#1125 New Player Killer System
Hello,
as player killing takes over (it became a fun sport for some people), I suggest harder rules for dealing with Player Killers.
Currently Player Killers get marked with a skull and have several disadvantages, such as higher prices when buying items from an NPC for example. The problem is, that these disadvantages can easily be cheated: The players just log in their second char and buy the items for normal price. This results in nearly no disadvantages for Player Killers. They can do what they want and keep killing others just for fun.
Stendhal is said to be a nice and friendly community. I wonder why nothing is done against Player Killers and why this behaviour is accepted... Roundabout every 10th player walking along the street in front of the Semos Inn is a player killer. That's sad.
I thought about following idea:
In every city (Semos, Ados, Kirdneh, Kalavan) and on different other places (Athor, etc) should be several guard NPCs. They guard the city gates and patrol around in the city. If they see a Player Killer with a skull, they run to him and make him stop. Then they tell the player the reason and that he has to choose: 1. Pay money for not being arrested (the amount depends on how many people the player killer has killed. Every kill should cost 10k or 20k. Then the player is allowed to stay in the city for 24 hours) 2. Give up and being arrested. This also happens, if the player cannot afford to pay the money. (The player is send to the jail of the city, or back to Semos Jail, and has to stay one hour per kill.) 3. The Player Killer can choose to fight the guards. Maybe not the best choice, because they are very strong. Every guard in the city will imediately attack the Player Killer if he gets near. If the player stays out of the city for 24 hours, the guards are reset to asking-mode if the player wants to pay, go to jail or fight.
Extendet idea: A Player Killer with bad conscience can choose to stay arrested to pay the crime. Then he is logged in in Jail for three days and cannot leave it, but the skull is removed after that and he doesn't have to wait two weeks to remove the it.
I hope that this system will make players think about if they really want to kill another player. Another advantage is that Player Killers are automatically punished and the support isn't bothered with judgement. There is no reason to get revenge then, because the guards will punish the Player Killer. No more self-justice and revenge against Player Killers. And hopefully a more friendly community.
- Storyteller
Discussion
Anonymous
Not a bad idea but there can be situations where a player killed someone becouse he wanted to defend itself from an attack or unwanted killing during training. I think it is nice to try to find a way to highly dis-courage player killing but in the same time there are players who could be disadvantaged by this feature without being a real player-killer.
nobun: I just thought again about that... What if the killed player has to go to one of the guards and tell him that he was killed by player XY? Then the guard checks the database if this is really true and if so, then the Player Killer is wanted by all the guards as long as he has the skull. So if you had a training accident then nothing happens (but of course you get your skull and the disadvantages, like high prices etc!) Well, when you are attacked and fight back, then you are responsible, if the other player dies and you are marked as a player killer. You always have the chance to run or scroll away or to log out. Most player killings happen while the victim is afk, I think...
I think it is a very nice idea that could avoid problems. I think also that "scalar disadvantages" could be a nice idea to add together with your idea. Trying to explain what I mean with "scalar disadvantages".... I mean (like you said in another point) to count how many kills a player did and after a certain amount (for example 7 kills) a "disadvantage curve" will start increasing exponentially the period of time of the skull (and disadvantage) and increasing disadvantages (example item with even more price than normal price-up when you have skull, forbid "kiler player" to attack as first attacker during the skull-time (even against higher-level players - "your soul need to be purified... you feel you cannot attack any one").
I think also to improve your idea with another chance. Not only allow to allert guards by player killed, but also to other players with a different system.
For example.... guard will block a player also if at least 11 different players reported him as a killer and skull currently active. In this second case there is however a risk to allow an improperly "flame-wars" against "enemy players "... I don't know if 11 different players as minimum could be enough to avoid this risk
The exponential disadvantages are a nice idea, I think. Also that player killers should be forbidden to attack first could help against repeatedly killing. But I think only the player who was killed should be allowed to report the killer, otherwise it would end in "motivating other people to report an enemy player", even annoying people with that who haven't to deal with that all. Or one person would create many new accounts just to be able to report the player killer.
Yep this why I wasn't so sure about my last idea.
however exponential disadvantage could include also automaticly (and exponential) jailing after #n kills (for example after 7 kills in total first jail: 10 minutes) - I think that the extremely long path to quit the jail could discourage even more players.
