Controller option.
While I have tried "other " orders of connection that has been my path.
Plug in Cord from Mini PC in bottom of HC to USB port on Window 10 computer.
Start CPWI - then click Start option in bottom right corner of the start up square. Click on connection in Upper Left of the main CPWI screen - Click on Hand Controller - 6 options drop down and the icons spin - Changes to 3 icons - returns to no Icons - then Auto tries again - 6 spinning Icons - 3 Spinning Icons and message box in center of screen appears and tells....
"Unable to communicate with any Celestron Device."
also tells to check to make sure cables are connected etc
and in the last line says "Note Only Nexstar + and StarSense Hand Controllers are Supported. "
4-5 . The Press Align to ... Message that was on the HC gets replaced with " Boot Loader Serial CFM Request" - NOT "Boot Loader Serial Pass Through"
Thinking that maybe it was requesting Celestron Firmware Manager update ( IE CFM Request ) - I went thru that process and it verified that my HC was up to date. No Changes were made.
My HC version is 1.22.21333 that still shows on Celestron site to be latest.
Next thought was that maybe I had a bad cable ? BUT .. The CFM process requires 2 Mini USB to USB cables to connect. Since it completed successfully in verifies that both my cables are OK.
I do note that when connected ONLY from the Mount that the Ss process is normal. IF ONLY the cable from computer to bottom of the HC is connected that the HC shows Verifying Packages 29 . So it appears to be connecting from both ends.
Very Puzzling.
Thanks Again
MIKE in OREGON
It is a puzzle. I honestly can't remember all of the things I did to get everything working. However, you might find this thread on cloudy nights to be helpful: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/839597-just-installed-cpwi-does-not-see-usb-connection-to-nexstar-hc/
I would add that you don't want to be connecting the starsense camera to the PC. That interface is only used to update firmware.
Last edit: Bob Gaul 2022-09-04
I would add that you don't want to be connecting the starsense camera to the PC. That interface is only used to update firmware.
True - its only attached to the 6se mount port when in system.
It was only connected in the loop for the CFM.
USB to HC - HC to Mount - Mount to Starsense - Starsense to PC.
Will read that thread in a bit - working on honey do's for another hour or so.
Thanks Again
Over the river and thru the woods .....
Whoo Hoo
What an Adventure - LOL I would never have made it without you.
That Driver tip seemed so right. I tried the main one in the CN thread but continued to fail. Kept trying other orders of connection etc. Continued to Fail.
Downloaded the Older Prolific Driver from that thread and replaced the previous driver and Continued to Fail. Always the same messages. Hand Set still wanting Serial CFM Update .
Changed Ports - still a fail. Made at least 20 attempts and started trying different order of connection attempts etc.
After a 2AM Fail - I closed CPWI and went outside for a bit to sit in the dark and think about what else to try.
When I came in , I forgot that the Mount and Hand control was still on and still connected.
I restarted CPWI to look for the version info to be sure I had downloaded the latest. I clicked Connection / Hand Controller as usual and it brought up Its Center Starsense Screen. ???
Seemed a shame to shut it down but it was indoors and would do no good to let it run. So I shut down and tried again. FAIL
Thinking maybe it just needed additional time to percolate , I let it sit for 15 - 20 minutes as before - FAIL.
After more experimentation I eventually learned that I need to connect the mount to the handset and the handset to the computer. - then attempt to load CPWI and HAVE IT FAIL. Then, leave it hooked up to the mount - close CPWI - restart CPWI and connect ..... and it works.
**It has to fail and re initialize in order to connect. **
Makes no sense but it works. I confirmed it multiple times.
So....... I have browsed the left border features - and they work.
Now Twas 3:30 AM and cloudy so ... Off to bed.
I Cant THANK YOU enough for your help.
IF you still have time and patience with me, any additional info would be appreciated as Tonight I hope to figure out the Alignment options.
I usually use USER AUTO ALIGN with my hand control and I start it from a North East - Level Position to shoot between a Couple trees for the first image and then move to South and then South West for the other 2 Starsense images , but I see no option to get to my saved User Auto Align.
It requests to Point North to Start but so does the Starsense for my Hand Set Alignment and It doesn't seem to matter.
I do see the dome map option that allows you to set positions by click for the mount to move to for its starsense images.
SO... assuming I get it to aligned with CPWI .... what does CPWI do with Sharpcap now ?
I have been thru the Sharpcap Menus and in settings have set the ASTAP file location. I find no reference to CPWI in Sharpcap. Do they interact any more once aligned ?
In Sharpcap I have done the Check and Sharpcap confirms that ASTAP is connected. I have clicked on the Plate solve option in tools and it takes an image ( although just of the inside of the camera cap ) and fails of course because there no stars in the image. It does look like its ready.
So Happy to have made some progress !!
MIKE
Mike,
Sorry. I forgot about that "always fails the first time" problem. I don't think you need to actually restart CPWI, just select connect using the "Hand Controller" a second time. I am actually using a Beta version of CPWI (2.3.4 beta 5) that seems to have that fixed. To find out about beta versions, you can join https://teamcelestron.com/ in that forum you can complain directly to Celestron software developers and it is also a good place to get support from other members. You can also find the 2.3.4 beta versions here: https://software.celestron.com/installers/CPWI/CPWI_2.4.3/. I am staying at Beta 5 for now because Beta 6 seemed to have more than the usual number of complaints. I see today that there is a Beta 7 version, but so far there is no discussion of that in Team Celestron, so I would stay away from that one also.
About StarSense. When you use CPWI, it doesn't pick up any information that you previously saved in the hand control. However, I don't think you need to re-calibrate the camera, because that info is saved in the camera itself. CPWI has a "custom points" menu item to set your alignment points. I don't actually use that my self because my observing location has pretty good views in all directions - I use auto four points alignment. Sometimes the trees get in the way, but it just goes on to try something else.
Finally, in SharpCap, you need to tell it about your telescope mount. Go to "SharpCap settings", select the "Hardware" tab, then select "CPWI" as the Mount Hardware. If you don't see that option, then something is amiss with your ASCOM setup.
You are getting close. This is a hobby that requires persistence!
-Bob
Ha Ha - Sorta makes me feel better that it was not just a ME issue.
I missed the CPWI Option in Hardware / Mounts so I checked - applied and Saved.
Made a Quick Attempt to Load and got error message -
Oops photo did not attach to the Post - will try again
I did a google search of the error message and it led me to a Cloudy Nights Thread that has the same issue and "several" fixes Seems different thing occurs and different things fix with this stuff.
Come on Celestron !
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/755732-trying-to-install-ascomcpwitelescope-in-stellarium-needs-help-please/
And about re starting CPWI without re starting the program :
I tried again tonight and after the first fail I am not give an option in Connection to try again . The only option I am offered is Cancel.
I will get out to the shop in a bit and try opening in different order and if that fails try re installing CPWI and ............
Thanks Again -
BOB
I have appreciated your help so much. I could never had reached the point I'm at without it. Thought I would report whats taken place since the last post.
Per the findings of others in the link I posted in the last reply, I tried re-installing CPWI and it still gave the error message.
Tried Re installing others in order - still a fail so I deleted everything including the driver updates and tried starting over in the recommended order to no avail. I made a list of possible combinations and started trying them. Attempt 11 worked. Its not the order that worked others that posted in the thread that I referenced but, worked for me.
Sharpcap has recognized CPWI and now gives the Telescope Controls Box in the bottom right corner.
I've had a couple chances between Clouds and Fire Smoke to get out. Getting the features figured out.
Alignment last night was right on. 10 of 10 objects on a list were right on. Didn't need the plate solving feature.
My mount seems to March on some GoTo's. Items found and nicely centered - viewed at 1 second live view - often move up the screen with each 1 second view. Using scope control and bumping up and down, I can get it to stop. Is that Backlash ?