I have also some other (crazy) ideas about how to discourage even more killing players (for example two types of ring - that will not showed in stendhal site player description - with strange powers:
ring 1) Hidden ring of thieving: to use in cooperation with a scroll. If you received at least 100 damage inflicted from attacker (or a different value to decide) and you didn't replied back with any hit, if you use scroll and have ring you will drain x/2 atk xp and y/2 def xp from attacker where x = xp you need to lvup atk and y = xp you need to lvup def and the attacker will lose that value + k/2, z/2 where k/2 is the xp amount range of current xp level for attack and z for defence (where amount range = (xp start value of [current_lev+1]) - (xp start value of current lev)
but this could be hard to implement so ring 2 idea
ring: 2) Hidden ring of reverseDeath: when you will receive a fatal hit from a player, you will not die but you will healed completely instead. The attacker will die instead of you and you will obtain all benefits you would have if you killed the player (chance to access corpse + xp earned) without having the disadvantage of the skull nor your "kill" will be counted for "exponential disadvantages of killing".ù
4 condition in order to activate this effect:
1) you must be killed by a player and not by a monster
2) you must NOT counter-attack him (no one attack against him in the last 30minutes before death)
3) you must possess ring (hidden to stendhal page)
4) you must be marked as away OR you must be idle (I mean no-walking) for at least 2 minutes
ring could be forged by Ados Blacksmith for 6 gold bar, 6 iron bar, 20 wood, 5000 money and must re-forged after being used 2 times (effect of reverse-death applied two times: ring will be destroyed and not equipped again). Optionally could be enforced after being used 1 time (for 2 gold bar, 2 iron bar, 8 wood, 1000 money ) from semos blacksmith in order to let it to be used other 2 times instead of another time only (more convenient)
If you think could be a nice idea, let me know.... I will add as a feature request
Problem with ring 2: This could be abused for free healing (create a new char and let him attack your main char, so he gets full healing).
Problem with ring 1: It won't work if you are afk.
There must not be advantages for the victim, but only disadvantages for the attacker, to make it non-abusable, I think.
The automatic and exponential jailing sounds interesting. On the first kill, the killer is jailed 10 minutes, then on the next kill 20 minutes, on the third kill 30 minutes and so on. I think this really could discourage players from killing others. When the kill happened while training, well, that may people cause to be more careful the next time, as it always taken longer until you can play again.
nice idea with the townguards i think.
For the other pKtopics maybe just add a feature to help people in specific traininggroups.
If a player is on his own, not in a safe place and afk, he will get killed.
Thats life - thats stendhal somehow (even if not honest!!).
If you are on a training group (usual only one of them is looking everything is fine) and a playerkiller comes to kill you, you will see your friend die - even if promised to help. And thats not so cool. Like i've personally figured out.
So my suggestion. Give me a feature to log my trainingspartner off remotely.
Or better make it possible use home scroll on him/her - so he will be save but a little loss to the trainingsgroup too, because he/she/it has to walk/scroll there again.
Also cool idea with reverse ring of hidden death kill thing.
Storyteller +1
hcsok: What about special scrolls which work like home scrolls (but are way more expensive)? You have to carry at least one of them in your bag and have to be in a group. Then you have to switch the "safety scroll" on, by toggle a button in the group menu. Now everybody in the group can click on the "safety scroll" button behind your name in the group menu and you are scrolled back to Semos City (or another place) then.
hcsok: I think you should open a new feature request for your idea, so it won't be forgotten and has an entry on its own ;)
I like the idea of arresting (or requesting a fee) townguards. It reminds me of some other roleplay games (like the Gothic trilogy).
Some additional thoughts:
I think player killing (as well as thievery) is a part of the roleplay. So, if it is not really wanted by other players (or by the developers), it should be venged or made unattractive within the role play (by game design).
In my opinion it is not a good idea seeking for a "referee" in real live (i. e. /support) for such things, unless they are forbidden by game rules.
I would like to pick up this discussion again, although I still don't have a complete operable idea.
The marking of playerkillers had been a really good idea in the first place. But now we have got the problem, that it is kind of a trophy for many players, and many other players just want to train pvp and don't care about the skull at all. So it seems as it has become an unimportant yet ugly part of many players' outfit.
Now (I think) we need a part of our game design that makes player killing REALLY uncomfortable for the skullbearer. I think that would be a way to make training players more cautious and fun-playerkillers think twice about their gameplay.
I like the idea of town guards. Ados already has got one.
Idea 1: The entrance to Ados might be a portal that noone with a skull could pass, unless he had a talk to Julius and payed a penalty or chose to go to jail for some time.
Idea 2: The town guards might attack playerkillers with an extremely high attack until their HP are nearly 0 (same effekt as eating excessively). The only way to pass is talking to the guard and pay a penalty or go to jail.
Problems: Not all Cities are surrounded by a fence or wall yet to control the routes of intruding playerkillers. City entrances aren't portals yet. NPCs would need more implementation.
Other idea: Make players with skulls unable to attack other players until the skull is removed.
Time to raise this topic again after quite a long time. ;) I think I have got a good inspiration for a viable PvP system from another game I have played recently.
Basically PvP is only opt-in within the game. By default players cannot hurt each other. But there is the possibility to challenge another player for a fight with him. But the important thing is: The challenged player has to accept the challenge within a certain time before both players can fight a duel and hurt each other.
The duel ends when one of the players has died. If both players want to fight again, they have to agree again before.
I think this system is adaptable to Stendhal. We would need the following things in the game for that:
More details here: https://stendhalgame.org/wiki/Ideas_for_Stendhal/PvP_Challenges