I didn't experience it before CPWI. My hand control backlash settings were 0 - 0 in the Starsense HC.
BUT ... I read in celestrons CPWI instructions :
"NOTE: Gear backlash compensation is ONLY RECOMMENDED FOR VISUAL USE and may be counterproductive when used during astrophotography. When tracking is enabled, the mount will be moving in one or both axes. Pressing a direction button
opposite to the direction of tracking will cause the gear backlash compensation to activate twice; once when you push the
direction button, and again when you release it and tracking resumes."
Since Eaa is so different than astrophotography - is Eaa considered to be like Visual Use ?
Thus ... do you think backlash adjustments are warranted ?
Wind direction coming from Southern Oregon for the next few days and even breathing outside is not recommended.
Thanks Again
Mike,
Thanks for the update, I have been thinking of you and wondering how it was going for you.
Yes, you are seeing backlash. Assuming you aren't using the equatorial wedge, the mount is moving all the time in both axis to track the stars. When you move the mount manually, it can take a few seconds for the mount tracking to take up the slack in the gears causing apparent movement of the target while that's going on.
On gotos, the mount control software should be approaching the target in a direction that minimizes the effect of backlash. I think its logic for the altitude (up/down) axis assumes that the mount is front-heavy so that is something for you to check. I have the Evolution mount so I am not sure how much you can adjust the SE mount to move the scope forward. On my mount, when the camera is attached, I move the scope as far forward as possible.
The other thing that I would ask, is are you looking at the moon? If yes, set the tracking rate in CPWI to Lunar which helps in the east-west tracking. The moon will slowly move north/south even so. The reason is that the moon is moving fairly fast against the background of the stars and the mount tracking does not really model its motion precisely.
If you find that backlash compensation helps you in CPWI, there is no reason not to use it with sharpcap. Personally, I don't use it because, as you already know, it is easy enough to manually stop the movement.
One last bit of advice... You have two choices for slew controls, one offered inside sharpcap and one offered by CPWI. I think using the CPWI slew controls will be more reliable for you.
Now that you have things working with sharpcap, you can use sharpcap's list of objects and do the goto inside sharpcap. the plate solving comes into play if there is a need to correct for inaccurate goto and also for re-centering if the target drifts off-center for any reason. Plate solving is much easier than using slew controls for centering the target of interest, especially for dim objects that may not be visible in the live-view mode.
I live in the Kansas City area. We are also seeing the sky obscured by smoke lately.
-Bob
I will experiment with the CPWI Backlash Settings.
It puzzled me since my Handset Settings were 0 - 0 and never experienced that with an eyepiece or Starsense HC / Eaa.
I tried to wait it out a couple times and it just kept going and going. Marched off the screen and another screen after.
It is approaching from Up and Right .
Not doing the Moon --
Looking at DSO's. I've been most interested lately in position of items. I have only taken a couple of Very short exposures just to have a reference of how close it was to centered. I did take a Nice M33 after manually stopping the march the other night. I usually limit my saves to 10 minutes but let it run for just over 20 and it looked pretty nice. 20 minutes is a long go for a Alt Az Mount.
Scope Control
My Laptop is smaller that I wish it was - and does not have the keypad. The Control + I - J -- K - L feels clumsy.
I found a right rate for the Sharpcap slew.
If I had a full keyboard I would like the CPWI control method that would be available.
Your recommendation to use sharpcaps list of objects surprised me. I didn't know there was one.
I went out to the shop and I don't have anything like it on my setup.
I verified that I have the latest Sharpcap.
The only "Target " reference in my header is Target Name. I read the manual and see where the target option is but its not on my set up. I went thru all the settings in Sharpcap and Cpwi dont see any option that offers anything like it - or indicates Target.
Something is not right somewhere. There is No Screen that looks even close to what I see in the Sharpcap manual. My Mount setting in Sharpcap Settings is set to Cpwi and there is not option for Celestron 6se etc.
Plus ... When I look at the sky map in Cpwi and remove the ID for Stars so that only NGC and Messier Items SHOULD show - it only annotates 1 item. I can click on the little fuzzies and it shows me its HR - NGC - M Number and info but nothing is labeled besides 1 item - Beehive cluster. Zooming in shows more potential items as little fuzzy spots but none with any annotation.
Hmmmm
I can get a photo of what I see if it will help .
3:30 AM Off to bed .
Thanks
Mike,
I would not have expected CPWI to be worse than the hand control for the "marching" problem. I have seen something like that occasionally, but corrected it by re-doing the star sense alignment. I assume that I did something like kick the tripod leg. I try to be careful about not fiddling too much with my hands on the scope after doing the alignment (I have the celestron focus motor, so I don't have to ever touch the scope for focusing). Also pay attention to the USB cables. I route the camera cable over the top of the scope, then in front of the pivot for the altitude axis. That way the cable comes off the mount near the center of rotation (minimizes cable drag). I also use the cord wrap feature in CPWI to assure that the scope does not turn more than 180 degrees from the starting location (the point where you enable cord wrap).
In SharpCap, the catalog of DSOs, Stars, Planets is available under this sequence of menus: Tools-> Goto Co-ordinates -> Goto a target from a catalog -> More... To take best advantage of plate solving, you need to use SharpCap's goto capability. If you have the Pro version of SharpCap (highly recommended), after plate solving you can click anywhere on the image to re-center on that point.
As a planetarium program, CPWI is not great. I use SkySafari on my iphone to decide what to point at, then use the goto capability in SharpCap to select the target object by name from the catalog.
There are also PC planetarium programs that you can use. I mostly use Carts de Ciel, but Stellarium is also very popular. These programs can connect to your scope (via ASCOM driver) to show where it is pointed and can also be used to select and slew the scope to a new target. You still use CPWI, but only for the initial alignment (but keep it running to provide the ASCOM interface).
-Bob
You are Amazing.
When I saw that option I "ASSUMED" that like in the Nexstar HC that "Goto Co-ordinates" was just telling you where you were looking or with input in RA DEC, where you wanted to be. I went right on by it.
I had searched the Sharpcap Manual covering the tools drop down and the manual doesn't even mention that option.
In sequencer ?
Without this thread and your input - I might have used sharpcap for the rest of my life without knowing that the Target Feature was there.
As one gets Older ( 71 soon ) you become more hesitant to wade into links that you don't know what are.
I wish you were near here - I'd take you for a Steak Dinner. (Your KC beef is probably better that ours though )
I cannot wait for the clearer skies "promised" by the weather guy this weekend so I can try it out outdoors with an actual align.
I only had a few minutes to fiddle with it today but clicked on a target ( un-aligned ) and the scope moved to its assumed position.
So Excited !!
You Said:
"As a planetarium program, CPWI is not great. I use SkySafari on my iphone to decide what to point at, then use the goto capability in SharpCap to select the target object by name from the catalog."
That sounds great !
I had dismissed Sky Safari , being only "easily" available to interact for Phone.
With this new Sharpcap function the way you do sounds like a great option for me and my phone.
My Phone isnt bad but is not Top of the Line so I will read and see what version of Sky Safari to try.
I have heard many rave about Sky Safari.
I will experiment with Backlash settings in both. The Clutches are tight on the Scope. It isnt prone to move with light force but would move if pushed hard by accident etc.
I have used the Cordwrap feature in the past and like you, I have found a pretty sweet cord organization layout. I would definitely use Cordwrap if I were sitting indoors with scope outdoors But, I'm always sitting next to the telescope at this point and pretty in touch with were its headed and how to Halt it.
And... you said
"If you have the Pro version of SharpCap (highly recommended), after plate solving you can click anywhere on the image to re-center on that point."
I do have Sharpcap Pro. That feature sounds Amazingly useful.
Learning every day ! Will report .
Thanks Again MIKE
Bob - So Sorry to have abandoned the thread for a bit . We had one of those sad family issues and things with my whole system went squirley. Heres whats has gone on.
I was so close ... Cpwi was working - Aligning Starsense from Cpwi with a saved user alignment - Sharpcap database was working - I was getting plate solves but had not yet had a solve and sync work but morale was high.
The smoke / haze and increasing moon kept me indoors for a few nights so I checked my Starsense firmware and did updates.
Next night out - I aligned - found M27 - M33 - requested M74 and my mount went up up and past 90 before I could stop it since handset with direction buttons is non functional. No Clearance issue - thank goodness. Corrected and restarted. M27 OK - M33 OK - M31 OK - requested M110 and was told it was outside my Slew Filter Range. ??? It was not.
Requested M110 again thinking maybe I had big fingered a wrong button or ? and noted that the screen says that I requested M4. Yes - M4 is outside my slew limit.
Repeated Requests for M110 and others kept showing M4. M33 - M31 - M27 did not.
Most NGC requests showed NGC 0598. Requesting NGC 0598 brings up NGC 0598. IC requests similar not showing the IC item that I ask for.
Re-loaded firmware - did 0 key start to refresh hand set - re-set defaults each several times with no better result.
Thinking I had a Glitch CFM installation - I re-did again and again . Re set filter limits again and again and eventually that issue seemed resolved but now Starsense needed to be re calibrated. Did the Process and the re-alignment but no improvement. Centered with 9mm EP de-focused.
Offset Numbers changed but alignment did not. RA number stays fairly consistent but Dec number ranges + 350 to + 425. Eventually after using Speed 4 to do final center and changing to Speed 9 - the handset began to freeze and displayed several weird characters.
I dug out the Spare SS handset - did firmware updates and had same issue ( Its a RJ type connection and other is Mini USB ).
I put Starsense in the box and got out the Nexstar + HC and still problems. When doing 2 star I always do first star as first target and re-center and replace it - and same with Star 2. Went ut back and forth several times and still does not find the alignment stars.
Contacted Celestron - sent all my info - got a fast reply. The Celestron 5a / 12v power supply I have used for the last year + on all three telescopes puts out 15.xx volts. Celestron thinks that is the issue. I have 2 Celestron and 1 OTHER 12v power supplies ( 2amp ) that also put out 15.xx volt. I checked my Battery 12v power tank and other battery unit I use remote and verified they have 12.6 and 13.1 volt. Tried them to no avail.
Sent photo of my power supply / multi meter / hooked up with 12v sticker showing and mm displaying 15.xx volts.
Celestron says they are sending me a power supply to try. Nice - Great customer service.
In reading threads, searching for answers, I have found another thread of Evolution users doing firmware update and experiencing the frozen handset and weird characters like mine when changing speed setting between low to 9.
Have had several other instances of Mount heading over 90 with no need to - errant slews - HC freezing in other places. Nothing seems consistent other than ... its not working right.
Wondering if I have multiple issues ( voltage - Firmware - Starsense ) affecting my stuff ?
THUS - have many times thought maybe I had found something that would fix it so I could get back to where I was an make contact here but ...........
Awaiting shipment from Celestron. Will try the new power supply and report back to them and see where that leads.
I sent a link to the other thread at CN to Celestron and ask if there was a known firmware issue but have had no reply about that.
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/846118-evolution-mount-w-starsense-hc-odd-characters-other-probs-after-update/?p=12222493
Hope things are going better for you.
Rain this week and winds blowing the the smoke the other way - moon about gone - beautiful but cold sky. I did get out my old buddy - SC8+ with sky commander - its kinda like making coffee with a percolator - LOL but it works. I've never had a camera on it before but I caught a decent Orion Nebula with it.
Thanks again for all your time and efforts of the past to help me.
Again apology for going MIA for so long.
MIKE in OREGON